BigApache for Windows - Why doesn't BSD have an installer package like this ???

DK asdzxc111 at
Wed Jul 28 09:27:44 PDT 2004

--- Giorgos Keramidas <keramida at> wrote:
> Some times, it's better to install smaller packages that work together
> in a well-known way, than huge mega-monsters that break in unexpected
> ways later on.
Firstly, thnx Giorgos for responding!

All I want from BSD to is a Rock Solid Web Server with as default:
- FreeBSD+Minimilist GUI(wmaker will do)
- File Manager(got xfe working)
- Editor(got nedit installed)
- Apache+Mod_SSL+MySQL+PHP+Mod_Perl
- Firewall (is one installed as default ??)
- Web Browser(Mozilla installed but its slow - will try firefox later)
Thats all, nothing else!

I would have thought that with so many people running BSD Web Servers, that there would be a
similar default install out-of-the-box out there...

> Anyway, just to check that I'm not writing junk, I've just installed
> apache with mod_ssl, ipv6 and mode_perl support.
> I used the www/apache13-modssl+ipv6 port to install Apache, then
> www/mod_perl to install mod_perl version 1.x (which could be
> substituted in a breeze with www/mod_perl2 to use the newer
> version) tweaked Apache's config file a bit and voila... my web server
> was up and running in less than 5 minutes.

I guess my problem is I know where all the files go on my Windows box, but I am not sure where the
files go on the BSD box when an install goes wrong. If the pkg_delete fails, how do I manually
remove the files for a failed [Apache+Mod_SSL+MySQL+PHP+Mod_Perl] installation ??

> Did you actually *try* to install Apache using the ports?

Yes, apache by itself is easy, its installing the bunch - Apache+Mod_SSL+MySQL+PHP+Mod_Perl

> You still didn't answer my question in an earlier post about the problems you seem
> to be having:
>      Why isn't it easy for you to install all these things on FreeBSD?
>      Which part of the installation troubles you?  A recent addition to
>      the Handbook was a section on Apache.  Perhaps, by letting us know
>      what gives you trouble we can improve the documentation to help you
>      and anyone else that tries to install an Apache web server from
>      now on.

sorry about, thought I did - here goes:

- Installing Packages is nice & easy & straight forward from the docs(should be more of these!)
- Installing ports/packages via ftp/net - Forget it!!
I have barely got BSD running, the last thing I want is connecting a BSD box to my broadband
connection ?? Does BSD have a default firewall ?? Don't know, having trouble installing stuff let
alone configuring a firewall via scripts/files

Currently as we speak, I am getting about a hit every 10 seconds from worms... thankfully being
caught by my firewall on my Windows 2000 box.

>> Why isn't it easy for you to install all these things on FreeBSD?

Specifically, its the ./configure business of the different installations & the pedantic order
which to install the different Apache modules etc..

Then its going step by step with the install guides & when I try to install MySQL, I type #
groupadd mysql & I get "command not found" ... ??? no idea, I am following the install guides...
now if I am doing the same as everyone else with a fresh install of BSD, why is it no one else
gets groupadd mysql "command not found" ??

I just don't see the point of compiling each program from source. - But if I try to install all of
them from the packages, then it breaks down. - I am used to from Windows, installing from
packages, then once everything is installed & running, I go back & tweak the apps to my likeing

BSD wants me to do the tweaks in configuration files prior to compiling from source BEFORE I have
had a chance to fiddle with the app to SEE what needs to be tweak. ie installing PHP the setting
of mm should be --without-mm  ?? what the... that should be a tweak AFTER its installed not

then manually chmod because for some reason, even though I am logged in as root, all files are not
by default excute/write accessable

..oops ranting again... what the manual needs, is more step-by-step screen shots so things are
less hit & miss - not just for the install process, but for something like install a Web Server
with its modules - Apache+Mod_SSL+MySQL+PHP+Mod_Perl

> Note that OpenSSL is part of the base system in FreeBSD.  Unlike
> Windows, where in the best case it's considered an "add-on" that you have
> to add later.  You don't need to add anything to your FreeBSD system to
> have OpenSSL support, provided you keep the system itself relatively up
> to date, using the recommended update instructions of the Handbook or
> the file /usr/src/UPDATING.

I assume I would need to be connect to the net for this... but I would first need to secure the
system from attack BEFORE I connect - maybe this should be the first part of the docs, straight
after installing BSD+GUI+Editor+FileManager but BEFORE installing Apache

> > IMAP
> Exactly what we have now.  You can use the Ports to install all of the
> above and a lot more.  There are more than 10,000 ports in the FreeBSD
> collection now; a number that is far larger than anything Microsoft
> Windows can boast about for programs that are tightly integrated to its
> system, are available for any version of Windows and work mostly out of
> the box with minimal changes *if* any are needed at all.

Yes, but at the moment, I am manually saving ports/packages from my Windows Box on CD then put
this into my BSD CDROM & installing from there - if I am lucky & they are packages, then its fast
& simple - if its installing ports, then its slow, time consuming & prone to getting errors!

Like trying to install something as simple as xfce, then having to go back & get the
dependencies... ahhh - Multiply that by 10 apps - back & forth ... 

> If the FreeBSD ports don't meet your special requirements, because their
> limitations block you from doing things the way you like them done, you
> can always download the source of Apache, mod_perl, mod_ssl, php or any
> other programs you wish to install and follow the build instructions
> contained therein.

I tried that first & when that didn't work, I went to the ports. When that failed, I went to the
Packages. When that failed.... I became Mr Grumpy....

> When you don't know how to do something, this list is the place to ask.

When I try my next install(its now 2.00am), I will report back my findings... in more detail!

> you still haven't mentioned what the exact nature of those problems was.

.. will get back in an hour or so when I try another install

> > - with FreeBSD & Windows 2000 installed on the SAME computer, the GUI
> > of Windows 2000 is MUCH faster than any of the BSD window managers
> That's in vivid contrast to the general feeling of "speed" that
> thousands of FreeBSD users have reported so far.
> Actually, fvwm2 can be shown to have a very small memory footprint and
> still a usable look that doesn't lack some of the nice features of
> Windows 9x.  I've even seen themes of fvwm2 that resemble and mimic the
> Windows XP look without requiring 128 MB of system memory just to get
> started.  I'm not sure why you claim that Windows is faster/lighter but
> if you do have raw numbers to back your claim up I'd be interested to
> see them.

Raw numbers no... just sitting in front of the BSD screen counting the seconds.. wondering how
people use this OS - then I do a reboot & select WIN2000 & can't believe the difference.
If you want, when I have time, I could take an mpg of it & upload it for all ??

> I've been using windowmaker and fvwm2 for more than 8 years now and I
> can tell you that their configurability is almost unsurpassed, their
> look can be tweaked and changed to resemble almost anything and their
> speed is so good that I can no longer work on Windows machines without
> feeling I'm being constantly slowed down by the system's GUI flaws.

I got fvwm2 to run. How to get it to look like a Windows 2000/XP set up... I could NOT get it to
work!! I D/L the files below but could not install them(can't work out where they are supposed to
go ???)
"fvwm2 configured to look very much like Windows XP"
screenshot -
configuration files -
icons -

> Be patient!

I will try :)

>  Nobody learns how to install, configure, use & hack a new system in an afternoon's time

no... 6 days, that should be more than enough... I mastered windows 95 in 1

> > - No default GUI File Explorer (excluding KDE/GNOME, not that there's
> > is usable) - had to install xfe on wmaker(still about as useless as
> > Windows 3.1 File Manager)
> That's because you're still bound to old habits.  I have no use for
> slow, GUI monsters that require me to point and click for every little
> detail of what I want to do.

MS GUI's shows more detailed information to me than simple cmd line responses for info
.. not sure how you see Windows 2000 Explorer as slow... 

> When you do spend some time with FreeBSD though and try to learn some of
> the commands available to the command line user, you might be surprised
> at the power that is hidden under the hood in any *real* UNIX system.
> But let's leave this for the future to show.

I am interested to see this ...

> > - FreeBSD does NOT Default Mount my CD & Floppy(this is ridiculous -
> > even MS DOS NOT to mention Windows 3.1 [Year 1990... ring a bell] did
> > this!!)
> There is a reason why it's not enabled by default, but if you really,
> absolutely *MUST* enable it, it's described in the documentation.  You
> could always search for it yourself or ask on this list for details,
> pointers and/or help with your setup.

I can mount my Floppy when I run gluggy KDE, but under Wmaker, I type:
mount -v -t msdos /dev/fd0c /mnt
... and this says its mounted
but when I go into xfe.. I cannot see a floppy directory with files ???
... any hints at to what could be wrong ???

When I figure this out, then I will like to automount ... any Q&D config hints ???

> > - 300 Million Users of Windows thinks so ;)) (BTW: I am NOT including
> Honestly, I'd be very curious to see where you got that number from.

Read it in a Forbes article.. but a gestimate would be:
USA/Canada 90 Million
Europe 90 Million
China 30 Million
India 30 Million
Rest of Asia 10
Russia 25 Million
Rest Eastern Countries 25 Million

This would inlcude company/univeristy workstation, computer legal/illegal copies
... ohh didn't even include the Middle East...

> Oh, but there *is* such functionality.  You just didn't look hard enough
> to find it (sic).  The command for searching your disk is, very
> unsurprisingly, called "find".  Read its manual page with:
>  	man find

will look into that ...

> The FreeBSD Handbook is linked from the documentation pages of FreeBSD
> at `'.  One of the first things
> described in the Handbook, in great detail, including screenshots that
> will assist you during the installation.

I agree, that installation was easy, except for the damage its done to my partitions
I have Windows 2000(primary P) & BSD(primary P)

When I run partition magic in Win2000, its says that I have a BAD partition. Doing some searching,
found that BSD messes up something with the sizes of the geometry of the selected
partitions(slices) - still don't know how to fix this ???

> Did you try reading the "installation" chapter of the Handbook?  Did you
> look for any other sort of documentation that would help you get started
> with FreeBSD?

I read the installation chapter then:
2 FreeBSD Books I have + 
FreeBSD Documentation
· Handbook
· Manual pages
· For Newbies +

> It's easy to install fully functional, complete desktops like KDE or
> GNOME from the installation CD-ROMs.  Refer to the installation
> instructions on your CD-ROM disk (there should be a file called
> INSTALL.TXT with a lot of help about the installation itself) or to the
> online documentation I mentioned earlier for details.

I don't want a bloated desktop install like KDE(see beginning email)

> > I cannot tell you the shock & disappointment I had in finding out that
> > Windows 2000 runs FASTER than FreeBSD with any GUI/Windows
> > Manager/Desktop Environment ... :(((
> I don't really think so, but you're entitled to your own, personal
> opinion.  Since you're not mentioning why you think that this is so,
> I'll have to answer with just a simple phrase: "not really".

I replied to "Remko Lodder" same subject post & I said there the different speeds I was getting

> It is obvious that you're tired, angry and totally pissed off.
> Take your time.  Relax a bit, and start over.

I will try to relax... thnks

> This time, please, read the installation instructions carefully.  Try to
> understand what is being said, and if you don't ask.  Send mail to this
> list with your questions and I'll be one of the first to answer.

I will try again & again.... until I get this right.... 

> I hope you have better luck the second time you try :-)

Try 6th

> Whenever you face problems like this one, that seem impossibly difficult
> for a FreeBSD newcomer, don't hesitate to ask.
> There are no stupid questions.  There are, however, many knowledgeable
> and helpful people on this list.

thnx ... I will report back then with any problem I encounter on my next try :)

Kind Regards,


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