Mailinglist privacy: MY NAME ALL OVER GOOGLE!

Bart Silverstrim bsilver at chrononomicon.com
Sat May 7 19:52:42 PDT 2005


On May 7, 2005, at 6:35 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote:

> Joshua Tinnin writes:
>
>> Then so is every single tech help list with public archives.
>
> Yes.  The fact that certain infringing actions may take place with 
> great
> frequency does not make them any less infringing.

Fine.  Take them each to court.  See how long it lasts.

Really, if this bugs you this much, take it to court.  Take it to a 
lawyer.  See if they explain to you what fair use is.  See if implied 
consent is ever given, or the fact that these archives were no surprise 
if you actually followed directions.  See if ignorance is a true 
defense for lacking responsibility.

See if anyone would want to even take such a case when there's no 
monetary gain from it...especially since the spirit of copyright law is 
to protect your rights to make profit from your work (and/or prevent 
others from doing so at your expense).  How much money have you lost 
due to quoting and archiving?  Sure, people are laughing at you for 
holding doggedly to your viewpoint while ignoring things like fair use 
doctrine and the fact that you're not losing money and no one is making 
money off your posts, but hey, if you want to try it, go right on 
ahead.

>> Some of them have been in existence before the web. I can't figure out
>> why you keep harping on an issue like this that is not at all unique 
>> to
>> FreeBSD, nor even open source.
>
> It's a matter of conscience and ethics.

What, that you didn't read the material in the FAQ before joining a 
group and now you're peeved that people can reference what you've 
asserted in the past to drudge up later?

There are SO MANY things in the US that go against good conscience and 
ethics.  Why don't you fight that instead of the possibility that 
someone could see your words in an archive and think that you look 
silly because of what you've said?  I would question the view from your 
moral high ground when you suggest using something like the DMCA to 
stop people from archiving someone's questions regarding kernel modules 
or getting sound to work.

If you're that worked up about it, maybe you should
A) read the FAQ and google for answers more often,
B) accept that archiving is a tool to help for future reference of 
questions
C) accept that archiving is the price you pay when you're imposing on 
other people to answer questions for you
D) unsubscribe and go away from the list if you're that irked.  Then 
you don't need to worry about this issue.  Stop emailing, stop posting 
on it.

You've continually ignored every point I brought up...fair use, implied 
consent, actually following the informal procedure of reading the 
handbook/FAQ/google results before subscribing, even the precedent set 
by just about every tech list I know of wherein posts are archived, I 
didn't even see (yet?) anyone comment on the .edu site I cited with a 
disclaimer saying that their archives fell within fair use.  You 
instead harp on your viewpoint as being right while dismissing anything 
else as "not tested in court".

I've addressed several of your points with counterpoints.  I recall 
little or none back other than dismissal.  I'll assume this means 
you're simply trolling.  Unless you're going to actually take this to a 
lawyer for a professional opinion or take a group to court, I suggest 
you...ahem...put up or shut up.

>> Why don't you head over to some other tech lists for a while
>> and complain about this?
>
> I worry mainly about lists to which I subscribe.

Can someone unsubscribe Anthony so he need not worry about this list 
anymore?  He joined voluntarily, it's maintained by volunteers, and 
apparently he's not happy with the service, so let him be free to go 
somewhere else for help?

>> Yes, but you're not a lawyer, yet you persist in talking about these
>> matters as if you had some authority.
>
> You're not a lawyer, either, as far as I know.

So, if you're both saying you require a lawyer to sort the issue out, 
you're wasting time in continuing the discussion.  You're saying you're 
not qualified to comment on it, no?

>> I hate to bring up the old cliche ... but, seriously, Anthony, most of
>> what you do here is spread:
>>
>> Fear
>> Uncertainty
>> Doubt
>
> Much of the prudence that lawful behavior demands is based on these.

That would explain some things.



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