From edwin at mavetju.org Wed Jul 1 22:37:28 2009 From: edwin at mavetju.org (Edwin Groothuis) Date: Wed Jul 1 22:37:39 2009 Subject: CLDR import for src/share/*def definitions Message-ID: <20090701223726.GA36335@mavetju.org> I have been playing with the CLDR database to see if I can get the monetary, time, messages and numerical definitions right. The CLDR is in UTF-8, I use iconv to translate to other charactersets. So far most of it is fine, except (subset of issues): - A couple of languages are not known (es_FR, es_IT) - A couple of languages have a different abbrevation no_NO -> nb_NO nn_NO *_YU -> *_RS - A couple of charactersets are not known to iconv: (CP1131 ISCII-DECV) - A couple of translations went wrong: Writing to fi_FI in ISO8859-1 Could not convert currency_symbol from UTF-8 to ISO8859-1 - It is not clear what the difference between "Long month names (as in a date)" and "Long month names (without case ending)" is. (could be my language problem :-) The biggest problem so far is not a technical: WHich data is more authoritative - The one in the CLDR database or the one we have collected over the years from various sources and people? Another problem I'm facing is that there is little documentation on what the format of the *def/ files is, it is mostly a UTSL approach in lib/libc/locale, but that doesn't show me neither if I can safely replace (for example in uk_UA) # yesstr - +::::yes:y:YES:Y So euhm... Is there anybody who wants to give their opinion or wisdom about things, please speak up, I need it :-) Edwin -- Edwin Groothuis Website: http://www.mavetju.org/ edwin@mavetju.org Weblog: http://www.mavetju.org/weblog/ From bugmaster at FreeBSD.org Mon Jul 6 11:06:59 2009 From: bugmaster at FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD bugmaster) Date: Mon Jul 6 11:08:18 2009 Subject: Current problem reports assigned to freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <200907061106.n66B6wUD010779@freefall.freebsd.org> Note: to view an individual PR, use: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=(number). The following is a listing of current problems submitted by FreeBSD users. These represent problem reports covering all versions including experimental development code and obsolete releases. S Tracker Resp. Description -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- f conf/109367 i18n [locale] UTF8 encoded locales and problem collating ac f conf/91106 i18n [locale] date definitions in pl_PL locale are wrong 2 problems total. From wolfgang at lyxys.ka.sub.org Mon Jul 6 18:01:11 2009 From: wolfgang at lyxys.ka.sub.org (Wolfgang Zenker) Date: Mon Jul 6 18:01:18 2009 Subject: CLDR import for src/share/*def definitions In-Reply-To: <20090701223726.GA36335@mavetju.org> References: <20090701223726.GA36335@mavetju.org> Message-ID: <20090706180055.GA18458@lyxys.ka.sub.org> Hi, * Edwin Groothuis [090702 00:37]: > I have been playing with the CLDR database to see if I can get the > monetary, time, messages and numerical definitions right. The CLDR > is in UTF-8, I use iconv to translate to other charactersets. > So far most of it is fine, except (subset of issues): > - A couple of languages are not known (es_FR, es_IT) what do you mean by "not known"? Both locales specify a spanish language locale, one for use in France and one in Italy. There might even be no different language contructs from es_ES, just different ways to format dates ore something like that. > - A couple of languages have a different abbrevation > no_NO -> nb_NO nn_NO > *_YU -> *_RS You best ask a norwegian about the locales to use for Norway; for the second line I'ld go with *_RS, as the former Yugoslavia hac split into aming others the Republic of Serbia (which i assume the code RS is supposed to mean). > - A couple of charactersets are not known to iconv: > (CP1131 ISCII-DECV) Never heard of them. > - A couple of translations went wrong: > Writing to fi_FI in ISO8859-1 > Could not convert currency_symbol from UTF-8 to ISO8859-1 Thats because Finland uses the Euro and the Euro-sign does not exist in ISO8859-1; you have to use ISO8859-15 if you want the ? currency symbol in an ISO8859-* charset. > - It is not clear what the difference between "Long month names (as > in a date)" and "Long month names (without case ending)" is. (could > be my language problem :-) I don't know either; could you give an example where the two are different? Preferably in a language where we find some speaekers here :-) I do speak english, german, latin and some arabic, if that is of any help. > The biggest problem so far is not a technical: WHich data is more > authoritative - The one in the CLDR database or the one we have > collected over the years from various sources and people? I _think_ the CLDR has been relying on people coming forward with information the same way that we have, so I consider neither _the_ authoritative source. Best to just list conflicting entries and ask around for locals on the lit that could help resolve conflicts. > Another problem I'm facing is that there is little documentation > on what the format of the *def/ files is, it is mostly a UTSL > approach in lib/libc/locale, but that doesn't show me neither if I > can safely replace (for example in uk_UA) > # yesstr > - > +::::yes:y:YES:Y Sorry, no clue, can't help you here. > So euhm... Is there anybody who wants to give their opinion or > wisdom about things, please speak up, I need it :-) I don't know if it was of any help, but here you got my 2? Wolfgang From wolfgang at lyxys.ka.sub.org Mon Jul 6 18:53:07 2009 From: wolfgang at lyxys.ka.sub.org (Wolfgang Zenker) Date: Mon Jul 6 18:53:14 2009 Subject: CLDR import for src/share/*def definitions In-Reply-To: <4A5245A7.2020204@tikismikis.org> References: <20090701223726.GA36335@mavetju.org> <20090706180055.GA18458@lyxys.ka.sub.org> <4A5245A7.2020204@tikismikis.org> Message-ID: <20090706185251.GA19825@lyxys.ka.sub.org> Hi, * J. Vicente Carrasco -Bixen- [090706 20:42]: > Wolfgang Zenker(e)k dio: >> * Edwin Groothuis [090702 00:37]: >>> I have been playing with the CLDR database to see if I can get the >>> monetary, time, messages and numerical definitions right. The CLDR >>> is in UTF-8, I use iconv to translate to other charactersets. >>> So far most of it is fine, except (subset of issues): >>>- A couple of languages are not known (es_FR, es_IT) >> what do you mean by "not known"? Both locales specify a spanish language >> locale, one for use in France and one in Italy. There might even be no >> different language contructs from es_ES, just different ways to format >> dates ore something like that. > Maybe I'm missing something, but as a Spanish native speaker I can't > understand why we (the Spanish-speaking community) could need locales as > es_FR or es_IT or even why would be necessary for the French and Italian > speaking world. Is something like en_ES, no_IT or de_RU. Why the heck is > that? ;-) as I understand it, that would be locales for use by spanish speaking communities living in France and Italy, respectively. So someone who uses one of these locales gets e.g. system messages in spanish but dates formatted according to the customs in France or something like that. Wolfgang From carvay at tikismikis.org Mon Jul 6 18:59:24 2009 From: carvay at tikismikis.org (J. Vicente Carrasco -Bixen- ) Date: Mon Jul 6 18:59:30 2009 Subject: CLDR import for src/share/*def definitions In-Reply-To: <20090706185251.GA19825@lyxys.ka.sub.org> References: <20090701223726.GA36335@mavetju.org> <20090706180055.GA18458@lyxys.ka.sub.org> <4A5245A7.2020204@tikismikis.org> <20090706185251.GA19825@lyxys.ka.sub.org> Message-ID: <4A524972.90401@tikismikis.org> Wolfgang Zenker(e)k dio: > Hi, > > * J. Vicente Carrasco -Bixen- [090706 20:42]: >> Wolfgang Zenker(e)k dio: >>> * Edwin Groothuis [090702 00:37]: >>>> I have been playing with the CLDR database to see if I can get the >>>> monetary, time, messages and numerical definitions right. The CLDR >>>> is in UTF-8, I use iconv to translate to other charactersets. > >>>> So far most of it is fine, except (subset of issues): > >>>> - A couple of languages are not known (es_FR, es_IT) > >>> what do you mean by "not known"? Both locales specify a spanish language >>> locale, one for use in France and one in Italy. There might even be no >>> different language contructs from es_ES, just different ways to format >>> dates ore something like that. > >> Maybe I'm missing something, but as a Spanish native speaker I can't >> understand why we (the Spanish-speaking community) could need locales as >> es_FR or es_IT or even why would be necessary for the French and Italian >> speaking world. Is something like en_ES, no_IT or de_RU. Why the heck is >> that? ;-) > > as I understand it, that would be locales for use by spanish speaking > communities living in France and Italy, respectively. So someone who > uses one of these locales gets e.g. system messages in spanish but > dates formatted according to the customs in France or something like > that. > Spanish speaking communities living in France and Italy... and using FreeBSD. Suddendly my pet project of Basque localization (eu_ES and maybe eu_FR) sounds more and more interesting ;-) -- =================================================== J. Vicente Carrasco -- Bixen carvay at [tikismikis.org | es.FreeBSD.org] Current Basque Beret: Spanish FDP Translationmeister ==================================================== -- From carvay at tikismikis.org Mon Jul 6 19:09:45 2009 From: carvay at tikismikis.org (J. Vicente Carrasco -Bixen- ) Date: Mon Jul 6 19:09:51 2009 Subject: CLDR import for src/share/*def definitions In-Reply-To: <20090706180055.GA18458@lyxys.ka.sub.org> References: <20090701223726.GA36335@mavetju.org> <20090706180055.GA18458@lyxys.ka.sub.org> Message-ID: <4A5245A7.2020204@tikismikis.org> Wolfgang Zenker(e)k dio: > Hi, > > * Edwin Groothuis [090702 00:37]: >> I have been playing with the CLDR database to see if I can get the >> monetary, time, messages and numerical definitions right. The CLDR >> is in UTF-8, I use iconv to translate to other charactersets. > >> So far most of it is fine, except (subset of issues): > >> - A couple of languages are not known (es_FR, es_IT) > > what do you mean by "not known"? Both locales specify a spanish language > locale, one for use in France and one in Italy. There might even be no > different language contructs from es_ES, just different ways to format > dates ore something like that. > Hello: Maybe I'm missing something, but as a Spanish native speaker I can't understand why we (the Spanish-speaking community) could need locales as es_FR or es_IT or even why would be necessary for the French and Italian speaking world. Is something like en_ES, no_IT or de_RU. Why the heck is that? ;-) Best regards. -- =================================================== J. Vicente Carrasco -- Bixen carvay at [tikismikis.org | es.FreeBSD.org] Current Basque Beret: Spanish FDP Translationmeister ==================================================== -- From wolfgang at lyxys.ka.sub.org Mon Jul 6 19:17:34 2009 From: wolfgang at lyxys.ka.sub.org (Wolfgang Zenker) Date: Mon Jul 6 19:17:42 2009 Subject: CLDR import for src/share/*def definitions In-Reply-To: <4A524972.90401@tikismikis.org> References: <20090701223726.GA36335@mavetju.org> <20090706180055.GA18458@lyxys.ka.sub.org> <4A5245A7.2020204@tikismikis.org> <20090706185251.GA19825@lyxys.ka.sub.org> <4A524972.90401@tikismikis.org> Message-ID: <20090706191718.GB19825@lyxys.ka.sub.org> Hi, * J. Vicente Carrasco -Bixen- [090706 20:58]: > Wolfgang Zenker(e)k dio: >>* J. Vicente Carrasco -Bixen- [090706 20:42]: >>>Wolfgang Zenker(e)k dio: >>>>* Edwin Groothuis [090702 00:37]: >>>>>I have been playing with the CLDR database to see if I can get the >>>>>monetary, time, messages and numerical definitions right. The CLDR >>>>>is in UTF-8, I use iconv to translate to other charactersets. >>>>>So far most of it is fine, except (subset of issues): >>>>>- A couple of languages are not known (es_FR, es_IT) >>>>what do you mean by "not known"? Both locales specify a spanish language >>>>locale, one for use in France and one in Italy. There might even be no >>>>different language contructs from es_ES, just different ways to format >>>>dates ore something like that. >>>Maybe I'm missing something, but as a Spanish native speaker I can't >>>understand why we (the Spanish-speaking community) could need locales as >>>es_FR or es_IT or even why would be necessary for the French and Italian >>>speaking world. Is something like en_ES, no_IT or de_RU. Why the heck is >>>that? ;-) >>as I understand it, that would be locales for use by spanish speaking >>communities living in France and Italy, respectively. So someone who >>uses one of these locales gets e.g. system messages in spanish but >>dates formatted according to the customs in France or something like >>that. > Spanish speaking communities living in France and Italy... and using > FreeBSD. Suddendly my pet project of Basque localization (eu_ES and > maybe eu_FR) sounds more and more interesting ;-) sounds cool, go ahead! Wolfgang From securityAlerts at a248.boa.aka_mai.com Mon Jul 6 21:31:17 2009 From: securityAlerts at a248.boa.aka_mai.com (Bank of America) Date: Mon Jul 6 21:31:23 2009 Subject: Bank Of America Online Alert : Verify Your Information ID# d885f20cbd1f2d7442e324bc1bcdb689 Message-ID: <200907061910.n66JAnNq041687@web04.triwdata.ch> [mhd_reg_logo.gif] [em_title_red.gif] Dear customer, Protecting the security of our customers and the Bank of America ! network , as a preventative measure, we have temporarily limited access to sensitive account features. To restore your account access, please take the following steps to ensure that your account has not been compromised: After updates : 1.Login to your Bank of America Online Banking account. In case you are not enrolled for Online Banking, you will have to fill in all the required information, including your name and you account number. 2. Review your recent account history for any unauthorized withdrawals or deposits, and check you account profile to make sure not changes have been made. If any unauthorized activity has taken place on your account, report this to Bank of America staff immediately. To get started, please click the link below: ! [1]https://sitekey.bankofamerica.com/sas/signon.do?&detect=3&p=d41d8cd 98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e3265464 _________________________________________________________________ This alert has been sent to you based on your preferences. 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All rights reserved d885f20cbd1f2d7442e324bc1bcdb689 _________________________________________________________________ References 1. http://indietones.net/preview/Onlineid.bankofameri!ca.com/cgi-bini/668d93445065081fa9f2b085cbde792e0d2e0da50a9b4260a03c403a83c60055efdf4a1c/c7206040b068b58cba7fadd6a5b4e341/bofa/ibdIAS/bankofamerica/signon.php?section=signinpage&update=&cookiecheck=yes&destination=nba/signin From naddy at mips.inka.de Tue Jul 7 19:33:18 2009 From: naddy at mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Date: Tue Jul 7 19:33:26 2009 Subject: CLDR import for src/share/*def definitions References: <20090701223726.GA36335@mavetju.org> Message-ID: Edwin Groothuis wrote: > - It is not clear what the difference between "Long month names (as > in a date)" and "Long month names (without case ending)" is. (could > be my language problem :-) Take Polish for example. The month of July is "lipiec", but today's date is "7 lipca"--literally "7 of July", with the month name in genitive case. You need different forms when referring to the plain month and to the month as part of a date. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From bugmaster at FreeBSD.org Mon Jul 13 11:06:56 2009 From: bugmaster at FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD bugmaster) Date: Mon Jul 13 11:08:25 2009 Subject: Current problem reports assigned to freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <200907131106.n6DB6tjr040612@freefall.freebsd.org> Note: to view an individual PR, use: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=(number). The following is a listing of current problems submitted by FreeBSD users. These represent problem reports covering all versions including experimental development code and obsolete releases. S Tracker Resp. Description -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- f conf/109367 i18n [locale] UTF8 encoded locales and problem collating ac f conf/91106 i18n [locale] date definitions in pl_PL locale are wrong 2 problems total. From bugmaster at FreeBSD.org Mon Jul 20 11:06:56 2009 From: bugmaster at FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD bugmaster) Date: Mon Jul 20 11:08:21 2009 Subject: Current problem reports assigned to freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <200907201106.n6KB6tmB002287@freefall.freebsd.org> Note: to view an individual PR, use: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=(number). The following is a listing of current problems submitted by FreeBSD users. These represent problem reports covering all versions including experimental development code and obsolete releases. S Tracker Resp. Description -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- f conf/109367 i18n [locale] UTF8 encoded locales and problem collating ac f conf/91106 i18n [locale] date definitions in pl_PL locale are wrong 2 problems total. From bugmaster at FreeBSD.org Mon Jul 27 11:06:55 2009 From: bugmaster at FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD bugmaster) Date: Mon Jul 27 11:08:27 2009 Subject: Current problem reports assigned to freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <200907271106.n6RB6suc018947@freefall.freebsd.org> Note: to view an individual PR, use: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=(number). The following is a listing of current problems submitted by FreeBSD users. These represent problem reports covering all versions including experimental development code and obsolete releases. S Tracker Resp. Description -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- f conf/109367 i18n [locale] UTF8 encoded locales and problem collating ac f conf/91106 i18n [locale] date definitions in pl_PL locale are wrong 2 problems total.