From guru at unixarea.de Tue Jul 1 09:02:25 2008 From: guru at unixarea.de (Matthias Apitz) Date: Tue Jul 1 09:02:44 2008 Subject: eeePC 900 && turning off wireless (ath0) In-Reply-To: <20080629162234.GB1261@phi.local> References: <20080626075545.GA2964@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080626231603.GC6875@phi.local> <20080627080203.GA19602@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080627194447.GA34524@phi.local> <20080629160527.GA17075@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080629162234.GB1261@phi.local> Message-ID: <20080701090220.GA4431@rebelion.Sisis.de> El d?a Sunday, June 29, 2008 a las 05:22:34PM +0100, Rui Paulo escribi?: > On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 06:05:27PM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote: > > Hola Rui, > > > > I've found your very usefull pages in http://wiki.freebsd.org/AsusEee > > > > I CVS'uped the kernel to RELENG_7, built it and moved it to the eeePC; > > now Fn+F2 works as it should and I can even kldunload if_ath, power-off > > and power-on the wireless card, and after kldload if_ath the interface > > comes up fine again and my devd(8) hook assigns IP again; now it works as > > it should; will have a look into the events seen by devd(8) to make the > > kldunload and kldload perhaps there; > > > > thanks for your work and help; > > Cool, no problem. Rui, Have you commited your changes to RELENG_7 too or only to HEAD? I'm asking because Fn+F2 does toggle the power of the wireless NIC but devd(8) does not see any ACPI event in this case; it sees it for example if the battery comes full; thx for clarifying this could you please send me the /etc/devd.conf file you mention in the page http://wiki.freebsd.org/AsusEee ? in the one which came out of CVS with RELENG_7 I could not see anything about hotkeys; thx in advance matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/ ?...una sola vez, que es cuanto basta si se trata de verdades definitivas.? ?...only once, which is enough if it has todo with definite truth.? Jos? Saramago, Historia del Cerca de Lisboa From rpaulo at FreeBSD.org Tue Jul 1 11:15:58 2008 From: rpaulo at FreeBSD.org (Rui Paulo) Date: Tue Jul 1 11:16:05 2008 Subject: eeePC 900 && turning off wireless (ath0) In-Reply-To: <20080701090220.GA4431@rebelion.Sisis.de> References: <20080626075545.GA2964@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080626231603.GC6875@phi.local> <20080627080203.GA19602@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080627194447.GA34524@phi.local> <20080629160527.GA17075@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080629162234.GB1261@phi.local> <20080701090220.GA4431@rebelion.Sisis.de> Message-ID: <20080701111426.GA1152@phi.local> On Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 11:02:20AM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote: > Rui, > Have you commited your changes to RELENG_7 too or only to HEAD? I'm > asking because Fn+F2 does toggle the power of the wireless NIC but > devd(8) does not see any ACPI event in this case; it sees it for example > if the battery comes full; > > thx for clarifying this > > could you please send me the /etc/devd.conf file you mention in the page > http://wiki.freebsd.org/AsusEee ? in the one which came out of CVS with > RELENG_7 I could not see anything about hotkeys; thx in advance Only to HEAD. I'm going to MFC it today. Regards, -- Rui Paulo From des at des.no Tue Jul 1 11:38:58 2008 From: des at des.no (=?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) Date: Tue Jul 1 11:39:03 2008 Subject: deflate and gzip support for libfetch over http In-Reply-To: <48691DD6.9000306@bsdforen.de> (Dominic Fandrey's message of "Mon\, 30 Jun 2008 19\:54\:30 +0200") References: <48691DD6.9000306@bsdforen.de> Message-ID: <86iqvp25rl.fsf@ds4.des.no> Dominic Fandrey writes: > I hacked together deflate support for the http part of libfetch. Next > on my todo list is proper error handling, gzip support, code clean up > and general code clean up in http.c (in order of priority). I think the libfetch API has been stretched to its limit, or close to it, and that it should be redesigned from scratch. That said, I don't see any harm in adding deflate / gzip support, but it has to be done in a way that supports transfers that are chunked *and* compressed. DES -- Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav - des@des.no From rpaulo at FreeBSD.org Wed Jul 2 12:42:04 2008 From: rpaulo at FreeBSD.org (Rui Paulo) Date: Wed Jul 2 12:42:11 2008 Subject: Custom VESA modes on FreeBSD 7? In-Reply-To: <20080628191533.367ad223@bhuda.mired.org> References: <20080628191533.367ad223@bhuda.mired.org> Message-ID: <20080702121545.GA7515@phi.local> On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 07:15:33PM -0400, Mike Meyer wrote: > I'm trying to get FreeBSD 7-RELEASE running in a VirtualBox VM to use > all of my LCD panel in X. The running X is using the vesa driver, > which should be cool for this, as VirtualBox has provisions for > creating custom vesa modes. And in fact, the Xorg.0.log file shows > that it sees the new mode - but it doesn't use it. > > The VirtualBox docs note that for Linux to use such a mode, you have > to provide a "vga" command line option with the new mode # in it to > the linux kernel. None of the FreeBSD boot parameters seem applicable > here. > > Basically, the question is - what do I have to do to get the X.org > vesa driver to use a non-standard vesa mode on FreeBSD? Is there any > other information I can attach that might help with this? Maybe you need to add a correct ModeLine to your xorg config file ? A quick Google search returned: http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?t=59 HTH, -- Rui Paulo From fernando.apesteguia at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 16:50:43 2008 From: fernando.apesteguia at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Apestegu=EDa?=) Date: Wed Jul 2 16:50:46 2008 Subject: FreeBSD 7 64 bits kernel crash debugging Message-ID: <1bd550a00807020950x24af0f8n6d2a9c66f14f1cfd@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I'm experiencing several kernel crashes with the GENERIC kernel and with custom kernels as well. One of my MP3 players seems to be recognized, but if I disconnect it from the USB port (even without mounting the device), I got a kernel crash. I've tried to follow the instructions at http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/developers-handbook/kerneldebug.html I have dumpdev and dumpdir properly set to my swap partition (ad0s2b) and to /var/crash. However, during the next boot, I got a message that indicates it is looking for a dump on such device but it couldn't find any. How can I track this error? Thanks in advance. From jan6146 at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 18:51:50 2008 From: jan6146 at gmail.com (Rob Lytle) Date: Wed Jul 2 19:30:15 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years Message-ID: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998. 1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an incredibly tedious miserable process. I had to switch out the CD's around 40 times. If you don't believe me, just mark a whole bunch of random packages after obtaining the 7.0 release CD's, ad then install. Its frustrating and almost like Windows, except its a bit faster as replacing CD's is faster than reboots. 2. When installing any given package, if a dependency is already there , the package aborts and then goes though some loop where you have to press OK half a dozen times. Thats insane. I think the CD switching problem would be to install all the packages at once from CD1, then CD2, then CD3. As for the second case, I don't know enough about the infrastructure to suggest any thing except to perhaps comment that code in its entirety or put in switch to bypass already installed dependencies. I wish I knew more about your infrastructure to fix this myself. Is it written in Python? Thats the only language I'm not so rusty at. I've programmed in 5 languages, but that was long ago. I'm old. But someone who knows the system could probably fix it fast. I think this is such an inherent infrastructure problem that has existed so long that a bug report would be futile. Food for thought. Thanks, Rob -- ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds (Ham radio videos) From mwm at mired.org Wed Jul 2 20:18:12 2008 From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer) Date: Wed Jul 2 20:22:33 2008 Subject: Custom VESA modes on FreeBSD 7? In-Reply-To: <20080702121545.GA7515@phi.local> References: <20080628191533.367ad223@bhuda.mired.org> <20080702121545.GA7515@phi.local> Message-ID: <20080702155128.2a4c5a23@mbook.local> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 13:15:45 +0100 Rui Paulo wrote: > On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 07:15:33PM -0400, Mike Meyer wrote: > > I'm trying to get FreeBSD 7-RELEASE running in a VirtualBox VM to use > > all of my LCD panel in X. The running X is using the vesa driver, > > which should be cool for this, as VirtualBox has provisions for > > creating custom vesa modes. And in fact, the Xorg.0.log file shows > > that it sees the new mode - but it doesn't use it. > > > > The VirtualBox docs note that for Linux to use such a mode, you have > > to provide a "vga" command line option with the new mode # in it to > > the linux kernel. None of the FreeBSD boot parameters seem applicable > > here. > > > > Basically, the question is - what do I have to do to get the X.org > > vesa driver to use a non-standard vesa mode on FreeBSD? Is there any > > other information I can attach that might help with this? > > Maybe you need to add a correct ModeLine to your xorg config file ? > > A quick Google search returned: > http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?t=59 Yeah, I had seen that. He's not using the vesa driver; he's using the VirtualBox driver (not available for FreeBSD as far as I know). However, I had tried setting the modelines and modes as suggested, and this still doesn't work - the vesa driver reports the new mode, but X never even considers using it. Thanks, http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From millenia2000 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 2 20:29:09 2008 From: millenia2000 at hotmail.com (Sean Cavanaugh) Date: Wed Jul 2 20:29:12 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:23:48 -0700 > From: jan6146@gmail.com > To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; freebsd-current@freebsd.org > CC: > Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years > > Hi All, > > My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998. > > 1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an incredibly > tedious miserable process. I had to switch out the CD's around 40 times. > If you don't believe me, just mark a whole bunch of random packages after > obtaining the 7.0 release CD's, ad then install. Its frustrating and almost > like Windows, except its a bit faster as replacing CD's is faster than > reboots. > > 2. When installing any given package, if a dependency is already there , > the package aborts and then goes though some loop where you have to press > OK half a dozen times. Thats insane. > > I think the CD switching problem would be to install all the packages at > once from CD1, then CD2, then CD3. As for the second case, I don't know > enough about the infrastructure to suggest any thing except to perhaps > comment that code in its entirety or put in switch to bypass already > installed dependencies. > > I wish I knew more about your infrastructure to fix this myself. Is it > written in Python? Thats the only language I'm not so rusty at. I've > programmed in 5 languages, but that was long ago. I'm old. But someone who > knows the system could probably fix it fast. I think this is such an > inherent infrastructure problem that has existed so long that a bug report > would be futile. > > Food for thought. Thanks, This is the reason I install everything from ports. The packages were divided into understandable clusters to make them fit on CDs. Perhaps you would benefit from getting the DVD ISO instead which has everything together. Im sure someone on the list could provide you the link for it or google for it. -Sean From curtis.penner2 at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 22:43:18 2008 From: curtis.penner2 at gmail.com (Curtis Penner) Date: Wed Jul 2 22:43:22 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> Let us take this further. Let's compare BSD to the Linux install solutions. Well, lets not, Linux is so far ahead of BSD. Linux understands the user. BSD has a better overall core OS then the other UNIX flavors. The size to capability is outstanding. Once you have the core OS on the system it is rock steady and only getting better. The documentation is outstanding. It is what others should look to. So what is wrong? It doesn't have the native 3rd party applications. Why? Not enough users. Why? Because it is hard to get what you want unless you are tech savvy. When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The front-end is like something from the DOS days. You have to be tech savvy to know what you want to do. You have to search out all the variations of the applications (tedious and unnecessary) to get a full package -- Examples: Postgres, PHP, etc. To add wireless (very common these day), you better set aside as much time or more as doing the initial install. Given that the system is rock solid, you think more people would develop on it, at least secondarily. But no. Java - go fish. All the development environments and features that go with it (Eclipse, NetBean, Hibernation, Sturts, and so forth) are painful to get. You feel like a rabbit jumping around, and then it most likely doesn't work. That is such a turn off. As for the installs, to get an idea of how to package an install, look at the current install packages that are from the Linux side. You don't have to copy, but emulate. (Oh, the best out-of-the-box is Apple.) I have installed Linux, MacOS, HPUX, Solaris, Window (NT, XP, Vista), and the BSDs, and I have found the BSDs to be so yesterday that there is little in common with the rest. Porting, so that applications that matter go native, we need more installs and more people on the systems. That means more installs to laptops. The installs have to be seamless and complete. That mean getting more Open Source people and companies to compile and distribute BSD. I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click with not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go advance and do special custom work). -Curtis Rob Lytle wrote: > Hi All, > > My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998. > > 1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an incredibly > tedious miserable process. I had to switch out the CD's around 40 times. > If you don't believe me, just mark a whole bunch of random packages after > obtaining the 7.0 release CD's, ad then install. Its frustrating and almost > like Windows, except its a bit faster as replacing CD's is faster than > reboots. > > 2. When installing any given package, if a dependency is already there , > the package aborts and then goes though some loop where you have to press > OK half a dozen times. Thats insane. > > I think the CD switching problem would be to install all the packages at > once from CD1, then CD2, then CD3. As for the second case, I don't know > enough about the infrastructure to suggest any thing except to perhaps > comment that code in its entirety or put in switch to bypass already > installed dependencies. > > I wish I knew more about your infrastructure to fix this myself. Is it > written in Python? Thats the only language I'm not so rusty at. I've > programmed in 5 languages, but that was long ago. I'm old. But someone who > knows the system could probably fix it fast. I think this is such an > inherent infrastructure problem that has existed so long that a bug report > would be futile. > > Food for thought. Thanks, > > Rob > > From max at love2party.net Wed Jul 2 22:45:30 2008 From: max at love2party.net (Max Laier) Date: Wed Jul 2 22:45:38 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200807030043.18865.max@love2party.net> http://www.pcbsd.org/ From rwatson at FreeBSD.org Wed Jul 2 22:59:56 2008 From: rwatson at FreeBSD.org (Robert Watson) Date: Wed Jul 2 23:00:01 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Rob Lytle wrote: > My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998. The good news is that there are no less than three in-progress sysinstall replacements. At least two have been posted about recently with test ISOs for 7.0. And there are at least a couple of other variations floating around, such as the PC-BSD installer. So I think we can expect to see non-trivial progress here in the next year. My primary concern about some of these replacement installer projects is that they've placed a strong focus on making them graphical -- I actually couldn't care less about GUIs (and I think they actually hurt my configurations, since I use serial consoles a lot), but what I do want is a very tight and efficient install process, which I feel sysinstall does badly on (not just for the reasons you specify). Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge > > 1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an incredibly > tedious miserable process. I had to switch out the CD's around 40 times. > If you don't believe me, just mark a whole bunch of random packages after > obtaining the 7.0 release CD's, ad then install. Its frustrating and almost > like Windows, except its a bit faster as replacing CD's is faster than > reboots. > > 2. When installing any given package, if a dependency is already there , > the package aborts and then goes though some loop where you have to press > OK half a dozen times. Thats insane. > > I think the CD switching problem would be to install all the packages at > once from CD1, then CD2, then CD3. As for the second case, I don't know > enough about the infrastructure to suggest any thing except to perhaps > comment that code in its entirety or put in switch to bypass already > installed dependencies. > > I wish I knew more about your infrastructure to fix this myself. Is it > written in Python? Thats the only language I'm not so rusty at. I've > programmed in 5 languages, but that was long ago. I'm old. But someone who > knows the system could probably fix it fast. I think this is such an > inherent infrastructure problem that has existed so long that a bug report > would be futile. > > Food for thought. Thanks, > > Rob > > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------- > http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds > (Ham radio videos) > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From fbsd-hackers at mawer.org Wed Jul 2 23:23:53 2008 From: fbsd-hackers at mawer.org (Antony Mawer) Date: Wed Jul 2 23:23:55 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <486C0699.6070006@mawer.org> Curtis Penner wrote: > Let us take this further. ... > When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The > front-end is like something from the DOS days. You have to be tech > savvy to know what you want to do. ... > I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click > with not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go > advance and do special custom work). Ivan Voras has done some great work on addressing this with his finstall project: http://wiki.freebsd.org/finstall http://sourceforge.net/projects/finstall --Antony From antoinebrunel at yahoo.fr Wed Jul 2 23:16:38 2008 From: antoinebrunel at yahoo.fr (Antoine BRUNEL) Date: Wed Jul 2 23:30:48 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <486C0928.8050607@yahoo.fr> I complete what Curtis wrote... How many times do you have to install a BSD system ??? even in case of hell, you can still remove every ports/ package, juste leaving the CSH and kernel layer, then install what you need again... try to remove the "glibc" package from Linux (an Howto exists), and enjoy.... Compared to Windows / Linux (RedHat or Suse distributions), BSD still offers a way to finely tune your system depending on your needs, instead of putting gigabyte software in place, "just in case of", with tons of windows managers, productivity tools, etc... BSD are still "harder" systems compared to other, but with more control on what happens.... In conclusion, I can agree you in that the "sysinstall" soft is a bit out-dated, but it respond on a need of a BSD philosophy: just installing a working operating system. All the later tasks have to be done by "hands". But that's exactly what I wanted when I replaced Windows / Debian to FreeBSD: having a full control on my system. So, just another useless contribution..... Curtis Penner a ?crit : > Let us take this further. > > Let's compare BSD to the Linux install solutions. Well, lets not, > Linux is so far ahead of BSD. Linux understands the user. > > BSD has a better overall core OS then the other UNIX flavors. The > size to capability is outstanding. Once you have the core OS on the > system it is rock steady and only getting better. The documentation > is outstanding. It is what others should look to. > > So what is wrong? > > It doesn't have the native 3rd party applications. Why? Not enough > users. Why? Because it is hard to get what you want unless you are > tech savvy. > > When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The > front-end is like something from the DOS days. You have to be tech > savvy to know what you want to do. You have to search out all the > variations of the applications (tedious and unnecessary) to get a full > package -- Examples: Postgres, PHP, etc. To add wireless (very common > these day), you better set aside as much time or more as doing the > initial install. > > Given that the system is rock solid, you think more people would > develop on it, at least secondarily. But no. Java - go fish. All > the development environments and features that go with it (Eclipse, > NetBean, Hibernation, Sturts, and so forth) are painful to get. You > feel like a rabbit jumping around, and then it most likely doesn't > work. That is such a turn off. > > As for the installs, to get an idea of how to package an install, look > at the current install packages that are from the Linux side. You > don't have to copy, but emulate. (Oh, the best out-of-the-box is Apple.) > > I have installed Linux, MacOS, HPUX, Solaris, Window (NT, XP, Vista), > and the BSDs, and I have found the BSDs to be so yesterday that there > is little in common with the rest. > > Porting, so that applications that matter go native, we need more > installs and more people on the systems. That means more installs to > laptops. The installs have to be seamless and complete. That mean > getting more Open Source people and companies to compile and > distribute BSD. > > I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click > with not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go > advance and do special custom work). > > > -Curtis > > > Rob Lytle wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998. >> >> 1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an >> incredibly >> tedious miserable process. I had to switch out the CD's around 40 >> times. >> If you don't believe me, just mark a whole bunch of random packages >> after >> obtaining the 7.0 release CD's, ad then install. Its frustrating and >> almost >> like Windows, except its a bit faster as replacing CD's is faster than >> reboots. >> >> 2. When installing any given package, if a dependency is already >> there , >> the package aborts and then goes though some loop where you have to >> press >> OK half a dozen times. Thats insane. >> >> I think the CD switching problem would be to install all the packages at >> once from CD1, then CD2, then CD3. As for the second case, I don't know >> enough about the infrastructure to suggest any thing except to perhaps >> comment that code in its entirety or put in switch to bypass already >> installed dependencies. >> >> I wish I knew more about your infrastructure to fix this myself. Is it >> written in Python? Thats the only language I'm not so rusty at. I've >> programmed in 5 languages, but that was long ago. I'm old. But >> someone who >> knows the system could probably fix it fast. I think this is such an >> inherent infrastructure problem that has existed so long that a bug >> report >> would be futile. >> >> Food for thought. Thanks, >> >> Rob >> >> > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From randy at psg.com Wed Jul 2 23:26:22 2008 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Wed Jul 2 23:52:14 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <486C0E9B.5070608@psg.com> > I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click if i want point and click, i use a mac (and spend a lot of time using find to see where the hell they moved things). if i want solid & performance, i run freebsd and learn to live with portupgrade. because expert people resources are very limited, i would rather that freebsd folk work on solid & performance. randy, who is embarrassed by his lack of contribution From stephen at math.missouri.edu Wed Jul 2 23:57:20 2008 From: stephen at math.missouri.edu (Stephen Montgomery-Smith) Date: Wed Jul 2 23:57:24 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <20080702233411.GA26065@phat.za.net> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> <20080702233411.GA26065@phat.za.net> Message-ID: <486C15DE.3000504@math.missouri.edu> On the whole, I rather like the installation process for FreeBSD. Generally what I really like about FreeBSD is the ease of system administration, and whenever I use Linux distributions I get rather frustrated. If, as the OP suggests, installation of packages from the FreeBSD CD's requires switching around 40 times, then that is bad. But it should be something easily fixable, without greatly modifying the rest of the process. Stephen From frase at frase.id.au Thu Jul 3 00:08:24 2008 From: frase at frase.id.au (Fraser Tweedale) Date: Thu Jul 3 00:08:28 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080703000820.GA68573@bacardi> On Wed, Jul 02, 2008 at 03:16:27PM -0700, Curtis Penner wrote: > Let us take this further. > > Let's compare BSD to the Linux install solutions. Well, lets not, Linux > is so far ahead of BSD. Linux understands the user. > Some distros, perhaps, though I'd say that the fact that there is an overwhelming number of distros, with most of them doing things in complete different and incompatible ways,is an indication that the Linux community, in general, does not "understand the user" any more than the BSD community. That's not to say that I don't think there's a place for a few distros, just as there are a few different flavours of BSD. > BSD has a better overall core OS then the other UNIX flavors. The size > to capability is outstanding. Once you have the core OS on the system it > is rock steady and only getting better. The documentation is > outstanding. It is what others should look to. > > So what is wrong? > > It doesn't have the native 3rd party applications. Why? Not enough > users. Why? Because it is hard to get what you want unless you are tech > savvy. Could you explain what you means by "It doesn't have the native 3rd party applications." And it's certainly not hard to get what you want. The ports system has >18k ports and is extremely easy to use. Especially when you consider the quality of our documentation, which as you have rightly pointed out, is excellent. > > When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The > front-end is like something from the DOS days. You have to be tech > savvy to know what you want to do. You have to search out all the > variations of the applications (tedious and unnecessary) to get a full > package -- Examples: Postgres, PHP, etc. To add wireless (very common > these day), you better set aside as much time or more as doing the > initial install. > Noone is going to argue on the point of sysinstall. But as already mentioned, there are possible replacements in progress. Wireless can also be a little tricky, but I don't believe the situation is any different with Linux. As for the ports, I don't see what your point is. People who know what they require will have no trouble finding it, and if there's anyone out there who panics when confronted with the various versions of postgresql in ports, and doesn't know which to use... why would they be installing it in the first place? > Given that the system is rock solid, you think more people would develop > on it, at least secondarily. But no. Java - go fish. All the > development environments and features that go with it (Eclipse, NetBean, > Hibernation, Sturts, and so forth) are painful to get. You feel like a > rabbit jumping around, and then it most likely doesn't work. That is > such a turn off. > I can't comment much on these (don't do Java development) except to say that FreeBSD has good Java support, and that I've installed and used Eclipse on FreeBSD before without hassles. > As for the installs, to get an idea of how to package an install, look > at the current install packages that are from the Linux side. You don't > have to copy, but emulate. (Oh, the best out-of-the-box is Apple.) > FreeBSD has packages. They're not the best. They're definitely not the worst. > I have installed Linux, MacOS, HPUX, Solaris, Window (NT, XP, Vista), > and the BSDs, and I have found the BSDs to be so yesterday that there is > little in common with the rest. > FUD. FreeBSD is a stable, high performance, modern operating system suitable for server, desktop and laptop use (I do all three). A few parts of the system are due for an overhaul. > Porting, so that applications that matter go native, we need more > installs and more people on the systems. That means more installs to > laptops. The installs have to be seamless and complete. That mean > getting more Open Source people and companies to compile and distribute BSD. > Yes, that would be great. So if you want to see that, why are you spreading all this FUD? > I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click > with not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go > advance and do special custom work). > > > -Curtis frase -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080703/83212805/attachment.pgp From mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df at mired.org Thu Jul 3 00:54:31 2008 From: mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df at mired.org (Mike Meyer) Date: Thu Jul 3 00:54:34 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080702205415.0165f389@bhuda.mired.org> On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:16:27 -0700 Curtis Penner wrote: > BSD has a better overall core OS then the other UNIX flavors. I disagree, but that's another debate. BSD is still my desktop OS of choice. > So what is wrong? > > It doesn't have the native 3rd party applications. Why? Not enough > users. Why? Because it is hard to get what you want unless you are tech > savvy. Huh? The ports collection has nearly 19 thousand entries in it. Is there another OS with *anything* like that? The blastwave folks were recently bragging that they were going to hit 1800! Yeah, if you want *proprietary* tools, you lose. As far as I can tell, that kills you on three issues: Flash, high-end graphics performance, and virtualization tools. For pretty much everything else I've run into, we seem to do ok. > When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The > front-end is like something from the DOS days. You have to be tech > savvy to know what you want to do. You have to search out all the > variations of the applications (tedious and unnecessary) to get a full > package -- Examples: Postgres, PHP, etc. To add wireless (very common > these day), you better set aside as much time or more as doing the > initial install. I find this to be the case on *every* system. I've never managed to find a system that provided *everything* I needed in an install. So I inevitably wind up wading through a see of repositories and dependencies to get what I need. For GNU/Linux, that usually means installing the tools I need to *build* what I actually need. Tedious and unnecessary would be a step *up*. > Given that the system is rock solid, you think more people would develop > on it, at least secondarily. But no. Java - go fish. All the > development environments and features that go with it (Eclipse, NetBean, > Hibernation, Sturts, and so forth) are painful to get. You feel like a > rabbit jumping around, and then it most likely doesn't work. That is > such a turn off. Ok, I don't do Java (because I like OO programming and want to keep it that way!), but I found three of the four things in the ports tree (assuming that Sturts is actually Struts, anyway). Which means the packages should be there as well. > As for the installs, to get an idea of how to package an install, look > at the current install packages that are from the Linux side. You don't > have to copy, but emulate. (Oh, the best out-of-the-box is Apple.) I'm not sure the best out of the box is Apple, but I haven't installed new Sun hardware in a *long* time. But Apple boxes come out of the box installed - that's hard to beat. As for GNU/Linux, the only install that comes close to installing a usable system is Gentoo. The other all seem to want to compete with windows, and treat their users like idiots who need every choice made for them. > I have installed Linux, MacOS, HPUX, Solaris, Window (NT, XP, Vista), > and the BSDs, and I have found the BSDs to be so yesterday that there is > little in common with the rest. Hmm. Which Solaris did you use? SXCE b89 looks an awful lot like a FreeBSD install, except they do it under X with a GUI (so you need 3/4ths of a gig just to run the installer) - including progress messages to an xterm - instead of the console. 2008.05 looks amazingly like a GNU/Linux install - all pointy/clicky, no choices about what you want, you get 3 gig of lawn ornaments which I personally had no use for on the server in question (which is how I came to learn what an SXCE install looks like). Not to mention that after being installed, it's slower than Vista even when it's got more than twice the horsepower underneath it. > Porting, so that applications that matter go native, we need more > installs and more people on the systems. That means more installs to > laptops. The installs have to be seamless and complete. That mean > getting more Open Source people and companies to compile and distribute BSD. I believe we already have a bigger, better application repository than any other current Unix or Unix-like system. However, I can't find hard numbers for rpm or deb-based distributions repositories. But "rpms" or "debs" found scattered around the net aren't a "repository"; they won't work except against what they were build against, and trying to get them to is a *real* recipe for frustration. > I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click > with not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go > advance and do special custom work). Is it really that simple? If we had an installer that looked as pretty as a van gogh, and all you had to do was enter your country and postal code and it then installed the base system, you wouldn't be happy (I certainly wouldn't mind such a thing)? I suspect that what you *really* want - and what the GNU/Linux distros, and Solaris 2008.05, and OSX try to provide - is a system with everything you want pre-installed, without you having to figure it out how to use a package system or anything else that looks the least bit like work. Personally, no single system can do that for me. What I want on my desktop is different from what pretty much anyone else wants on their desktop is different from what I want on a router is different from what I want on a mail server is different from what I want on a web server is different from what I want on try-python.mired.org. Things that I can't do without on some are things that ask to be pwn'ed on others, and in some cases I want the same functionality from different tools on different systems. I don't care how familiar you are with a system, it's *far* easier to add the things you know you want to a solid base than it is to remove crap that will cause you headaches later from a distro whose design criteria was maximizing installations, hence checking off as many features on a checklist as possible. On a desktop box, unneeded tools are just a waste of space; on a server, they can be an open invitation to pwn your server. That said - yeah, our installer is old and primitive. But it'll run on almost nothing (3/4ths of a GIG just to run the INSTALLER!?!?!?). There are people working on improving it, but frankly, the needed improvements are largely cosmetic, not conceptual. Any replacement for the installer should require less work but not less smarts. It needs to ask questions, because the correct answer to every general question about what to install is "it depends on what you want it for." For people who just want to muck about with a desktop, there are a couple of FreeBSD distributions with live CD's and a plethora of applications installed, etc. That's the right way to go about attracting an audience from the desktop. FreeBSD is the easiest system I know of to tailor to my needs. So long as that remains true, it will remain my OS of choice. http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From aragon at phat.za.net Wed Jul 2 23:59:18 2008 From: aragon at phat.za.net (Aragon Gouveia) Date: Thu Jul 3 01:03:42 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080702233411.GA26065@phat.za.net> Hi, As just another FreeBSD user.... | By Curtis Penner | [ 2008-07-03 00:51 +0200 ] > When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The > front-end is like something from the DOS days. You have to be tech > savvy to know what you want to do. I respectfully disagree with your opinion of the installer. Contrary to your opinion, I cringe on the odd occasions that I have to install linux or windows. Sysinstall might have some quirks and look dated, but FreeBSD is the only OS I can install in less than 5-10 minutes AND still install only what I want the way I want it. I really hope the new installers that are in the pipeline don't change that. > You have to search out all the > variations of the applications (tedious and unnecessary) to get a full > package -- Examples: Postgres, PHP, etc. Again, disagree. Sounds like you don't like freedom of choice much. For me it's one of the best parts of FreeBSD's package management. > I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click > with not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go > advance and do special custom work). I'm not! If you don't care what is going on, why does it matter that you have FreeBSD installed? Pick something like PCBSD or even Ubuntu - as easy and thought free as it comes. Regards, Aragon From jan6146 at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 23:59:59 2008 From: jan6146 at gmail.com (Rob Lytle) Date: Thu Jul 3 01:03:42 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / thanks for responding Message-ID: <784966050807021659h5ba54a2dy9093f6e1ab76f297@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Sean, This is the first time I ever actually downloaded all 3 CD's so i didn't know what I was getting into. I had always just used the first CD for the initial install, then ports for everything else. Next time I will use the dvd. Actually that would have been perfect as I got one of those unusual 550kB/s connections from ftp, lol. But I decided this time to get as many packages as quickly as possible, then run portupgrade on them to get the latest versions. I just did a make buildworld and made the kernel. Now I'm waiting here to do the make installworld after I go shopping. Plus its so hot here in Oregon I have to put the fan on my Sony VAIO SZ460N/C laptop. Its small but overheats, esp when using the NVidea graphics, so I use the i810 instead. I'm having problems with portupgrade though. Something got screwed up so a bunch of package compiles are failing. Most all of KDE is in there but it wont start and doesn't even give error messages, even when started with the console. In contrast Windowmaker works fine, so that is what I'm using now. I got another copy of ports.tar.gz as perhaps the old copy was corrupted, so after world gets installed, I will try portupgrade again. Sincerely, Rob On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Sean Cavanaugh wrote: > > Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:23:48 -0700 > > From: jan6146@gmail.com > > To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; freebsd-current@freebsd.org > > CC: > > Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years > > > > > Hi All, > > > > My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998. > > > > 1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an > incredibly > > tedious miserable process. I had to switch out the CD's around 40 times. > > If you don't believe me, just mark a whole bunch of random packages after > > obtaining the 7.0 release CD's, ad then install. Its frustrating and > almost > > like Windows, except its a bit faster as replacing CD's is faster than > > reboots. > > > > 2. When installing any given package, if a dependency is already there , > > the package aborts and then goes though some loop where you have to press > > OK half a dozen times. Thats insane. > > > > I think the CD switching problem would be to install all the packages at > > once from CD1, then CD2, then CD3. As for the second case, I don't know > > enough about the infrastructure to suggest any thing except to perhaps > > comment that code in its entirety or put in switch to bypass already > > installed dependencies. > > > > I wish I knew more about your infrastructure to fix this myself. Is it > > written in Python? Thats the only language I'm not so rusty at. I've > > programmed in 5 languages, but that was long ago. I'm old. But someone > who > > knows the system could probably fix it fast. I think this is such an > > inherent infrastructure problem that has existed so long that a bug > report > > would be futile. > > > > Food for thought. Thanks, > > > This is the reason I install everything from ports. > > The packages were divided into understandable clusters to make them fit on > CDs. Perhaps you would benefit from getting the DVD ISO instead which has > everything together. Im sure someone on the list could provide you the link > for it or google for it. > > -Sean > > -- ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds (Ham radio videos) From jan6146 at gmail.com Thu Jul 3 00:11:48 2008 From: jan6146 at gmail.com (Rob Lytle) Date: Thu Jul 3 01:09:52 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <486C0928.8050607@yahoo.fr> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> <486C0928.8050607@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: <784966050807021711l3c738640gcc2579018b66d314@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for responding Curtis, I've used FreeBSD for a long time. In fact, when the Athlon first came out, FreeBSD would run with it, and SUSE would not. I thought that was a good sign that FreeBSD was top notch. Plus it booted faster than any computer and/or OS I had ever used. And the memory management was incredible. I hardly ever page out to swap, even running a number of apps at once. Nothing even slows down. But after I got this new laptop I never reinstalled it. Laptops are all made so crappy in China that every year or two something breaks, I get pissed, and I buy a new one. My old Dell had to have the motherboard replaced 5 times, 4 of those because the ethernet connector came loose and they had no choice but to put a new board in. All that for a $0.10 part. But I have problems just transferring hard drives because of SATA vs. IDE. I'm not sure how to get the data from one to another without a tape drive, which it seems is expensive. I dirched Ununtu as I found out my priority bug report was never acted on and is still there from a year a go, numbered up in the 20,000's. When you manually configure your Wifi, upon the next reboot it just goes out and randomly connects to any open access point- not my WAP encrypted one here. Even Vista can be set not to do that! Sincerely, Rob On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 4:03 PM, Antoine BRUNEL wrote: > I complete what Curtis wrote... > > How many times do you have to install a BSD system ??? even in case of > hell, you can still remove every ports/ package, juste leaving the CSH and > kernel layer, then install what you need again... try to remove the "glibc" > package from Linux (an Howto exists), and enjoy.... > > Compared to Windows / Linux (RedHat or Suse distributions), BSD still > offers a way to finely tune your system depending on your needs, instead of > putting gigabyte software in place, "just in case of", with tons of windows > managers, productivity tools, etc... > > BSD are still "harder" systems compared to other, but with more control on > what happens.... > > In conclusion, I can agree you in that the "sysinstall" soft is a bit > out-dated, but it respond on a need of a BSD philosophy: just installing a > working operating system. All the later tasks have to be done by "hands". > But that's exactly what I wanted when I replaced Windows / Debian to > FreeBSD: having a full control on my system. > > So, just another useless contribution..... > > > Curtis Penner a ?crit : > >> Let us take this further. >> >> Let's compare BSD to the Linux install solutions. Well, lets not, Linux >> is so far ahead of BSD. Linux understands the user. >> >> BSD has a better overall core OS then the other UNIX flavors. The size to >> capability is outstanding. Once you have the core OS on the system it is >> rock steady and only getting better. The documentation is outstanding. It >> is what others should look to. >> >> So what is wrong? >> >> It doesn't have the native 3rd party applications. Why? Not enough users. >> Why? Because it is hard to get what you want unless you are tech savvy. >> >> When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The >> front-end is like something from the DOS days. You have to be tech savvy to >> know what you want to do. You have to search out all the variations of the >> applications (tedious and unnecessary) to get a full package -- Examples: >> Postgres, PHP, etc. To add wireless (very common these day), you better set >> aside as much time or more as doing the initial install. >> >> Given that the system is rock solid, you think more people would develop >> on it, at least secondarily. But no. Java - go fish. All the development >> environments and features that go with it (Eclipse, NetBean, Hibernation, >> Sturts, and so forth) are painful to get. You feel like a rabbit jumping >> around, and then it most likely doesn't work. That is such a turn off. >> >> As for the installs, to get an idea of how to package an install, look at >> the current install packages that are from the Linux side. You don't have to >> copy, but emulate. (Oh, the best out-of-the-box is Apple.) >> >> I have installed Linux, MacOS, HPUX, Solaris, Window (NT, XP, Vista), and >> the BSDs, and I have found the BSDs to be so yesterday that there is little >> in common with the rest. >> >> Porting, so that applications that matter go native, we need more installs >> and more people on the systems. That means more installs to laptops. The >> installs have to be seamless and complete. That mean getting more Open >> Source people and companies to compile and distribute BSD. >> >> I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click with >> not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go advance and >> do special custom work). >> >> >> -Curtis >> >> >> Rob Lytle wrote: >> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998. >>> >>> 1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an >>> incredibly >>> tedious miserable process. I had to switch out the CD's around 40 times. >>> If you don't believe me, just mark a whole bunch of random packages after >>> obtaining the 7.0 release CD's, ad then install. Its frustrating and >>> almost >>> like Windows, except its a bit faster as replacing CD's is faster than >>> reboots. >>> >>> 2. When installing any given package, if a dependency is already there , >>> the package aborts and then goes though some loop where you have to >>> press >>> OK half a dozen times. Thats insane. >>> >>> I think the CD switching problem would be to install all the packages at >>> once from CD1, then CD2, then CD3. As for the second case, I don't know >>> enough about the infrastructure to suggest any thing except to perhaps >>> comment that code in its entirety or put in switch to bypass already >>> installed dependencies. >>> >>> I wish I knew more about your infrastructure to fix this myself. Is it >>> written in Python? Thats the only language I'm not so rusty at. I've >>> programmed in 5 languages, but that was long ago. I'm old. But someone >>> who >>> knows the system could probably fix it fast. I think this is such an >>> inherent infrastructure problem that has existed so long that a bug >>> report >>> would be futile. >>> >>> Food for thought. Thanks, >>> >>> Rob >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org >> " >> >> -- ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds (Ham radio videos) From aryeh.friedman at gmail.com Thu Jul 3 02:43:29 2008 From: aryeh.friedman at gmail.com (Aryeh M. Friedman) Date: Thu Jul 3 02:43:34 2008 Subject: setting up a local cvsup server Message-ID: <486C35C3.9070205@gmail.com> Currently I keep a local cvs/svn mirror of the public repo.... I update my sources via cvs not c(v)sup... I just got a laptop and I want it to use my desktop (where the local repo is) as a cvsup server.... what do I need to do (I manually update my local repo and want to continue with that practice so no need for cvsup-mirror or the method suggested in development(8)).... advice? -- Aryeh M. Friedman, FloSoft Systems http://www.flosoft-systems.com Java developer, unit testing, and operatring system development "Free Software != Free Beer" From Millenia2000 at hotmail.com Thu Jul 3 03:36:16 2008 From: Millenia2000 at hotmail.com (Sean Cavanaugh) Date: Thu Jul 3 03:36:20 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / thanks for responding In-Reply-To: <784966050807021659h5ba54a2dy9093f6e1ab76f297@mail.gmail.com> References: <784966050807021659h5ba54a2dy9093f6e1ab76f297@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: From: Rob Lytle Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 7:59 PM To: Sean Cavanaugh ; freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org ; freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / thanks for responding Thanks Sean, This is the first time I ever actually downloaded all 3 CD's so i didn't know what I was getting into. I had always just used the first CD for the initial install, then ports for everything else. Next time I will use the dvd. Actually that would have been perfect as I got one of those unusual 550kB/s connections from ftp, lol. But I decided this time to get as many packages as quickly as possible, then run portupgrade on them to get the latest versions. I just did a make buildworld and made the kernel. Now I'm waiting here to do the make installworld after I go shopping. Plus its so hot here in Oregon I have to put the fan on my Sony VAIO SZ460N/C laptop. Its small but overheats, esp when using the NVidea graphics, so I use the i810 instead. I'm having problems with portupgrade though. Something got screwed up so a bunch of package compiles are failing. Most all of KDE is in there but it wont start and doesn't even give error messages, even when started with the console. In contrast Windowmaker works fine, so that is what I'm using now. I got another copy of ports.tar.gz as perhaps the old copy was corrupted, so after world gets installed, I will try portupgrade again. Sincerely, Rob try 'portsnap'. it will maintain your /usr/ports folder for you. or use 'cvsup' on it. there are much better ways to maintain your ports folder without resorting to downloading the hideous ports.tar.gz file and extracting it. You also might want to remove and reinstall kde if its screwing up for you -Sean From jan6146 at gmail.com Thu Jul 3 04:28:51 2008 From: jan6146 at gmail.com (Rob Lytle) Date: Thu Jul 3 05:04:47 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war Message-ID: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, I'm sorry I started a kind of flame war. All I wanted was two things: 1. CD's that installed without being switched in and out dozens of times. That was fixed by the suggestion of using a DVD. I didn't even know the DVD install existed, but will do that next time. 2. Being able to use Sysinstall and not having it crash when a dependency is already present. Sometimes I like to use Sysinstall to install gigantic packages where the compile time is 26 hours, e.g KDE metapackage, and my notebook uses an Intel Core 2 Duo at 2Ghz or thereabout. That is one hell of a long compile time. For this request I will just have to wait for FreeBSD 10.0. Sincerely, Rob On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 5:54 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:16:27 -0700 > Curtis Penner wrote: > > > BSD has a better overall core OS then the other UNIX flavors. > > I disagree, but that's another debate. BSD is still my desktop OS of > choice. > > > So what is wrong? > > > > It doesn't have the native 3rd party applications. Why? Not enough > > users. Why? Because it is hard to get what you want unless you are tech > > savvy. > > Huh? The ports collection has nearly 19 thousand entries in it. Is > there another OS with *anything* like that? The blastwave folks were > recently bragging that they were going to hit 1800! > > Yeah, if you want *proprietary* tools, you lose. As far as I can tell, > that kills you on three issues: Flash, high-end graphics performance, > and virtualization tools. For pretty much everything else I've run > into, we seem to do ok. > > > When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The > > front-end is like something from the DOS days. You have to be tech > > savvy to know what you want to do. You have to search out all the > > variations of the applications (tedious and unnecessary) to get a full > > package -- Examples: Postgres, PHP, etc. To add wireless (very common > > these day), you better set aside as much time or more as doing the > > initial install. > > I find this to be the case on *every* system. I've never managed to > find a system that provided *everything* I needed in an install. So I > inevitably wind up wading through a see of repositories and > dependencies to get what I need. For GNU/Linux, that usually means > installing the tools I need to *build* what I actually > need. Tedious and unnecessary would be a step *up*. > > > Given that the system is rock solid, you think more people would develop > > on it, at least secondarily. But no. Java - go fish. All the > > development environments and features that go with it (Eclipse, NetBean, > > Hibernation, Sturts, and so forth) are painful to get. You feel like a > > rabbit jumping around, and then it most likely doesn't work. That is > > such a turn off. > > Ok, I don't do Java (because I like OO programming and want to keep it > that way!), but I found three of the four things in the ports tree > (assuming that Sturts is actually Struts, anyway). Which means the > packages should be there as well. > > > As for the installs, to get an idea of how to package an install, look > > at the current install packages that are from the Linux side. You don't > > have to copy, but emulate. (Oh, the best out-of-the-box is Apple.) > > I'm not sure the best out of the box is Apple, but I haven't installed > new Sun hardware in a *long* time. But Apple boxes come out of the box > installed - that's hard to beat. > > As for GNU/Linux, the only install that comes close to installing a > usable system is Gentoo. The other all seem to want to compete with > windows, and treat their users like idiots who need every choice made > for them. > > > I have installed Linux, MacOS, HPUX, Solaris, Window (NT, XP, Vista), > > and the BSDs, and I have found the BSDs to be so yesterday that there is > > little in common with the rest. > > Hmm. Which Solaris did you use? SXCE b89 looks an awful lot like a > FreeBSD install, except they do it under X with a GUI (so you need > 3/4ths of a gig just to run the installer) - including progress > messages to an xterm - instead of the console. 2008.05 looks amazingly > like a GNU/Linux install - all pointy/clicky, no choices about what > you want, you get 3 gig of lawn ornaments which I personally had no > use for on the server in question (which is how I came to learn what > an SXCE install looks like). Not to mention that after being > installed, it's slower than Vista even when it's got more than twice > the horsepower underneath it. > > > Porting, so that applications that matter go native, we need more > > installs and more people on the systems. That means more installs to > > laptops. The installs have to be seamless and complete. That mean > > getting more Open Source people and companies to compile and distribute > BSD. > > I believe we already have a bigger, better application repository than > any other current Unix or Unix-like system. However, I can't find hard > numbers for rpm or deb-based distributions repositories. But "rpms" or > "debs" found scattered around the net aren't a "repository"; they > won't work except against what they were build against, and trying to > get them to is a *real* recipe for frustration. > > > I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click > > with not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go > > advance and do special custom work). > > Is it really that simple? If we had an installer that looked as pretty > as a van gogh, and all you had to do was enter your country and postal > code and it then installed the base system, you wouldn't be happy (I > certainly wouldn't mind such a thing)? > > I suspect that what you *really* want - and what the GNU/Linux > distros, and Solaris 2008.05, and OSX try to provide - is a system > with everything you want pre-installed, without you having to figure > it out how to use a package system or anything else that looks the > least bit like work. > > Personally, no single system can do that for me. What I want on my > desktop is different from what pretty much anyone else wants on their > desktop is different from what I want on a router is different from > what I want on a mail server is different from what I want on a web > server is different from what I want on try-python.mired.org. Things > that I can't do without on some are things that ask to be pwn'ed on > others, and in some cases I want the same functionality from different > tools on different systems. > > I don't care how familiar you are with a system, it's *far* easier to > add the things you know you want to a solid base than it is to remove > crap that will cause you headaches later from a distro whose design > criteria was maximizing installations, hence checking off as many > features on a checklist as possible. On a desktop box, unneeded tools > are just a waste of space; on a server, they can be an open invitation > to pwn your server. > > That said - yeah, our installer is old and primitive. But it'll run on > almost nothing (3/4ths of a GIG just to run the > INSTALLER!?!?!?). There are people working on improving it, but > frankly, the needed improvements are largely cosmetic, not > conceptual. Any replacement for the installer should require less work > but not less smarts. It needs to ask questions, because the correct > answer to every general question about what to install is "it depends > on what you want it for." > > For people who just want to muck about with a desktop, there are a > couple of FreeBSD distributions with live CD's and a plethora of > applications installed, etc. That's the right way to go about > attracting an audience from the desktop. > > FreeBSD is the easiest system I know of to tailor to my needs. So long > as that remains true, it will remain my OS of choice. > > -- > Mike Meyer > http://www.mired.org/consulting.html > Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. > > O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org > -- ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds (Ham radio videos) From keramida at ceid.upatras.gr Thu Jul 3 06:44:33 2008 From: keramida at ceid.upatras.gr (Giorgos Keramidas) Date: Thu Jul 3 06:44:37 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war In-Reply-To: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> (Rob Lytle's message of "Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:28:50 -0700") References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87bq1fbh6j.fsf@kobe.laptop> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:28:50 -0700, "Rob Lytle" wrote: > 2. Being able to use Sysinstall and not having it crash when a > dependency is already present. Sometimes I like to use Sysinstall to > install gigantic packages where the compile time is 26 hours, e.g KDE > metapackage, and my notebook uses an Intel Core 2 Duo at 2Ghz or > thereabout. That is one hell of a long compile time. For this > request I will just have to wait for FreeBSD 10.0. Crashing is a bug. We should fix that. Having said this, I often use portupgrade for this sort of thing. After mounting the DVD, you can see what would be installed with # mount /cdrom # env PKG_PATH=/cdrom/packages/All portupgrade -n -N -PP postfix and then you can actually *run* the installation by removing the `-n' option from the portupgrade run. From rwatson at FreeBSD.org Thu Jul 3 08:28:33 2008 From: rwatson at FreeBSD.org (Robert Watson) Date: Thu Jul 3 08:28:40 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> Message-ID: <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008, Lothar Braun wrote: > Robert Watson wrote: > >> My primary concern about some of these replacement installer projects is >> that they've placed a strong focus on making them graphical -- I actually >> couldn't care less about GUIs (and I think they actually hurt my >> configurations, since I use serial consoles a lot), but what I do want is a >> very tight and efficient install process, which I feel sysinstall does >> badly on (not just for the reasons you specify). > > Hmm, how should a tight and efficient installation process look like in your > opinion? And what are the other points that are bad in systinstall? For me, it's really about minimizing the time to get to a generic install from a CD or DVD. Most of the time, I don't do a lot of customization during the install -- I configure machines using DHCP, I add most packages later, and I tend to use default disk layouts since my servers don't multi-boot and the defaults currently seem "reasonable". I don't like being asked many more questions than whether or not to enable sshd, and what to set the root password to. This means that I find our current distributions menu a bit inefficient (I don't want sub-menus, I just want checkboxes), and that the inconsistency in the handling of the space/enter/tab/cursor keys across different libdialog interfaces in the install is awkward. The current generic and express installs seem to capture a lot of my desire, in that I can get a box installed in <5m including actual time to write out the file systems, which is great. I really don't want to lose this with a new installer :-). Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From jonathan+freebsd-hackers at hst.org.za Thu Jul 3 08:35:14 2008 From: jonathan+freebsd-hackers at hst.org.za (Jonathan McKeown) Date: Thu Jul 3 08:35:18 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200807031000.11707.jonathan+freebsd-hackers@hst.org.za> I've picked out one or two of your complaints only. On Thursday 03 July 2008 00:16, Curtis Penner wrote: > Let us take this further. > > Let's compare BSD to the Linux install solutions. Well, lets not, Linux > is so far ahead of BSD. Linux understands the user. Really? I tried installing Kubuntu for my wife the other day. The installer didn't invite me to configure networking (Ethernet, not wireless), and once the base system was installed, I couldn't find either the appropriate option to configure it, nor any help at all, never mind anything as useful as the FreeBSD Handbook. Granted, that's partly through unfamiliarity with Linux, but user-friendly? Hollow laugh. > So what is wrong? > When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The > front-end is like something from the DOS days. Some of us do most of our installs on a serial console - even in the office, it's much easier than digging out spare monitors and keyboards just to build servers which are going to run headless anyway. It's pretty much essential on a machine in a remote datacentre. PLEASE, developers of shiny happy point-and-drool installers, give us new options by all means, but don't take away my headless install! (There's at least one blind sysadmin, on this list or possibly on -questions, who I suspect would strongly agree with me). > To add wireless (very common these day), you better set aside as much time > or more as doing the initial install. That was certainly true on the Kubuntu installation I did for my wife - I never did work out which packages I needed to download from where. On my FreeBSD 6.3 laptop, I put the network details in /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf. That's it. The drivers are part of the GENERIC kernel, and it all Just Works. I can start it manually by running wpa_supplicant followed by dhclient - I could just add a single line to /etc/rc.conf which would do that for me automatically. On a FreeBSD6 desktop/server, I put the network details in /etc/hostapd.conf, a couple of lines in /etc/rc.conf (enabling hostapd, and bridging the wireless card and the NIC), and loaded wlan_xauth in /boot/loader.conf (to get WPA), and had an access point. If that took anywhere near as long as the initial install that just shows how fast the initial install must have been! > Given that the system is rock solid, you think more people would develop > on it, at least secondarily. But no. Java - go fish. The problem with Java is that until recently, Sun wouldn't give the FreeBSD developers a licence to distribute it, so the ports system had to send each user to Sun's website to download it, which was tedious to say the least. By doing that, Sun put enough of a speed-bump in my way that I haven't bothered with Java. Blame Sun for that, though, not FreeBSD. > I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click > with not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go > advance and do special custom work). It will be a nice-to-have option (and sooner rather than later: there are people actively working on it). Just bear in mind it doesn't suit everyone. Many of us run FreeBSD because its competitors don't give us the same level of control over our systems. The downside of that is that we need to understand a bit more about how it works than we need for Windows or MacOS X. By all means try and make it easier to get started with FreeBSD - but not at the expense of the level of control a skilled admin has. I didn't mention Linux as a competitor because in my view, they are battling with the same issue - at least that's what I conclude from the huge number of distros across the spectrum from point-and-click installation for recovering Windows users, to building your entire system from source. Jonathan From gary.jennejohn at freenet.de Thu Jul 3 10:21:52 2008 From: gary.jennejohn at freenet.de (Gary Jennejohn) Date: Thu Jul 3 10:21:57 2008 Subject: setting up a local cvsup server In-Reply-To: <486C35C3.9070205@gmail.com> References: <486C35C3.9070205@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080703122149.0b245865@peedub.jennejohn.org> On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 22:13:23 -0400 "Aryeh M. Friedman" wrote: > Currently I keep a local cvs/svn mirror of the public repo.... I update > my sources via cvs not c(v)sup... I just got a laptop and I want it to > use my desktop (where the local repo is) as a cvsup server.... what do I > need to do (I manually update my local repo and want to continue with > that practice so no need for cvsup-mirror or the method suggested in > development(8)).... advice? > Actually it's no big deal to keep your CVS repository up-to-date with cvsup and in my experience it's the simplest way to do it. Anyway, in my experience here are the two most important things needed on the server: 1) you _absolutely must_ have these symbolic links set correctly! garyj:peedub:~:-bash:10> ll /usr/local/etc/cvsup/prefixes/ total 0 lrwx------ 1 root wheel 8 May 16 2007 FreeBSD-crypto.cvs -> /u2/ncvs lrwx------ 1 root wheel 8 May 16 2007 FreeBSD.cvs -> /u2/ncvs 2) then just start cvsupd with reasonable command line options. I use -C 2. Then just create supfiles on the client and point them at your server. It's really rather trivial. --- Gary Jennejohn From lothar at lobraun.de Thu Jul 3 08:23:09 2008 From: lothar at lobraun.de (Lothar Braun) Date: Thu Jul 3 11:28:44 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> Message-ID: <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> Robert Watson wrote: > My > primary concern about some of these replacement installer projects is > that they've placed a strong focus on making them graphical -- I > actually couldn't care less about GUIs (and I think they actually hurt > my configurations, since I use serial consoles a lot), but what I do > want is a very tight and efficient install process, which I feel > sysinstall does badly on (not just for the reasons you specify). Hmm, how should a tight and efficient installation process look like in your opinion? And what are the other points that are bad in systinstall? Regards, Lothar From hk at alogis.com Thu Jul 3 09:07:09 2008 From: hk at alogis.com (Holger Kipp) Date: Thu Jul 3 11:28:58 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <486C0928.8050607@yahoo.fr> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> <486C0928.8050607@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: <20080703085629.GA1590@intserv.int1.b.intern> Dear Antoine Brunel, I completely 100% agree. Actually I don't see the need for a new sysinstall. It does what it needs to do. I have seen the later RH- and SUSE-Installer, but I don't want them. What's the use of a graphical installer? The only thing endusers might need is the choice of installing all required packages for a Workstation (like X, OpenOffice, KDE with all the whistles (or GNOME if you like), Firefox, etc.). There is a metaport for this already available (or was some time ago), but I have never used it. Usually installation of FreeBSD (for me) is a server installation, so I don't need X or any of the other packages. So from my point of view: - if you think the default sysinstall software needs some improvements, go for it. Apart from fixing real bugs I don't see much need to change this. - don't make a graphical sysinstall thing - at least not as default. it would hurt all sysadmins that install anything remotely. It reminds me of the oracle installer translation from text-based to gui-based (a nightmare if you're not in the same lan). - if you have only one system to install, changing CDs is not a big deal. for current hardware, use a DVD. for mass installations, use fileserver installation (that's what I did, anyway). I am more than happy with sysinstall, have used it for years (starting with 2.2.8 actually) and don't want to see a colorful chingeling whistleblowing hard-to-maintain suitable for all graphics card gui installer. If you need something like this, use PC-BSD, MacOS X or even MS Windows or Linux, I say. That about my useless/worthless (or maybe 2cents) contribution Best regards, Holger Kipp On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 01:03:04AM +0200, Antoine BRUNEL wrote: > I complete what Curtis wrote... > > How many times do you have to install a BSD system ??? even in case of > hell, you can still remove every ports/ package, juste leaving the CSH > and kernel layer, then install what you need again... try to remove the > "glibc" package from Linux (an Howto exists), and enjoy.... > > Compared to Windows / Linux (RedHat or Suse distributions), BSD still > offers a way to finely tune your system depending on your needs, instead > of putting gigabyte software in place, "just in case of", with tons of > windows managers, productivity tools, etc... > > BSD are still "harder" systems compared to other, but with more control > on what happens.... > > In conclusion, I can agree you in that the "sysinstall" soft is a bit > out-dated, but it respond on a need of a BSD philosophy: just installing > a working operating system. All the later tasks have to be done by > "hands". But that's exactly what I wanted when I replaced Windows / > Debian to FreeBSD: having a full control on my system. > > So, just another useless contribution..... > > > Curtis Penner a ?crit : > >Let us take this further. > > > >Let's compare BSD to the Linux install solutions. Well, lets not, > >Linux is so far ahead of BSD. Linux understands the user. > > > >BSD has a better overall core OS then the other UNIX flavors. The > >size to capability is outstanding. Once you have the core OS on the > >system it is rock steady and only getting better. The documentation > >is outstanding. It is what others should look to. > > > >So what is wrong? > > > >It doesn't have the native 3rd party applications. Why? Not enough > >users. Why? Because it is hard to get what you want unless you are > >tech savvy. > > > >When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The > >front-end is like something from the DOS days. You have to be tech > >savvy to know what you want to do. You have to search out all the > >variations of the applications (tedious and unnecessary) to get a full > >package -- Examples: Postgres, PHP, etc. To add wireless (very common > >these day), you better set aside as much time or more as doing the > >initial install. > > > >Given that the system is rock solid, you think more people would > >develop on it, at least secondarily. But no. Java - go fish. All > >the development environments and features that go with it (Eclipse, > >NetBean, Hibernation, Sturts, and so forth) are painful to get. You > >feel like a rabbit jumping around, and then it most likely doesn't > >work. That is such a turn off. > > > >As for the installs, to get an idea of how to package an install, look > >at the current install packages that are from the Linux side. You > >don't have to copy, but emulate. (Oh, the best out-of-the-box is Apple.) > > > >I have installed Linux, MacOS, HPUX, Solaris, Window (NT, XP, Vista), > >and the BSDs, and I have found the BSDs to be so yesterday that there > >is little in common with the rest. > > > >Porting, so that applications that matter go native, we need more > >installs and more people on the systems. That means more installs to > >laptops. The installs have to be seamless and complete. That mean > >getting more Open Source people and companies to compile and > >distribute BSD. > > > >I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click > >with not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go > >advance and do special custom work). > > > > > >-Curtis > > > > > >Rob Lytle wrote: > >>Hi All, > >> > >>My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998. > >> > >>1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an > >>incredibly > >>tedious miserable process. I had to switch out the CD's around 40 > >>times. > >>If you don't believe me, just mark a whole bunch of random packages > >>after > >>obtaining the 7.0 release CD's, ad then install. Its frustrating and > >>almost > >>like Windows, except its a bit faster as replacing CD's is faster than > >>reboots. > >> > >>2. When installing any given package, if a dependency is already > >>there , > >>the package aborts and then goes though some loop where you have to > >>press > >>OK half a dozen times. Thats insane. > >> > >>I think the CD switching problem would be to install all the packages at > >>once from CD1, then CD2, then CD3. As for the second case, I don't know > >>enough about the infrastructure to suggest any thing except to perhaps > >>comment that code in its entirety or put in switch to bypass already > >>installed dependencies. > >> > >>I wish I knew more about your infrastructure to fix this myself. Is it > >>written in Python? Thats the only language I'm not so rusty at. I've > >>programmed in 5 languages, but that was long ago. I'm old. But > >>someone who > >>knows the system could probably fix it fast. I think this is such an > >>inherent infrastructure problem that has existed so long that a bug > >>report > >>would be futile. > >> > >>Food for thought. Thanks, > >> > >>Rob > >> > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > >To unsubscribe, send any mail to > >"freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From talon at lpthe.jussieu.fr Thu Jul 3 09:53:47 2008 From: talon at lpthe.jussieu.fr (Michel Talon) Date: Thu Jul 3 11:29:24 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years Message-ID: <20080703093306.GA14469@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Antoine BRUNEL wrote: > In conclusion, I can agree you in that the "sysinstall" soft is a bit > out-dated, but it respond on a need of a BSD philosophy: just installing > a working operating system. All the later tasks have to be done by > "hands". But that's exactly what I wanted when I replaced Windows / > Debian to FreeBSD: having a full control on my system. > > So, just another useless contribution..... Useless ... for you. Conversely, for me it is your drivel which is useless, and much worse harmful. The "full control" you are advocating is totally useless for almost everybody. On the other hand, while even well known FreeBSD developers concede that there are problems in the present installation (*) and packaging tools, and it is clear that these problems are harming FreeBSD adoption, there is a group of users, whose relative importance i don't know, but who are very vocal, and whose aim is to preserve the statu quo. What is lacking for FreeBSD is some sort of Ubuntu, which has built a great success on the solid basis of Debian, but working around the conservatism of the Debian nomenklatura. Maybe pcbsd will do the same, but is is not obvious at present. (*) even the author of said tools wrote from the beginning that these tools were quick hacks, not really adequate. The situation is much worse now, since the installation tool knows nothing about modern FreeBSD features, such as geom mirror, etc. , while the packaging tools, which worked OK with 5000 ports, show their limits with 18000 ports. -- Michel TALON From gavin at FreeBSD.org Thu Jul 3 11:34:36 2008 From: gavin at FreeBSD.org (Gavin Atkinson) Date: Thu Jul 3 11:34:40 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1215082862.32135.4.camel@buffy.york.ac.uk> On Wed, 2008-07-02 at 11:23 -0700, Rob Lytle wrote: > Hi All, > > My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998. > > 1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an incredibly > tedious miserable process. I had to switch out the CD's around 40 times. > If you don't believe me, just mark a whole bunch of random packages after > obtaining the 7.0 release CD's, ad then install. Its frustrating and almost > like Windows, except its a bit faster as replacing CD's is faster than > reboots. There's been a few reports of this (see e.g. PR misc/123632), but I've tried recreating it myself without much success. Do you happen to know roughly which packages you installed? I'd really like to fix it, but I need to be able to recreate it first... > 2. When installing any given package, if a dependency is already there , > the package aborts and then goes though some loop where you have to press > OK half a dozen times. Thats insane. I've not seen this either, but I'll see if I can recreate it in a couple of days. Do you happen to know if there is a PR about this issue? If not, is there any chance you could submit one with more details of the error messages? Thanks, Gaivn From v.rezkii at sam-solutions.net Thu Jul 3 11:39:41 2008 From: v.rezkii at sam-solutions.net (Uladzislau Rezki) Date: Thu Jul 3 11:39:43 2008 Subject: how can i get a file name knowing its descriptor? Message-ID: <200807031428.02286.v.rezkii@sam-solutions.net> Hi all, I've been writing a small kernel module, that provides information about modification of the filesystem to user_land/userspace through the character device. I'm using FreeBSD 4.10 So, my question is: Is there any way to get file name knowing its descriptor? static int xxx_write (struct proc *p, struct write_args *uap) { struct vnode *vn; struct file *file; int sys_error; /* do system call */ sys_error = write(p, uap); if (sys_error != 0) goto leave_call; /* get the file */ file = curproc->p_fd->fd_ofiles[uap->fd]; /* get the vnode */ vn = (struct vnode *) file->f_data; /* do we have a regular */ if (vn->v_type == VREG) { ... ... ... } As you can see we just know uap->fd. Thanks. -- Uladzislau Rezki From urezki at gmail.com Thu Jul 3 11:35:01 2008 From: urezki at gmail.com (Uladzislau Rezki) Date: Thu Jul 3 11:40:06 2008 Subject: how can i get file name knowing its descriptor? Message-ID: Hi all, I've been writing a small kernel module, that provides information about modification of the filesystem to user_land/userspace through the character device. I'm using FreeBSD 4.10 So, my question is: Is there any way to get file name knowing its descriptor? static int xxx_write (struct proc *p, struct write_args *uap) { struct vnode *vn; struct file *file; int sys_error; /* do system call */ sys_error = write(p, uap); if (sys_error != 0) goto leave_call; /* get the file */ file = curproc->p_fd->fd_ofiles[uap->fd]; /* get the vnode */ vn = (struct vnode *) file->f_data; /* do we have a regular */ if (vn->v_type == VREG) { ... ... ... } As you can see we just know uap->fd. BTW, it would be fine to get a few web resources concerning FreeBSD kernel programming. Thanks. -- Uladzislau Rezki From karimulla at krify.com Thu Jul 3 11:47:24 2008 From: karimulla at krify.com (karim sk) Date: Thu Jul 3 11:47:30 2008 Subject: kgdb error: Ignoring packet error, continuing.... Message-ID: <20080703044723.BD564B69@resin11.mta.everyone.net> Hi, I am trying to setup kgdb on serial console in freebsd. I have done the following steps. 1. Compile the kernel with the following options options DDB options KDB makeoptions DEBUG-g 2.Installed the kernel on the target machine. 3. Transferred the kernel.debug to host machine. 4. Modified the file /boot/device.hints in the target machine to have sio flags as hint.sio.0.at="isa" hint.sio.0.port="0X3F8" hint.sio.0.flags="0x80" hint.sio.0.irq="4" 5. Reboot the target machine. At the loader prompt type the following set comconsole_speed=9600 boot -d Then the target machine stops at ddb> prompt. 6.In the host machine type the following at kgdb prompt kgdb> set remotebaud 9600 kgdb> file kernel.debug kgdb> target remote /dev/cuad0 This is not able to establish the connection. It is giving following errors. Ignoring packet error, continuing... Ignoring packet error, continuing... Couldn't establish connection to remote target. Malformed response to offset query, timeout. Can any body tell why packet error is coming when kgdb is trying to establish the connection. Thanks in advance. Karim _________________________________________________________________ I use Krify Mail - http://mail.krify.com Get yourmail at Krify today! From danny at cs.huji.ac.il Thu Jul 3 12:21:16 2008 From: danny at cs.huji.ac.il (Danny Braniss) Date: Thu Jul 3 12:21:21 2008 Subject: serial console speed Message-ID: it seems that there is no way to change the speed/baudrate of the serial console, for example, by turning it off in /etc/ttys, and running tip(1) with different speeds has no effect, it always stays at the kernel configured speed. is this by design? danny From tevans.uk at googlemail.com Thu Jul 3 13:11:00 2008 From: tevans.uk at googlemail.com (Tom Evans) Date: Thu Jul 3 13:11:05 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <20080703093306.GA14469@lpthe.jussieu.fr> References: <20080703093306.GA14469@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <1215088954.35536.38.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2008-07-03 at 11:33 +0200, Michel Talon wrote: > Antoine BRUNEL wrote: > > > In conclusion, I can agree you in that the "sysinstall" soft is a bit > > out-dated, but it respond on a need of a BSD philosophy: just installing > > a working operating system. All the later tasks have to be done by > > "hands". But that's exactly what I wanted when I replaced Windows / > > Debian to FreeBSD: having a full control on my system. > > > > So, just another useless contribution..... > > > Useless ... for you. Conversely, for me it is your drivel which is > useless, and much worse harmful. The "full control" you are advocating > is totally useless for almost everybody. I disagree. Having never used FreeBSD, or any other BSD, I could install simply and quickly using sysinstall and the FreeBSD users handbook. Think it took about 1 hr total from install to gnome. Everything else I've wanted to do so far, and everything I'm planning to do (gmirror'd base, zfs for storage) has good documentation. > On the other hand, while > even well known FreeBSD developers concede that there are problems in > the present installation (*) and packaging tools, and it is clear that > these problems are harming FreeBSD adoption, there is a group of users, > whose relative importance i don't know, but who are very vocal, and > whose aim is to preserve the statu quo. What is lacking for FreeBSD is > some sort of Ubuntu, which has built a great success on the solid basis > of Debian, but working around the conservatism of the Debian > nomenklatura. Maybe pcbsd will do the same, but is is not obvious at > present. That might be great, but I'd really prefer that the current system of introducing well documented new features continues, rather than expend a lot of effort producing tools that people who won't/don't read documentation can use to administer their system without having a clue what they are doing. From the base of FreeBSD, I want commands like atacontrol, with excellent documentation. I don't want FreeNAS, or something like Windows Disk Management. > (*) even the author of said tools wrote from the beginning that these > tools were quick hacks, not really adequate. The situation is much worse > now, since the installation tool knows nothing about modern FreeBSD > features, such as geom mirror, etc. , while the packaging tools, which > worked OK with 5000 ports, show their limits with 18000 ports. Ports WFM. When I need a new port, I go install it. When I want to upgrade ports, I cvs up, and portupgrade. Every now and then I do a pkg_cutleaves to make sure only ports I still need are installed. I will probably get accused of an elitist attitude, but if one doesn't want to read and learn from lots of documentation, FreeBSD probably isn't the right choice. Personally, there's nothing that would make me want to use Linux/Windows (and unless a great deal has changed over the past 3 years, I doubt Linux is actually that user friendly. It probably doesn't confuse as much, due to the fancy idiot tools.) Tom -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080703/6ea0fe2a/attachment.pgp From ap00 at mail.ru Thu Jul 3 13:15:30 2008 From: ap00 at mail.ru (Anthony Pankov) Date: Thu Jul 3 13:15:33 2008 Subject: FreeBSD 6.3 deadlock (vm_map?) with DDB output In-Reply-To: <20080630231611.F0245F1817C@mx.npubs.com> References: <20080615112318.146C1F18512@mx.npubs.com> <200806180917.05689.jhb@freebsd.org> <20080630231611.F0245F1817C@mx.npubs.com> Message-ID: <1761178093.20080703165753@mail.ru> S> I changed the patch slightly to work with FreeBSD 6.3-RELEASE. That's S> attached, in case anyone needs this later. Can i apply this patch to 6.2-RELEASE? -- Best regards, Anthony mailto:ap00@mail.ru From vladimirt at PartyGaming.com Thu Jul 3 13:16:03 2008 From: vladimirt at PartyGaming.com (Vladimir Terziev) Date: Thu Jul 3 13:16:08 2008 Subject: List test. Please IGNORE! Message-ID: List test. Please IGNORE! From koitsu at FreeBSD.org Thu Jul 3 13:28:57 2008 From: koitsu at FreeBSD.org (Jeremy Chadwick) Date: Thu Jul 3 13:29:00 2008 Subject: serial console speed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080703132856.GA53637@eos.sc1.parodius.com> On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 03:21:14PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: > it seems that there is no way to change the speed/baudrate of the serial > console, for example, by turning it off in /etc/ttys, and running > tip(1) with different speeds has no effect, it always > stays at the kernel configured speed. > > is this by design? Yes. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From danny at cs.huji.ac.il Thu Jul 3 14:34:29 2008 From: danny at cs.huji.ac.il (Danny Braniss) Date: Thu Jul 3 14:34:34 2008 Subject: serial console speed In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 3 Jul 2008 06:28:56 -0700 . Message-ID: > On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 03:21:14PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: > > it seems that there is no way to change the speed/baudrate of the serial > > console, for example, by turning it off in /etc/ttys, and running > > tip(1) with different speeds has no effect, it always > > stays at the kernel configured speed. > > > > is this by design? > > Yes. why? to add some more 'issues', setting hint.sio.1.flags="0x10" does the redirection correctly but does not fix the speed to CONSPEED, and stays at 9600. (BTW, this used to work). is this by design too? :-) I am NOT trying to start any flame here, just that setting the serial console correctly is getting more difficult with each upgrade. setting the serial speed means, compiling correctly btx, pxeboot, kernel, ilo. now it seems that any info in /boot.config or /boot/loader.conf is also ignored. danny danny From pisymbol at gmail.com Thu Jul 3 14:52:14 2008 From: pisymbol at gmail.com (Alexander Sack) Date: Thu Jul 3 14:52:18 2008 Subject: FreeBSD 7 64 bits kernel crash debugging In-Reply-To: <1bd550a00807020950x24af0f8n6d2a9c66f14f1cfd@mail.gmail.com> References: <1bd550a00807020950x24af0f8n6d2a9c66f14f1cfd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3c0b01820807030752p212c3f17i236004c37bc39016@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 12:50 PM, Fernando Apestegu?a wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm experiencing several kernel crashes with the GENERIC kernel and > with custom kernels as well. One of my MP3 players seems to be > recognized, but if I disconnect it from the USB port (even without > mounting the device), I got a kernel crash. > > I've tried to follow the instructions at > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/developers-handbook/kerneldebug.html > I have dumpdev and dumpdir properly set to my swap partition (ad0s2b) > and to /var/crash. > > However, during the next boot, I got a message that indicates it is > looking for a dump on such device but it couldn't find any. > > How can I track this error? Have you enabled at least KDB/DDB debugger support so you can look at a stack trace ("t") and post this? This will at least give us/you some idea on what is crashing... Add minimally to your kernel build conf file: options DDB options KDB Rebuild, reboot, and test. I'm not sure why a crash dump is not working. Have you tried specifying your dump device in your kernel config file? Let us know, -aps From rwatson at FreeBSD.org Thu Jul 3 15:26:20 2008 From: rwatson at FreeBSD.org (Robert Watson) Date: Thu Jul 3 15:26:24 2008 Subject: how can i get a file name knowing its descriptor? In-Reply-To: <200807031428.02286.v.rezkii@sam-solutions.net> References: <200807031428.02286.v.rezkii@sam-solutions.net> Message-ID: <20080703162217.N43170@fledge.watson.org> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008, Uladzislau Rezki wrote: > I've been writing a small kernel module, that provides information about > modification of the filesystem to user_land/userspace through the character > device. I'm using FreeBSD 4.10 > > So, my question is: Is there any way to get file name knowing its > descriptor? Later versions of FreeBSD include a generic routine, vn_fullpath(9), to convert a vnode reference into a pathname. It's not a particularly reliable routine, in that it depends on the name cache, but it does work in most cases. FreeBSD 4.x includes textvp_fullpath(9), which became the foundation for that routine in later versions; it generates the path to the vnode used for the text of a process, but could easily be generalized in much the same way vn_fullpath(9) has been to return the pathname for arbitrary vnodes. Be aware that pathnames are very much ephemeral in the UNIX design -- vnodes can and do have one name, no names, or many names, and generating a name for an arbitrary node wasn't part of the design requirements, so is quite difficult to do; likewise, not all file systems use the name cache well or at all. If this is just for debugging purposes, vn_fullpath(9) will do the trick, though, much of the time. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge > > static int > xxx_write (struct proc *p, struct write_args *uap) > { > struct vnode *vn; > struct file *file; > int sys_error; > > /* do system call */ > sys_error = write(p, uap); > if (sys_error != 0) > goto leave_call; > > /* get the file */ > file = curproc->p_fd->fd_ofiles[uap->fd]; > /* get the vnode */ > vn = (struct vnode *) file->f_data; > > /* do we have a regular */ > if (vn->v_type == VREG) { > ... > ... > ... > } > > As you can see we just know uap->fd. > > Thanks. > > -- > Uladzislau Rezki > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From koitsu at FreeBSD.org Thu Jul 3 15:33:29 2008 From: koitsu at FreeBSD.org (Jeremy Chadwick) Date: Thu Jul 3 15:33:33 2008 Subject: serial console speed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080703153329.GA58662@eos.sc1.parodius.com> On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 05:34:27PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 03:21:14PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: > > > it seems that there is no way to change the speed/baudrate of the serial > > > console, for example, by turning it off in /etc/ttys, and running > > > tip(1) with different speeds has no effect, it always > > > stays at the kernel configured speed. > > > > > > is this by design? > > > > Yes. > > why? > > to add some more 'issues', setting > hint.sio.1.flags="0x10" > does the redirection correctly but does not fix the speed to CONSPEED, and > stays at 9600. (BTW, this used to work). The 9600 limitation is out-of-the-box. Despite what may seem logical, in my experiences the console serial port speed on FreeBSD is "limited" to a maximum of 9600bps unless you either use the -S flag in /boot.config (e.g. -S115200), or loader.conf variables to adjust the speed. Others will have to answer your remaining questions. > setting the serial speed means, > compiling correctly btx, pxeboot, kernel, ilo. > now it seems that any info in /boot.config or /boot/loader.conf is also > ignored. This part is flat out incorrect. You no longer have to rebuild anything, you can simply place -S115200 in /boot.config and it will work. I know, because every single one of our production servers (RELENG_6 through RELENG_7) use this. We **do not** rebuild boot blocks. Please read this document for my findings. http://jdc.parodius.com/freebsd/pxeboot_serial_install.html -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From kientzle at freebsd.org Thu Jul 3 16:00:45 2008 From: kientzle at freebsd.org (Tim Kientzle) Date: Thu Jul 3 16:00:49 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <20080703085629.GA1590@intserv.int1.b.intern> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> <486C0928.8050607@yahoo.fr> <20080703085629.GA1590@intserv.int1.b.intern> Message-ID: <486CEEEF.8030808@freebsd.org> Holger Kipp wrote: > > I completely 100% agree. Actually I don't see the need for a new > sysinstall. It does what it needs to do. I have seen the later > RH- and SUSE-Installer, but I don't want them. What's the use of > a graphical installer? One big problem with the current installer: The current keyboard interaction is quite mystifying to new users. I taught a FreeBSD class for a while where I watched every single person stumble just trying to figure out how to select choices in the installer menus. I don't think a graphical installer is necessarily the answer to this. Simply obeying long-established conventions for keyboard usage (ENTER selects the thing under the cursor, for instance, instead of having to TAB to the "OK" button first) would go a long ways. Tim From ravi.murty at intel.com Thu Jul 3 16:26:05 2008 From: ravi.murty at intel.com (Murty, Ravi) Date: Thu Jul 3 16:26:08 2008 Subject: calcru question Message-ID: Hello All, I have a rather simple question. I am running the 6.2 kernel and calru is called when top is run in a loop. One of the things calcru does is walk to threads of a process and checks if the thread is running and if it asserts that its tdoncpu field be anything but NOCPU. In our case, one in a great while, this assertion fails and the kernel panics. The assertion makes perfect sense, but I can't seem to figure out how this can be happening. The td->td_oncpu field is set to NOCPU when the thread is being kicked off a CPU (sched_switc()) which means it is not running and all of this happens with sched_lock held which calcru also grabs. Thanks, Ravi From rainer at ultra-secure.de Thu Jul 3 15:50:19 2008 From: rainer at ultra-secure.de (Rainer Duffner) Date: Thu Jul 3 16:27:44 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> Message-ID: <486CEEF1.9040702@ultra-secure.de> Lothar Braun schrieb: > Robert Watson wrote: >> My primary concern about some of these replacement installer projects >> is that they've placed a strong focus on making them graphical -- I >> actually couldn't care less about GUIs (and I think they actually >> hurt my configurations, since I use serial consoles a lot), but what >> I do want is a very tight and efficient install process, which I feel >> sysinstall does badly on (not just for the reasons you specify). > > Hmm, how should a tight and efficient installation process look like > in your opinion? And what are the other points that are bad in > systinstall? > Mass-installation via PXE-booting is a mess (how can you have to pack the install.cfg file into the mfsroot diskimage???). Take a look at kickstart+cobbler from RedHat for a system with some thought behind this process. I don't care the least about GUI or not GUI. I'd like to to able to deploy them as seamlessly as the CentOS/RHEL boxes. Rainer From avg at icyb.net.ua Thu Jul 3 16:29:34 2008 From: avg at icyb.net.ua (Andriy Gapon) Date: Thu Jul 3 16:29:39 2008 Subject: public svn (ro) access? Message-ID: <486CF9C5.6000604@icyb.net.ua> Is there already a way for public read-only svn access to FreeBSD src repository? -- Andriy Gapon From brooks at freebsd.org Thu Jul 3 16:35:48 2008 From: brooks at freebsd.org (Brooks Davis) Date: Thu Jul 3 16:35:49 2008 Subject: public svn (ro) access? In-Reply-To: <486CF9C5.6000604@icyb.net.ua> References: <486CF9C5.6000604@icyb.net.ua> Message-ID: <20080703163615.GA20685@lor.one-eyed-alien.net> On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 07:09:41PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: > > Is there already a way for public read-only svn access to FreeBSD src > repository? svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/ -- Brooks -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080703/2441c2f7/attachment.pgp From avg at icyb.net.ua Thu Jul 3 16:40:51 2008 From: avg at icyb.net.ua (Andriy Gapon) Date: Thu Jul 3 16:40:56 2008 Subject: public svn (ro) access? In-Reply-To: <20080703163615.GA20685@lor.one-eyed-alien.net> References: <486CF9C5.6000604@icyb.net.ua> <20080703163615.GA20685@lor.one-eyed-alien.net> Message-ID: <486D0110.8030500@icyb.net.ua> on 03/07/2008 19:36 Brooks Davis said the following: > On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 07:09:41PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: >> Is there already a way for public read-only svn access to FreeBSD src >> repository? > > svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/ > Thank you! The branch/tag hierarchy organization is quite nice. What are the plans for (regional) mirrors? -- Andriy Gapon From lothar at lobraun.de Thu Jul 3 16:56:46 2008 From: lothar at lobraun.de (Lothar Braun) Date: Thu Jul 3 16:56:56 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> Message-ID: <486D04CE.6080101@lobraun.de> Robert Watson wrote: > On Thu, 3 Jul 2008, Lothar Braun wrote: > >> Robert Watson wrote: >> >>> My primary concern about some of these replacement installer projects >>> is that they've placed a strong focus on making them graphical -- I >>> actually couldn't care less about GUIs (and I think they actually >>> hurt my configurations, since I use serial consoles a lot), but what >>> I do want is a very tight and efficient install process, which I feel >>> sysinstall does badly on (not just for the reasons you specify). >> >> Hmm, how should a tight and efficient installation process look like >> in your opinion? And what are the other points that are bad in >> systinstall? > > For me, it's really about minimizing the time to get to a generic > install from a CD or DVD. Most of the time, I don't do a lot of > customization during the install -- I configure machines using DHCP, I > add most packages later, and I tend to use default disk layouts since my > servers don't multi-boot and the defaults currently seem "reasonable". > > I don't like being asked many more questions than whether or not to > enable sshd, and what to set the root password to. This means that I > find our current distributions menu a bit inefficient (I don't want > sub-menus, I just want checkboxes), and that the inconsistency in the > handling of the space/enter/tab/cursor keys across different libdialog > interfaces in the install is awkward. The current generic and express > installs seem to capture a lot of my desire, in that I can get a box > installed in <5m including actual time to write out the file systems, > which is great. I really don't want to lose this with a new installer :-). What about having two utilities for the installation process? Something like a very small (non-gui/non-X) version of "sysinstall" that just installs a base system and only has the functionality to - partition/label a disk - configure the network (if needed for installation) - install the base system (or parts of it) - install a boot manager and a second utility "sysconf" that provides the other stuff like post installation system configuration (sshd, mouse), installing packages, etc. The second utility could have an X-based GUI without disturbing the installation process of serial console users or people that don't like X on their machines. Would that be a good idea? Best regards, Lothar From brooks at freebsd.org Thu Jul 3 17:10:30 2008 From: brooks at freebsd.org (Brooks Davis) Date: Thu Jul 3 17:10:33 2008 Subject: public svn (ro) access? In-Reply-To: <486D0110.8030500@icyb.net.ua> References: <486CF9C5.6000604@icyb.net.ua> <20080703163615.GA20685@lor.one-eyed-alien.net> <486D0110.8030500@icyb.net.ua> Message-ID: <20080703171058.GB20685@lor.one-eyed-alien.net> On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 07:40:48PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: > on 03/07/2008 19:36 Brooks Davis said the following: > > On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 07:09:41PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: > >> Is there already a way for public read-only svn access to FreeBSD src > >> repository? > > > > svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/ > > > > Thank you! > The branch/tag hierarchy organization is quite nice. > > What are the plans for (regional) mirrors? Nothing yet beyond "they will exist". -- Brooks -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080703/87e34255/attachment.pgp From stephen at math.missouri.edu Thu Jul 3 18:02:01 2008 From: stephen at math.missouri.edu (Stephen Montgomery-Smith) Date: Thu Jul 3 18:02:06 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <486D04CE.6080101@lobraun.de> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> <486D04CE.6080101@lobraun.de> Message-ID: <486D0AE9.5010906@math.missouri.edu> Lothar Braun wrote: > What about having two utilities for the installation process? Something > like a very small (non-gui/non-X) version of "sysinstall" that just > installs a base system and only has the functionality to > > - partition/label a disk > - configure the network (if needed for installation) > - install the base system (or parts of it) > - install a boot manager > > and a second utility "sysconf" that provides the other stuff like post > installation system configuration (sshd, mouse), installing packages, > etc. The second utility could have an X-based GUI without disturbing the > installation process of serial console users or people that don't like X > on their machines. > > Would that be a good idea? Why not leave "sysconf" as a curses based interface? To my mind, the difference between X-based and curses is cosmetic. (Plus one of "sysconf"s duties will be to install X, so it would be a bit self-referential.) Next, it seemed to me that the OP's main complaint was that he had to change the CD's about 40 times when installing packages. Why not just fix that? From julian at elischer.org Thu Jul 3 18:03:46 2008 From: julian at elischer.org (Julian Elischer) Date: Thu Jul 3 18:03:51 2008 Subject: how can i get a file name knowing its descriptor? In-Reply-To: <200807031428.02286.v.rezkii@sam-solutions.net> References: <200807031428.02286.v.rezkii@sam-solutions.net> Message-ID: <486D1497.3020206@elischer.org> Uladzislau Rezki wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been writing a small kernel module, that provides information about > modification of the filesystem to user_land/userspace through the > character device. I'm using FreeBSD 4.10 > > So, my question is: Is there any way to get file name knowing its descriptor? well, not really, at least not the name by which it was looked up. you MIGHT (sometimes) be able to use the directory name cache to work it out.. At one stage it was possible to do this for some percentage of the files but I dont remember if it was possible in 4.x. the idea is that you can find the name and do '..' lookups in the name cache.. i.e. fid if there is a name with your inode number, then get the directory inode number from that and then look up .. with that inode number etc.etc. but: I dont remember if we store ".." in the name cache these days (I remember some movement on this over the years) and Not all of the path to root might be there.. let me know if you work it out :-) > > static int > xxx_write (struct proc *p, struct write_args *uap) > { > struct vnode *vn; > struct file *file; > int sys_error; > > /* do system call */ > sys_error = write(p, uap); > if (sys_error != 0) > goto leave_call; > > /* get the file */ > file = curproc->p_fd->fd_ofiles[uap->fd]; > /* get the vnode */ > vn = (struct vnode *) file->f_data; > > /* do we have a regular */ > if (vn->v_type == VREG) { > ... > ... > ... > } > > As you can see we just know uap->fd. > > Thanks. > > -- > Uladzislau Rezki > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From tim at clewlow.org Thu Jul 3 18:37:31 2008 From: tim at clewlow.org (Tim Clewlow) Date: Thu Jul 3 18:37:34 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <486D04CE.6080101@lobraun.de> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> <486D04CE.6080101@lobraun.de> Message-ID: <52853.192.168.1.10.1215110248.squirrel@192.168.1.100> > Robert Watson wrote: >> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008, Lothar Braun wrote: >> >>> Robert Watson wrote: >>> >>>> My primary concern about some of these replacement installer >>>> projects >>>> is that they've placed a strong focus on making them graphical >>>> -- I >>>> actually couldn't care less about GUIs (and I think they >>>> actually >>>> hurt my configurations, since I use serial consoles a lot), but >>>> what >>>> I do want is a very tight and efficient install process, which I >>>> feel >>>> sysinstall does badly on (not just for the reasons you specify). >>> >>> Hmm, how should a tight and efficient installation process look >>> like >>> in your opinion? And what are the other points that are bad in >>> systinstall? >> >> For me, it's really about minimizing the time to get to a generic >> install from a CD or DVD. Most of the time, I don't do a lot of >> customization during the install -- I configure machines using >> DHCP, I >> add most packages later, and I tend to use default disk layouts >> since my >> servers don't multi-boot and the defaults currently seem >> "reasonable". >> >> I don't like being asked many more questions than whether or not >> to >> enable sshd, and what to set the root password to. This means >> that I >> find our current distributions menu a bit inefficient (I don't >> want >> sub-menus, I just want checkboxes), and that the inconsistency in >> the >> handling of the space/enter/tab/cursor keys across different >> libdialog >> interfaces in the install is awkward. The current generic and >> express >> installs seem to capture a lot of my desire, in that I can get a >> box >> installed in <5m including actual time to write out the file >> systems, >> which is great. I really don't want to lose this with a new >> installer :-). > > What about having two utilities for the installation process? > Something > like a very small (non-gui/non-X) version of "sysinstall" that just > installs a base system and only has the functionality to > > - partition/label a disk > - configure the network (if needed for installation) > - install the base system (or parts of it) > - install a boot manager > > and a second utility "sysconf" that provides the other stuff like > post > installation system configuration (sshd, mouse), installing > packages, > etc. The second utility could have an X-based GUI without disturbing > the > installation process of serial console users or people that don't > like X > on their machines. > > Would that be a good idea? > > Best regards, > Lothar I understand the desire to have an automated installer to make things real easy for first time installation for new users. But many people, including myself, will want to retain the current ability to specify exactly what we want as well. So, why not have a single menu at the start with 2 options: 1 - automatic desktop install (new user) 2 - traditional installer (veteran user) Perhaps the automatic installer can just use whatever disk space it finds (with suitable warnings) and attempt to install everything, ie equivalent of choosing All at the 'select distributions' stage. Maybe even do DHCP for net config. This would give a first time user a working system with a nice shiny X to make them feel good about choosing FreeBSD. Yes, I know they could just go to pcbsd, but I would prefer to have a new user at least attempt to learn proper sysadmin skills on vanilla FreeBSD. And if a new user gives up just because the installer is too confusing (especially the partitioner - it is wonderfully powerful, but it does take a bit of getting used to) then I think that is a shame. My cents. Tim. This email has been checked for viruses. It has sufficient. From dougb at FreeBSD.org Thu Jul 3 19:16:15 2008 From: dougb at FreeBSD.org (Doug Barton) Date: Thu Jul 3 19:16:18 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <486CEEEF.8030808@freebsd.org> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> <486C0928.8050607@yahoo.fr> <20080703085629.GA1590@intserv.int1.b.intern> <486CEEEF.8030808@freebsd.org> Message-ID: <486D2579.1080400@FreeBSD.org> Tim Kientzle wrote: > I don't think a graphical installer is necessarily > the answer to this. Simply obeying long-established > conventions for keyboard usage (ENTER selects the > thing under the cursor, for instance, instead of > having to TAB to the "OK" button first) would go > a long ways. The version of dialog we have in the system is prehistoric. The newer version is a lot better in the POLA department, and $SOMEONE was working on an update, but I don't know what happened to that effort. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From dougb at FreeBSD.org Thu Jul 3 19:23:39 2008 From: dougb at FreeBSD.org (Doug Barton) Date: Thu Jul 3 19:23:43 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <486D2738.7020709@FreeBSD.org> Mike Makonnen has some very interesting ideas on this topic: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2007-December/081400.html FWIW, I think that there are 3 basic requirements for a new installer: 1. It should be library-based and therefore be capable of supporting at least a few different UIs (see above). 2. At least one of those UIs should be functional over a standard serial console. 3. It should be scriptable. hth, Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From stephen at math.missouri.edu Thu Jul 3 20:13:11 2008 From: stephen at math.missouri.edu (Stephen Montgomery-Smith) Date: Thu Jul 3 20:13:15 2008 Subject: time used by a thread Message-ID: <486D32A2.6030608@math.missouri.edu> I want to use getrusage to see how much time a program is using. But this is a multithreaded program, and I just want the time taken by that particular thread! I know this info must be available somewhere, because top -H seems to provide it. But getrusage seems to give the total rusage for the whole program, not just the thread. Any ideas? I would especially appreciate a portable solution that works for OS other than FreeBSD (e.g. linux, etc as well). I tried "apropos thread | grep usage". From fbsd06 at mlists.homeunix.com Thu Jul 3 21:48:35 2008 From: fbsd06 at mlists.homeunix.com (RW) Date: Thu Jul 3 21:48:43 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / thanks for responding In-Reply-To: References: <784966050807021659h5ba54a2dy9093f6e1ab76f297@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080703223208.700c8689@gumby.homeunix.com.> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:36:09 -0400 "Sean Cavanaugh" wrote: > This is the first time I ever actually downloaded all 3 CD's so i > didn't know what I was getting into. I had always just used the > first CD for the initial install, then ports for everything else. > Next time I will use the dvd. Actually that would have been perfect > as I got one of those unusual 550kB/s connections from ftp, lol. > > But I decided this time to get as many packages as quickly as > possible, then run portupgrade on them to get the latest versions. I think it might be easier to use pkg_add -r to get up-to-date 7-stable packages From dillon at apollo.backplane.com Thu Jul 3 21:55:38 2008 From: dillon at apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Thu Jul 3 21:55:42 2008 Subject: how can i get a file name knowing its descriptor? References: <200807031428.02286.v.rezkii@sam-solutions.net> <486D1497.3020206@elischer.org> Message-ID: <200807032155.m63LtQwY092981@apollo.backplane.com> :well, not really, at least not the name by which it was looked up. :you MIGHT (sometimes) be able to use the directory name cache to work :it out.. At one stage it was possible to do this for some percentage :of the files but I dont remember if it was possible in 4.x. : :the idea is that you can find the name and do '..' lookups in the name :cache.. i.e. fid if there is a name with your inode number, :then get the directory inode number from that and then look up .. :with that inode number etc.etc. but: : :I dont remember if we store ".." in the name cache these days :(I remember some movement on this over the years) :and :Not all of the path to root might be there.. : :let me know if you work it out :-) It's rather a mess. There are several parent directory linkages but FreeBSD uses a non-deterministic namecache architecture so sometimes it simply is not possible to backtrack the directory. There are three major elements: vp->v_dd is usually only populated for directory vnodes and not for non-directory files so using it to traverse ".." from a non-directory (aka from a file) generally will not work. It can be NULL (and quite often is), even for a directory vnode if I remember right, typically causing the caller to issue a VOP_LOOKUP() of "..". The namecache structure has a nc_dvp field which can typically be used at an end point (non-directory) to access the directory, assuming you can locate the namecache structure associated with the vnode you wish to construct the path for. And there is vp->v_cache_dst which is a list of namecache structures associated with the vnode, and vp->v_cache_src which associates a directory vnode with a list of children (namecache structures). All three can be empty. It is usually possible to reconstruct the path backwards if you can locate a directory vnode. Doing it from a non-directory vnode is more problematic as you have to rely on the existance of a cache linkage that gives you the directory, and you can then work up the chain based on that. VOP_LOOKUP() of ".." only works from a directory vnode. -- It is possible to store more deterministic information, there is really no underlying limitation to doing so other then NFS. It requires passing all changes, such as renames and unlinks, through the namecache instead of simply invalidating the namecache. Once that is done each file pointer (struct file), and cdir, rdir, and jdir in (struct filedesc), need an additional field which points to a persistent namecache entry representing the file. When you are vnode-relative you have no idea which namecache entry the potentially hardlinked file was accessed through. If you store the ncp reference separately, however, you know exactly which namecache entry, and hence which path, the hardlinked file was accessed through. Such a feature also makes implementation of NULLFS style overlays ridiculously easy because you no longer need to alias the vnode structure. When the vnode structure no longer needs to be aliased all the related hacks to deal with aliased vnode structures (such as accessing the related VM object, and special- casing the locking) can also be ripped out. -Matt From igor at hybrid-lab.co.uk Thu Jul 3 23:07:06 2008 From: igor at hybrid-lab.co.uk (Igor Mozolevsky) Date: Thu Jul 3 23:07:09 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <486D2738.7020709@FreeBSD.org> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486D2738.7020709@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: 2008/7/3 Doug Barton : > 1. It should be library-based and therefore be capable of supporting at > least a few different UIs (see above). > 2. At least one of those UIs should be functional over a standard serial > console. > 3. It should be scriptable. I was thinking of doing it, but nobody provided any constructive ideas and a lot of other installers started popping up, like the bsdinstaller et al, so I wasn't gonna waste any time on that front, and instead just ended up with a massive script that 'works for me'(TM) which does funky things like geom and ccache/distcc world build of the system it's installing onto. I had the first req. up and kind of expanded it into pretty cool stuff that essentially allowed the whole of system to be managed by providing custom plugins, but the monolithic world makes things a lot difficult to make the installer fancy. I'll happily revive the project if it's not going to be a total waste of time (read: others will be interested in contributing ideas and testing it). Cheers, Igor From talon at lpthe.jussieu.fr Thu Jul 3 21:21:05 2008 From: talon at lpthe.jussieu.fr (Michel Talon) Date: Thu Jul 3 23:24:06 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years Message-ID: <20080703212100.GA16598@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Doug Barton wrote: > Mike Makonnen has some very interesting ideas on this topic: > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2007-December/081400.html > > FWIW, I think that there are 3 basic requirements for a new installer: > > 1. It should be library-based and therefore be capable of supporting > at least a few different UIs (see above). > 2. At least one of those UIs should be functional over a standard > serial console. > 3. It should be scriptable I agree completely with these comments. Much less with the argument of Mike Makonnen, to the point that using a scripting language in the front end (lua for the bsdinstaller) is bad. Using a sensible scripting language (python, lua, something simple and readable) would ensure that a lot of people can contribute effectively and that the program can evolve easily. The argument that there sould be no external dependency seems to me inspired by the NIH syndrom. Important points would be to solve the long standing problems with sysinstall internal fdisk and disklabel program: namely the bogus geometry problems with fdisk and the 16 sectors offset for partition a. A bonus would be support for "alien" partitioning such as extended partitions. An other very important problem would be to support modern FreeBSD, such as "virtual" devices created by GEOM, etc. As other people mentioned there are inconsistencies in the use of keyboard keys, and scripted installs are very poor, compared for example to RedHat anaconda. Personnally i like a curses interface, like the one of sysinstall, but a simple shell script like in OpenBSD could also do the job for the minimalist people, while a graphical installer running on top of a live CD, like in many Linux distributions, Ubuntu, etc. could be envisioned. The DragonFlyBSD installer runs on top of a live CD, this is the easiest way to have a full featured installer, but this requires a machine with sufficient RAM. Anyways all those possibilities point to the soundness of your propositions 1) and 2). -- Michel TALON From babkin at verizon.net Thu Jul 3 21:37:02 2008 From: babkin at verizon.net (Sergey Babkin) Date: Thu Jul 3 23:29:18 2008 Subject: time used by a thread Message-ID: <26495768.1230901215121011453.JavaMail.root@vms126.mailsrvcs.net> >I want to use getrusage to see how much time a program is using. But >this is a multithreaded program, and I just want the time taken by that >particular thread! > >I know this info must be available somewhere, because top -H seems to >provide it. But getrusage seems to give the total rusage for the whole >program, not just the thread. > >Any ideas? I would especially appreciate a portable solution that works >for OS other than FreeBSD (e.g. linux, etc as well). On Linux and Solaris it can be done by reading the /proc filesystem. Probably on FreeBSD too, haven't tried. But it's different on each OS. -SB From oberman at es.net Thu Jul 3 22:07:15 2008 From: oberman at es.net (Kevin Oberman) Date: Thu Jul 3 23:29:36 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 02 Jul 2008 21:28:50 PDT." <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> > Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:28:50 -0700 > From: "Rob Lytle" > Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org > > Hi All, > > I'm sorry I started a kind of flame war. All I wanted was two things: 1. > CD's that installed without being switched in and out dozens of times. That > was fixed by the suggestion of using a DVD. I didn't even know the DVD > install existed, but will do that next time. You call this a flame war? It's been pretty civil and there are no scorch marks on my display. I agree that the disk swapping is not a good thing, but I simply avoid it by never installing packages from sysinstall. I only use sysinstall for FreeBSD. Once I have FreeBSD installed, I update my ports tree with csup (but portsnap is probably a better way) and install ruby and portupgrade. Then I simply install the ports/packages I want using 'portinstall -P'. This assures that I have the latest ports and not something stale. I can speed the process by copying all of the packages from CD to my system (/usr/ports/packages/All). That way, only ports that have been updated since the release will be downloaded and I only have to change CDs a couple of times. > 2. Being able to use Sysinstall and not having it crash when a dependency > is already present. Sometimes I like to use Sysinstall to install gigantic > packages where the compile time is 26 hours, e.g KDE metapackage, and my > notebook uses an Intel Core 2 Duo at 2Ghz or thereabout. That is one hell > of a long compile time. For this request I will just have to wait for > FreeBSD 10.0. I have not seen this, but I don't sue sysinstall to install packages/ports. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: oberman@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 224 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080703/82892195/attachment.pgp From antoinebrunel at yahoo.fr Thu Jul 3 22:19:56 2008 From: antoinebrunel at yahoo.fr (Antoine BRUNEL) Date: Thu Jul 3 23:29:57 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war In-Reply-To: <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> References: <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> Message-ID: <486D5089.6000900@yahoo.fr> Hi all I suggest this "flame" to stop right now... because everybody is ok finally.... I agree with Rob in the fact that 'sysinstall' is a bit disturbing tool with its way of working: the "enter" key, the error messages if HTTP source is unavailable, etc.... and I confess I had to re-install my laptop 3 or 4 times before getting what I wanted from sysinstall. Maybe this tool should be upgraded, but I think it should not follow the way other installerd did.... somebody spokes about the Oracle installer... It was a real hell for you: how to install an Oracle database onto an HP 7 inch terminal, without X and/or Java installed ?? I hope FreeBSD will never get way, like Windows or Linux.... How about to give a try at the actual Debian ncurse installer ??? still in text based environment, but very powerful .... Kevin Oberman a ?crit : >> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:28:50 -0700 >> From: "Rob Lytle" >> Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org >> >> Hi All, >> >> I'm sorry I started a kind of flame war. All I wanted was two things: 1. >> CD's that installed without being switched in and out dozens of times. That >> was fixed by the suggestion of using a DVD. I didn't even know the DVD >> install existed, but will do that next time. >> > > You call this a flame war? It's been pretty civil and there are no scorch > marks on my display. > > I agree that the disk swapping is not a good thing, but I simply avoid > it by never installing packages from sysinstall. I only use sysinstall > for FreeBSD. > > Once I have FreeBSD installed, I update my ports tree with csup (but > portsnap is probably a better way) and install ruby and > portupgrade. Then I simply install the ports/packages I want using > 'portinstall -P'. This assures that I have the latest ports and not > something stale. I can speed the process by copying all of the packages > from CD to my system (/usr/ports/packages/All). That way, only ports > that have been updated since the release will be downloaded and I only > have to change CDs a couple of times. > > > >> 2. Being able to use Sysinstall and not having it crash when a dependency >> is already present. Sometimes I like to use Sysinstall to install gigantic >> packages where the compile time is 26 hours, e.g KDE metapackage, and my >> notebook uses an Intel Core 2 Duo at 2Ghz or thereabout. That is one hell >> of a long compile time. For this request I will just have to wait for >> FreeBSD 10.0. >> > > I have not seen this, but I don't sue sysinstall to install > packages/ports. > From mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df at mired.org Fri Jul 4 00:18:58 2008 From: mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df at mired.org (Mike Meyer) Date: Fri Jul 4 00:19:02 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <20080703212100.GA16598@lpthe.jussieu.fr> References: <20080703212100.GA16598@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <20080703201841.2b0b955b@bhuda.mired.org> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:21:00 +0200 Michel Talon wrote: > evolve easily. The argument that there sould be no external dependency > seems to me inspired by the NIH syndrom. I think your seeming is wrong. I believe it's inspired by the belief that the base system should be self-replicating: you should be able to build the distribution with the base install and sources. While I think that kind of self-replicating ability is a good goal, having an X interface pretty much kills it - you have to have have the X headers to compile against, if nothing else. I think this makes the wanting to use a modern HLL more palatable. However, once you tie part of the release process to some external tool, you create extra headaches for the ports folks. You can no longer update the port without verifying that you didn't just break the release process. This means updating the port will take longer - which will make users who like FreeBSD because critical software in the ports tree tends to stay up to date unhappy. Maybe you need to maintain two versions of the port? Not pretty if they're actually based on the same release of the language. Or course, you could move the interpreter into the base system, but we've been there before, and it was really ugly (and I'm there now on clients GNU/Linux systems, and it's *still* really ugly). Come to think of it, someone claimed that (some of) the problems with the installer come from using an ancient version of dialog, so it seems that part of the system is *still* there. On the other hand, if you're going to do this, replacing the forth in the boot process would seem to be a suitable second objective. http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From stephen at math.missouri.edu Fri Jul 4 03:28:03 2008 From: stephen at math.missouri.edu (Stephen Montgomery-Smith) Date: Fri Jul 4 03:28:11 2008 Subject: time used by a thread In-Reply-To: <26495768.1230901215121011453.JavaMail.root@vms126.mailsrvcs.net> References: <26495768.1230901215121011453.JavaMail.root@vms126.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <486D98C1.9060401@math.missouri.edu> Sergey Babkin wrote: >> I want to use getrusage to see how much time a program is using. But >> this is a multithreaded program, and I just want the time taken by that >> particular thread! >> >> I know this info must be available somewhere, because top -H seems to >> provide it. But getrusage seems to give the total rusage for the whole >> program, not just the thread. >> >> Any ideas? I would especially appreciate a portable solution that works >> for OS other than FreeBSD (e.g. linux, etc as well). > > On Linux and Solaris it can be done by reading the /proc filesystem. > Probably on FreeBSD too, haven't tried. But it's different on each OS. Thanks. I developed a non-portable solution using kvm_getprocs. From jan6146 at gmail.com Fri Jul 4 04:26:17 2008 From: jan6146 at gmail.com (Rob Lytle) Date: Fri Jul 4 04:28:21 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war In-Reply-To: <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> Message-ID: <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> Hi Kevin, The sysinstall dependency problem has existed for 10 years, so I doubt that its unique to me. It has occurred in every installation I have ever done. I use portupgrade for all ports. i strongly disagree with using ports for huge packages. I don't have the time to waste compiling. Plus, you are presented with numerous nag screens so you have to babysit the whole process. Rob. On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Kevin Oberman wrote: > > Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:28:50 -0700 > > From: "Rob Lytle" > > Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org > > > > Hi All, > > > > I'm sorry I started a kind of flame war. All I wanted was two things: > 1. > > CD's that installed without being switched in and out dozens of times. > That > > was fixed by the suggestion of using a DVD. I didn't even know the DVD > > install existed, but will do that next time. > > You call this a flame war? It's been pretty civil and there are no scorch > marks on my display. > > I agree that the disk swapping is not a good thing, but I simply avoid > it by never installing packages from sysinstall. I only use sysinstall > for FreeBSD. > > Once I have FreeBSD installed, I update my ports tree with csup (but > portsnap is probably a better way) and install ruby and > portupgrade. Then I simply install the ports/packages I want using > 'portinstall -P'. This assures that I have the latest ports and not > something stale. I can speed the process by copying all of the packages > from CD to my system (/usr/ports/packages/All). That way, only ports > that have been updated since the release will be downloaded and I only > have to change CDs a couple of times. > > > > 2. Being able to use Sysinstall and not having it crash when a > dependency > > is already present. Sometimes I like to use Sysinstall to install > gigantic > > packages where the compile time is 26 hours, e.g KDE metapackage, and my > > notebook uses an Intel Core 2 Duo at 2Ghz or thereabout. That is one > hell > > of a long compile time. For this request I will just have to wait for > > FreeBSD 10.0. > > I have not seen this, but I don't sue sysinstall to install > packages/ports. > -- > R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer > Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) > Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) > E-mail: oberman@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634 > Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 > -- ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds (Ham radio videos) From stephen at math.missouri.edu Fri Jul 4 04:33:07 2008 From: stephen at math.missouri.edu (Stephen Montgomery-Smith) Date: Fri Jul 4 04:33:15 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war In-Reply-To: <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <486DA7FC.8050304@math.missouri.edu> Rob Lytle wrote: > Hi Kevin, > > The sysinstall dependency problem has existed for 10 years, so I doubt that > its unique to me. It has occurred in every installation I have ever done. > > I use portupgrade for all ports. > > i strongly disagree with using ports for huge packages. I don't have the > time to waste compiling. Plus, you are presented with numerous nag screens > so you have to babysit the whole process. You can get rid of the nag screens by putting "BATCH=yes" into /etc/make.conf. (Not that this negates your other points.) From MTaylor at bytecraft.com.au Fri Jul 4 04:51:02 2008 From: MTaylor at bytecraft.com.au (Murray Taylor) Date: Fri Jul 4 04:51:10 2008 Subject: massive interrupt storm Message-ID: <04E232FDCD9FBE43857F7066CAD3C0F15B81D2@svmailmel.bytecraft.internal> Hi all, We have just purchased some servers with a view to using them as firewalls within our WAN, and have discovered that they are suject to a massive interrupt storm on IRQ17. systat -v is showing 59000 -> 63000 interrupts continuously on this IRQ, and 90%->98% Interrupt CPU usage The server specs are Model: IBM x3250 M2 IBM MT code: 4190 CPU : Core 2 Duo, Has SAS RAID module fitted to mobo 2 SATA drives in RAID 1 No mobo PS2 ports at all 4 USB port on mobo 2 Broadcom NIC on mobo 1 Gb RAM fitted as 2 512M sticks PCI Express Bus - No cards installed It seem to be related to one of the PCI busses as bge1 doesnt come up in the dmesg lists and that is on (i think) pcib1. Big Note: this storm activity is apparent on 4.11, 6.2 and 7.0 ... kernel is GENERIC in all test cases. The boxen work, just v e r y s l o w l y ... ideas ? Murray Taylor Special Projects Engineer Bytecraft Systems -- "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." --Albert Einstein --------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted in this e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended addressee and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, dissemination or other use of it, or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons and/or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please inform the sender and/or addressee immediately and delete the material. E-mails may not be secure, may contain computer viruses and may be corrupted in transmission. Please carefully check this e-mail (and any attachment) accordingly. No warranties are given and no liability is accepted for any loss or damage caused by such matters. --------------------------------------------------------------- ### This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses by Bytecraft ### From jan6146 at gmail.com Fri Jul 4 04:38:54 2008 From: jan6146 at gmail.com (Rob Lytle) Date: Fri Jul 4 04:57:51 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war In-Reply-To: <486DA7FC.8050304@math.missouri.edu> References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> <486DA7FC.8050304@math.missouri.edu> Message-ID: <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Stephen Montgomery-Smith < stephen@math.missouri.edu> wrote: > Rob Lytle wrote: > >> Hi Kevin, >> >> The sysinstall dependency problem has existed for 10 years, so I doubt >> that >> its unique to me. It has occurred in every installation I have ever done. >> >> I use portupgrade for all ports. >> >> i strongly disagree with using ports for huge packages. I don't have the >> time to waste compiling. Plus, you are presented with numerous nag >> screens >> so you have to babysit the whole process. >> > > You can get rid of the nag screens by putting "BATCH=yes" into > /etc/make.conf. (Not that this negates your other points.) What the hell does "yes" mean? That all option boxes are checked, or none at all? I have never seen this explained anywhere. Rob -- ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds (Ham radio videos) From bu7cher at yandex.ru Fri Jul 4 05:01:46 2008 From: bu7cher at yandex.ru (Andrey V. Elsukov) Date: Fri Jul 4 05:01:53 2008 Subject: massive interrupt storm In-Reply-To: <04E232FDCD9FBE43857F7066CAD3C0F15B81D2@svmailmel.bytecraft.internal> References: <04E232FDCD9FBE43857F7066CAD3C0F15B81D2@svmailmel.bytecraft.internal> Message-ID: <486DAEB0.2040904@yandex.ru> Murray Taylor wrote: > ideas ? What shows `vmstat -i`? -- WBR, Andrey V. Elsukov From stephen at math.missouri.edu Fri Jul 4 05:09:53 2008 From: stephen at math.missouri.edu (Stephen Montgomery-Smith) Date: Fri Jul 4 05:10:06 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war In-Reply-To: <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> <486DA7FC.8050304@math.missouri.edu> <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <486DB09F.4080803@math.missouri.edu> Rob Lytle wrote: > On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Stephen Montgomery-Smith < > stephen@math.missouri.edu> wrote: > >> Rob Lytle wrote: >> >>> Hi Kevin, >>> >>> The sysinstall dependency problem has existed for 10 years, so I doubt >>> that >>> its unique to me. It has occurred in every installation I have ever done. >>> >>> I use portupgrade for all ports. >>> >>> i strongly disagree with using ports for huge packages. I don't have the >>> time to waste compiling. Plus, you are presented with numerous nag >>> screens >>> so you have to babysit the whole process. >>> >> You can get rid of the nag screens by putting "BATCH=yes" into >> /etc/make.conf. (Not that this negates your other points.) > > > What the hell does "yes" mean? That all option boxes are checked, or none > at all? I have never seen this explained anywhere. It means it acts as though you didn't change any of the check boxes at all. (So either the default, or if it was previously set in /var/db/ports, then what that is.) It is explained in "man ports" but not in great detail. From MTaylor at bytecraft.com.au Fri Jul 4 05:28:18 2008 From: MTaylor at bytecraft.com.au (Murray Taylor) Date: Fri Jul 4 05:28:25 2008 Subject: massive interrupt storm Message-ID: <04E232FDCD9FBE43857F7066CAD3C0F15B81E1@svmailmel.bytecraft.internal> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > [mailto:owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of > Andrey V. Elsukov > Sent: Friday, 4 July 2008 3:02 PM > To: Murray Taylor > Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: massive interrupt storm > > Murray Taylor wrote: > > ideas ? > > What shows `vmstat -i`? > > -- > WBR, Andrey V. Elsukov vmstat -i output interrupt total rate irq1: atkbd0 78 0 irq6: fdc0 3 0 irq16: uhci0 ehci0 3 0 irq17: mpt0 uhci1* 680341376 57301 irq21: bge0 11806 0 cpu0: timer 23737523 1999 Total 704090789 59301 --------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted in this e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended addressee and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, dissemination or other use of it, or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons and/or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please inform the sender and/or addressee immediately and delete the material. E-mails may not be secure, may contain computer viruses and may be corrupted in transmission. Please carefully check this e-mail (and any attachment) accordingly. No warranties are given and no liability is accepted for any loss or damage caused by such matters. --------------------------------------------------------------- ### This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses by Bytecraft ### From freebsd-nospam at yaxom.com Fri Jul 4 05:33:05 2008 From: freebsd-nospam at yaxom.com (Greg Black) Date: Fri Jul 4 05:33:18 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war In-Reply-To: <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> <486DA7FC.8050304@math.missouri.edu> <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2008-07-03, Rob Lytle wrote: > > You can get rid of the nag screens by putting "BATCH=yes" into > > /etc/make.conf. (Not that this negates your other points.) > > What the hell does "yes" mean? That all option boxes are checked, or none > at all? I have never seen this explained anywhere. Instead of all this vociferous whining, how about just doing a bit of reading of the documentation? The ports(7) page might be a place to start. From simoncpu at infoweapons.com Fri Jul 4 05:33:17 2008 From: simoncpu at infoweapons.com (Simon Cornelius P. Umacob) Date: Fri Jul 4 05:33:29 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war In-Reply-To: <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> <486DA7FC.8050304@math.missouri.edu> <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <486DB3CB.9000906@infoweapons.com> Rob Lytle wrote: >>> >> You can get rid of the nag screens by putting "BATCH=yes" into >> /etc/make.conf. (Not that this negates your other points.) > > > What the hell does "yes" mean? That all option boxes are checked, or none > at all? I have never seen this explained anywhere. > It means, "yeah, whatever, as long as it will work." :) [ simon.cpu ] -- And /usr/games/fortune futurama says: "Planet Express: our crew is replaceable, your package isn't." -Advertisement From bu7cher at yandex.ru Fri Jul 4 06:33:44 2008 From: bu7cher at yandex.ru (Andrey V. Elsukov) Date: Fri Jul 4 06:33:51 2008 Subject: massive interrupt storm In-Reply-To: <04E232FDCD9FBE43857F7066CAD3C0F15B81E1@svmailmel.bytecraft.internal> References: <04E232FDCD9FBE43857F7066CAD3C0F15B81E1@svmailmel.bytecraft.internal> Message-ID: <486DC432.7040009@yandex.ru> Murray Taylor wrote: > irq17: mpt0 uhci1* 680341376 57301 Did you try to disable USB in BIOS? (yes, you don't have PS/2, but you can use SSH for testing) Also did you try to disable ACPI? -- WBR, Andrey V. Elsukov From aggelidis.news at gmail.com Fri Jul 4 07:07:14 2008 From: aggelidis.news at gmail.com (Aggelidis Nikos) Date: Fri Jul 4 07:07:21 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war In-Reply-To: <486DB3CB.9000906@infoweapons.com> References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> <486DA7FC.8050304@math.missouri.edu> <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> <486DB3CB.9000906@infoweapons.com> Message-ID: <30fc78250807032338p2388be7ax56e1ae38aaafadd8@mail.gmail.com> > I'm sorry I started a kind of flame war. All I wanted was two things: 1. > CD's that installed without being switched in and out dozens of times. That > was fixed by the suggestion of using a DVD. I didn't even know the DVD > install existed, but will do that next time. > I also had the same problem {cd switching} to get around it, i created an installation DVD with all the contents of cd1-2-3. You can find such guide > I can speed the process by copying all of the packages > from CD to my system (/usr/ports/packages/All). That way, only ports > that have been updated since the release will be downloaded and I only > have to change CDs a couple of times. > i hadn't thought of this, seems like a nice trick... Isn't it possible that the advice given in these threads find its way into the handbook? {i use freebsd for less than a month, so if this is a stupid suggestion, please ignore it :) } -nicolas From marck at rinet.ru Fri Jul 4 09:21:02 2008 From: marck at rinet.ru (Dmitry Morozovsky) Date: Fri Jul 4 09:21:09 2008 Subject: profiling broken on RELENG_7/i386 Message-ID: <20080704121833.J35668@woozle.rinet.ru> Dear colleagues, It seems we step on a bug in gcc in RELENG_7/i386 It is triggered at least by profiling program which uses getopt(3): marck@ref7-i386:~/tmp/gprof> cat test.c #include int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { int ch; while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "")) != -1) { } return (0); } marck@ref7-i386:~/tmp/gprof> make Warning: Object directory not changed from original /dumpster/home/marck/tmp/gprof cc -O2 -fno-strict-aliasing -pipe -march=prescott -g -pg -c test.c cc -O2 -fno-strict-aliasing -pipe -march=prescott -g -pg -o test test.o marck@ref7-i386:~/tmp/gprof> ./test Segmentation fault (core dumped) marck@ref7-i386:~/tmp/gprof> gdb test test.core GNU gdb 6.1.1 [FreeBSD] Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc. GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. Type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as "i386-marcel-freebsd"... Core was generated by `test'. Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault. #0 0x080481e0 in main (argc=Cannot access memory at address 0x1b ) at test.c:6 6 { (gdb) l 1 2 #include 3 4 int 5 main(int argc, char *argv[]) 6 { 7 int ch; 8 9 while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "")) != -1) { 10 } (gdb) marck@ref7-i386:~/tmp/gprof> truss ./test __sysctl(0xbf7feb0c,0x2,0x806bf70,0xbf7feb18,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) __sysctl(0xbf7fe64c,0x2,0x806d558,0xbf7fe654,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) __sysctl(0xbf7fe69c,0x2,0xbf7fe6a8,0xbf7fe6ac,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) readlink("/etc/malloc.conf","aj",1024) = 2 (0x2) issetugid(0x8066d0d,0xbf7fe70b,0x400,0xbf7feb18,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) break(0x8100000) = 0 (0x0) break(0x8200000) = 0 (0x0) sysarch(0xa,0xbf7feba0,0xbf7febc8,0x8048555,0x8102040,0xc) = 0 (0x0) break(0x8226004) = 0 (0x0) profil(0x82075a8,0xf52e,0x8048148,0x8000,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) SIGNAL 11 (SIGSEGV) other ref platforms seem to be ok. Any hints? Sincerely, D.Marck [DM5020, MCK-RIPE, DM3-RIPN] [ FreeBSD committer: marck@FreeBSD.org ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** Dmitry Morozovsky --- D.Marck --- Wild Woozle --- marck@rinet.ru *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From peterjeremy at optushome.com.au Fri Jul 4 09:26:13 2008 From: peterjeremy at optushome.com.au (Peter Jeremy) Date: Fri Jul 4 09:26:20 2008 Subject: how can i get file name knowing its descriptor? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080704092609.GW29380@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> On 2008-Jul-03 14:08:12 +0300, Uladzislau Rezki wrote: >I've been writing a small kernel module, that provides information about >modification of the filesystem to user_land/userspace through the >character device. I'm using FreeBSD 4.10 4.10 has not been supported for several years now. I strongly recommend you look at upgrading to at least 6.3. >So, my question is: Is there any way to get file name knowing its descriptor? The simple answer is no. That said, you could try having a look at how lsof works (whilst it runs in userland, it needs to grovel around in the kernel datastructures much the same as your module would need to. -- Peter Jeremy Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080704/84ce980a/attachment.pgp From marck at rinet.ru Fri Jul 4 09:26:59 2008 From: marck at rinet.ru (Dmitry Morozovsky) Date: Fri Jul 4 09:27:05 2008 Subject: profiling broken on RELENG_7/i386 In-Reply-To: <20080704121833.J35668@woozle.rinet.ru> References: <20080704121833.J35668@woozle.rinet.ru> Message-ID: <20080704132159.C35668@woozle.rinet.ru> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008, Dmitry Morozovsky wrote: DM> It seems we step on a bug in gcc in RELENG_7/i386 DM> DM> It is triggered at least by profiling program which uses getopt(3): [snip] DM> other ref platforms seem to be ok. Nah, HEAD/i386 also has this bug, though backtrace is a bit different: marck@ref8-i386:~/tmp/gprof> make clean all rm -f test test.o Warning: Object directory not changed from original /dumpster/home/marck/tmp/gprof cc -O2 -pipe -march=prescott -g -pg -fstack-protector -c test.c cc -O2 -pipe -march=prescott -g -pg -fstack-protector -o test test.o marck@ref8-i386:~/tmp/gprof> ./test Segmentation fault (core dumped) marck@ref8-i386:~/tmp/gprof> gdb test test.core GNU gdb 6.1.1 [FreeBSD] Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc. GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. Type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as "i386-marcel-freebsd"... Core was generated by `test'. Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault. #0 0x08048242 in getopt () (gdb) bt #0 0x08048242 in getopt () #1 0x080481f9 in main (argc=0, argv=0x0) at test.c:9 (gdb) l 9 while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "")) != -1) { 10 } 11 12 return (0); 13 } (gdb) marck@ref8-i386:~/tmp/gprof> truss ./test __sysctl(0xbf7fe728,0x2,0x8071ff0,0xbf7fe730,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) __sysctl(0xbf7fe67c,0x2,0x80776a8,0xbf7fe684,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) __sysctl(0xbf7fe6cc,0x2,0xbf7fe6d8,0xbf7fe6dc,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) readlink("/etc/malloc.conf","DMaj",1024) = 4 (0x4) issetugid(0x806c233,0xbf7fe737,0x400,0xbf7fe730,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) break(0x8100000) = 0 (0x0) break(0x8200000) = 0 (0x0) sysarch(0xa,0xbf7feba0,0xbf7febc8,0x8048555,0x8102040,0xc) = 0 (0x0) break(0x822c69c) = 0 (0x0) profil(0x8208988,0x11e8a,0x8048148,0x8000,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) __sysctl(0xbf7feb9c,0x2,0x8072140,0xbf7feba4,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) SIGNAL 11 (SIGSEGV) amd64 and RELENG_6 seem to perform well Sincerely, D.Marck [DM5020, MCK-RIPE, DM3-RIPN] [ FreeBSD committer: marck@FreeBSD.org ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** Dmitry Morozovsky --- D.Marck --- Wild Woozle --- marck@rinet.ru *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jan6146 at gmail.com Fri Jul 4 05:58:23 2008 From: jan6146 at gmail.com (Rob Lytle) Date: Fri Jul 4 10:59:49 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war In-Reply-To: References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> <486DA7FC.8050304@math.missouri.edu> <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <784966050807032258n230bc0bx461b652c8ae6da71@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:06 PM, Greg Black wrote: > On 2008-07-03, Rob Lytle wrote: > > > > You can get rid of the nag screens by putting "BATCH=yes" into > > > /etc/make.conf. (Not that this negates your other points.) > > > > What the hell does "yes" mean? That all option boxes are checked, or > none > > at all? I have never seen this explained anywhere. > > Instead of all this vociferous whining, how about just doing a bit of > reading of the documentation? The ports(7) page might be a place to > start. > That would have been wonderful, groovy, etc if I had known there was a ports page. Rob. -- ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds (Ham radio videos) From jan6146 at gmail.com Fri Jul 4 06:04:11 2008 From: jan6146 at gmail.com (Rob Lytle) Date: Fri Jul 4 11:00:06 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war In-Reply-To: <784966050807032258n230bc0bx461b652c8ae6da71@mail.gmail.com> References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> <486DA7FC.8050304@math.missouri.edu> <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> <784966050807032258n230bc0bx461b652c8ae6da71@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <784966050807032304x48b575d3jddfe3844d7196b38@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:58 PM, Rob Lytle wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:06 PM, Greg Black > wrote: > >> On 2008-07-03, Rob Lytle wrote: >> >> > > You can get rid of the nag screens by putting "BATCH=yes" into >> > > /etc/make.conf. (Not that this negates your other points.) >> > >> > What the hell does "yes" mean? That all option boxes are checked, or >> none >> > at all? I have never seen this explained anywhere. >> >> Instead of all this vociferous whining, how about just doing a bit of >> reading of the documentation? The ports(7) page might be a place to >> start. >> > > That would have been wonderful, groovy, etc if I had known there was a > ports page. Rob. > And another thing, just because FreeBSD is not perfect, don't blame it on me or use derogatory language. I'm not perfect either and I deserve to be treated with respect. Some day someone will search the archives and find this thread, answering their problem so they don't have to go through this miserable process like I have. It makes me less likely to use the mailing lists, more likely to delete the FreeBSD partition, and install OpenBSD which has impeccable documentation. Rob. > > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------- > http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds > (Ham radio videos) > -- ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds (Ham radio videos) From des at des.no Fri Jul 4 12:14:38 2008 From: des at des.no (=?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) Date: Fri Jul 4 12:14:51 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war In-Reply-To: <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> (Rob Lytle's message of "Thu\, 3 Jul 2008 21\:26\:16 -0700") References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <868wwhhmms.fsf@ds4.des.no> "Rob Lytle" writes: > i strongly disagree with using ports for huge packages. I don't have the > time to waste compiling. Plus, you are presented with numerous nag screens > so you have to babysit the whole process. This is why there are precompiled packages on ftp.freebsd.org which you can install with 'pkg_add -r'. You can install them from any FTP mirror, actually; just point PACKAGEROOT at the mirror: export PACKAGEROOT=ftp://ftp.no.freebsd.org DES -- Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav - des@des.no From onemda at gmail.com Fri Jul 4 12:31:53 2008 From: onemda at gmail.com (Paul B. Mahol) Date: Fri Jul 4 12:32:27 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war In-Reply-To: <486E14F2.3060906@psg.com> References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> <868wwhhmms.fsf@ds4.des.no> <486E14F2.3060906@psg.com> Message-ID: <3a142e750807040531k27938f0ay9bd9923ec57f3f1@mail.gmail.com> On 7/4/08, Randy Bush wrote: >> This is why there are precompiled packages on ftp.freebsd.org which you >> can install with 'pkg_add -r'. You can install them from any FTP >> mirror, actually; just point PACKAGEROOT at the mirror: > > why isn't this stuff in the docs? oh, it is! silly me. is the problem > that there are just too much doc or two little reading? > > It is in pkg_add(1), If you are talking about handbook only PACKAGESITE is documented: should get fixed. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From guru at unixarea.de Fri Jul 4 12:42:32 2008 From: guru at unixarea.de (Matthias Apitz) Date: Fri Jul 4 12:42:39 2008 Subject: kernel HEAD && userland 7.0-REL? Message-ID: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> Hello, I'm running a RELENG_7 kernel and a userland as 7.0-REL on one of my laptops; I've been asked to check if a given driver problem in RELENG_7 is as well with HEAD... can I update the kernel to HEAD and let the userland (and all my compiled ports) as 7.0-REL; I know that this is not the intention, but it would cost me a lot of work if I should compile as well ~200 ports.... thx matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/ ?...una sola vez, que es cuanto basta si se trata de verdades definitivas.? ?...only once, which is enough if it has todo with definite truth.? Jos? Saramago, Historia del Cerca de Lisboa From gary.jennejohn at freenet.de Fri Jul 4 14:22:44 2008 From: gary.jennejohn at freenet.de (Gary Jennejohn) Date: Fri Jul 4 14:22:57 2008 Subject: kernel HEAD && userland 7.0-REL? In-Reply-To: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> References: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> Message-ID: <20080704162239.696ab740@peedub.jennejohn.org> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:42:27 +0200 Matthias Apitz wrote: > I'm running a RELENG_7 kernel and a userland as 7.0-REL on one of my > laptops; I've been asked to check if a given driver problem in RELENG_7 is as > well with HEAD... can I update the kernel to HEAD and let the userland > (and all my compiled ports) as 7.0-REL; I know that this is not the > intention, but it would cost me a lot of work if I should compile as > well ~200 ports.... > Theoretically it should work. It's not necessary to overwrite your current kernel. You can do something like this, which is what I do to test kernels. cd /usr/src;make -s installkernel KODIR=/boot/test;cd nextboot -k test reboot This does a one-time start using the test kernel under /boot/test. Your other option is to describe the problem and ask if anyone using 8-current has encountered it. --- Gary Jennejohn From guru at unixarea.de Fri Jul 4 14:40:05 2008 From: guru at unixarea.de (Matthias Apitz) Date: Fri Jul 4 14:40:13 2008 Subject: eeePC 900 && turning off wireless (ath0) In-Reply-To: <20080701111426.GA1152@phi.local> References: <20080626075545.GA2964@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080626231603.GC6875@phi.local> <20080627080203.GA19602@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080627194447.GA34524@phi.local> <20080629160527.GA17075@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080629162234.GB1261@phi.local> <20080701090220.GA4431@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080701111426.GA1152@phi.local> Message-ID: <20080704144002.GA3661@rebelion.Sisis.de> El d?a Tuesday, July 01, 2008 a las 12:14:26PM +0100, Rui Paulo escribi?: > On Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 11:02:20AM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote: > > Rui, > > Have you commited your changes to RELENG_7 too or only to HEAD? I'm > > asking because Fn+F2 does toggle the power of the wireless NIC but > > devd(8) does not see any ACPI event in this case; it sees it for example > > if the battery comes full; > > > > thx for clarifying this > > > > could you please send me the /etc/devd.conf file you mention in the page > > http://wiki.freebsd.org/AsusEee ? in the one which came out of CVS with > > RELENG_7 I could not see anything about hotkeys; thx in advance > > Only to HEAD. I'm going to MFC it today. Hello Rui, With your changes of acpi_asus.c in RELENG_7 the devd(8) and my hook-script in /usr/local/etc/devd/ath.conf sees the Fn+F2 now as the event "ACPI ASUS-Eee _SB_.ATKD", but it is anyway if Fn+F2 switches off or on the wireless NIC, the event for devd(8) is always the same; from the above event it is clear where the strings for system ACPI and subsystem ASUS-Eee come from, but I don't see where the string "_SB_.ATKD" is made; it must be derived from the 'notify' argument of the call /* Notify devd(8) */ acpi_UserNotify("ASUS-Eee", h, notify); and I was hoping to distinguish it into two different events, one when Fn+F2 is switching off the NIC, and one of the case of switch on; any idea? thx matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/ ?...una sola vez, que es cuanto basta si se trata de verdades definitivas.? ?...only once, which is enough if it has todo with definite truth.? Jos? Saramago, Historia del Cerca de Lisboa From shadel540 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 4 15:10:49 2008 From: shadel540 at hotmail.com (bruno faria) Date: Fri Jul 4 15:10:56 2008 Subject: kernel module programming Message-ID: well i'm making an interactive bootsplash for PCBSD and i wan't to know where i can get info in retrieving the current log from the kernel (dmesg output), sorry for any mistake as this is not my native lang... regards Bruno Faria... _________________________________________________________________ Conhe?a o Windows Live Spaces, a rede de relacionamentos do Messenger! http://www.amigosdomessenger.com.br/ From oberman at es.net Fri Jul 4 15:40:16 2008 From: oberman at es.net (Kevin Oberman) Date: Fri Jul 4 16:11:02 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:26:16 PDT." <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080704154013.D60EE4500E@ptavv.es.net> > Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:26:16 -0700 > From: "Rob Lytle" > > Hi Kevin, > > The sysinstall dependency problem has existed for 10 years, so I doubt that > its unique to me. It has occurred in every installation I have ever done. > > I use portupgrade for all ports. > > i strongly disagree with using ports for huge packages. I don't have the > time to waste compiling. Plus, you are presented with numerous nag screens > so you have to babysit the whole process. Please don't top post! I never said that you should build from ports. I said that you should not use sysinstall to install packages. I said that you can copy the packages from the CDs to /usr/ports/packages/All/ and use 'portinstall -P' to install all of them that are still current and to download those that are not. This simply eliminates all of the disc shuffling. If the nag screens annoy you, use BATCH=yes to build ports with default values. That gives you the same build as the package system uses. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: oberman@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 224 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080704/8bbb080a/attachment.pgp From rpaulo at FreeBSD.org Fri Jul 4 17:46:18 2008 From: rpaulo at FreeBSD.org (Rui Paulo) Date: Fri Jul 4 17:46:24 2008 Subject: eeePC 900 && turning off wireless (ath0) In-Reply-To: <20080704144002.GA3661@rebelion.Sisis.de> References: <20080626075545.GA2964@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080626231603.GC6875@phi.local> <20080627080203.GA19602@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080627194447.GA34524@phi.local> <20080629160527.GA17075@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080629162234.GB1261@phi.local> <20080701090220.GA4431@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080701111426.GA1152@phi.local> <20080704144002.GA3661@rebelion.Sisis.de> Message-ID: <20080704174444.GC3560@phi.local> On Fri, Jul 04, 2008 at 04:40:02PM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote: > El d?a Tuesday, July 01, 2008 a las 12:14:26PM +0100, Rui Paulo escribi?: > > > On Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 11:02:20AM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote: > > > Rui, > > > Have you commited your changes to RELENG_7 too or only to HEAD? I'm > > > asking because Fn+F2 does toggle the power of the wireless NIC but > > > devd(8) does not see any ACPI event in this case; it sees it for example > > > if the battery comes full; > > > > > > thx for clarifying this > > > > > > could you please send me the /etc/devd.conf file you mention in the page > > > http://wiki.freebsd.org/AsusEee ? in the one which came out of CVS with > > > RELENG_7 I could not see anything about hotkeys; thx in advance > > > > Only to HEAD. I'm going to MFC it today. > > Hello Rui, > > With your changes of acpi_asus.c in RELENG_7 the devd(8) and my > hook-script in /usr/local/etc/devd/ath.conf sees the Fn+F2 now as the > event "ACPI ASUS-Eee _SB_.ATKD", but it is anyway if Fn+F2 switches off > or on the wireless NIC, the event for devd(8) is always the same; > from the above event it is clear where > the strings for system ACPI and subsystem ASUS-Eee come from, but I > don't see where the string "_SB_.ATKD" is made; it must be derived > from the 'notify' argument of the call > > /* Notify devd(8) */ > acpi_UserNotify("ASUS-Eee", h, notify); > > and I was hoping to distinguish it into two different events, one when > Fn+F2 is switching off the NIC, and one of the case of switch on; any > idea? thx If you get the same string from the event, there's not much we can do. _SB_.ATKD is the ACPI namespace for the keyboard. Regards, -- Rui Paulo From mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df at mired.org Fri Jul 4 20:40:31 2008 From: mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df at mired.org (Mike Meyer) Date: Fri Jul 4 20:40:38 2008 Subject: kernel HEAD && userland 7.0-REL? In-Reply-To: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> References: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> Message-ID: <20080704164015.514425fd@bhuda.mired.org> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:42:27 +0200 Matthias Apitz wrote: > I'm running a RELENG_7 kernel and a userland as 7.0-REL on one of my > laptops; I've been asked to check if a given driver problem in RELENG_7 is as > well with HEAD... can I update the kernel to HEAD and let the userland > (and all my compiled ports) as 7.0-REL; I know that this is not the > intention, but it would cost me a lot of work if I should compile as > well ~200 ports.... When you say HEAD, do you mean the HEAD of 8-CURRENT or 7-STABLE? In either case whether or not it works depends on whether something has changed in the kernel that has a required userland change. On the other hand, if you mean 7-STABLE, then the ports should work properly whether userland does or not. http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From peterjeremy at optushome.com.au Sat Jul 5 00:09:10 2008 From: peterjeremy at optushome.com.au (Peter Jeremy) Date: Sat Jul 5 00:09:17 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war In-Reply-To: <784966050807032304x48b575d3jddfe3844d7196b38@mail.gmail.com> References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> <486DA7FC.8050304@math.missouri.edu> <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> <784966050807032258n230bc0bx461b652c8ae6da71@mail.gmail.com> <784966050807032304x48b575d3jddfe3844d7196b38@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080705000907.GG29380@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> On 2008-Jul-03 23:04:10 -0700, Rob Lytle wrote: >FreeBSD partition, and install OpenBSD which has impeccable documentation. Having tried to make sense of the OpenBSD carp documentation, I can only assume that is meant as a joke. -- Peter Jeremy Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080705/77f193cf/attachment.pgp From pisymbol at gmail.com Sat Jul 5 00:13:00 2008 From: pisymbol at gmail.com (Alexander Sack) Date: Sat Jul 5 00:13:07 2008 Subject: kernel HEAD && userland 7.0-REL? In-Reply-To: <20080704164015.514425fd@bhuda.mired.org> References: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080704164015.514425fd@bhuda.mired.org> Message-ID: <3c0b01820807041712l39bdafd8sf3914c2b462023c6@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:42:27 +0200 > Matthias Apitz wrote: >> I'm running a RELENG_7 kernel and a userland as 7.0-REL on one of my >> laptops; I've been asked to check if a given driver problem in RELENG_7 is as >> well with HEAD... can I update the kernel to HEAD and let the userland >> (and all my compiled ports) as 7.0-REL; I know that this is not the >> intention, but it would cost me a lot of work if I should compile as >> well ~200 ports.... > > When you say HEAD, do you mean the HEAD of 8-CURRENT or 7-STABLE? In > either case whether or not it works depends on whether something has > changed in the kernel that has a required userland change. > > On the other hand, if you mean 7-STABLE, then the ports should work > properly whether userland does or not. As a note, I just recently used HEAD on a 7_STABLE box to test changes recently to re for an updated PCIe revision NIC card on my Eee Box. It worked fine (both runtime and my NIC which I then patched my 7_STABLE tree which also worked, yea!). In a thread I started about cross platform building, it seems that historically FreeBSD has had a very stable ABI allowing multiple kernels to run underneath different versions of user land (this is certainly not the case for all *NIX variants). -aps From mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df at mired.org Sat Jul 5 00:28:00 2008 From: mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df at mired.org (Mike Meyer) Date: Sat Jul 5 00:28:07 2008 Subject: kernel HEAD && userland 7.0-REL? In-Reply-To: <3c0b01820807041712l39bdafd8sf3914c2b462023c6@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080704164015.514425fd@bhuda.mired.org> <3c0b01820807041712l39bdafd8sf3914c2b462023c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080704202744.083436a4@bhuda.mired.org> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 20:12:58 -0400 "Alexander Sack" wrote: > On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Mike Meyer > wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:42:27 +0200 > > Matthias Apitz wrote: > >> I'm running a RELENG_7 kernel and a userland as 7.0-REL on one of my > >> laptops; I've been asked to check if a given driver problem in RELENG_7 is as > >> well with HEAD... can I update the kernel to HEAD and let the userland > >> (and all my compiled ports) as 7.0-REL; I know that this is not the > >> intention, but it would cost me a lot of work if I should compile as > >> well ~200 ports.... > > > > When you say HEAD, do you mean the HEAD of 8-CURRENT or 7-STABLE? In > > either case whether or not it works depends on whether something has > > changed in the kernel that has a required userland change. > > > > On the other hand, if you mean 7-STABLE, then the ports should work > > properly whether userland does or not. > > As a note, I just recently used HEAD on a 7_STABLE box to test changes > recently to re for an updated PCIe revision NIC card on my Eee Box. > It worked fine (both runtime and my NIC which I then patched my > 7_STABLE tree which also worked, yea!). In a thread I started about > cross platform building, it seems that historically FreeBSD has had a > very stable ABI allowing multiple kernels to run underneath different > versions of user land (this is certainly not the case for all *NIX > variants). So stable that the things that break when you try and do this have made it into the FAQ: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/troubleshoot.html#NLIST-FAILED Personally, I managed to try this once when the console driver needed a termcap entry change as well :-(. http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From pisymbol at gmail.com Sat Jul 5 02:38:07 2008 From: pisymbol at gmail.com (Alexander Sack) Date: Sat Jul 5 02:38:14 2008 Subject: kernel HEAD && userland 7.0-REL? In-Reply-To: <20080704202744.083436a4@bhuda.mired.org> References: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080704164015.514425fd@bhuda.mired.org> <3c0b01820807041712l39bdafd8sf3914c2b462023c6@mail.gmail.com> <20080704202744.083436a4@bhuda.mired.org> Message-ID: <3c0b01820807041938w619caa44of154de91dac1beb4@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 20:12:58 -0400 > "Alexander Sack" wrote: > >> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Mike Meyer >> wrote: >> > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:42:27 +0200 >> > Matthias Apitz wrote: >> >> I'm running a RELENG_7 kernel and a userland as 7.0-REL on one of my >> >> laptops; I've been asked to check if a given driver problem in RELENG_7 is as >> >> well with HEAD... can I update the kernel to HEAD and let the userland >> >> (and all my compiled ports) as 7.0-REL; I know that this is not the >> >> intention, but it would cost me a lot of work if I should compile as >> >> well ~200 ports.... >> > >> > When you say HEAD, do you mean the HEAD of 8-CURRENT or 7-STABLE? In >> > either case whether or not it works depends on whether something has >> > changed in the kernel that has a required userland change. >> > >> > On the other hand, if you mean 7-STABLE, then the ports should work >> > properly whether userland does or not. >> >> As a note, I just recently used HEAD on a 7_STABLE box to test changes >> recently to re for an updated PCIe revision NIC card on my Eee Box. >> It worked fine (both runtime and my NIC which I then patched my >> 7_STABLE tree which also worked, yea!). In a thread I started about >> cross platform building, it seems that historically FreeBSD has had a >> very stable ABI allowing multiple kernels to run underneath different >> versions of user land (this is certainly not the case for all *NIX >> variants). > > So stable that the things that break when you try and do this have > made it into the FAQ: > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/troubleshoot.html#NLIST-FAILED > > Personally, I managed to try this once when the console driver needed > a termcap entry change as well :-(. Oh c'mon now....if this is the worst of your problems, then you're doing pretty darn good. I believe Linux binaries rely on the version of glibc, an aux vec entry, and the way the kernel was actually built to figure out whether to use syscall or int to hop into the kernel. I mean things could be a lot worse!! :D! -aps From guru at unixarea.de Sat Jul 5 05:26:01 2008 From: guru at unixarea.de (Matthias Apitz) Date: Sat Jul 5 05:26:08 2008 Subject: kernel HEAD && userland 7.0-REL? In-Reply-To: <3c0b01820807041712l39bdafd8sf3914c2b462023c6@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080704164015.514425fd@bhuda.mired.org> <3c0b01820807041712l39bdafd8sf3914c2b462023c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080705051605.GA1840@rebelion.Sisis.de> El d?a Friday, July 04, 2008 a las 08:12:58PM -0400, Alexander Sack escribi?: > On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Mike Meyer > wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:42:27 +0200 > > Matthias Apitz wrote: > >> I'm running a RELENG_7 kernel and a userland as 7.0-REL on one of my > >> laptops; I've been asked to check if a given driver problem in RELENG_7 is as > >> well with HEAD... can I update the kernel to HEAD and let the userland > >> (and all my compiled ports) as 7.0-REL; I know that this is not the > >> intention, but it would cost me a lot of work if I should compile as > >> well ~200 ports.... > > > > When you say HEAD, do you mean the HEAD of 8-CURRENT or 7-STABLE? In > > either case whether or not it works depends on whether something has > > changed in the kernel that has a required userland change. > > > > On the other hand, if you mean 7-STABLE, then the ports should work > > properly whether userland does or not. > > As a note, I just recently used HEAD on a 7_STABLE box to test changes > recently to re for an updated PCIe revision NIC card on my Eee Box. > It worked fine (both runtime and my NIC which I then patched my > 7_STABLE tree which also worked, yea!). In a thread I started about > cross platform building, it seems that historically FreeBSD has had a > very stable ABI allowing multiple kernels to run underneath different > versions of user land (this is certainly not the case for all *NIX > variants). When I said HEAD, I mean HEAD in terms of CVS; and my situation is the same: I want to check some problem with ath / hal on my eeePC 900, if it is also in HEAD or only in RELENG_7 branch; matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/ ?...una sola vez, que es cuanto basta si se trata de verdades definitivas.? ?...only once, which is enough if it has todo with definite truth.? Jos? Saramago, Historia del Cerca de Lisboa From pisymbol at gmail.com Sat Jul 5 12:00:59 2008 From: pisymbol at gmail.com (Alexander Sack) Date: Sat Jul 5 12:01:05 2008 Subject: kernel HEAD && userland 7.0-REL? In-Reply-To: <20080705051605.GA1840@rebelion.Sisis.de> References: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080704164015.514425fd@bhuda.mired.org> <3c0b01820807041712l39bdafd8sf3914c2b462023c6@mail.gmail.com> <20080705051605.GA1840@rebelion.Sisis.de> Message-ID: <3c0b01820807050500k6604b4fsa4a5bbe09d05ca1e@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 1:16 AM, Matthias Apitz wrote: > El d?a Friday, July 04, 2008 a las 08:12:58PM -0400, Alexander Sack escribi?: > >> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Mike Meyer >> wrote: >> > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:42:27 +0200 >> > Matthias Apitz wrote: >> >> I'm running a RELENG_7 kernel and a userland as 7.0-REL on one of my >> >> laptops; I've been asked to check if a given driver problem in RELENG_7 is as >> >> well with HEAD... can I update the kernel to HEAD and let the userland >> >> (and all my compiled ports) as 7.0-REL; I know that this is not the >> >> intention, but it would cost me a lot of work if I should compile as >> >> well ~200 ports.... >> > >> > When you say HEAD, do you mean the HEAD of 8-CURRENT or 7-STABLE? In >> > either case whether or not it works depends on whether something has >> > changed in the kernel that has a required userland change. >> > >> > On the other hand, if you mean 7-STABLE, then the ports should work >> > properly whether userland does or not. >> >> As a note, I just recently used HEAD on a 7_STABLE box to test changes >> recently to re for an updated PCIe revision NIC card on my Eee Box. >> It worked fine (both runtime and my NIC which I then patched my >> 7_STABLE tree which also worked, yea!). In a thread I started about >> cross platform building, it seems that historically FreeBSD has had a >> very stable ABI allowing multiple kernels to run underneath different >> versions of user land (this is certainly not the case for all *NIX >> variants). > > When I said HEAD, I mean HEAD in terms of CVS; and my situation is the > same: I want to check some problem with ath / hal on my eeePC 900, if it > is also in HEAD or only in RELENG_7 branch; Like I said, it should work. I did the EXACT same thing on Thursday to check the re driver on my Eee Box at work. -aps From sebastian.tymkow at gmail.com Sat Jul 5 14:06:41 2008 From: sebastian.tymkow at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sebastian_Tymk=F3w?=) Date: Sat Jul 5 14:06:48 2008 Subject: Sed in FreeBSD Message-ID: <692660060807050706i6e02fe04t840bc0a2aff1e8ae@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I'm trying to use sed in script to append file after pattern but I couldn't find any good example how can I do it. I've tried with sed -e '/PATTERN/ a\ line' file but this did'n work. There are many axamples in internet but none of them work on FreeBSD. Best regards, Sebastian Tymkow From mtm at wubethiopia.com Sat Jul 5 15:10:06 2008 From: mtm at wubethiopia.com (Mike Makonnen) Date: Sat Jul 5 15:10:13 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> Message-ID: <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> Robert Watson wrote: > > For me, it's really about minimizing the time to get to a generic > install from a CD or DVD. Most of the time, I don't do a lot of > customization during the install -- I configure machines using DHCP, I > add most packages later, and I tend to use default disk layouts since my > servers don't multi-boot and the defaults currently seem "reasonable". > > I don't like being asked many more questions than whether or not to > enable sshd, and what to set the root password to. This means that I > find our current distributions menu a bit inefficient (I don't want > sub-menus, I just want checkboxes), and that the inconsistency in the > handling of the space/enter/tab/cursor keys across different libdialog > interfaces in the install is awkward. The current generic and express > installs seem to capture a lot of my desire, in that I can get a box > installed in <5m including actual time to write out the file systems, > which is great. I really don't want to lose this with a new installer :-). That's the route I'm trying to go with the Sysinstall-BSD Installer "mashup." No "submenu hell", no "XYZ distribution" choices, and no extraneous configuration choices. My basic philosophy is that there should be no "Basic", "Expert", or "Custom" modes. There should only be one mode with sensible default choices so that the novice user can simply just click "Next" and the more expert user can modify the default choices and get exactly what he/she wants. Also, the installer's job should only be to install a useable system. Post-installation chores like configuration, adding/removing users, etc should be done by another application. You shouldn't need the installer once you've installed the OS. And oh yeah-- if you can't reliably upgrade from a previous version of the OS, you shouldn't offer the user the option of doing so. Essentially the user only needs to supply 6 things: 1) Where to install to. 2) Where to get installation files from. 3) Network card configuration. 4) Date and Time zone. 5) Hostname. 6)root's password. I'm leaning towards adding a 7th question on whether to enable sshd(8) simply because it's so useful and one of the first things I do after installing a server. Although I didn't want to have the installer setup additional users at first I'm also leaning towards implementing it since enabling sshd(8) without having a non-root user to login as is kinda pointless. Other than that: 1. The stock installation disk should allow the user to easily automate installation (through a configuration file on a flash disk or something). 2. You shouldn't have to edit the source code to make changes to release name, ftp installation sites, etc... 3. Completely divorce the UI from the backend installation logic. So, that all that you need to implement a new UI is boiler plate code to display items sent by the backend and return responses/choices made by the user. Although it needs a few improvements, the BSD Installer pretty much already does this. Status update on the installer I'm woring on: The installer can already install a basic FreeBSD system (including the ports collection) from CD, UFS, or DOS partition. I'm currently working on getting FTP/HTTP/NFS installation to work. Next on my list after that is setting Date and Time Zone. At that stage the installer will be more or less feature-complete, and I can start code cleanup, getting it to work on additional architectures, etc. I had initially intended to include package installation as one of the criteria for feature-completeness, but after reading through this thread I've decided not to use sysinstall's package installation code and instead write one from scratch once I'm happy with the rest of the installer. Cheers. -- Mike Makonnen | GPG-KEY: http://people.freebsd.org/~mtm/mtm.asc mtm @ FreeBSD.Org | AC7B 5672 2D11 F4D0 EBF8 5279 5359 2B82 7CD4 1F55 FreeBSD | http://www.freebsd.org From rwatson at FreeBSD.org Sat Jul 5 15:22:10 2008 From: rwatson at FreeBSD.org (Robert Watson) Date: Sat Jul 5 15:22:22 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> Message-ID: <20080705161614.O19209@fledge.watson.org> On Sat, 5 Jul 2008, Mike Makonnen wrote: > The installer can already install a basic FreeBSD system (including the > ports collection) from CD, UFS, or DOS partition. I'm currently working on > getting FTP/HTTP/NFS installation to work. Next on my list after that is > setting Date and Time Zone. At that stage the installer will be more or less > feature-complete, and I can start code cleanup, getting it to work on > additional architectures, etc. I had initially intended to include package > installation as one of the criteria for feature-completeness, but after > reading through this thread I've decided not to use sysinstall's package > installation code and instead write one from scratch once I'm happy with the > rest of the installer. Sounds pretty much in line with what I was looking for. However, I think I would like to see it be a bit more complete than sysinstall in the area of geom partition labeling (concat/strip/raid/encryption), and perhaps also ZFS support. I realize that adds complexity a fair amount, but one of the biggest areas of feature lack in sysinstall today is that you are basically stuck with the original BSD partition structure and UFS, whereas we expect increasing numbers of users to deploy ZFS. We don't have boot support currently, but being able to set up /data as a ZFS file system would be great. Today, people have to do an initial install on, say, a small boot partition and then relabel/deal with the rest of the disk, boot a live CD, or worse, discover they have to repartition, which really fails to expose some of the excellent ease-of-use, auto-configuration, etc, features that we otherwise have in this area. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From jimmy at mammothcheese.ca Sat Jul 5 15:23:39 2008 From: jimmy at mammothcheese.ca (James Bailie) Date: Sat Jul 5 15:23:46 2008 Subject: Sed in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <692660060807050706i6e02fe04t840bc0a2aff1e8ae@mail.gmail.com> References: <692660060807050706i6e02fe04t840bc0a2aff1e8ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <486F8BB8.6040704@mammothcheese.ca> Sebastian Tymk?w wrote: > I've tried with sed -e '/PATTERN/ a\ line' file but this did'n work. There > are many axamples in internet but none > of them work on FreeBSD. The inserted line needs to be on a separate physical line. sed -e '/PATTERN/a\ line' For /bin/csh, you need two backslashes because the shell recognizes backslashes inside single-quotes, which it shouldn't. -- James Bailie http://www.mammothcheese.ca From mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df at mired.org Sat Jul 5 21:16:12 2008 From: mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df at mired.org (Mike Meyer) Date: Sat Jul 5 21:16:21 2008 Subject: kernel HEAD && userland 7.0-REL? In-Reply-To: <3c0b01820807041938w619caa44of154de91dac1beb4@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080704164015.514425fd@bhuda.mired.org> <3c0b01820807041712l39bdafd8sf3914c2b462023c6@mail.gmail.com> <20080704202744.083436a4@bhuda.mired.org> <3c0b01820807041938w619caa44of154de91dac1beb4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080705171557.18f6348c@bhuda.mired.org> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 22:38:04 -0400 "Alexander Sack" wrote: > On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 20:12:58 -0400 > > "Alexander Sack" wrote: > > > >> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Mike Meyer > >> wrote: > >> > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:42:27 +0200 > >> > Matthias Apitz wrote: > >> >> I'm running a RELENG_7 kernel and a userland as 7.0-REL on one of my > >> >> laptops; I've been asked to check if a given driver problem in RELENG_7 is as > >> >> well with HEAD... can I update the kernel to HEAD and let the userland > >> >> (and all my compiled ports) as 7.0-REL; I know that this is not the > >> >> intention, but it would cost me a lot of work if I should compile as > >> >> well ~200 ports.... > >> > > >> > When you say HEAD, do you mean the HEAD of 8-CURRENT or 7-STABLE? In > >> > either case whether or not it works depends on whether something has > >> > changed in the kernel that has a required userland change. > >> > > >> > On the other hand, if you mean 7-STABLE, then the ports should work > >> > properly whether userland does or not. > >> > >> As a note, I just recently used HEAD on a 7_STABLE box to test changes > >> recently to re for an updated PCIe revision NIC card on my Eee Box. > >> It worked fine (both runtime and my NIC which I then patched my > >> 7_STABLE tree which also worked, yea!). In a thread I started about > >> cross platform building, it seems that historically FreeBSD has had a > >> very stable ABI allowing multiple kernels to run underneath different > >> versions of user land (this is certainly not the case for all *NIX > >> variants). > > > > So stable that the things that break when you try and do this have > > made it into the FAQ: > > > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/troubleshoot.html#NLIST-FAILED > > > > Personally, I managed to try this once when the console driver needed > > a termcap entry change as well :-(. > > Oh c'mon now....if this is the worst of your problems, then you're > doing pretty darn good. I believe Linux binaries rely on the version > of glibc, an aux vec entry, and the way the kernel was actually built > to figure out whether to use syscall or int to hop into the kernel. I > mean things could be a lot worse!! :D! Sorry; I was actually agreeing with you. That it works well enough that there's a FAQ entry on the problems is a good indication that things won't be seriously broken. Nuts - they expect it to work well enough that running that way is part of the from-source upgrade process! What breaks are things in the base system that don't use the ABI, but poke around in the kernel directly, or otherwise expect to be in sync with some kernel behavior other than the ABI. However, just so the GNU/Linux people don't feel to bad, I'll note that the ABI stability really only applies to -STABLE. On -CURRENT, it changes (though I don't track -CURRENT these days, so don't know how bad things have been recently); there have been cases where the FILE * changed, meaning nothing from the old system that used stdio worked. This is why there's /usr/ports/misc/compat* - to make the old ABI available on new releases. We're still fairly close to the last split between -STABLE and -CURRENT; so it's not surprising that (as reported) it works. On the other hand, it's *not* a supported configuration, so that it works last week is at best indicative that it might work this week. There's no guarantee, and if you're left with a dead system - well, that's what you risked. The best way to try something like this is to use the nextboot utility to arrange to boot your "questionable" kernel once, as has already been suggested. That way, if it winds up totally busted, a reboot will automatically bring you back to your working kernel. http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From randy at psg.com Sat Jul 5 20:47:43 2008 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Sun Jul 6 02:02:03 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <20080705161614.O19209@fledge.watson.org> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> <20080705161614.O19209@fledge.watson.org> Message-ID: <486FDDED.20403@psg.com> > Sounds pretty much in line with what I was looking for. However, I > think I would like to see it be a bit more complete than sysinstall in > the area of geom partition labeling (concat/strip/raid/encryption), and > perhaps also ZFS support. I realize that adds complexity a fair amount, > but one of the biggest areas of feature lack in sysinstall today is that > you are basically stuck with the original BSD partition structure and > UFS, whereas we expect increasing numbers of users to deploy ZFS. We > don't have boot support currently, but being able to set up /data as a > ZFS file system would be great. Today, people have to do an initial > install on, say, a small boot partition and then relabel/deal with the > rest of the disk, boot a live CD, or worse, discover they have to > repartition, which really fails to expose some of the excellent > ease-of-use, auto-configuration, etc, features that we otherwise have in > this area. i suspect many folk installing zfs want a gmirrored boot partition, as i do. and setting zfs up is trivial next to doing a gmirrored boot on two small partitions on the two drives. but with the varied file system options and strategies we have, ufs, zfs, gmirror, crypted, ... i suspect that trying to get sysinstall to support us all is a path to having sysinstall need a dvd as opposed to a cd-rom. randy From mtm at wubethiopia.com Sun Jul 6 07:27:02 2008 From: mtm at wubethiopia.com (Mike Makonnen) Date: Sun Jul 6 07:27:09 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <20080705161614.O19209@fledge.watson.org> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> <20080705161614.O19209@fledge.watson.org> Message-ID: <487074AA.20103@wubethiopia.com> Robert Watson wrote: > On Sat, 5 Jul 2008, Mike Makonnen wrote: > >> The installer can already install a basic FreeBSD system (including >> the ports collection) from CD, UFS, or DOS partition. I'm currently >> working on getting FTP/HTTP/NFS installation to work. Next on my list >> after that is setting Date and Time Zone. At that stage the installer >> will be more or less feature-complete, and I can start code cleanup, >> getting it to work on additional architectures, etc. I had initially >> intended to include package installation as one of the criteria for >> feature-completeness, but after reading through this thread I've >> decided not to use sysinstall's package installation code and instead >> write one from scratch once I'm happy with the rest of the installer. > > Sounds pretty much in line with what I was looking for. However, I > think I would like to see it be a bit more complete than sysinstall in > the area of geom partition labeling (concat/strip/raid/encryption), > and perhaps also ZFS support. I realize that adds complexity a fair > amount, but one of the biggest areas of feature lack in sysinstall > today is that you are basically stuck with the original BSD partition > structure and UFS, whereas we expect increasing numbers of users to > deploy ZFS. We don't have boot support currently, but being able to > set up /data as a ZFS file system would be great. Today, people have > to do an initial install on, say, a small boot partition and then > relabel/deal with the rest of the disk, boot a live CD, or worse, > discover they have to repartition, which really fails to expose some > of the excellent ease-of-use, auto-configuration, etc, features that > we otherwise have in this area. I agree absolutely. I should have said ".... more or less feature-complete for a 1.0 release". Cheers. -- Mike Makonnen | GPG-KEY: http://people.freebsd.org/~mtm/mtm.asc mtm @ FreeBSD.Org | AC7B 5672 2D11 F4D0 EBF8 5279 5359 2B82 7CD4 1F55 FreeBSD | http://www.freebsd.org From keramida at ceid.upatras.gr Sun Jul 6 07:37:16 2008 From: keramida at ceid.upatras.gr (Giorgos Keramidas) Date: Sun Jul 6 07:37:23 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <20080703085629.GA1590@intserv.int1.b.intern> (Holger Kipp's message of "Thu, 3 Jul 2008 10:56:29 +0200") References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> <486C0928.8050607@yahoo.fr> <20080703085629.GA1590@intserv.int1.b.intern> Message-ID: <877ibzlb6u.fsf@kobe.laptop> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 10:56:29 +0200, Holger Kipp wrote: > Dear Antoine Brunel, > > I completely 100% agree. Actually I don't see the need for a new > sysinstall. It does what it needs to do. I have seen the later > RH- and SUSE-Installer, but I don't want them. What's the use of > a graphical installer? Graphical installers are not useless. They usually 'look' easier for the average user. They may not always _be_ easier to use, but it is often the first impression that counts. Localization tends to be easier for GUI installers too. Now, it may seem pretty useless for someone who knows English already, but a *lot* of people feel more comfortable with an installer that speaks their native language. After the installation is finished, English may be a lot more useful (think "manpages", for instance). But it still 'looks' nicer to be able to install in one's native language. > I am more than happy with sysinstall, have used it for years (starting > with 2.2.8 actually) and don't want to see a colorful chingeling > whistleblowing hard-to-maintain suitable for all graphics card gui > installer. Agreed :) From keramida at ceid.upatras.gr Sun Jul 6 07:47:45 2008 From: keramida at ceid.upatras.gr (Giorgos Keramidas) Date: Sun Jul 6 07:47:57 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war In-Reply-To: <30fc78250807032338p2388be7ax56e1ae38aaafadd8@mail.gmail.com> (Aggelidis Nikos's message of "Fri, 4 Jul 2008 09:38:37 +0300") References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> <486DA7FC.8050304@math.missouri.edu> <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> <486DB3CB.9000906@infoweapons.com> <30fc78250807032338p2388be7ax56e1ae38aaafadd8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <873amnlaia.fsf@kobe.laptop> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 09:38:37 +0300, "Aggelidis Nikos" wrote: >> I'm sorry I started a kind of flame war. All I wanted was two >> things: 1. CD's that installed without being switched in and out >> dozens of times. That was fixed by the suggestion of using a DVD. I >> didn't even know the DVD install existed, but will do that next time. > > I also had the same problem {cd switching} to get around it, i created > an installation DVD with all the contents of cd1-2-3. You can find > such guide Hi Nikos :) The DVD-ROM doesn't even have to be bootable. Just collecting all the `packages/All/*' files from the CD-ROMs in a single directory makes it much easier to run: # cd /nfs/blah ; pkg_add vim* From keramida at ceid.upatras.gr Sun Jul 6 07:51:30 2008 From: keramida at ceid.upatras.gr (Giorgos Keramidas) Date: Sun Jul 6 07:51:36 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war In-Reply-To: <3a142e750807040531k27938f0ay9bd9923ec57f3f1@mail.gmail.com> (Paul B. Mahol's message of "Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:31:51 +0200") References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> <868wwhhmms.fsf@ds4.des.no> <486E14F2.3060906@psg.com> <3a142e750807040531k27938f0ay9bd9923ec57f3f1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87y74fjvrl.fsf@kobe.laptop> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:31:51 +0200, "Paul B. Mahol" wrote: > On 7/4/08, Randy Bush wrote: >>> This is why there are precompiled packages on ftp.freebsd.org which you >>> can install with 'pkg_add -r'. You can install them from any FTP >>> mirror, actually; just point PACKAGEROOT at the mirror: >> >> why isn't this stuff in the docs? oh, it is! silly me. is the problem >> that there are just too much doc or two little reading? >> >> > > It is in pkg_add(1), If you are talking about handbook only > PACKAGESITE is documented: should get fixed. Hi Paul, Can you please open a docs/* problem report for this? Feel free to add `keramida' to the `X-GNATS-Notify:' header. I'll try to add at least a reference to pkg_add(1) to read more about the `PACKAGEROOT' environment variable. I'm just getting back from a 8-10 day period of ${offline_world} stuff, but it would be a shame to lose the opportunity to document this, because it got hidden in the `noise' of the mailing lists. From keramida at ceid.upatras.gr Sun Jul 6 08:00:50 2008 From: keramida at ceid.upatras.gr (Giorgos Keramidas) Date: Sun Jul 6 08:00:57 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war In-Reply-To: <87y74fjvrl.fsf@kobe.laptop> (Giorgos Keramidas's message of "Sun, 06 Jul 2008 10:51:10 +0300") References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> <868wwhhmms.fsf@ds4.des.no> <486E14F2.3060906@psg.com> <3a142e750807040531k27938f0ay9bd9923ec57f3f1@mail.gmail.com> <87y74fjvrl.fsf@kobe.laptop> Message-ID: <87bq1bigrf.fsf@kobe.laptop> On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 10:51:10 +0300, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:31:51 +0200, "Paul B. Mahol" wrote: >> On 7/4/08, Randy Bush wrote: >>>> This is why there are precompiled packages on ftp.freebsd.org which you >>>> can install with 'pkg_add -r'. You can install them from any FTP >>>> mirror, actually; just point PACKAGEROOT at the mirror: >>> >>> why isn't this stuff in the docs? oh, it is! silly me. is the problem >>> that there are just too much doc or two little reading? >>> >>> >> >> It is in pkg_add(1), If you are talking about handbook only >> PACKAGESITE is documented: should get fixed. > > Hi Paul, > > Can you please open a docs/* problem report for this? Feel free to add > `keramida' to the `X-GNATS-Notify:' header. I'll try to add at least a > reference to pkg_add(1) to read more about the `PACKAGEROOT' environment > variable. Nevermind, that was easy. I just opened a PR for it... From rwatson at FreeBSD.org Sun Jul 6 11:43:20 2008 From: rwatson at FreeBSD.org (Robert Watson) Date: Sun Jul 6 11:43:27 2008 Subject: kernel HEAD && userland 7.0-REL? In-Reply-To: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> References: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> Message-ID: <20080706124135.C44832@fledge.watson.org> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008, Matthias Apitz wrote: > I'm running a RELENG_7 kernel and a userland as 7.0-REL on one of my > laptops; I've been asked to check if a given driver problem in RELENG_7 is > as well with HEAD... can I update the kernel to HEAD and let the userland > (and all my compiled ports) as 7.0-REL; I know that this is not the > intention, but it would cost me a lot of work if I should compile as well > ~200 ports.... As a general rule, running old userspace on a new kernel works pretty well, but you should expect certain types of things to not work -- for example, monitoring tools that expect the kernel layout of data structures to be unchanged. Within a particular -STABLE branch this is a bit less volatile, but as you go from, say, 6-STABLE to a 7-STABLE kernel, the chances that some of the more obscure options to netstat, etc, will not work are pretty high. Likewise, be careful to disable any third-party kernel modules that may require recompiling but aren't caught by the base system build, or you'll get a nasty surprise when they panic. :-) Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From pisymbol at gmail.com Sun Jul 6 20:04:10 2008 From: pisymbol at gmail.com (Alexander Sack) Date: Sun Jul 6 20:04:17 2008 Subject: kernel HEAD && userland 7.0-REL? In-Reply-To: <20080706124135.C44832@fledge.watson.org> References: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080706124135.C44832@fledge.watson.org> Message-ID: <3c0b01820807061303m4afde83dhfe0cd693b6a235cc@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 7:43 AM, Robert Watson wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008, Matthias Apitz wrote: > >> I'm running a RELENG_7 kernel and a userland as 7.0-REL on one of my >> laptops; I've been asked to check if a given driver problem in RELENG_7 is >> as well with HEAD... can I update the kernel to HEAD and let the userland >> (and all my compiled ports) as 7.0-REL; I know that this is not the >> intention, but it would cost me a lot of work if I should compile as well >> ~200 ports.... > > As a general rule, running old userspace on a new kernel works pretty well, > but you should expect certain types of things to not work -- for example, > monitoring tools that expect the kernel layout of data structures to be > unchanged. Within a particular -STABLE branch this is a bit less volatile, > but as you go from, say, 6-STABLE to a 7-STABLE kernel, the chances that > some of the more obscure options to netstat, etc, will not work are pretty > high. Likewise, be careful to disable any third-party kernel modules that > may require recompiling but aren't caught by the base system build, or > you'll get a nasty surprise when they panic. :-) Robert, really good point. I ran into this exact problem not so long ago (third-party driver not supporting newer kernels, chaos ensued). I also think Mike's nextboot suggestion is one I (and others) should pay attention too. I tend to just install my test kernel blindly and if it fails, reboot and interrupt the boot, etc. - I will use nextboot for sure! -aps From beech at freebsd.org Sun Jul 6 21:44:24 2008 From: beech at freebsd.org (Beech Rintoul) Date: Sun Jul 6 21:44:30 2008 Subject: Help with copytree code In-Reply-To: <200805182355.24787.beech@freebsd.org> References: <200805182328.45822.beech@freebsd.org> <200805182355.24787.beech@freebsd.org> Message-ID: <200807061326.30152.beech@freebsd.org> On Sunday 18 May 2008, Beech Rintoul said: > On Sunday 18 May 2008, Beech Rintoul said: > > This copytree code is from bsd.port.mk, and I've been asked to > > try and find a fix. This is very handy for installing a whole > > tree (like a web app) keeping everything intact. It wasn't > > designed to copy to a populated directory so it affects > > everything in that dir, not just what's being installed. We need > > to keep it's > > functionality, but a fix is more than I can come up with. So I > > thought I'd ask you code gurus to help. If this can be fixed many > > will thank you! > > > > I attached it so it won't get line wrapped. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Beech > > Looks like it got stripped off, so I posted it here: > > http://www.alaskaparadise.com/freebsd/copytree_code I'd just like to thank stas@ and everyone who replied with suggestions, code etc. I believe that I now have something workable and it's been submitted to portmgr for review and possible inclusion in bsd.port.mk along with some new features of my own. Hopefully, this will fix a long standing problem with copytree_*. Once again thanks all :-) Beech -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Beech Rintoul - FreeBSD Developer - beech@FreeBSD.org /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | FreeBSD Since 4.x \ / - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail | http://www.freebsd.org X - NO Word docs in e-mail | Latest Release: / \ - http://www.FreeBSD.org/releases/7.0R/announce.html --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From MTaylor at bytecraft.com.au Mon Jul 7 00:27:59 2008 From: MTaylor at bytecraft.com.au (Murray Taylor) Date: Mon Jul 7 00:28:06 2008 Subject: massive interrupt storm Message-ID: <04E232FDCD9FBE43857F7066CAD3C0F15B81F6@svmailmel.bytecraft.internal> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > [mailto:owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of > Andrey V. Elsukov > Sent: Friday, 4 July 2008 4:33 PM > To: Murray Taylor > Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: massive interrupt storm > > Murray Taylor wrote: > > irq17: mpt0 uhci1* 680341376 57301 > > Did you try to disable USB in BIOS? (yes, you don't have PS/2, > but you can use SSH for testing) > Also did you try to disable ACPI? > > -- > WBR, Andrey V. Elsukov > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > ACPI and USB(Completely) have both been disabled and neither made any difference. - ACPI disabled in loader.conf ( hint.acpi.0.disabled=1 ) - USB disabled in BIOS Started to compile a new kernel without any USB functions, and left it for over 3 days and it was still compiling when I got back this morning, so I gave up on that one. mjt --------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted in this e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended addressee and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, dissemination or other use of it, or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons and/or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please inform the sender and/or addressee immediately and delete the material. E-mails may not be secure, may contain computer viruses and may be corrupted in transmission. Please carefully check this e-mail (and any attachment) accordingly. No warranties are given and no liability is accepted for any loss or damage caused by such matters. --------------------------------------------------------------- ### This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses by Bytecraft ### From babkin at verizon.net Sun Jul 6 23:52:46 2008 From: babkin at verizon.net (Sergey Babkin) Date: Mon Jul 7 00:28:46 2008 Subject: massive interrupt storm References: <04E232FDCD9FBE43857F7066CAD3C0F15B81D2@svmailmel.bytecraft.internal> Message-ID: <48714D8C.2AD7286D@verizon.net> Murray Taylor wrote: > > Hi all, > > We have just purchased some servers with a view to > using them as firewalls within our WAN, and have discovered that > they are suject to a massive interrupt storm on IRQ17. > > systat -v is showing 59000 -> 63000 interrupts continuously > on this IRQ, and 90%->98% Interrupt CPU usage One typical reason for "interrupt storms" is this: Some device has been initialized by BIOS and has indicated an interrupt but there is no driver in the OS to handle this interrupt. PCI allows sharing of the interrupts, i.e. multiple devices show their interrupts on the same IRQ line. The interrupt is signalled by level, i.e. if any device on this IRQ has an interrupt pending, it would pull the line low. OS has no way to tell which one, other than by trying all the drivers for the devices sitting on this line. Once the driver has found that its device is the one signalling interrupt, it services it, cleans the device state, and the device lets go of the IRQ line. The trouble starts when there is some device for which there is no driver. OS runs its interrupt handler, polls each driver, each of them says "nope, not mine", teh interrupt handler exits and gets called again right away. The fix is to disable the unsupported devices in BIOS or at least collect them on some IRQ line that is not used by any supported devices. -SB From guru at unixarea.de Mon Jul 7 12:19:41 2008 From: guru at unixarea.de (Matthias Apitz) Date: Mon Jul 7 12:19:48 2008 Subject: eeePC 900 && turning off wireless (ath0) In-Reply-To: <20080704144002.GA3661@rebelion.Sisis.de> References: <20080626075545.GA2964@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080626231603.GC6875@phi.local> <20080627080203.GA19602@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080627194447.GA34524@phi.local> <20080629160527.GA17075@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080629162234.GB1261@phi.local> <20080701090220.GA4431@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080701111426.GA1152@phi.local> <20080704144002.GA3661@rebelion.Sisis.de> Message-ID: <20080707121937.GA15609@rebelion.Sisis.de> El d?a Friday, July 04, 2008 a las 04:40:02PM +0200, Matthias Apitz escribi?: > Hello Rui, > > With your changes of acpi_asus.c in RELENG_7 the devd(8) and my > hook-script in /usr/local/etc/devd/ath.conf sees the Fn+F2 now as the > event "ACPI ASUS-Eee _SB_.ATKD", but it is anyway if Fn+F2 switches off > or on the wireless NIC, the event for devd(8) is always the same; > from the above event it is clear where > the strings for system ACPI and subsystem ASUS-Eee come from, but I > don't see where the string "_SB_.ATKD" is made; it must be derived > from the 'notify' argument of the call > > /* Notify devd(8) */ > acpi_UserNotify("ASUS-Eee", h, notify); > > and I was hoping to distinguish it into two different events, one when > Fn+F2 is switching off the NIC, and one of the case of switch on; any > idea? thx I have modified /usr/src/sys/dev/acpi_support/acpi_asus.c to see what 'notify' is send upstream to devd(8): /* Notify devd(8) */ device_printf(sc->dev, "Fn+F2 pressed, notify to devd(8) is %08x\n", notify); acpi_UserNotify("ASUS-Eee", h, notify); and it turns out that in case of switching wireless of it is 0x00000011, while on switch-on it is 0x00000010; but the devd(8) only sees both events as '_SB_.ATKD'; I've grep'ed a lot around but can't see the place where the hex events of acpi_UserNotify() are converted into the string '_SB_.ATKD', any idea where to look; for the devd(8) hook it would be essential to know if the wireless was turned on of off, to load or unload the driver module if_ath.ko in that case and bring the interface up again (which works fine if I do it by hand); matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/ ?...una sola vez, que es cuanto basta si se trata de verdades definitivas.? ?...only once, which is enough if it has todo with definite truth.? Jos? Saramago, Historia del Cerca de Lisboa From riaank at gmail.com Mon Jul 7 12:38:35 2008 From: riaank at gmail.com (Riaan Kruger) Date: Mon Jul 7 12:38:43 2008 Subject: kgdb error: Ignoring packet error, continuing.... In-Reply-To: <20080703044723.BD564B69@resin11.mta.everyone.net> References: <20080703044723.BD564B69@resin11.mta.everyone.net> Message-ID: <85c4b1850807070513i3c6d8f63x4e89ebe559be0330@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 1:47 PM, karim sk wrote: > > Hi, > > I am trying to setup kgdb on serial console in freebsd. I have done > the following steps. > > 1. Compile the kernel with the following options > options DDB > options KDB > makeoptions DEBUG-g > > 2.Installed the kernel on the target machine. > 3. Transferred the kernel.debug to host machine. > 4. Modified the file /boot/device.hints in the target machine to have > sio flags as > hint.sio.0.at="isa" > hint.sio.0.port="0X3F8" > hint.sio.0.flags="0x80" > hint.sio.0.irq="4" > 5. Reboot the target machine. At the loader prompt type the following > set comconsole_speed=9600 > boot -d > Then the target machine stops at ddb> prompt. > 6.In the host machine type the following at kgdb prompt > kgdb> set remotebaud 9600 > kgdb> file kernel.debug > kgdb> target remote /dev/cuad0 > > This is not able to establish the connection. > It is giving following errors. > Ignoring packet error, continuing... > Ignoring packet error, continuing... > Couldn't establish connection to remote target. > Malformed response to offset query, timeout. > > Can any body tell why packet error is coming when kgdb is trying to > establish the connection. > > Thanks in advance. > > Karim I am not sure if it will help but according to on http://www.lemis.com/grog/Papers/Debug-tutorial/tutorial.pdf the target : "You choose a serial port by setting bit 0x80 of the device flags in /boot/loader.conf : hint.sio.0.flags="0x90" In this example, bit 0x10 is also set to tell the kernel gdb stub to access remote debugging via this port." Hope it helps Riaan PS. Sorry previous reply was only to Karin and not to the list as well. From rpaulo at FreeBSD.org Mon Jul 7 12:47:11 2008 From: rpaulo at FreeBSD.org (Rui Paulo) Date: Mon Jul 7 12:47:18 2008 Subject: eeePC 900 && turning off wireless (ath0) In-Reply-To: <20080707121937.GA15609@rebelion.Sisis.de> References: <20080626075545.GA2964@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080626231603.GC6875@phi.local> <20080627080203.GA19602@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080627194447.GA34524@phi.local> <20080629160527.GA17075@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080629162234.GB1261@phi.local> <20080701090220.GA4431@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080701111426.GA1152@phi.local> <20080704144002.GA3661@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080707121937.GA15609@rebelion.Sisis.de> Message-ID: <20080707124538.GA1752@phi.local> On Mon, Jul 07, 2008 at 02:19:37PM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote: > /* Notify devd(8) */ > device_printf(sc->dev, > "Fn+F2 pressed, notify to devd(8) is %08x\n", notify); > acpi_UserNotify("ASUS-Eee", h, notify); > > and it turns out that in case of switching wireless of it is 0x00000011, > while on switch-on it is 0x00000010; but the devd(8) only sees both > events as '_SB_.ATKD'; I've grep'ed a lot around but can't see the place > where the hex events of acpi_UserNotify() are converted into the string > '_SB_.ATKD', any idea where to look; They are not converted, your devd.conf entries are probably wrong. Can you show again where do you get _SB_.ATKD from? -- Rui Paulo From guru at unixarea.de Mon Jul 7 13:13:44 2008 From: guru at unixarea.de (Matthias Apitz) Date: Mon Jul 7 13:13:50 2008 Subject: eeePC 900 && turning off wireless (ath0) In-Reply-To: <20080707124538.GA1752@phi.local> References: <20080626231603.GC6875@phi.local> <20080627080203.GA19602@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080627194447.GA34524@phi.local> <20080629160527.GA17075@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080629162234.GB1261@phi.local> <20080701090220.GA4431@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080701111426.GA1152@phi.local> <20080704144002.GA3661@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080707121937.GA15609@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080707124538.GA1752@phi.local> Message-ID: <20080707131341.GA12862@rebelion.Sisis.de> El d?a Monday, July 07, 2008 a las 01:45:38PM +0100, Rui Paulo escribi?: > On Mon, Jul 07, 2008 at 02:19:37PM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote: > > /* Notify devd(8) */ > > device_printf(sc->dev, > > "Fn+F2 pressed, notify to devd(8) is %08x\n", notify); > > acpi_UserNotify("ASUS-Eee", h, notify); > > > > and it turns out that in case of switching wireless of it is 0x00000011, > > while on switch-on it is 0x00000010; but the devd(8) only sees both > > events as '_SB_.ATKD'; I've grep'ed a lot around but can't see the place > > where the hex events of acpi_UserNotify() are converted into the string > > '_SB_.ATKD', any idea where to look; > > They are not converted, your devd.conf entries are probably wrong. > > Can you show again where do you get _SB_.ATKD from? You are right! my file /usr/local/etc/devd/ath.conf for devd(8) says now: tify 1 { match "system" "ACPI"; action "/usr/local/etc/devd/ath.sh $system $subsystem $notify"; }; notify 1 { match "system" "IFNET"; match "subsystem" "ath0"; match "type" "LINK_UP"; action "/usr/local/etc/devd/ath.sh $system $subsystem $type"; }; notify 1 { match "system" "IFNET"; match "subsystem" "ath0"; match "type" "LINK_DOWN"; action "/usr/local/etc/devd/ath.sh $system $subsystem $type"; }; note that in the case of "IFNET" you have to watch the $type to see LINK_UP or LINK_DOWN as the events, while in "ACPI" you have to watch the $notify ($type gives you _SB_.ATKD, $notify gives you 0x10 or 0x11); thanks for the answer which let me look closer into the man page of devd.conf; matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/ ?...una sola vez, que es cuanto basta si se trata de verdades definitivas.? ?...only once, which is enough if it has todo with definite truth.? Jos? Saramago, Historia del Cerca de Lisboa From davidcollins001 at gmail.com Mon Jul 7 14:21:52 2008 From: davidcollins001 at gmail.com (David Collins) Date: Mon Jul 7 14:21:59 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years Message-ID: <1b30fd140807070655o5f5887b6k2ae11b03a0fb0bb3@mail.gmail.com> I have just moved to freeBSD from debian (and obviously windows before that) I also have OS X. I reinstalled OS X for my girlfriend and there is nothing to be done, it is so easy.... but .... I also don't have a clue what it does, and have no real reason to find out. The freeBSD (7.0) install I thought was fairly easy! Admitedly I did go into it assuming it was the same as debian, and if it didn't look the same well assume it is the same anyway. The only tricky part is the disk setup, but without knowing anything about slices and partitions I closed my eyes and went ahead managing to get it working (I learned about slices after). I do only have a base system installed, and I don't like installing from sysinstall. It is very slow. It didn't take too much effort to find out how the ports system works, it was just difficult determining which path to choose since there are a number of ways to update. I was really surprised when my wireless card worked, linux was a pain! Even knowing how to set it up it still requires install wireless-tools, wpa_supplicant and then making it work on boot. None of this on freeBSD. I think *BSD and linux is more for the tech savy, and if you make it too easy people assume everything is done for them and they become illiterate. David (one happy new freeBSD user) From ravi.murty at intel.com Mon Jul 7 18:30:42 2008 From: ravi.murty at intel.com (Murty, Ravi) Date: Mon Jul 7 18:30:50 2008 Subject: Bug in calcru in he 6.2 and 6.3 kernels Message-ID: Hello everyone, Finally found what my last problem was. We were running top in a loop and running some workloads that called sched_bind() to bind threads to specific CPUs. The problem was that (and I am using ULE) sched_bind calls a function to notify another CPU of a thread and then mi_switches out of it. Since mi_switch sets the "oncpu" field of the thread to NOCPU and given the thread is still running, calcru would come in and assert the fact that "If I am running I better no be on NOCPU".. It appears that in other parts of the kernel (e.g. forward_signal) this is acceptable (i.e. it is okay to be running and oncpu is NOCPU). Thanks Ravi From kris at FreeBSD.org Mon Jul 7 18:33:57 2008 From: kris at FreeBSD.org (Kris Kennaway) Date: Mon Jul 7 18:34:03 2008 Subject: Bug in calcru in he 6.2 and 6.3 kernels In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48726193.1080807@FreeBSD.org> Murty, Ravi wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > Finally found what my last problem was. We were running top in a loop > and running some workloads that called sched_bind() to bind threads to > specific CPUs. The problem was that (and I am using ULE) sched_bind > calls a function to notify another CPU of a thread and then mi_switches > out of it. Since mi_switch sets the "oncpu" field of the thread to NOCPU > and given the thread is still running, calcru would come in and assert > the fact that "If I am running I better no be on NOCPU".. It appears > that in other parts of the kernel (e.g. forward_signal) this is > acceptable (i.e. it is okay to be running and oncpu is NOCPU). > > > > Thanks > Ravi Don't use ULE in 6.x, it's broken and will not be fixed. Kris From fjwcash at gmail.com Mon Jul 7 19:23:51 2008 From: fjwcash at gmail.com (Freddie Cash) Date: Mon Jul 7 19:23:58 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 7:59 AM, Mike Makonnen wrote: > Also, the installer's job should only be to install a useable system. Post-installation chores like configuration, > adding/removing users, etc should be done by another application. You shouldn't need the installer once > you've installed the OS. Hear, hear! To be honest, this is the only bit about the current sysinstall that I really dislike: the fact that it can be used for post-installation configuration and package installation. This causes no end of trouble for newbies, who seem to view sysinstall as "The One True System Admin Tool" and try to use it for configuring/installing everything. Too many times, on various BSD forums, I've had to walk people through cleaning up /etc/rc.conf and showing them how to correctly install/configure things (using standard FreeBSD tools), since they used sysinstall for everything. IMO, the installer should allow you to partition the disk(s), format the partition(s), install the OS, configure a user, and reboot the system. Anything beyond that should be handled by the OS tools, from within the installed and running OS. The tricky part will be getting the disk slicing, slice partitioning, and filesystem formatting to work reliably, with all the power of FreeBSD's GEOM modules, and ZFS. -- Freddie Cash fjwcash@gmail.com From dillon at apollo.backplane.com Mon Jul 7 19:54:55 2008 From: dillon at apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Mon Jul 7 19:55:01 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years References: <20080703212100.GA16598@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <200807071954.m67JsrXA030964@apollo.backplane.com> :... :minimalist people, while a graphical installer running on top of a :live CD, like in many Linux distributions, Ubuntu, etc. could be :envisioned. The DragonFlyBSD installer runs on top of a live CD, this is :the easiest way to have a full featured installer, but this requires a :machine with sufficient RAM. Anyways all those possibilities point to :the soundness of your propositions 1) and 2). : :-- : :Michel TALON Well, its actually more an issue of the space used on the CD, since the base system is not compressed on the media. DragonFly doesn't try to include all that many packages on its CD, so there is plenty of space. Our distribution CD's run about 300MB. There is some movement on getting a DVD distribution together and including a lot of packages on it. I think that's the way to go if a fully loaded dist is desired. The packages would be stored on the DVD as binary packages (hence compressed), but everything else would be live. As media gets larger the live portion of the distribution becomes a smaller and smaller piece of it. It's a lot easier to enhance and maintain a live distribution then it is a compressed one. Actual system memory use is tiny. Remember, only dirty data eats real memory, clean pages can simply be freed, so the the run-time footprint is not really all that large. And, frankly, anyone with a machine with 32MB of ram or less is not likely to care about direct-from-CD installs. They'd more likely be installing from a bootable USB memory stick (which runs $14 for 2G these days), or some other media. The box might not even have a CD drive, but it will certainly have USB ports. So what it comes down to is having a release build that is easy to extend and enhance, and doesn't shoot itself in the foot. You want to be able to use the same release infrastructure for all release targets. Compression of the base system creates lots and lots of unnecessary headaches. -Matt Matthew Dillon From kris at FreeBSD.org Mon Jul 7 20:06:33 2008 From: kris at FreeBSD.org (Kris Kennaway) Date: Mon Jul 7 20:12:42 2008 Subject: CFT: BSD-licensed grep [Fwd: cvs commit: ports/textproc/bsdgrep Makefile distinfo] In-Reply-To: <48598C6D.4040102@FreeBSD.org> References: <4855EDFE.3010708@FreeBSD.org> <86bq211rqw.fsf@ds4.des.no> <20080617002224.GA16122@nagual.pp.ru> <20080617002808.GB16122@nagual.pp.ru> <20080617004647.GA16546@nagual.pp.ru> <48576610.9080808@FreeBSD.org> <48577510.4020007@aueb.gr> <48577BD2.4070205@bluemedia.pl> <20080617102900.GA46479@nagual.pp.ru> <485798C4.2050605@FreeBSD.org> <20080618055851.GA85018@nagual.pp.ru> <86zlpjduew.fsf@ds4.des.no> <48598C6D.4040102@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <48727747.7070509@FreeBSD.org> Maxim Sobolev wrote: > Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: >> Andrey Chernov writes: >>> "BSD sort" as an idea will be a good project indeed, but "BSD sort" >>> implementation we currently have at hand is totally misleading and >>> should be rewritten from the scratch, I realize it when long time ago >>> I try to localize it for single byte locales. >> >> I think part of the problem is that there aren't enough people who truly >> understand localization. I think I understand most of it, but I'm >> pretty sure I *don't* understand how collation works, or is supposed to >> work. Amongst other things, I don't understand how (or whether) it >> handles cases like "aa" and "?", which are considered the same letter in >> Norwegian. >> >> Perhaps you could create a Localization page on wiki.freebsd.org which >> addresses these issues, or at least points to relevant resources? > > Good regression test suite which would include cases in different single > and multi-byte locates for grep/sort/etc could also be a big help. What regression suites do other implementations have? e.g. the GNU textutils. Kris From ache at nagual.pp.ru Mon Jul 7 20:15:16 2008 From: ache at nagual.pp.ru (Andrey Chernov) Date: Mon Jul 7 20:19:11 2008 Subject: CFT: BSD-licensed grep [Fwd: cvs commit: ports/textproc/bsdgrep Makefile distinfo] In-Reply-To: <48727747.7070509@FreeBSD.org> References: <20080617004647.GA16546@nagual.pp.ru> <48576610.9080808@FreeBSD.org> <48577510.4020007@aueb.gr> <48577BD2.4070205@bluemedia.pl> <20080617102900.GA46479@nagual.pp.ru> <485798C4.2050605@FreeBSD.org> <20080618055851.GA85018@nagual.pp.ru> <86zlpjduew.fsf@ds4.des.no> <48598C6D.4040102@FreeBSD.org> <48727747.7070509@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <20080707201447.GA37354@nagual.pp.ru> On Mon, Jul 07, 2008 at 10:06:31PM +0200, Kris Kennaway wrote: > What regression suites do other implementations have? e.g. the GNU > textutils. They basically have regex tests, but nothing locale specific, since locale ordering is different from platform to platform (until Unicode Collation Algorithm will win). -- http://ache.pp.ru/ From delphij at delphij.net Mon Jul 7 20:36:27 2008 From: delphij at delphij.net (Xin LI) Date: Mon Jul 7 20:36:34 2008 Subject: Bug in calcru in he 6.2 and 6.3 kernels In-Reply-To: <48726193.1080807@FreeBSD.org> References: <48726193.1080807@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <48727E37.30700@delphij.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Kris Kennaway wrote: | Murty, Ravi wrote: |> Hello everyone, |> |> |> |> Finally found what my last problem was. We were running top in a loop |> and running some workloads that called sched_bind() to bind threads to |> specific CPUs. The problem was that (and I am using ULE) sched_bind |> calls a function to notify another CPU of a thread and then mi_switches |> out of it. Since mi_switch sets the "oncpu" field of the thread to NOCPU |> and given the thread is still running, calcru would come in and assert |> the fact that "If I am running I better no be on NOCPU".. It appears |> that in other parts of the kernel (e.g. forward_signal) this is |> acceptable (i.e. it is okay to be running and oncpu is NOCPU). |> |> |> Thanks |> Ravi | | Don't use ULE in 6.x, it's broken and will not be fixed. Perhaps we should mark it as broken using #error? After all the ULE changes in 7.x is amazing and we do not want to have users to obtain bad impressions from the 6.x versions... I am not sure but some explicit warning message saying "ULE has been revamped in FreeBSD 7.x+ and will not be MFC'ed back to 6.x, please use SCHED_4BSD or upgrade to 7.x." seems to be better than having them to pursue the mailing list archive... Cheers, - -- Xin LI http://www.delphij.net/ FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkhyfjYACgkQi+vbBBjt66CdLQCfet8ls7tfg5jV5I7gSOw8QwhC maoAn2sBwjfoOBhFt6u5fELK9X6XMp0A =Bxr3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kris at FreeBSD.org Mon Jul 7 20:39:51 2008 From: kris at FreeBSD.org (Kris Kennaway) Date: Mon Jul 7 20:50:08 2008 Subject: CFT: BSD-licensed grep [Fwd: cvs commit: ports/textproc/bsdgrep Makefile distinfo] In-Reply-To: <20080707201447.GA37354@nagual.pp.ru> References: <20080617004647.GA16546@nagual.pp.ru> <48576610.9080808@FreeBSD.org> <48577510.4020007@aueb.gr> <48577BD2.4070205@bluemedia.pl> <20080617102900.GA46479@nagual.pp.ru> <485798C4.2050605@FreeBSD.org> <20080618055851.GA85018@nagual.pp.ru> <86zlpjduew.fsf@ds4.des.no> <48598C6D.4040102@FreeBSD.org> <48727747.7070509@FreeBSD.org> <20080707201447.GA37354@nagual.pp.ru> Message-ID: <48727F14.6090507@FreeBSD.org> Andrey Chernov wrote: > On Mon, Jul 07, 2008 at 10:06:31PM +0200, Kris Kennaway wrote: >> What regression suites do other implementations have? e.g. the GNU >> textutils. > > They basically have regex tests, but nothing locale specific, since locale > ordering is different from platform to platform (until Unicode Collation > Algorithm will win). > OK. Well at least it is a start - passing those existing regression tests should be a goal. Kris From kris at FreeBSD.org Mon Jul 7 21:04:12 2008 From: kris at FreeBSD.org (Kris Kennaway) Date: Mon Jul 7 21:04:19 2008 Subject: Bug in calcru in he 6.2 and 6.3 kernels In-Reply-To: <48727E37.30700@delphij.net> References: <48726193.1080807@FreeBSD.org> <48727E37.30700@delphij.net> Message-ID: <487284CA.4050407@FreeBSD.org> Xin LI wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Kris Kennaway wrote: > | Murty, Ravi wrote: > |> Hello everyone, > |> > |> > |> > |> Finally found what my last problem was. We were running top in a loop > |> and running some workloads that called sched_bind() to bind threads to > |> specific CPUs. The problem was that (and I am using ULE) sched_bind > |> calls a function to notify another CPU of a thread and then mi_switches > |> out of it. Since mi_switch sets the "oncpu" field of the thread to NOCPU > |> and given the thread is still running, calcru would come in and assert > |> the fact that "If I am running I better no be on NOCPU".. It appears > |> that in other parts of the kernel (e.g. forward_signal) this is > |> acceptable (i.e. it is okay to be running and oncpu is NOCPU). > |> > |> > |> Thanks > |> Ravi > | > | Don't use ULE in 6.x, it's broken and will not be fixed. > > Perhaps we should mark it as broken using #error? After all the ULE > changes in 7.x is amazing and we do not want to have users to obtain bad > impressions from the 6.x versions... > > I am not sure but some explicit warning message saying "ULE has been > revamped in FreeBSD 7.x+ and will not be MFC'ed back to 6.x, please use > SCHED_4BSD or upgrade to 7.x." seems to be better than having them to > pursue the mailing list archive... I would agree with this; if you're happy running unstable and broken scheduler code, you're surely able to update to 7.0 and run stable and working scheduler code :) We should run it past re@ first since it's a change to a stable branch, but it's experimental code so I don't see an issue. Kris From gabor at FreeBSD.org Mon Jul 7 20:56:38 2008 From: gabor at FreeBSD.org (Gabor Kovesdan) Date: Mon Jul 7 21:23:45 2008 Subject: CFT: BSD-licensed grep [Fwd: cvs commit: ports/textproc/bsdgrep Makefile distinfo] In-Reply-To: <48727F14.6090507@FreeBSD.org> References: <20080617004647.GA16546@nagual.pp.ru> <48576610.9080808@FreeBSD.org> <48577510.4020007@aueb.gr> <48577BD2.4070205@bluemedia.pl> <20080617102900.GA46479@nagual.pp.ru> <485798C4.2050605@FreeBSD.org> <20080618055851.GA85018@nagual.pp.ru> <86zlpjduew.fsf@ds4.des.no> <48598C6D.4040102@FreeBSD.org> <48727747.7070509@FreeBSD.org> <20080707201447.GA37354@nagual.pp.ru> <48727F14.6090507@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <48728301.5070403@FreeBSD.org> Kris Kennaway escribi?: > Andrey Chernov wrote: >> On Mon, Jul 07, 2008 at 10:06:31PM +0200, Kris Kennaway wrote: >>> What regression suites do other implementations have? e.g. the GNU >>> textutils. >> >> They basically have regex tests, but nothing locale specific, since >> locale ordering is different from platform to platform (until Unicode >> Collation Algorithm will win). >> > > OK. Well at least it is a start - passing those existing regression > tests should be a goal. Well, it seems you have missed the first nits of the discussion. GNU grep has some regression test, which doesn't pass completely itself either. :) I've mentioned here that I used those tests to find out what incompatible options are there. Unfortunately, I have to say that BSD grep won't pass all of those, because GNU allows some non-standard regexes, which are rejected by our libc-regex library, like for example (a|) is not standard because it has an empty subexpression. First, I tried to pre-edit such expression in the code. It was ugly enough but I thought: "Ok, this code is pretty ugly, but compatibility is important, maybe we can later revise and/or change our regexp library and get rid of these snippets." Later, when Andrey pointed it out, I realized that my workarounds adressed those incompatibilities but didn't work completely, they broke compatibility at other places, thus I just removed them, because it was not that easy to fix. The version that I sent you for the portbuild test, doesn't have those workarounds. The regression test helped though to fix other compatibility issues, like return values. All of these trivial things are supposed to be compatible now, the only exceptions are the non-standard regexes. That's why I'm so curious about the results. If they are inacceptable, we can try to build BSD grep with the GNU regexp lib (it's in the tree, as Pedro F. Giffuni pointed it out). It doesn't work by just linking with that library, so it will need more work and investigation then, not speaking about that GNU regex should go one day... Regards, G?bor From soralx at cydem.org Tue Jul 8 05:37:26 2008 From: soralx at cydem.org (soralx@cydem.org) Date: Tue Jul 8 05:37:33 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> Message-ID: <20080707213625.69bb0bf4@soralx> > Hear, hear! To be honest, this is the only bit about the current > sysinstall that I really dislike: the fact that it can be used for > post-installation configuration and package installation. This causes > no end of trouble for newbies, who seem to view sysinstall as "The One > True System Admin Tool" and try to use it for configuring/installing > everything. Too many times, on various BSD forums, I've had to walk > people through cleaning up /etc/rc.conf and showing them how to > correctly install/configure things (using standard FreeBSD tools), > since they used sysinstall for everything. That may be true, but sysinstall did help me do basic, essentical configuration of my very first installed system, and a few installs after that (until I learned about /etc/rc.conf et al). And I never regarded it as The One True Sysadmin Tool, because I did not use Linux distros, thus never got used to their ways. It's just that the simple configuration menu really helped me to get a useful system running in a few minutes (though menu items certainly could make use of more verbose descriptions). And then I could play with the working system and learn ways to configure it. So, IMHO, a basic curses system configuration utility is still needed, and should be run after sysinstall or it should tell the user how to run it (maybe in motd, or sysinstall itself?). > IMO, the installer should allow you to partition the disk(s), format > the partition(s), install the OS, configure a user, and reboot the > system. Anything beyond that should be handled by the OS tools, from > within the installed and running OS. > > The tricky part will be getting the disk slicing, slice partitioning, > and filesystem formatting to work reliably, with all the power of > FreeBSD's GEOM modules, and ZFS. [SorAlx] ridin' VS1400 From fernando.apesteguia at gmail.com Tue Jul 8 07:11:53 2008 From: fernando.apesteguia at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Apestegu=EDa?=) Date: Tue Jul 8 07:12:01 2008 Subject: FreeBSD 7 64 bits kernel crash debugging In-Reply-To: <3c0b01820807030752p212c3f17i236004c37bc39016@mail.gmail.com> References: <1bd550a00807020950x24af0f8n6d2a9c66f14f1cfd@mail.gmail.com> <3c0b01820807030752p212c3f17i236004c37bc39016@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1bd550a00807080011j3355b80ame4de6c3546b04f4b@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Alexander Sack wrote: > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 12:50 PM, Fernando Apestegu?a > wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I'm experiencing several kernel crashes with the GENERIC kernel and >> with custom kernels as well. One of my MP3 players seems to be >> recognized, but if I disconnect it from the USB port (even without >> mounting the device), I got a kernel crash. >> >> I've tried to follow the instructions at >> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/developers-handbook/kerneldebug.html >> I have dumpdev and dumpdir properly set to my swap partition (ad0s2b) >> and to /var/crash. >> >> However, during the next boot, I got a message that indicates it is >> looking for a dump on such device but it couldn't find any. >> >> How can I track this error? > > Have you enabled at least KDB/DDB debugger support so you can look at > a stack trace ("t") and post this? This will at least give us/you > some idea on what is crashing... No, running GENERIC kernel. > > Add minimally to your kernel build conf file: > > options DDB > options KDB > > Rebuild, reboot, and test. I'm not sure why a crash dump is not > working. Have you tried specifying your dump device in your kernel > config file? Hi, First of all sorry for the delay, but my ISP is pissing me off since a couple of days and I don't have either telephone, nor Internet connection :S Anyway, I managed to recompile the kernel with debugging support. I provoked the panic and here is the trace: db> t Tracing pid 2 tid 100006 td 0xffffff0001096340 xpt_done() at xpt_done+0x54 cam_periph_runccb() at cam_periph_runccb+0x46 daprevent() at daprevent+0x80 daclose() at daclose+0x164 g_disk_access() at g_disk_access+0x107 g_access() at g_access+0x188 g_bsd_taste() at g_bsd_taste+0xdc g_new_provider_event() at g_new_provider_event+0x75 g_run_events() at g_run_events+0x1c7 g_event_procbody() at g_event_procbody+0x56 fork_exit() at fork_exit+0x11e fork_trampoline() at fork_trampoline()+0xe --- trap 0, rip = 0, rsp = 0xffffffffa0574d30, rbp = 0 --- The chain of events that leads to this panic is as follows: 1.- I plug the mp3 player in 2.- I see console messages about the device (size, transfer speed, etc). It is assigned the da0 device 3.- I list /dev and ther is no da0 (kernel still busy doing something?) 4.- After waiting some time (even minutes) I unplug the mp3 player and I got the crash. Thanks in advance. > > Let us know, > > -aps > From MTaylor at bytecraft.com.au Tue Jul 8 07:21:42 2008 From: MTaylor at bytecraft.com.au (Murray Taylor) Date: Tue Jul 8 07:21:49 2008 Subject: massive interrupt storm Message-ID: <04E232FDCD9FBE43857F7066CAD3C0F15B8264@svmailmel.bytecraft.internal> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > [mailto:owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Sergey Babkin > Sent: Monday, 7 July 2008 8:56 AM > To: Murray Taylor > Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: massive interrupt storm > > Murray Taylor wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > We have just purchased some servers with a view to > > using them as firewalls within our WAN, and have discovered that > > they are suject to a massive interrupt storm on IRQ17. > > > > systat -v is showing 59000 -> 63000 interrupts continuously > > on this IRQ, and 90%->98% Interrupt CPU usage > > One typical reason for "interrupt storms" is this: > > Some device has been initialized by BIOS and has indicated > an interrupt but there is no driver in the OS to handle this > interrupt. PCI allows sharing of the interrupts, i.e. multiple > devices show their interrupts on the same IRQ line. The interrupt > is signalled by level, i.e. if any device on this IRQ has an > interrupt pending, it would pull the line low. OS has no way > to tell which one, other than by trying all the drivers for > the devices sitting on this line. Once the driver has found > that its device is the one signalling interrupt, it services > it, cleans the device state, and the device lets go of the > IRQ line. > > The trouble starts when there is some device for which there > is no driver. OS runs its interrupt handler, polls each driver, > each of them says "nope, not mine", teh interrupt handler exits > and gets called again right away. The fix is to disable the > unsupported devices in BIOS or at least collect them on some > IRQ line that is not used by any supported devices. > > -SB > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" vmstat -i output interrupt total rate irq1: atkbd0 78 0 irq6: fdc0 3 0 irq16: uhci0 ehci0 3 0 irq17: mpt0 uhci1* 680341376 57301 irq21: bge0 11806 0 cpu0: timer 23737523 1999 Total 704090789 59301 > > Did you try to disable USB in BIOS? (yes, you don't have PS/2, > but you can use SSH for testing) yes > Also did you try to disable ACPI? yes I have attached the output from lspci and pciconf .. We have variously shutdown all USB in the bios, pulled the Raid daughter board, and still cant solve this storm. Currently looking for the SMB 'kill switch' .. And will also look into the SATA chips, but with not much hope (soldering iron anyone?) A point or two -- we get bge0 but not bge1 under FreeBSD, and FresBSD 4.11, 6.2 and 7.0 all exhibit the same problem. The box seems to work with knoppix, insofar as we DO get both NICs and dont seem to get the storm. This data (knoppix) is a bit flakey as it was late at night so we didnt look too hard after the NICs came up. mjt --------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted in this e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended addressee and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, dissemination or other use of it, or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons and/or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please inform the sender and/or addressee immediately and delete the material. 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No warranties are given and no liability is accepted for any loss or damage caused by such matters. --------------------------------------------------------------- ### This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses by Bytecraft ### -------------- next part -------------- Script started on Tue Jul 8 14:02:57 2008 gwfort27# lspci -bv 00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Server DRAM Controller (rev 01) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0 Capabilities: [e0] Vendor Specific Information 00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Server Host-Primary PCI Express Bridge (rev 01) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode]) Flags: fast devsel Bus: primary=00, secondary=04, subordinate=04, sec-latency=0 Capabilities: [88] Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Capabilities: [80] Power Management version 3 Capabilities: [90] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask- 64bit- Queue=0/0 Enable- Capabilities: [a0] Express Root Port (Slot+), MSI 00 00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation PCI Express Port 1 (rev 02) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode]) Flags: fast devsel Bus: primary=00, secondary=08, subordinate=08, sec-latency=0 Capabilities: [40] Express Root Port (Slot+), MSI 00 Capabilities: [80] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask- 64bit- Queue=0/0 Enable- Capabilities: [90] Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Capabilities: [a0] Power Management version 2 00:1c.4 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation PCI Express Port 5 (rev 02) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode]) Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0 Bus: primary=00, secondary=02, subordinate=02, sec-latency=0 Memory behind bridge: e8200000-e82fffff Capabilities: [40] Express Root Port (Slot+), MSI 00 Capabilities: [80] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask- 64bit- Queue=0/0 Enable- Capabilities: [90] Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Capabilities: [a0] Power Management version 2 00:1c.5 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation PCI Express Port 6 (rev 02) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode]) Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0 Bus: primary=00, secondary=01, subordinate=01, sec-latency=0 I/O behind bridge: 00002000-00002fff Memory behind bridge: e8300000-e83fffff Capabilities: [40] Express Root Port (Slot+), MSI 00 Capabilities: [80] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask- 64bit- Queue=0/0 Enable- Capabilities: [90] Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Capabilities: [a0] Power Management version 2 00:1d.0 USB Controller: Intel Corporation USB UHCI Controller #1 (rev 02) (prog-if 00 [UHCI]) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 16 I/O ports at 1820 Capabilities: [50] PCIe advanced features 00:1d.1 USB Controller: Intel Corporation USB UHCI Controller #2 (rev 02) (prog-if 00 [UHCI]) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 17 I/O ports at 1840 Capabilities: [50] PCIe advanced features 00:1d.2 USB Controller: Intel Corporation USB UHCI Controller #3 (rev 02) (prog-if 00 [UHCI]) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 18 I/O ports at 1860 Capabilities: [50] PCIe advanced features 00:1d.7 USB Controller: Intel Corporation USB2 EHCI Controller #1 (rev 02) (prog-if 20 [EHCI]) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 16 Memory at e8500000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 2 Capabilities: [58] Debug port: BAR=1 offset=00a0 Capabilities: [98] PCIe advanced features 00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge (rev 92) (prog-if 01 [Subtractive decode]) Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0 Bus: primary=00, secondary=03, subordinate=03, sec-latency=32 I/O behind bridge: 00003000-00003fff Memory behind bridge: e8400000-e84fffff Prefetchable memory behind bridge: 00000000e0000000-00000000e7ffffff Capabilities: [50] Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation LPC Interface Controller (rev 02) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0 Capabilities: [e0] Vendor Specific Information 00:1f.2 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 2 port SATA IDE Controller (rev 02) (prog-if 8f [Master SecP SecO PriP PriO]) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Flags: bus master, 66MHz, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 17 I/O ports at 1c18 I/O ports at 1c0c I/O ports at 1c10 I/O ports at 1c08 I/O ports at 18c0 I/O ports at 18b0 Capabilities: [70] Power Management version 3 Capabilities: [b0] PCIe advanced features 00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation SMBus Controller (rev 02) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 17 Memory at 00000000e8500400 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) I/O ports at 1880 00:1f.5 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 2 port SATA IDE Controller (rev 02) (prog-if 85 [Master SecO PriO]) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Flags: bus master, 66MHz, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 17 I/O ports at 1c30 I/O ports at 1c24 I/O ports at 1c28 I/O ports at 1c20 I/O ports at 18e0 I/O ports at 18d0 Capabilities: [70] Power Management version 3 Capabilities: [b0] PCIe advanced features 01:00.0 SCSI storage controller: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic SAS1064ET PCI-Express Fusion-MPT SAS (rev 02) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0306 Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 17 I/O ports at 2000 [disabled] Memory at 00000000e8310000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) Memory at 00000000e8300000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 2 Capabilities: [68] Express Endpoint, MSI 00 Capabilities: [98] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask- 64bit+ Queue=0/0 Enable- Capabilities: [b0] MSI-X: Enable- Mask- TabSize=1 02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5722 Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0378 Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 16 Memory at 00000000e8200000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) Capabilities: [48] Power Management version 3 Capabilities: [50] Vital Product Data Capabilities: [58] Vendor Specific Information Capabilities: [e8] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask- 64bit+ Queue=0/0 Enable- Capabilities: [d0] Express Endpoint, MSI 00 03:01.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5703 Gigabit Ethernet (rev 10) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 026f Flags: bus master, 66MHz, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 21 Memory at 00000000e8400000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) Capabilities: [40] PCI-X non-bridge device Capabilities: [48] Power Management version 2 Capabilities: [50] Vital Product Data Capabilities: [58] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask- 64bit+ Queue=0/3 Enable- 03:02.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc ES1000 (rev 02) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller]) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0325 Flags: bus master, stepping, fast Back2Back, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 19 Memory at e0000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) I/O ports at 3000 Memory at e8410000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gwfort27# lspci -tv -[0000:00]-+-00.0 Intel Corporation Server DRAM Controller +-01.0-[0000:04]-- +-1c.0-[0000:08]-- +-1c.4-[0000:02]----00.0 Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5722 Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express +-1c.5-[0000:01]----00.0 LSI Logic / Symbios Logic SAS1064ET PCI-Express Fusion-MPT SAS +-1d.0 Intel Corporation USB UHCI Controller #1 +-1d.1 Intel Corporation USB UHCI Controller #2 +-1d.2 Intel Corporation USB UHCI Controller #3 +-1d.7 Intel Corporation USB2 EHCI Controller #1 +-1e.0-[0000:03]--+-01.0 Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5703 Gigabit Ethernet | \-02.0 ATI Technologies Inc ES1000 +-1f.0 Intel Corporation LPC Interface Controller +-1f.2 Intel Corporation 2 port SATA IDE Controller +-1f.3 Intel Corporation SMBus Controller \-1f.5 Intel Corporation 2 port SATA IDE Controller ------------------------------------------------------------------------ gwfort27# lspci -mv Device: 00:00.0 Class: Host bridge Vendor: Intel Corporation Device: Server DRAM Controller SVendor: IBM SDevice: Unknown device 0377 Rev: 01 Device: 00:01.0 Class: PCI bridge Vendor: Intel Corporation Device: Server Host-Primary PCI Express Bridge Rev: 01 Device: 00:1c.0 Class: PCI bridge Vendor: Intel Corporation Device: PCI Express Port 1 Rev: 02 Device: 00:1c.4 Class: PCI bridge Vendor: Intel Corporation Device: PCI Express Port 5 Rev: 02 Device: 00:1c.5 Class: PCI bridge Vendor: Intel Corporation Device: PCI Express Port 6 Rev: 02 Device: 00:1d.0 Class: USB Controller Vendor: Intel Corporation Device: USB UHCI Controller #1 SVendor: IBM SDevice: Unknown device 0377 Rev: 02 Device: 00:1d.1 Class: USB Controller Vendor: Intel Corporation Device: USB UHCI Controller #2 SVendor: IBM SDevice: Unknown device 0377 Rev: 02 Device: 00:1d.2 Class: USB Controller Vendor: Intel Corporation Device: USB UHCI Controller #3 SVendor: IBM SDevice: Unknown device 0377 Rev: 02 Device: 00:1d.7 Class: USB Controller Vendor: Intel Corporation Device: USB2 EHCI Controller #1 SVendor: IBM SDevice: Unknown device 0377 Rev: 02 ProgIf: 20 Device: 00:1e.0 Class: PCI bridge Vendor: Intel Corporation Device: 82801 PCI Bridge Rev: 92 ProgIf: 01 Device: 00:1f.0 Class: ISA bridge Vendor: Intel Corporation Device: LPC Interface Controller SVendor: IBM SDevice: Unknown device 0377 Rev: 02 Device: 00:1f.2 Class: IDE interface Vendor: Intel Corporation Device: 2 port SATA IDE Controller SVendor: IBM SDevice: Unknown device 0377 Rev: 02 ProgIf: 8f Device: 00:1f.3 Class: SMBus Vendor: Intel Corporation Device: SMBus Controller SVendor: IBM SDevice: Unknown device 0377 Rev: 02 Device: 00:1f.5 Class: IDE interface Vendor: Intel Corporation Device: 2 port SATA IDE Controller SVendor: IBM SDevice: Unknown device 0377 Rev: 02 ProgIf: 85 Device: 01:00.0 Class: SCSI storage controller Vendor: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic Device: SAS1064ET PCI-Express Fusion-MPT SAS SVendor: IBM SDevice: Unknown device 0306 Rev: 02 Device: 02:00.0 Class: Ethernet controller Vendor: Broadcom Corporation Device: NetXtreme BCM5722 Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express SVendor: IBM SDevice: Unknown device 0378 Device: 03:01.0 Class: Ethernet controller Vendor: Broadcom Corporation Device: NetXtreme BCM5703 Gigabit Ethernet SVendor: IBM SDevice: Unknown device 026f Rev: 10 Device: 03:02.0 Class: VGA compatible controller Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc Device: ES1000 SVendor: IBM SDevice: Unknown device 0325 Rev: 02 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gwfort27# lspci -Mv 00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Server DRAM Controller (rev 01) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0 Capabilities: [e0] Vendor Specific Information 00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Server Host-Primary PCI Express Bridge (rev 01) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode]) Flags: fast devsel Bus: primary=00, secondary=04, subordinate=04, sec-latency=0 Capabilities: [88] Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Capabilities: [80] Power Management version 3 Capabilities: [90] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask- 64bit- Queue=0/0 Enable- Capabilities: [a0] Express Root Port (Slot+), MSI 00 ## 00.01:0 is a bridge from 00 to 04-04 00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation PCI Express Port 1 (rev 02) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode]) Flags: fast devsel Bus: primary=00, secondary=08, subordinate=08, sec-latency=0 Capabilities: [40] Express Root Port (Slot+), MSI 00 Capabilities: [80] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask- 64bit- Queue=0/0 Enable- Capabilities: [90] Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Capabilities: [a0] Power Management version 2 ## 00.1c:0 is a bridge from 00 to 08-08 00:1c.4 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation PCI Express Port 5 (rev 02) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode]) Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0 Bus: primary=00, secondary=02, subordinate=02, sec-latency=0 Memory behind bridge: e8200000-e82fffff Capabilities: [40] Express Root Port (Slot+), MSI 00 Capabilities: [80] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask- 64bit- Queue=0/0 Enable- Capabilities: [90] Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Capabilities: [a0] Power Management version 2 ## 00.1c:4 is a bridge from 00 to 02-02 00:1c.5 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation PCI Express Port 6 (rev 02) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode]) Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0 Bus: primary=00, secondary=01, subordinate=01, sec-latency=0 I/O behind bridge: 00002000-00002fff Memory behind bridge: e8300000-e83fffff Capabilities: [40] Express Root Port (Slot+), MSI 00 Capabilities: [80] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask- 64bit- Queue=0/0 Enable- Capabilities: [90] Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Capabilities: [a0] Power Management version 2 ## 00.1c:5 is a bridge from 00 to 01-01 00:1d.0 USB Controller: Intel Corporation USB UHCI Controller #1 (rev 02) (prog-if 00 [UHCI]) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 16 I/O ports at 1820 Capabilities: [50] PCIe advanced features 00:1d.1 USB Controller: Intel Corporation USB UHCI Controller #2 (rev 02) (prog-if 00 [UHCI]) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 17 I/O ports at 1840 Capabilities: [50] PCIe advanced features 00:1d.2 USB Controller: Intel Corporation USB UHCI Controller #3 (rev 02) (prog-if 00 [UHCI]) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 18 I/O ports at 1860 Capabilities: [50] PCIe advanced features 00:1d.7 USB Controller: Intel Corporation USB2 EHCI Controller #1 (rev 02) (prog-if 20 [EHCI]) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 16 Memory at e8500000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 2 Capabilities: [58] Debug port: BAR=1 offset=00a0 Capabilities: [98] PCIe advanced features 00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge (rev 92) (prog-if 01 [Subtractive decode]) Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0 Bus: primary=00, secondary=03, subordinate=03, sec-latency=32 I/O behind bridge: 00003000-00003fff Memory behind bridge: e8400000-e84fffff Prefetchable memory behind bridge: 00000000e0000000-00000000e7ffffff Capabilities: [50] Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 ## 00.1e:0 is a bridge from 00 to 03-03 00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation LPC Interface Controller (rev 02) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0 Capabilities: [e0] Vendor Specific Information 00:1f.2 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 2 port SATA IDE Controller (rev 02) (prog-if 8f [Master SecP SecO PriP PriO]) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Flags: bus master, 66MHz, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 17 I/O ports at 1c18 I/O ports at 1c0c I/O ports at 1c10 I/O ports at 1c08 I/O ports at 18c0 I/O ports at 18b0 Capabilities: [70] Power Management version 3 Capabilities: [b0] PCIe advanced features 00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation SMBus Controller (rev 02) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 17 Memory at e8500400 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) I/O ports at 1880 00:1f.5 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 2 port SATA IDE Controller (rev 02) (prog-if 85 [Master SecO PriO]) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0377 Flags: bus master, 66MHz, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 17 I/O ports at 1c30 I/O ports at 1c24 I/O ports at 1c28 I/O ports at 1c20 I/O ports at 18e0 I/O ports at 18d0 Capabilities: [70] Power Management version 3 Capabilities: [b0] PCIe advanced features 01:00.0 SCSI storage controller: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic SAS1064ET PCI-Express Fusion-MPT SAS (rev 02) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0306 Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 17 I/O ports at 2000 [disabled] Memory at e8310000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) Memory at e8300000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 2 Capabilities: [68] Express Endpoint, MSI 00 Capabilities: [98] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask- 64bit+ Queue=0/0 Enable- Capabilities: [b0] MSI-X: Enable- Mask- TabSize=1 02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5722 Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0378 Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 16 Memory at e8200000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) Capabilities: [48] Power Management version 3 Capabilities: [50] Vital Product Data Capabilities: [58] Vendor Specific Information Capabilities: [e8] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask- 64bit+ Queue=0/0 Enable- Capabilities: [d0] Express Endpoint, MSI 00 03:01.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5703 Gigabit Ethernet (rev 10) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 026f Flags: bus master, 66MHz, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 21 Memory at e8400000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) Capabilities: [40] PCI-X non-bridge device Capabilities: [48] Power Management version 2 Capabilities: [50] Vital Product Data Capabilities: [58] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask- 64bit+ Queue=0/3 Enable- 03:02.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc ES1000 (rev 02) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller]) Subsystem: IBM Unknown device 0325 Flags: bus master, stepping, fast Back2Back, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 19 Memory at e0000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) I/O ports at 3000 Memory at e8410000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 2 Summary of buses: 00: Primary host bus 1e.0 Bridge to 03-03 1c.5 Bridge to 01-01 1c.4 Bridge to 02-02 1c.0 Bridge to 08-08 01.0 Bridge to 04-04 01: Entered via 00:1c.5 02: Entered via 00:1c.4 03: Entered via 00:1e.0 gwfort27# exit Script done on Tue Jul 8 14:05:26 2008 ------------------------------------------------------------------- # older pci.ids than above pciconf -v hostb0@pci0:0:0: class=0x060000 card=0x03771014 chip=0x29f08086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' class = bridge subclass = HOST-PCI pcib1@pci0:1:0: class=0x060400 card=0x00000088 chip=0x29f18086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x01 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' class = bridge subclass = PCI-PCI pcib2@pci0:28:0: class=0x060400 card=0x00000040 chip=0x29408086 rev=0x02 hdr=0x01 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' class = bridge subclass = PCI-PCI pcib3@pci0:28:4: class=0x060400 card=0x00000040 chip=0x29488086 rev=0x02 hdr=0x01 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' class = bridge subclass = PCI-PCI pcib4@pci0:28:5: class=0x060400 card=0x00000040 chip=0x294a8086 rev=0x02 hdr=0x01 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' class = bridge subclass = PCI-PCI uhci0@pci0:29:0: class=0x0c0300 card=0x03771014 chip=0x29348086 rev=0x02 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' class = serial bus subclass = USB uhci1@pci0:29:1: class=0x0c0300 card=0x03771014 chip=0x29358086 rev=0x02 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' class = serial bus subclass = USB uhci2@pci0:29:2: class=0x0c0300 card=0x03771014 chip=0x29368086 rev=0x02 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' class = serial bus subclass = USB ehci0@pci0:29:7: class=0x0c0320 card=0x03771014 chip=0x293a8086 rev=0x02 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' class = serial bus subclass = USB pcib5@pci0:30:0: class=0x060401 card=0x00000050 chip=0x244e8086 rev=0x92 hdr=0x01 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801BA/CA/DB/DBL/EB/ER/FB (ICH2/3/4/4/5/5/6), 6300ESB Hub Interface to PCI Bridge' class = bridge subclass = PCI-PCI isab0@pci0:31:0: class=0x060100 card=0x03771014 chip=0x29188086 rev=0x02 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' class = bridge subclass = PCI-ISA atapci0@pci0:31:2: class=0x01018f card=0x03771014 chip=0x29218086 rev=0x02 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' class = mass storage subclass = ATA none0@pci0:31:3: class=0x0c0500 card=0x03771014 chip=0x29308086 rev=0x02 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' class = serial bus subclass = SMBus atapci1@pci0:31:5: class=0x010185 card=0x03771014 chip=0x29268086 rev=0x02 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' class = mass storage subclass = ATA none1@pci2:0:0: class=0x020000 card=0x03781014 chip=0x165a14e4 rev=0x00 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Broadcom Corporation' class = network subclass = ethernet mpt0@pci1:0:0: class=0x010000 card=0x03061014 chip=0x00561000 rev=0x02 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'LSI Logic (Was: Symbios Logic, NCR)' class = mass storage subclass = SCSI bge0@pci3:1:0: class=0x020000 card=0x026f1014 chip=0x16c714e4 rev=0x10 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Broadcom Corporation' device = 'BCM5703A3 NetXtreme Gigabit Ethernet' class = network subclass = ethernet none2@pci3:2:0: class=0x030000 card=0x03251014 chip=0x515e1002 rev=0x02 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'ATI Technologies Inc' class = display subclass = VGA From koitsu at FreeBSD.org Tue Jul 8 07:36:31 2008 From: koitsu at FreeBSD.org (Jeremy Chadwick) Date: Tue Jul 8 07:36:37 2008 Subject: massive interrupt storm In-Reply-To: <04E232FDCD9FBE43857F7066CAD3C0F15B8264@svmailmel.bytecraft.internal> References: <04E232FDCD9FBE43857F7066CAD3C0F15B8264@svmailmel.bytecraft.internal> Message-ID: <20080708073630.GA64146@eos.sc1.parodius.com> On Tue, Jul 08, 2008 at 05:21:34PM +1000, Murray Taylor wrote: > We have variously shutdown all USB in the bios, pulled the > Raid daughter board, and still cant solve this storm. Have you tried disabling MSI and MSI-X in FreeBSD to see if it makes a difference? Set hw.pci.enable_msi="0" and hw.pci.enable_msix="0" in /boot/loader.conf and reboot. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From kris at FreeBSD.org Tue Jul 8 13:57:15 2008 From: kris at FreeBSD.org (Kris Kennaway) Date: Tue Jul 8 13:57:27 2008 Subject: CFT: BSD-licensed grep [Fwd: cvs commit: ports/textproc/bsdgrep Makefile distinfo] In-Reply-To: <48736FB7.8070900@FreeBSD.org> References: <20080617004647.GA16546@nagual.pp.ru> <48576610.9080808@FreeBSD.org> <48577510.4020007@aueb.gr> <48577BD2.4070205@bluemedia.pl> <20080617102900.GA46479@nagual.pp.ru> <485798C4.2050605@FreeBSD.org> <20080618055851.GA85018@nagual.pp.ru> <86zlpjduew.fsf@ds4.des.no> <48598C6D.4040102@FreeBSD.org> <48727747.7070509@FreeBSD.org> <20080707201447.GA37354@nagual.pp.ru> <48727F14.6090507@FreeBSD.org> <48728301.5070403@FreeBSD.org> <487294AB.3000609@FreeBSD.org> <48736FB7.8070900@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <4873723D.7040501@FreeBSD.org> G?bor K?vesd?n wrote: > >>> Well, it seems you have missed the first nits of the discussion. GNU >>> grep has some regression test, which doesn't pass completely itself >>> either. :) I've mentioned here that I used those tests to find out >>> what incompatible options are there. Unfortunately, I have to say >>> that BSD grep won't pass all of those, because GNU allows some >>> non-standard regexes, which are rejected by our libc-regex library, >>> like for example (a|) is not standard because it has an empty >>> subexpression. First, I tried to pre-edit such expression in the >>> code. It was ugly enough but I thought: "Ok, this code is pretty >>> ugly, but compatibility is important, maybe we can later revise >>> and/or change our regexp library and get rid of these snippets." >>> Later, when Andrey pointed it out, I realized that my workarounds >>> adressed those incompatibilities but didn't work completely, they >>> broke compatibility at other places, thus I just removed them, >>> because it was not that easy to fix. The version that I sent you for >>> the portbuild test, doesn't have those workarounds. The regression >>> test helped though to fix other compatibility issues, like return >>> values. All of these trivial things are supposed to be compatible >>> now, the only exceptions are the non-standard regexes. That's why I'm >>> so curious about the results. If they are inacceptable, we can try to >>> build BSD grep with the GNU regexp lib (it's in the tree, as Pedro F. >>> Giffuni pointed it out). It doesn't work by just linking with that >>> library, so it will need more work and investigation then, not >>> speaking about that GNU regex should go one day... >> >> OK, yes I did miss the start of the thread, but I was trying to >> suggest that grep doesn't seem to be functional enough yet and this is >> a way to work on identifying what needs to be fixed. > Could you please send me some logs of ports which build with GNU grep > but not with BSD grep? That would help me to identify the problems and > find out if those problems come from non-standard regexes or what's > happening here? No, because every port build fails because egrep -v is failing to work properly in the management scripts :) I sent you mail about this already. Kris From gabor at FreeBSD.org Tue Jul 8 14:04:28 2008 From: gabor at FreeBSD.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E1bor_K=F6vesd=E1n?=) Date: Tue Jul 8 14:04:58 2008 Subject: CFT: BSD-licensed grep [Fwd: cvs commit: ports/textproc/bsdgrep Makefile distinfo] In-Reply-To: <487294AB.3000609@FreeBSD.org> References: <20080617004647.GA16546@nagual.pp.ru> <48576610.9080808@FreeBSD.org> <48577510.4020007@aueb.gr> <48577BD2.4070205@bluemedia.pl> <20080617102900.GA46479@nagual.pp.ru> <485798C4.2050605@FreeBSD.org> <20080618055851.GA85018@nagual.pp.ru> <86zlpjduew.fsf@ds4.des.no> <48598C6D.4040102@FreeBSD.org> <48727747.7070509@FreeBSD.org> <20080707201447.GA37354@nagual.pp.ru> <48727F14.6090507@FreeBSD.org> <48728301.5070403@FreeBSD.org> <487294AB.3000609@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <48736FB7.8070900@FreeBSD.org> >> Well, it seems you have missed the first nits of the discussion. GNU >> grep has some regression test, which doesn't pass completely itself >> either. :) I've mentioned here that I used those tests to find out >> what incompatible options are there. Unfortunately, I have to say >> that BSD grep won't pass all of those, because GNU allows some >> non-standard regexes, which are rejected by our libc-regex library, >> like for example (a|) is not standard because it has an empty >> subexpression. First, I tried to pre-edit such expression in the >> code. It was ugly enough but I thought: "Ok, this code is pretty >> ugly, but compatibility is important, maybe we can later revise >> and/or change our regexp library and get rid of these snippets." >> Later, when Andrey pointed it out, I realized that my workarounds >> adressed those incompatibilities but didn't work completely, they >> broke compatibility at other places, thus I just removed them, >> because it was not that easy to fix. The version that I sent you for >> the portbuild test, doesn't have those workarounds. The regression >> test helped though to fix other compatibility issues, like return >> values. All of these trivial things are supposed to be compatible >> now, the only exceptions are the non-standard regexes. That's why I'm >> so curious about the results. If they are inacceptable, we can try to >> build BSD grep with the GNU regexp lib (it's in the tree, as Pedro F. >> Giffuni pointed it out). It doesn't work by just linking with that >> library, so it will need more work and investigation then, not >> speaking about that GNU regex should go one day... > > OK, yes I did miss the start of the thread, but I was trying to > suggest that grep doesn't seem to be functional enough yet and this is > a way to work on identifying what needs to be fixed. Could you please send me some logs of ports which build with GNU grep but not with BSD grep? That would help me to identify the problems and find out if those problems come from non-standard regexes or what's happening here? I've looked at our regex library and it is written by Henry Spencer. He has a slightly newer version, but he seems to be consequent and the implementation choices are the same, those non-standard regexes are still rejected by his library. I've also looked at PCRE, which was mentioned in this list. In fact, PCRE actually has a POSIX-compliant interface, but it's just the interface, the interpreted regexes are still Perl-like. -- Gabor Kovesdan EMAIL: gabor@FreeBSD.org WWW: http://www.kovesdan.org From mtm at wubethiopia.com Tue Jul 8 14:48:35 2008 From: mtm at wubethiopia.com (Mike Makonnen) Date: Tue Jul 8 14:48:48 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> Message-ID: <48737F79.6070401@wubethiopia.com> Freddie Cash wrote: > > The tricky part will be getting the disk slicing, slice partitioning, > and filesystem formatting to work reliably, with all the power of > FreeBSD's GEOM modules, and ZFS. > Actually, this is probably the easiest part (at least for UFS). The libdisk(3) library abstracts most of it out of the installer. Cheers. -- Mike Makonnen | GPG-KEY: http://people.freebsd.org/~mtm/mtm.asc mtm @ FreeBSD.Org | AC7B 5672 2D11 F4D0 EBF8 5279 5359 2B82 7CD4 1F55 FreeBSD | http://www.freebsd.org From mtm at wubethiopia.com Tue Jul 8 14:54:37 2008 From: mtm at wubethiopia.com (Mike Makonnen) Date: Tue Jul 8 14:54:43 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <20080707213625.69bb0bf4@soralx> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> <20080707213625.69bb0bf4@soralx> Message-ID: <487380FA.6080004@wubethiopia.com> soralx@cydem.org wrote: >> Hear, hear! To be honest, this is the only bit about the current >> sysinstall that I really dislike: the fact that it can be used for >> post-installation configuration and package installation. This causes >> no end of trouble for newbies, who seem to view sysinstall as "The One >> True System Admin Tool" and try to use it for configuring/installing >> everything. Too many times, on various BSD forums, I've had to walk >> people through cleaning up /etc/rc.conf and showing them how to >> correctly install/configure things (using standard FreeBSD tools), >> since they used sysinstall for everything. > > That may be true, but sysinstall did help me do basic, essentical > configuration of my very first installed system, and a few installs after > that (until I learned about /etc/rc.conf et al). And I never regarded it as > The One True Sysadmin Tool, because I did not use Linux distros, thus never > got used to their ways. It's just that the simple configuration menu really > helped me to get a useful system running in a few minutes (though menu items > certainly could make use of more verbose descriptions). And then I could > play with the working system and learn ways to configure it. > > So, IMHO, a basic curses system configuration utility is still needed, and > should be run after sysinstall or it should tell the user how to run it > (maybe in motd, or sysinstall itself?). > Yes, I agree that such a tool is useful, but it does not belong in the installer. In fact, the BSD Installer framework can be used here also to separate the implementation details from the user interface. Cheers. -- Mike Makonnen | GPG-KEY: http://people.freebsd.org/~mtm/mtm.asc mtm @ FreeBSD.Org | AC7B 5672 2D11 F4D0 EBF8 5279 5359 2B82 7CD4 1F55 FreeBSD | http://www.freebsd.org From olli at lurza.secnetix.de Tue Jul 8 16:02:01 2008 From: olli at lurza.secnetix.de (Oliver Fromme) Date: Tue Jul 8 16:02:12 2008 Subject: eeePC 900 with SSD && reducing writes In-Reply-To: <20080624131150.GA21185@rebelion.Sisis.de> Message-ID: <200807081601.m68G1vgc019961@lurza.secnetix.de> Matthias Apitz wrote: > I'd also like to get rid of 'lastlog' and 'wtmp' but even if the man > page claims that they will not be created if they don't exist, they > come up again and again; > > another candidate of not needed log is > /var/log/Xorg.n.log ... You can get rid of an on-disk /var alltogether. Add these lines to /etc/rc.conf: varmfs="yes" varsize="32m" It will create a memory FS for /var of 32 MB (default). You could also mount some or all of your disk partitions read-only. That's what I do on my embedded FreeBSD-driven mp3 player (running from a CF card instead of hard disk), because it doesn't have to write anything anywhere. If you have any disk partitions that you mount read+write, be sure to enable soft-updates because it tends to reduce the number of physical write operations. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch?ftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M?n- chen, HRB 125758, Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "FreeBSD is Yoda, Linux is Luke Skywalker" -- Daniel C. Sobral From rink at FreeBSD.org Tue Jul 8 19:23:40 2008 From: rink at FreeBSD.org (Rink Springer) Date: Tue Jul 8 19:23:48 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <48737F79.6070401@wubethiopia.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> <48737F79.6070401@wubethiopia.com> Message-ID: <20080708190407.GA68713@rink.nu> On Tue, Jul 08, 2008 at 05:53:45PM +0300, Mike Makonnen wrote: > Freddie Cash wrote: > > > > The tricky part will be getting the disk slicing, slice partitioning, > > and filesystem formatting to work reliably, with all the power of > > FreeBSD's GEOM modules, and ZFS. > > > > Actually, this is probably the easiest part (at least for UFS). The > libdisk(3) library abstracts most of it out of the installer. ...except that libdisk(3) was supposed to be a temporary hack. I'd really suggest that something cleaner is to be written; libdisk(3) really is not the way to go. Have a look at the code and see for yourself. Regards, -- Rink P.W. Springer - http://rink.nu "Anyway boys, this is America. Just because you get more votes doesn't mean you win." - Fox Mulder From xcllnt at mac.com Tue Jul 8 19:56:25 2008 From: xcllnt at mac.com (Marcel Moolenaar) Date: Tue Jul 8 19:56:32 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <20080708190407.GA68713@rink.nu> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> <48737F79.6070401@wubethiopia.com> <20080708190407.GA68713@rink.nu> Message-ID: <47A12EFB-2433-4E60-BE15-48E1BDD22238@mac.com> On Jul 8, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Rink Springer wrote: > On Tue, Jul 08, 2008 at 05:53:45PM +0300, Mike Makonnen wrote: >> Freddie Cash wrote: >>> >>> The tricky part will be getting the disk slicing, slice >>> partitioning, >>> and filesystem formatting to work reliably, with all the power of >>> FreeBSD's GEOM modules, and ZFS. >>> >> >> Actually, this is probably the easiest part (at least for UFS). The >> libdisk(3) library abstracts most of it out of the installer. > > ...except that libdisk(3) was supposed to be a temporary hack. I'd > really > suggest that something cleaner is to be written; libdisk(3) really is > not the way to go. Have a look at the code and see for yourself. Yes, libdisk is bad. GEOM_PART has been designed for use by installers. It can be interfaced faily easily. See gpart(8) for example. FYI, -- Marcel Moolenaar xcllnt@mac.com From zbeeble at gmail.com Tue Jul 8 22:21:28 2008 From: zbeeble at gmail.com (Zaphod Beeblebrox) Date: Tue Jul 8 22:21:35 2008 Subject: Glaring 64 bit omission Message-ID: <5f67a8c40807081521o1f32660ak392672da61e490fd@mail.gmail.com> I was just following up to a post in the forms nvidia supports regarding the graphics cards and FreeBSD when it struck me... Possibly one of the most important glaring omissions to the current FreeBSD platform and it's associated desktop projects is the lack of an nvidia 3D driver. Now I do follow the various forums and mailing lists sufficiently to be quite aware of the requests that nvidia has made for the FreeBSD kernel, the latest reported status on these items and the discussions about these items. I am even somewhat familliar with the efforts for open source drivers on both nvidia (barely supporting 2D at this point) and 3D drivers on other types of hardware (Intel and AMD) In the other forum, I commented that in all my reading, I had not come across someone saying that either a) the nvidia requests seemed unneccary or even b) that the nvidia requests served only the interests of nvida or some narrow (possibly bad) design of hardware. Now... the kernel modifications seem rather major to my untrained eye... something that seems highly unlikely to be considered for MFC. That being the case, it's already too late to consider nvidia cards working on AMD-64 in 7.x. _That_ being said, it seems that these kernel items should be on a priority list for 8.0 (and possibly even delaying 8.0 until we can achieve them so that 64bit nvidia support (arriving in -STABLE) is not delayed another year or two). Although AMD64 is a new platform, it was a platform born out of desperation. There's good evidence for this position in the amount of sheer crow Intel had to consume by supporting the architecture. I multi-boot my laptop to take advantage of it's DUAL-8800M video cards, but I also spend much of my time in amd64 mode because I find i386 too restrictive (for ZFS, for application size, for amount of supported RAM, etc.). In fact, running ZFS in 32 bit mode seems to run the system out of resources required to run 3D application (although there is talk on the FreeBSD lists that future ZFS patches may mitigate this behaviour --- but the fact seems to remain that both ZFS and nvidia require gobs of kernel resources --- which in turn both point to 64 bit OS). From mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df at mired.org Tue Jul 8 22:45:53 2008 From: mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df at mired.org (Mike Meyer) Date: Tue Jul 8 22:46:00 2008 Subject: Glaring 64 bit omission In-Reply-To: <5f67a8c40807081521o1f32660ak392672da61e490fd@mail.gmail.com> References: <5f67a8c40807081521o1f32660ak392672da61e490fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080708184537.7dc1900a@bhuda.mired.org> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 18:21:27 -0400 "Zaphod Beeblebrox" wrote: > I was just following up to a post in the forms nvidia supports regarding the > graphics cards and FreeBSD when it struck me... Rather late.... > Possibly one of the most important glaring omissions to the current FreeBSD > platform and it's associated desktop projects is the lack of an nvidia 3D > driver. It's been this way for quite a while. > _That_ being said, it seems that these kernel items should be on a priority > list for 8.0 (and possibly even delaying 8.0 until we can achieve them so > that 64bit nvidia support (arriving in -STABLE) is not delayed another year > or two). I'm sure it's on quite a few people's priority lists. Unfortunately for them (yup, them - I don't do 3d on my desktop) none of them appear to be on the important list of people regarding this issue: the list of people with both the time and skills needed to deal with these kernel items. Which is the root of the problem: FreeBSD is a volunteer effort. There's not a lot of incentive to fix a problem that doesn't affect you directly (and the FreeBSD folks are to be congratulated for how well they do on such issues in general!) - and as you point out, this is a rather deep problem. Pointing out that "this issue is N years old and hasn't been addressed" isn't constructive - everyone who could deal with it certainly knows about it by now. That said, since you believe this should be a priority, and have listed how it affects you personally, what have you done that *is* constructive? The obvious ones would be submitting patches that seem to move things in the right direction, or establishing a bounty for such patches. Done either of those? Something I overlooked? http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From rick-freebsd at kiwi-computer.com Wed Jul 9 03:28:53 2008 From: rick-freebsd at kiwi-computer.com (Rick C. Petty) Date: Wed Jul 9 03:29:05 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> Message-ID: <20080709030209.GA55030@keira.kiwi-computer.com> On Mon, Jul 07, 2008 at 11:55:41AM -0700, Freddie Cash wrote: > > IMO, the installer should allow you to partition the disk(s), format > the partition(s), install the OS, configure a user, and reboot the > system. Anything beyond that should be handled by the OS tools, from > within the installed and running OS. It already does all of that, but why reboot right away? The first thing I do while the system is installing is run csup(1) to get the latest source, build and install world/kernel, and build all my ports. I also setup my gmirror and do all my configuration. The only reason I reboot is to use the latest kernel and mount from the mirror. I'd like to see other OSes do all of that. -- Rick C. Petty From guru at unixarea.de Wed Jul 9 10:16:24 2008 From: guru at unixarea.de (Matthias Apitz) Date: Wed Jul 9 10:16:42 2008 Subject: eeePC 900 with SSD && reducing writes In-Reply-To: <200807081601.m68G1vgc019961@lurza.secnetix.de> References: <20080624131150.GA21185@rebelion.Sisis.de> <200807081601.m68G1vgc019961@lurza.secnetix.de> Message-ID: <20080709101619.GA6723@rebelion.Sisis.de> El d?a Tuesday, July 08, 2008 a las 06:01:57PM +0200, Oliver Fromme escribi?: > Matthias Apitz wrote: > > I'd also like to get rid of 'lastlog' and 'wtmp' but even if the man > > page claims that they will not be created if they don't exist, they > > come up again and again; > > > > another candidate of not needed log is > > /var/log/Xorg.n.log ... > > You can get rid of an on-disk /var alltogether. > Add these lines to /etc/rc.conf: > > varmfs="yes" > varsize="32m" > > It will create a memory FS for /var of 32 MB (default). Thanks for the hint, but memfs is not so good because you will loose /var/db; I've created a symlink now from /var/log to /tmp/log and /tmp is memfs; > You could also mount some or all of your disk partitions > read-only. That's what I do on my embedded FreeBSD-driven > mp3 player (running from a CF card instead of hard disk), > because it doesn't have to write anything anywhere. > > If you have any disk partitions that you mount read+write, > be sure to enable soft-updates because it tends to reduce > the number of physical write operations. will think about tunefs and soft-updates; thx matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/ ?...una sola vez, que es cuanto basta si se trata de verdades definitivas.? ?...only once, which is enough if it has todo with definite truth.? Jos? Saramago, Historia del Cerca de Lisboa From olli at lurza.secnetix.de Wed Jul 9 11:22:30 2008 From: olli at lurza.secnetix.de (Oliver Fromme) Date: Wed Jul 9 11:22:38 2008 Subject: eeePC 900 with SSD && reducing writes In-Reply-To: <20080709101619.GA6723@rebelion.Sisis.de> Message-ID: <200807091122.m69BMRD3066902@lurza.secnetix.de> Matthias Apitz wrote: > Oliver Fromme wrote: > > You can get rid of an on-disk /var alltogether. > > Add these lines to /etc/rc.conf: > > > > varmfs="yes" > > varsize="32m" > > > > It will create a memory FS for /var of 32 MB (default). > > Thanks for the hint, but memfs is not so good because you will loose > /var/db; I've created a symlink now from /var/log to /tmp/log and /tmp > is memfs; It depends what you need from /var/db. In my case I didn't need anything from it, so losing it was OK. Another possibility is to create a "static" var directory somewhere (on flash memory), e.g. /svar, and write a small script or mtree file that creates symlinks from the memfs /var to the static /svar, e.g. /var/db -> /svar/db. Yet another solution would be to use unionfs, or a skeleton .tar.gz file that contains initial things for memfs /var. There are many possibilities to choose from. :-) Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch?ftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M?n- chen, HRB 125758, Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "I started using PostgreSQL around a month ago, and the feeling is similar to the switch from Linux to FreeBSD in '96 -- 'wow!'." -- Oddbjorn Steffensen From des at des.no Wed Jul 9 11:29:46 2008 From: des at des.no (=?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) Date: Wed Jul 9 11:29:53 2008 Subject: Glaring 64 bit omission In-Reply-To: <5f67a8c40807081521o1f32660ak392672da61e490fd@mail.gmail.com> (Zaphod Beeblebrox's message of "Tue\, 8 Jul 2008 18\:21\:27 -0400") References: <5f67a8c40807081521o1f32660ak392672da61e490fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <86bq172t3t.fsf@ds4.des.no> "Zaphod Beeblebrox" writes: > [kernel changes for nVidia] should be on a priority list for 8.0 (and > possibly even delaying 8.0 until we can achieve them so that 64bit > nvidia support (arriving in -STABLE) is not delayed another year or > two). Firstly, we don't do feature-based releases. We do time-based releases. Secondly, these issues are already being worked on. > Although AMD64 is a new platform No, it isn't. > it was a platform born out of desperation. No, it wasn't. DES -- Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav - des@des.no From biancalana at gmail.com Wed Jul 9 12:19:33 2008 From: biancalana at gmail.com (Alexandre Biancalana) Date: Wed Jul 9 12:19:39 2008 Subject: Glaring 64 bit omission In-Reply-To: <86bq172t3t.fsf@ds4.des.no> References: <5f67a8c40807081521o1f32660ak392672da61e490fd@mail.gmail.com> <86bq172t3t.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: <8e10486b0807090450n618bab5aj140fc6b4e6b42bb7@mail.gmail.com> Hi Dag, > Secondly, these issues are already being worked on. Who is working on that ? From des at des.no Wed Jul 9 14:01:04 2008 From: des at des.no (=?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) Date: Wed Jul 9 14:02:16 2008 Subject: Glaring 64 bit omission In-Reply-To: <8e10486b0807090450n618bab5aj140fc6b4e6b42bb7@mail.gmail.com> (Alexandre Biancalana's message of "Wed\, 9 Jul 2008 08\:50\:28 -0300") References: <5f67a8c40807081521o1f32660ak392672da61e490fd@mail.gmail.com> <86bq172t3t.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8e10486b0807090450n618bab5aj140fc6b4e6b42bb7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <86zlor88de.fsf@ds4.des.no> "Alexandre Biancalana" writes: > "Zaphod Beeblebrox" writes: > > Secondly, these issues are already being worked on. > Who is working on that ? http://wiki.freebsd.org/NvidiaFeatureRequests I wish people would take the time to search the archives before they drag out the same old thing again, and again, and again. DES -- Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav - des@des.no From asmodai at in-nomine.org Wed Jul 9 14:43:05 2008 From: asmodai at in-nomine.org (Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven) Date: Wed Jul 9 14:43:16 2008 Subject: Need help debugging Python coredump Message-ID: <20080709142332.GB68329@nexus.in-nomine.org> I can reproduce the problem on both 6.3 and 7.0-STABLE. With the current Python 2.6 SVN trunk I have been getting coredumps for a while now when the curses regression tests get run. When it coredumps it is always a signal 11. Steps to reproduce: 1) get Python from trunk: svn checkout http://svn.python.org/projects/python/trunk python 2) configure: cd python && ./configure --prefix=$HOME/python 3) build: make 4) run: ./python -E -tt Lib/test/regrtest.py -l -ucurses test_curses This test will pass, at least it did for me. 5) run: ./python -E -tt Lib/test/regrtest.py -l -uall -rw This starts all tests in a random order with verbosity on. Suddenly test_curses will coredump. I get two backtraces: #0 0x28553c3a in doupdate () from /lib/libncursesw.so.7 #1 0x28854a50 in PyCurses_doupdate (self=0x0) at /usr/home/asmodai/projects/python/Modules/_cursesmodule.c:1652 #2 0x080d097f in PyEval_EvalFrameEx (f=0x82b66fc, throwflag=0) at Python/ceval.c:3629 #3 0x080d186a in PyEval_EvalFrameEx (f=0x8c1098c, throwflag=0) at Python/ceval.c:3731 #4 0x080d186a in PyEval_EvalFrameEx (f=0x93f1c0c, throwflag=0) at Python/ceval.c:3731 #5 0x080d226a in PyEval_EvalCodeEx (co=0x8a8f3c8, globals=0x8c43e84, locals=0x8c43e84, args=0x0, argcount=0, kws=0x0, kwcount=0, defs=0x0, defcount=0, closure=0x0) at Python/ceval.c:2908 #6 0x080d23c7 in PyEval_EvalCode (co=0x8a8f3c8, globals=0x8c43e84, locals=0x8c43e84) at Python/ceval.c:495 #7 0x080e5d3c in PyImport_ExecCodeModuleEx ( name=0xbfbfda83 "test.test_curses", co=0x8a8f3c8, pathname=0xbfbfd177 "/usr/home/asmodai/projects/python/Lib/test/test_curses.pyc") at Python/import.c:680 #0 0x2889840d in PyCurses_getsyx (self=0x0) at /dumpster/home/asmodai/projects/python/Modules/_cursesmodule.c:1770 #1 0x080d06d8 in PyEval_EvalFrameEx (f=0x8f4b95c, throwflag=0) at Python/ceval.c:3635 #2 0x080d1021 in PyEval_EvalFrameEx (f=0x8df8aec, throwflag=0) at Python/ceval.c:3737 #3 0x080d1021 in PyEval_EvalFrameEx (f=0x8daa08c, throwflag=0) at Python/ceval.c:3737 #4 0x080d207a in PyEval_EvalCodeEx (co=0x8d86338, globals=0x9831934, locals=0x9831934, args=0x0, argcount=0, kws=0x0, kwcount=0, defs=0x0, defcount=0, closure=0x0) at Python/ceval.c:2914 #5 0x080d21d7 in PyEval_EvalCode (co=0x8d86338, globals=0x9831934, locals=0x9831934) at Python/ceval.c:495 #6 0x080e5b4c in PyImport_ExecCodeModuleEx ( name=0xbfbfdc63 "test.test_curses", co=0x8d86338, pathname=0xbfbfd357 "/dumpster/home/asmodai/projects/python/Lib/test/test_curses.pyc") at Python/import.c:680 Both have got me stumped a bit and I have not been able to progress far to find out why this happens. I cannot reproduce this on Ubuntu 8.04 at all. And they both use the same ncurses library, 5.6. One idea Thomas Dickey had for the last traceback was: curses.setupterm(fd=sys.__stdout__.fileno()) That would have newscr null. The failure might be from closing stdout, e.g., if it was redirected. Any ideas/hints/tips to finally squash this crashdump? -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven / asmodai ????? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow... From zbeeble at gmail.com Wed Jul 9 17:50:20 2008 From: zbeeble at gmail.com (Zaphod Beeblebrox) Date: Wed Jul 9 17:50:27 2008 Subject: Glaring 64 bit omission In-Reply-To: <86zlor88de.fsf@ds4.des.no> References: <5f67a8c40807081521o1f32660ak392672da61e490fd@mail.gmail.com> <86bq172t3t.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8e10486b0807090450n618bab5aj140fc6b4e6b42bb7@mail.gmail.com> <86zlor88de.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: <5f67a8c40807091050k3b6afa02n3c27a14de2466e0c@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: > "Alexandre Biancalana" writes: > > "Zaphod Beeblebrox" writes: > > > Secondly, these issues are already being worked on. > > Who is working on that ? > > http://wiki.freebsd.org/NvidiaFeatureRequests > > I wish people would take the time to search the archives before they > drag out the same old thing again, and again, and again. I did mention in my introduction that I was aware of this history (including that web page). I brought this up again because it hadn't seen daylight in quite some time. The Wiki page seems to say that it was updated about a month ago. Without figuring how to pull the wiki's version history, I don't see significant change. Of note, the last conversation the wiki references is 8 months old. In particular, none of these activities seem to pop up in the regular FreeBSD Project status reports. From bruce at cran.org.uk Wed Jul 9 18:19:43 2008 From: bruce at cran.org.uk (Bruce Cran) Date: Wed Jul 9 18:19:49 2008 Subject: Glaring 64 bit omission In-Reply-To: <5f67a8c40807091050k3b6afa02n3c27a14de2466e0c@mail.gmail.com> References: <5f67a8c40807081521o1f32660ak392672da61e490fd@mail.gmail.com> <86bq172t3t.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8e10486b0807090450n618bab5aj140fc6b4e6b42bb7@mail.gmail.com> <86zlor88de.fsf@ds4.des.no> <5f67a8c40807091050k3b6afa02n3c27a14de2466e0c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080709191927.164d25a6@tau> On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 13:50:17 -0400 "Zaphod Beeblebrox" wrote: > I did mention in my introduction that I was aware of this history > (including that web page). I brought this up again because it hadn't > seen daylight in quite some time. The Wiki page seems to say that it > was updated about a month ago. Without figuring how to pull the > wiki's version history, I don't see significant change. Of note, the > last conversation the wiki references is 8 months old. > > In particular, none of these activities seem to pop up in the regular > FreeBSD Project status reports. Click on the "Info" link to see the history. The recent change was just to the markup, not the page content; the last real change was in November 2007. -- Bruce Cran -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080709/6399dfb0/signature.pgp From mwm at mired.org Wed Jul 9 18:32:12 2008 From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer) Date: Wed Jul 9 18:41:53 2008 Subject: Glaring 64 bit omission In-Reply-To: <5f67a8c40807091050k3b6afa02n3c27a14de2466e0c@mail.gmail.com> References: <5f67a8c40807081521o1f32660ak392672da61e490fd@mail.gmail.com> <86bq172t3t.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8e10486b0807090450n618bab5aj140fc6b4e6b42bb7@mail.gmail.com> <86zlor88de.fsf@ds4.des.no> <5f67a8c40807091050k3b6afa02n3c27a14de2466e0c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080709143208.4573c6a8@mbook.local> On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 13:50:17 -0400 "Zaphod Beeblebrox" wrote: > I did mention in my introduction that I was aware of this history (including > that web page). I brought this up again because it hadn't seen daylight in > quite some time. The Wiki page seems to say that it was updated about a > month ago. Without figuring how to pull the wiki's version history, I don't > see significant change. Of note, the last conversation the wiki references > is 8 months old. Um, how do you figure last conversation with wiki references is 8 months old? It got brought up in a converation on -hackers just last month: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2008-June/024956.html And was the starting point for a conversation on -chat last month as well: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-chat/2008-June/005579.html > In particular, none of these activities seem to pop up in the regular > FreeBSD Project status reports. None of them are important enough to warrant it. http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From zbeeble at gmail.com Wed Jul 9 18:46:02 2008 From: zbeeble at gmail.com (Zaphod Beeblebrox) Date: Wed Jul 9 18:46:08 2008 Subject: Glaring 64 bit omission In-Reply-To: <20080709143208.4573c6a8@mbook.local> References: <5f67a8c40807081521o1f32660ak392672da61e490fd@mail.gmail.com> <86bq172t3t.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8e10486b0807090450n618bab5aj140fc6b4e6b42bb7@mail.gmail.com> <86zlor88de.fsf@ds4.des.no> <5f67a8c40807091050k3b6afa02n3c27a14de2466e0c@mail.gmail.com> <20080709143208.4573c6a8@mbook.local> Message-ID: <5f67a8c40807091146s2dd55013l60fcaa3a22df65@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 2:32 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 13:50:17 -0400 "Zaphod Beeblebrox" > wrote: > > I did mention in my introduction that I was aware of this history > (including > > that web page). I brought this up again because it hadn't seen daylight > in > > quite some time. The Wiki page seems to say that it was updated about a > > month ago. Without figuring how to pull the wiki's version history, I > don't > > see significant change. Of note, the last conversation the wiki > references > > is 8 months old. > > Um, how do you figure last conversation with wiki references is 8 > months old? It got brought up in a converation on -hackers just last > month: > > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2008-June/024956.html > While I don't follow freebsd-chat with any regularity, My point was that the wiki didn't reverence any conversations newer than 8 months old still stands. That conversation is not referenced by the wiki. It may be an example of someone bringing up the question without doing research, but that is not the case here, either. > In particular, none of these activities seem to pop up in the regular > > FreeBSD Project status reports. > > None of them are important enough to warrant it. On that, you and I differ. Aside from nvidia requesting them, the 5 points all seem very relevant to 64-bit systems in general. From fjwcash at gmail.com Wed Jul 9 22:06:34 2008 From: fjwcash at gmail.com (Freddie Cash) Date: Wed Jul 9 22:06:45 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <487380FA.6080004@wubethiopia.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> <20080707213625.69bb0bf4@soralx> <487380FA.6080004@wubethiopia.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 8:00 AM, Mike Makonnen wrote: > soralx@cydem.org wrote: >>> Hear, hear! To be honest, this is the only bit about the current >>> sysinstall that I really dislike: the fact that it can be used for >>> post-installation configuration and package installation. This causes >>> no end of trouble for newbies, who seem to view sysinstall as "The One >>> True System Admin Tool" and try to use it for configuring/installing >>> everything. Too many times, on various BSD forums, I've had to walk >>> people through cleaning up /etc/rc.conf and showing them how to >>> correctly install/configure things (using standard FreeBSD tools), >>> since they used sysinstall for everything. >> >> That may be true, but sysinstall did help me do basic, essentical >> configuration of my very first installed system, and a few installs after >> that (until I learned about /etc/rc.conf et al). And I never regarded it >> as The One True Sysadmin Tool, because I did not use Linux distros, thus >> never got used to their ways. It's just that the simple configuration menu >> really helped me to get a useful system running in a few minutes (though menu >> items certainly could make use of more verbose descriptions). And then I could >> play with the working system and learn ways to configure it. >> >> So, IMHO, a basic curses system configuration utility is still needed, and >> should be run after sysinstall or it should tell the user how to run it >> (maybe in motd, or sysinstall itself?). > > Yes, I agree that such a tool is useful, but it does not belong in the > installer. In fact, the BSD Installer framework can be used here also to > separate the implementation details from the user interface. Exactly. There's nothing wrong with having an TUI/GUI for configuring /etc/rc.conf, or ports, or whatever. And there are pointers to the handbook and man pages in the default motd, so one can learn to do it manually via a text editor. All I'm saying is that a generic system configuration tool should not be an integral part of the installer (and all mentions of sysinstall, IMO, should be removed from the default motd). They are separate tasks. -- Freddie Cash fjwcash@gmail.com From rick-freebsd at kiwi-computer.com Thu Jul 10 01:06:50 2008 From: rick-freebsd at kiwi-computer.com (Rick C. Petty) Date: Thu Jul 10 01:06:56 2008 Subject: Glaring 64 bit omission In-Reply-To: <5f67a8c40807091146s2dd55013l60fcaa3a22df65@mail.gmail.com> References: <5f67a8c40807081521o1f32660ak392672da61e490fd@mail.gmail.com> <86bq172t3t.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8e10486b0807090450n618bab5aj140fc6b4e6b42bb7@mail.gmail.com> <86zlor88de.fsf@ds4.des.no> <5f67a8c40807091050k3b6afa02n3c27a14de2466e0c@mail.gmail.com> <20080709143208.4573c6a8@mbook.local> <5f67a8c40807091146s2dd55013l60fcaa3a22df65@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080710010649.GA71257@keira.kiwi-computer.com> On Wed, Jul 09, 2008 at 02:46:00PM -0400, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: > > While I don't follow freebsd-chat with any regularity, My point was that the > wiki didn't reverence any conversations newer than 8 months old still > stands. That conversation is not referenced by the wiki. It may be an > example of someone bringing up the question without doing research, but that > is not the case here, either. So go learn how to use a wiki, request a wiki.freebsd account, and make a contribution by fixing the wiki. That would be something constructive to do. Complaining on these lists, without using your real name, just makes people believe that you are a troll. It is obviously not constructive since the problems are known and (supposedly) are being worked on. -- Rick C. Petty From mtm at wubethiopia.com Thu Jul 10 05:13:57 2008 From: mtm at wubethiopia.com (Mike Makonnen) Date: Thu Jul 10 05:14:04 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <47A12EFB-2433-4E60-BE15-48E1BDD22238@mac.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> <48737F79.6070401@wubethiopia.com> <20080708190407.GA68713@rink.nu> <47A12EFB-2433-4E60-BE15-48E1BDD22238@mac.com> Message-ID: <48759BD8.20404@wubethiopia.com> Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > > On Jul 8, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Rink Springer wrote: > >> On Tue, Jul 08, 2008 at 05:53:45PM +0300, Mike Makonnen wrote: >>> Freddie Cash wrote: >>>> >>>> The tricky part will be getting the disk slicing, slice partitioning, >>>> and filesystem formatting to work reliably, with all the power of >>>> FreeBSD's GEOM modules, and ZFS. >>>> >>> >>> Actually, this is probably the easiest part (at least for UFS). The >>> libdisk(3) library abstracts most of it out of the installer. >> >> ...except that libdisk(3) was supposed to be a temporary hack. I'd >> really >> suggest that something cleaner is to be written; libdisk(3) really is >> not the way to go. Have a look at the code and see for yourself. > > Yes, libdisk is bad. GEOM_PART has been designed > for use by installers. It can be interfaced > faily easily. See gpart(8) for example. Is there documentation for the geom_part API somewhere (I couldn't find any) or do I have to look at gpart(8) to figure out how to use it? Is it ok to just use gpart(8) instead of using the geom_part API? Cheers. -- Mike Makonnen | GPG-KEY: http://people.freebsd.org/~mtm/mtm.asc mtm @ FreeBSD.Org | AC7B 5672 2D11 F4D0 EBF8 5279 5359 2B82 7CD4 1F55 FreeBSD | http://www.freebsd.org From guru at unixarea.de Thu Jul 10 12:47:06 2008 From: guru at unixarea.de (Matthias Apitz) Date: Thu Jul 10 12:47:14 2008 Subject: error 1 lba 752976 while booting from USB key to install Message-ID: <20080710124658.GA10730@rebelion.Sisis.de> Hello, I've some server (a 2 years old HP NAT 1000s storage system) and I want to drop the installed W2k system and re-install it with FreeBSD 7.0R and later use it as a central backup-system with Bacula. The problem is that this server has no CD or DVD device, but can (theoretically) boot from external USB CD/DVD (which I don't have either); so I cam up with the idea to boot from that USB key I have used to install 7.0-REL on that eeePC, i.e. the USB key works fine in any laptop; on the HP NAT 1000s storage system it says: FreBSD/i386 Default: 0:ad(0,a)/boot/kernel/kernel boot: error 1 lba 752976 No /boot/kernel/kernel Any idea about why it does not work? Thx matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/ ?...una sola vez, que es cuanto basta si se trata de verdades definitivas.? ?...only once, which is enough if it has todo with definite truth.? Jos? Saramago, Historia del Cerca de Lisboa From olli at lurza.secnetix.de Thu Jul 10 13:01:57 2008 From: olli at lurza.secnetix.de (Oliver Fromme) Date: Thu Jul 10 13:02:04 2008 Subject: error 1 lba 752976 while booting from USB key to install In-Reply-To: <20080710124658.GA10730@rebelion.Sisis.de> Message-ID: <200807101301.m6AD1sCj031951@lurza.secnetix.de> Matthias Apitz wrote: > so I cam up with the idea to boot from that USB key I have used to > install 7.0-REL on that eeePC, i.e. the USB key works fine in any > laptop; on the HP NAT 1000s storage system it says: > > FreBSD/i386 > Default: 0:ad(0,a)/boot/kernel/kernel Hm. Strange. The boot0 code should load /boot/loader, not the kernel. (While it is possible to load the kernel directly under certain conditions, AFAIK, it is better to go the "official" way and let the bootloader do its job.) Have you modified the boot sequence on that USB stick in a special way? Please make sure that it contains the proper infrastructure, i.e. a /boot directory with the loader, a kernel subdirectory etc. If it still fails, I suggest you try a more recent version of FreeBSD. I don't know if it's related to your problem, but there has been a significant change in the boot loader code (so-called BTX) that fixes USB-booting on certain machines. You can either csup RELENG_7 and build a fresh /boot directory, or fetch it from the June snapshot. Then replace /boot/loader on your USB stick with the new one, and don't forget to re-install the bootblocks, too (bsdlabel -B). Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch?ftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M?n- chen, HRB 125758, Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd $ dd if=/dev/urandom of=test.pl count=1 $ file test.pl test.pl: perl script text executable From guru at unixarea.de Thu Jul 10 13:17:23 2008 From: guru at unixarea.de (Matthias Apitz) Date: Thu Jul 10 13:17:31 2008 Subject: error 1 lba 752976 while booting from USB key to install In-Reply-To: <200807101301.m6AD1sCj031951@lurza.secnetix.de> References: <20080710124658.GA10730@rebelion.Sisis.de> <200807101301.m6AD1sCj031951@lurza.secnetix.de> Message-ID: <20080710131716.GA11658@rebelion.Sisis.de> El d?a Thursday, July 10, 2008 a las 03:01:54PM +0200, Oliver Fromme escribi?: > Matthias Apitz wrote: > > so I cam up with the idea to boot from that USB key I have used to > > install 7.0-REL on that eeePC, i.e. the USB key works fine in any > > laptop; on the HP NAT 1000s storage system it says: > > > > FreBSD/i386 > > Default: 0:ad(0,a)/boot/kernel/kernel > > Hm. Strange. The boot0 code should load /boot/loader, > not the kernel. (While it is possible to load the kernel > directly under certain conditions, AFAIK, it is better > to go the "official" way and let the bootloader do its > job.) > > Have you modified the boot sequence on that USB stick in > a special way? Please make sure that it contains the > proper infrastructure, i.e. a /boot directory with the > loader, a kernel subdirectory etc. I've created the USB key like this (more or less) and did not specified or changed anything in the boot-sequence: # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/da0 bs=1m # fdisk -BI /dev/da0 # bsdlabel -wB /dev/da0s1 # export EDITOR=/mnt2/usr/bin/vi # bsdlabel -e /dev/da0s1 # newfs -m 0 -o space /dev/da0s1a # mount /dev/da0s1a /mnt # export DESTDIR=/mnt # cd /a/cdrom/7.0-RELEASE # for i in base manpages catpages do cd $i; echo y|./install.sh; cd ..; done # rmdir /mnt/boot/kernel # cd /a/cdrom/7.0-RELEASE kernels; # cat generic.??|tar --unlink -xpzf - -C /mnt/boot # cd /mnt/boot && mv GENERIC kernel # echo "/dev/da0s1a / ufs rw,noatime 1 1" >/mnt/etc/fstab # cat </mnt/etc/rc.conf.local #!/bin/sh tmpmfs="YES" tmpsize="128m" varmfs="YES" varsize="128m" populate_var="YES" hostname="eeePC" keyrate="fast" keymap="german.iso" EOFRCCONF # chmod 0755 /mnt/etc/rc.conf.local # chroot /mnt /usr/bin/passwd root and again: the USB key works fine in the eeePC 900 and other laptops I have; here is what is in /mnt/boot: rebelion# ls -l /mnt/boot /mnt/boot/kernel/kernel -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 9051823 29 jun 16:52 /mnt/boot/kernel/kernel /mnt/boot: total 710 -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 7636 24 feb 18:52 beastie.4th -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 8192 24 feb 18:52 boot -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 512 24 feb 18:52 boot0 -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 512 24 feb 18:52 boot0sio -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 512 24 feb 18:52 boot1 -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 7680 24 feb 18:52 boot2 -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 1201 24 feb 18:52 cdboot drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 24 feb 18:52 defaults -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 1739 24 feb 18:53 device.hints drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 24 feb 18:49 firmware -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 2249 24 feb 18:52 frames.4th drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 26624 29 jun 17:23 kernel drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 25600 24 feb 21:16 kernel.orig -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 253952 24 feb 18:52 loader -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 7545 24 feb 18:52 loader.4th -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 116 29 jun 16:46 loader.conf -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 15219 24 feb 18:52 loader.help -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 385 24 feb 18:52 loader.rc -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 512 24 feb 18:52 mbr drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 24 feb 18:49 modules -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 256000 24 feb 18:52 pxeboot -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 692 24 feb 18:52 screen.4th -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 36435 24 feb 18:52 support.4th drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 24 feb 18:49 zfs > If it still fails, I suggest you try a more recent > version of FreeBSD. I don't know if it's related to > your problem, but there has been a significant change > in the boot loader code (so-called BTX) that fixes > USB-booting on certain machines. You can either csup > RELENG_7 and build a fresh /boot directory, or fetch > it from the June snapshot. Then replace /boot/loader > on your USB stick with the new one, and don't forget > to re-install the bootblocks, too (bsdlabel -B). ok; matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/ ?...una sola vez, que es cuanto basta si se trata de verdades definitivas.? ?...only once, which is enough if it has todo with definite truth.? Jos? Saramago, Historia del Cerca de Lisboa From v.werth at bally-wulff.de Thu Jul 10 13:27:40 2008 From: v.werth at bally-wulff.de (Werth, Volker) Date: Thu Jul 10 13:27:48 2008 Subject: error 1 lba 752976 while booting from USB key to install In-Reply-To: <20080710124658.GA10730@rebelion.Sisis.de> References: <20080710124658.GA10730@rebelion.Sisis.de> Message-ID: <200807101507.20016.v.werth@bally-wulff.de> Volker Werth schrieb am 10.07.2008 15:07 _____________________________________________________________________ Am Donnerstag, 10. Juli 2008 14:46 schrieb Matthias Apitz: > Hello, > > I've some server (a 2 years old HP NAT 1000s storage system) and > I want to drop the installed W2k system and re-install it with > FreeBSD 7.0R and later use it as a central backup-system with > Bacula. > > The problem is that this server has no CD or DVD device, but can > (theoretically) boot from external USB CD/DVD (which I don't have > either); > > so I cam up with the idea to boot from that USB key I have used to > install 7.0-REL on that eeePC, i.e. the USB key works fine in any > laptop; on the HP NAT 1000s storage system it says: > > FreBSD/i386 > Default: 0:ad(0,a)/boot/kernel/kernel > boot: error 1 lba 752976 Try playing with boot0cfg's option (try with enabling/disabling packet access). -- Volker Werth system engineering Bally Wulff Entertainment GmbH Maybachufer 48-51 12045 Berlin, Germany ph: +49(30)62002-109 Bally Wulff Entertainment GmbH, Maybachufer 48-51, 12045 Berlin, Postanschrift: Postfach 44 01 57, 12001 Berlin Tel.: 030-620 02-0 FAX: 030-620 02-200, Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Sascha Blodau, Wolfram J. Seiffert, Tim Wittenbecher, Amtsgericht Berlin-Charlottenburg, HRB 91532 B, UST-ID DE 234 517 998 _____________________________________________________________________ Dieses E-Mail ist nur f?r den Empf?nger bestimmt, an den es gerichtet ist und kann vertrauliches bzw. unter das Berufsgeheimnis fallendes Material enthalten. Jegliche darin enthaltene Ansicht oder Meinungs- ?u?erung ist die des Autors und stellt nicht notwendigerweise die Ansicht oder Meinung von Bally Wulff Entertainment GmbH dar. Sind Sie nicht der Empf?nger, so haben Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten und jegliche Verwendung, Ver?ffentlichung, Weiterleitung, Abschrift oder jeglicher Druck dieser E-Mail ist strengstens untersagt. Weder Bally Wulff Entertainment GmbH noch der Absender (Volker Werth) ?bernehmen die Haftung f?r Viren; es obliegt Ihrer Verantwortung, die E-Mail und deren 0 Anh?nge auf Viren zu pr?fen. 0 Anh?nge: _____________________________________________________________________ Versand am 10.07.2008 15:07 von Werth Volker From ticso at cicely7.cicely.de Thu Jul 10 13:31:54 2008 From: ticso at cicely7.cicely.de (Bernd Walter) Date: Thu Jul 10 13:32:02 2008 Subject: error 1 lba 752976 while booting from USB key to install In-Reply-To: <20080710131716.GA11658@rebelion.Sisis.de> References: <20080710124658.GA10730@rebelion.Sisis.de> <200807101301.m6AD1sCj031951@lurza.secnetix.de> <20080710131716.GA11658@rebelion.Sisis.de> Message-ID: <20080710133141.GI53829@cicely7.cicely.de> On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 03:17:16PM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote: > El d?a Thursday, July 10, 2008 a las 03:01:54PM +0200, Oliver Fromme escribi?: > > > Matthias Apitz wrote: > > > so I cam up with the idea to boot from that USB key I have used to > > > install 7.0-REL on that eeePC, i.e. the USB key works fine in any > > > laptop; on the HP NAT 1000s storage system it says: > > > > > > FreBSD/i386 > > > Default: 0:ad(0,a)/boot/kernel/kernel > > > > Hm. Strange. The boot0 code should load /boot/loader, > > not the kernel. (While it is possible to load the kernel > > directly under certain conditions, AFAIK, it is better > > to go the "official" way and let the bootloader do its > > job.) > > > > Have you modified the boot sequence on that USB stick in > > a special way? Please make sure that it contains the > > proper infrastructure, i.e. a /boot directory with the > > loader, a kernel subdirectory etc. > > > and again: the USB key works fine in the eeePC 900 and other laptops I > have; If the device works with another system then this is purely a BIOS/USB-device compatibility problem. FreeBSD bootcode has to use the BIOS to read disk blocks, since the kernel isn't running yet. -- B.Walter http://www.bwct.de Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm. From olli at lurza.secnetix.de Thu Jul 10 14:12:11 2008 From: olli at lurza.secnetix.de (Oliver Fromme) Date: Thu Jul 10 14:12:18 2008 Subject: error 1 lba 752976 while booting from USB key to install In-Reply-To: <20080710131716.GA11658@rebelion.Sisis.de> Message-ID: <200807101412.m6AEC8GP035243@lurza.secnetix.de> Matthias Apitz wrote: > I've created the USB key like this (more or less) and did not specified > or changed anything in the boot-sequence: > [...] > and again: the USB key works fine in the eeePC 900 and other laptops I > have; > > here is what is in /mnt/boot: > [...] OK, that looks good. So it's probably the well-known BIOS access problem that was patched in FreeBSD's BTX code after 7.0-RELEASE. I suggest you try RELENG_7 or the June snapshot, as explained in my previous mail. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch?ftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M?n- chen, HRB 125758, Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "Life is short (You need Python)" -- Bruce Eckel, ANSI C++ Comitee member, author of "Thinking in C++" and "Thinking in Java" From fbsd.hackers at rachie.is-a-geek.net Thu Jul 10 15:07:40 2008 From: fbsd.hackers at rachie.is-a-geek.net (Mel) Date: Thu Jul 10 15:07:47 2008 Subject: error 1 lba 752976 while booting from USB key to install In-Reply-To: <20080710124658.GA10730@rebelion.Sisis.de> References: <20080710124658.GA10730@rebelion.Sisis.de> Message-ID: <200807101652.32039.fbsd.hackers@rachie.is-a-geek.net> On Thursday 10 July 2008 14:46:58 Matthias Apitz wrote: > Hello, > > I've some server (a 2 years old HP NAT 1000s storage system) and > I want to drop the installed W2k system and re-install it with > FreeBSD 7.0R and later use it as a central backup-system with > Bacula. > > The problem is that this server has no CD or DVD device, but can > (theoretically) boot from external USB CD/DVD (which I don't have > either); > > so I cam up with the idea to boot from that USB key I have used to > install 7.0-REL on that eeePC, i.e. the USB key works fine in any > laptop; on the HP NAT 1000s storage system it says: > > FreBSD/i386 > Default: 0:ad(0,a)/boot/kernel/kernel > boot: error 1 lba 752976 > No /boot/kernel/kernel Let me ask a stupid question: why is it trying to access an ATA/ATAPI disk, not an USB (scsi da(4)) disk. Can you boot via: 0:da(0,a)/boot/kernel/kernel Or variants of those, see boot(8) for the syntax explanation. -- Mel From koitsu at FreeBSD.org Thu Jul 10 15:31:18 2008 From: koitsu at FreeBSD.org (Jeremy Chadwick) Date: Thu Jul 10 15:31:25 2008 Subject: error 1 lba 752976 while booting from USB key to install In-Reply-To: <200807101652.32039.fbsd.hackers@rachie.is-a-geek.net> References: <20080710124658.GA10730@rebelion.Sisis.de> <200807101652.32039.fbsd.hackers@rachie.is-a-geek.net> Message-ID: <20080710153118.GA75083@eos.sc1.parodius.com> On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 04:52:31PM +0200, Mel wrote: > On Thursday 10 July 2008 14:46:58 Matthias Apitz wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I've some server (a 2 years old HP NAT 1000s storage system) and > > I want to drop the installed W2k system and re-install it with > > FreeBSD 7.0R and later use it as a central backup-system with > > Bacula. > > > > The problem is that this server has no CD or DVD device, but can > > (theoretically) boot from external USB CD/DVD (which I don't have > > either); > > > > so I cam up with the idea to boot from that USB key I have used to > > install 7.0-REL on that eeePC, i.e. the USB key works fine in any > > laptop; on the HP NAT 1000s storage system it says: > > > > FreBSD/i386 > > Default: 0:ad(0,a)/boot/kernel/kernel > > boot: error 1 lba 752976 > > No /boot/kernel/kernel > > Let me ask a stupid question: why is it trying to access an ATA/ATAPI disk, > not an USB (scsi da(4)) disk. Can you boot via: > 0:da(0,a)/boot/kernel/kernel > > Or variants of those, see boot(8) for the syntax explanation. Because the system BIOS is very likely using some form of ATA emulation to make the USB device available for booting. Many BIOSes let you pick what kind of emulation mode to use, though -- and there are many. USB-FDD, USB-HDD, USB-ZIP, USB-CDROM, USB-KEY, USB-LS120, etc... They're all handled in different ways. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From jhs at berklix.org Thu Jul 10 15:45:58 2008 From: jhs at berklix.org (Julian Stacey) Date: Thu Jul 10 15:46:08 2008 Subject: GPG encryption of binary sample requested. Message-ID: <200807101529.m6AFSwIT052044@fire.js.berklix.net> Hi hackers@freebsd.org Could a few people please post to list saying they will private mail me (off list) some encrypted binary junk please ? If you have a Microsoft PC (or non BSD) to mail binary junk from, so much the better, but some BSD too would help. Examples: dd if=/dev/random of=junk count=20000 /boot/kernel/kernel Please also mail output of md5 junk # or kernel I'd like to prove my FreeBSD can receive large encrypted binary from MS, as: I have an MS sender who can't mail me large encrypted binaries, I get gpg: fatal: zlib inflate problem: invalid code lengths set secmem usage: 2048/4000 bytes in 4/9 blocks of pool 5120/32768 I'm receiving Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I suspect it's not his Microsoft as such failing to send, but likely his MS mailer &/or corporate defaults or gateway failing to ascii armour & encrypt in right order. I send large base64 encrypted binaries OK using exmh & gpg. I append my GPG public key, as a MIME enclosure, to make it easy to click & save, (but guessing the freebsd.org mailman will chop that), indented for edit below, & also here http://www.berklix.org/~jhs/txt/pgp.html Thanks for any help ! Julian S. 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HTML & Base64 text are spam. www.asciiribbon.org From xcllnt at mac.com Thu Jul 10 17:08:52 2008 From: xcllnt at mac.com (Marcel Moolenaar) Date: Thu Jul 10 17:09:04 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <48759BD8.20404@wubethiopia.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> <48737F79.6070401@wubethiopia.com> <20080708190407.GA68713@rink.nu> <47A12EFB-2433-4E60-BE15-48E1BDD22238@mac.com> <48759BD8.20404@wubethiopia.com> Message-ID: On Jul 9, 2008, at 10:19 PM, Mike Makonnen wrote: >> Yes, libdisk is bad. GEOM_PART has been designed >> for use by installers. It can be interfaced >> faily easily. See gpart(8) for example. > > Is there documentation for the geom_part API somewhere (I couldn't > find any) > or do I have to look at gpart(8) to figure out how to use it? I haven't written any documentation yet, so gpart(8) is probably the best place to start. > Is it ok to > just use gpart(8) instead of using the geom_part API? Using gpart(8) works just fine, except that you don't have access to all the information that's in the XML. Things like geometry come to mind. But of course, you can always read the XML, use gpart(8) to make a change and read the XML again. Having that, it's only a tiny step to use the gctl interface directly. FYI, -- Marcel Moolenaar xcllnt@mac.com From MTaylor at bytecraft.com.au Thu Jul 10 23:46:03 2008 From: MTaylor at bytecraft.com.au (Murray Taylor) Date: Thu Jul 10 23:46:11 2008 Subject: massive interrupt storm Message-ID: <04E232FDCD9FBE43857F7066CAD3C0F15B82E7@svmailmel.bytecraft.internal> -----Original Message----- From: Jeremy Chadwick [mailto:koitsu@FreeBSD.org] Sent: Tuesday, 8 July 2008 5:37 PM To: Murray Taylor Cc: Sergey Babkin; freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: massive interrupt storm On Tue, Jul 08, 2008 at 05:21:34PM +1000, Murray Taylor wrote: > We have variously shutdown all USB in the bios, pulled the > Raid daughter board, and still cant solve this storm. Have you tried disabling MSI and MSI-X in FreeBSD to see if it makes a difference? Set hw.pci.enable_msi="0" and hw.pci.enable_msix="0" in /boot/loader.conf and reboot. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | Nope, :( Interrupt usage is still around the 89-95% :( NB sysctl -a | grep msi returns nothing, and attempting to set the values directly returns 'unknown OID' this is on 6.2 GENERIC --------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted in this e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended addressee and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, dissemination or other use of it, or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons and/or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please inform the sender and/or addressee immediately and delete the material. E-mails may not be secure, may contain computer viruses and may be corrupted in transmission. Please carefully check this e-mail (and any attachment) accordingly. No warranties are given and no liability is accepted for any loss or damage caused by such matters. --------------------------------------------------------------- ### This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses by Bytecraft ### From danny at cs.huji.ac.il Fri Jul 11 12:57:02 2008 From: danny at cs.huji.ac.il (Danny Braniss) Date: Fri Jul 11 12:57:09 2008 Subject: AuthenticAMD, cpufreq and SunFire X2200 Message-ID: Hi, I'm trying to find out why there is no frequency info. ie: sunfire> sysctl dev.cpu.0 dev.cpu.0.%desc: ACPI CPU dev.cpu.0.%driver: cpu dev.cpu.0.%location: handle=\_PR_.P001 dev.cpu.0.%pnpinfo: _HID=none _UID=0 dev.cpu.0.%parent: acpi0 dev.cpu.0.cx_supported: C1/0 dev.cpu.0.cx_lowest: C1 dev.cpu.0.cx_usage: 100.00% so any help/insight is most welcome. BTW, its 7.0-stable danny From fbsd.hackers at rachie.is-a-geek.net Fri Jul 11 13:17:56 2008 From: fbsd.hackers at rachie.is-a-geek.net (Mel) Date: Fri Jul 11 13:18:06 2008 Subject: Kernel API docs ('make doxygen') Message-ID: <200807111517.54399.fbsd.hackers@rachie.is-a-geek.net> Hi, I was wondering if this project is considered obsolete, finished or work in progress. If it's the latter, I'm happy to do the legwork, like set up proper stubs for each function and structure that people who really know how they work can adjust. There's a lot already in there with normal comments, that can become documentation by simply adding an extra asterisk. -- Mel From koitsu at FreeBSD.org Fri Jul 11 14:37:32 2008 From: koitsu at FreeBSD.org (Jeremy Chadwick) Date: Fri Jul 11 14:37:39 2008 Subject: AuthenticAMD, cpufreq and SunFire X2200 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080711143732.GA50740@eos.sc1.parodius.com> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 03:57:00PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: > Hi, > I'm trying to find out why there is no frequency info. > ie: > sunfire> sysctl dev.cpu.0 > dev.cpu.0.%desc: ACPI CPU > dev.cpu.0.%driver: cpu > dev.cpu.0.%location: handle=\_PR_.P001 > dev.cpu.0.%pnpinfo: _HID=none _UID=0 > dev.cpu.0.%parent: acpi0 > dev.cpu.0.cx_supported: C1/0 > dev.cpu.0.cx_lowest: C1 > dev.cpu.0.cx_usage: 100.00% > > so any help/insight is most welcome. > > BTW, its 7.0-stable Is the cpufreq device in your kernel config? Do the SunFire X2200's provide any sort of frequency data in their ACPI tables? Are there BIOS settings which are relevant to this board enabling Cool'n'Quiet or anything else of that nature (thus inducing the use of powernow(4))? -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From jhs at berklix.org Fri Jul 11 16:08:47 2008 From: jhs at berklix.org (Julian Stacey) Date: Fri Jul 11 16:08:54 2008 Subject: GPG encryption of binary sample requested. Message-ID: <200807111608.m6BG8rkg002408@fire.js.berklix.net> Summary: A problem in zlib is confirmed here (for mail gpg decryption), do others see this too or have comment please ? Re my: > Could a few people please post to list saying they will private > mail me (off list) some encrypted binary junk please ? If you have > a Microsoft PC (or non BSD) to mail binary junk from, so much the > better, but some BSD too would help. 3 Samples: Ivan Voras sent extract below. > User-agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080505) ..... > This is an OpenPGP/MIME encrypted message (RFC 2440 and 3156) > --------------enigB5EAC3335274D5D400B6D1CA > Content-Type: application/pgp-encrypted > Content-Description: PGP/MIME version identification > > Version: 1 > > --------------enigB5EAC3335274D5D400B6D1CA > Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="encrypted.asc" > Content-Description: OpenPGP encrypted message > Content-Disposition: inline; filename="encrypted.asc" > > -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > hQIOA/uC25joLDZ6EAf+N4k9AImLAcSuBjG5rmfyc23WMjQum7vQ3LhaCI3lRfrH 221903 lines deleted > tY1rdGkrZ0YZ5ECQHSkBvroUNCjbbmqngnE39Do7cxtGJRMimlZfGf/xporskUkI > eO8ncINtD8NGOqFilyZv > =MTbn > -----END PGP MESSAGE----- > > --------------enigB5EAC3335274D5D400B6D1CA-- Thanks Ivan ! My EXMH-2.7.2 on FreeBSD-6.2 amd64 reported: encrypted with ELG-E key, ID 149FDD60 encrypted with 2048-bit ELG-E key, ID E82C367A, created 2008-06-04 "Julian H. Stacey (20080604103910) " fatal: zlib inflate problem: invalid distance code secmem usage: 2784/4128 bytes in 6/10 blocks of pool 6112/32768 Gary J mailed me from FreeBSD (current I guess) X-mailer: Claws Mail 3.5.0 (GTK+ 2.10.14; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.0) & EXMH reported encrypted with 2048-bit ELG-E key, ID F61A79A1, created 2008-06-03 "Gary Jennejohn (Lee) " encrypted with 2048-bit ELG-E key, ID E82C367A, created 2008-06-04 "Julian H. Stacey (20080604103910) " [don't know]: invalid packet (ctb=51) [don't know]: invalid packet (ctb=41) WARNING: encrypted message has been manipulated! [don't know]: invalid packet (ctb=41) no valid OpenPGP data found. A Microsoft user sent me a gpg encoded MIME enclosure I clicked to save that then reported: file file.asc PGP armored data message gpg -d -o xx file.asc You need a passphrase to unlock the secret key for user: "Julian H. Stacey (20080604103910) " 2048-bit ELG-E key, ID E82C367A, created 2008-06-04 (main key ID F986DFE1) gpg: encrypted with 2048-bit ELG-E key, ID E82C367A, created 2008-06-04 "Julian H. Stacey (20080604103910) " gpg: fatal: zlib inflate problem: invalid distance code secmem usage: 2048/3712 bytes in 4/8 blocks of pool 4832/32768 I ran: cd /usr/src ; find . -name \*zlib\* | xargs touch ; make all install exited & restarted exmh & retyped passphrase, & problem persists. I tried running EXMH on 7.0 686 ( very slow, problems with NFS/AMD (or maybe some gbde linked ~/.* initialisers ) & still a problem with zlib. I would try claws-mail, but a problem with gpg-agent (maybe local net related?) I guess I'll try thunderbird. Any comments/ ideas very welcome. Julian -- Julian Stacey: BSDUnixLinux C Prog Admin SysEng Consult Munich www.berklix.com Mail plain ASCII text. HTML & Base64 text are spam. www.asciiribbon.org From koitsu at FreeBSD.org Fri Jul 11 19:38:15 2008 From: koitsu at FreeBSD.org (Jeremy Chadwick) Date: Fri Jul 11 19:38:23 2008 Subject: AuthenticAMD, cpufreq and SunFire X2200 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080711193815.GA63636@eos.sc1.parodius.com> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 09:40:11PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 03:57:00PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: > > > Hi, > > > I'm trying to find out why there is no frequency info. > > > ie: > > > sunfire> sysctl dev.cpu.0 > > > dev.cpu.0.%desc: ACPI CPU > > > dev.cpu.0.%driver: cpu > > > dev.cpu.0.%location: handle=\_PR_.P001 > > > dev.cpu.0.%pnpinfo: _HID=none _UID=0 > > > dev.cpu.0.%parent: acpi0 > > > dev.cpu.0.cx_supported: C1/0 > > > dev.cpu.0.cx_lowest: C1 > > > dev.cpu.0.cx_usage: 100.00% > > > > > > so any help/insight is most welcome. > > > > > > BTW, its 7.0-stable > > > > Is the cpufreq device in your kernel config? Do the SunFire X2200's > > provide any sort of frequency data in their ACPI tables? Are there BIOS > > settings which are relevant to this board enabling Cool'n'Quiet or > > anything else of that nature (thus inducing the use of powernow(4))? > > > device is configured: > config -x /boot/kernel/kernel | grep -a cpufreq > device cpufreq > the BIOS has powernow enabled (or something similar). > the kernel prints: > ... > powernow0: on cpu0 > powernow0: STATUS: 0x3106120806120212 > powernow0: STATUS: maxfid: 0x12 > powernow0: STATUS: maxvid: 0x06 > ... > the same is repeated for cpu 1,2,3,4,5,6 & 7 - yes it's a dual quad. > > which seem to indicate that it didn't like the ACPI data it got - this by > comparing with other amd's that do report correctly. > > as to the question '...any sort of frequency data in their ACPI tables' > I tried to 'read' the ACPI data, but didn't understand the language :-( First and foremost, please don't remove the mailing list from the CC line; others need to know the technical details. I don't have an answer for you, however. Nate Lawson might have some ideas as to what's going on. A verbose boot may be needed. I've CC'd Nate here. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From nate at root.org Fri Jul 11 19:52:38 2008 From: nate at root.org (Nate Lawson) Date: Fri Jul 11 19:58:15 2008 Subject: AuthenticAMD, cpufreq and SunFire X2200 In-Reply-To: <20080711193815.GA63636@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <20080711193815.GA63636@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Message-ID: <4877B797.9020209@root.org> Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 09:40:11PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: >>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 03:57:00PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> I'm trying to find out why there is no frequency info. >>>> ie: >>>> sunfire> sysctl dev.cpu.0 >>>> dev.cpu.0.%desc: ACPI CPU >>>> dev.cpu.0.%driver: cpu >>>> dev.cpu.0.%location: handle=\_PR_.P001 >>>> dev.cpu.0.%pnpinfo: _HID=none _UID=0 >>>> dev.cpu.0.%parent: acpi0 >>>> dev.cpu.0.cx_supported: C1/0 >>>> dev.cpu.0.cx_lowest: C1 >>>> dev.cpu.0.cx_usage: 100.00% >>>> >>>> so any help/insight is most welcome. >>>> >>>> BTW, its 7.0-stable >>> Is the cpufreq device in your kernel config? Do the SunFire X2200's >>> provide any sort of frequency data in their ACPI tables? Are there BIOS >>> settings which are relevant to this board enabling Cool'n'Quiet or >>> anything else of that nature (thus inducing the use of powernow(4))? >>> >> device is configured: >> config -x /boot/kernel/kernel | grep -a cpufreq >> device cpufreq >> the BIOS has powernow enabled (or something similar). >> the kernel prints: >> ... >> powernow0: on cpu0 >> powernow0: STATUS: 0x3106120806120212 >> powernow0: STATUS: maxfid: 0x12 >> powernow0: STATUS: maxvid: 0x06 >> ... >> the same is repeated for cpu 1,2,3,4,5,6 & 7 - yes it's a dual quad. >> >> which seem to indicate that it didn't like the ACPI data it got - this by >> comparing with other amd's that do report correctly. >> >> as to the question '...any sort of frequency data in their ACPI tables' >> I tried to 'read' the ACPI data, but didn't understand the language :-( > > First and foremost, please don't remove the mailing list from the CC > line; others need to know the technical details. > > I don't have an answer for you, however. Nate Lawson might have some > ideas as to what's going on. A verbose boot may be needed. I've > CC'd Nate here. Looks like someone should check the AMD datasheets and/or acpidump. I'm currently not an active committer though. -- Nate From danny at cs.huji.ac.il Fri Jul 11 20:05:39 2008 From: danny at cs.huji.ac.il (Danny Braniss) Date: Fri Jul 11 20:05:46 2008 Subject: AuthenticAMD, cpufreq and SunFire X2200 In-Reply-To: <4877B797.9020209@root.org> References: <20080711193815.GA63636@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <4877B797.9020209@root.org> Message-ID: > Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 09:40:11PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: > >>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 03:57:00PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: > >>>> Hi, > >>>> I'm trying to find out why there is no frequency info. > >>>> ie: > >>>> sunfire> sysctl dev.cpu.0 > >>>> dev.cpu.0.%desc: ACPI CPU > >>>> dev.cpu.0.%driver: cpu > >>>> dev.cpu.0.%location: handle=\_PR_.P001 > >>>> dev.cpu.0.%pnpinfo: _HID=none _UID=0 > >>>> dev.cpu.0.%parent: acpi0 > >>>> dev.cpu.0.cx_supported: C1/0 > >>>> dev.cpu.0.cx_lowest: C1 > >>>> dev.cpu.0.cx_usage: 100.00% > >>>> > >>>> so any help/insight is most welcome. > >>>> > >>>> BTW, its 7.0-stable > >>> Is the cpufreq device in your kernel config? Do the SunFire X2200's > >>> provide any sort of frequency data in their ACPI tables? Are there BIOS > >>> settings which are relevant to this board enabling Cool'n'Quiet or > >>> anything else of that nature (thus inducing the use of powernow(4))? > >>> > >> device is configured: > >> config -x /boot/kernel/kernel | grep -a cpufreq > >> device cpufreq > >> the BIOS has powernow enabled (or something similar). > >> the kernel prints: > >> ... > >> powernow0: on cpu0 > >> powernow0: STATUS: 0x3106120806120212 > >> powernow0: STATUS: maxfid: 0x12 > >> powernow0: STATUS: maxvid: 0x06 > >> ... > >> the same is repeated for cpu 1,2,3,4,5,6 & 7 - yes it's a dual quad. > >> > >> which seem to indicate that it didn't like the ACPI data it got - this by > >> comparing with other amd's that do report correctly. > >> > >> as to the question '...any sort of frequency data in their ACPI tables' > >> I tried to 'read' the ACPI data, but didn't understand the language :-( > > > > First and foremost, please don't remove the mailing list from the CC > > line; others need to know the technical details. > > sorry, it's the old fashioned MUA. > > I don't have an answer for you, however. Nate Lawson might have some > > ideas as to what's going on. A verbose boot may be needed. I've > > CC'd Nate here. > > Looks like someone should check the AMD datasheets and/or acpidump. I'm > currently not an active committer though. no AMD datasheets, but here goes acpidump: /* RSD PTR: OEM=ACPIAM, ACPI_Rev=2.0x (2) XSDT=0xdfff0100, length=36, cksum=253 */ /* XSDT: Length=76, Revision=1, Checksum=132, OEMID=A M I, OEM Table ID=OEMXSDT, OEM Revision=0x7000704, Creator ID=MSFT, Creator Revision=0x97 Entries={ 0xdfff0290, 0xdfff0390, 0xdfff0410, 0xdfffe040, 0xdfff4f90 } */ /* FACP: Length=244, Revision=3, Checksum=95, OEMID=A M I, OEM Table ID=OEMFACP, OEM Revision=0x7000704, Creator ID=MSFT, Creator Revision=0x97 FACS=0xdfffe000, DSDT=0xdfff04a0 INT_MODEL=APIC Preferred_PM_Profile=Enterprise Server (4) SCI_INT=9 SMI_CMD=0x242e, ACPI_ENABLE=0xe1, ACPI_DISABLE=0x1e, S4BIOS_REQ=0x0 PSTATE_CNT=0xe2 PM1a_EVT_BLK=0x2000-0x2003 PM1a_CNT_BLK=0x2004-0x2005 PM_TMR_BLK=0x2008-0x200b GPE0_BLK=0x2020-0x2027 GPE1_BLK=0x24a0-0x24af, GPE1_BASE=32 CST_CNT=0xe3 P_LVL2_LAT=101 us, P_LVL3_LAT=1001 us FLUSH_SIZE=1024, FLUSH_STRIDE=16 DUTY_OFFSET=1, DUTY_WIDTH=0 DAY_ALRM=125, MON_ALRM=126, CENTURY=50 IAPC_BOOT_ARCH={LEGACY_DEV,8042} Flags={WBINVD,PROC_C1,SLP_BUTTON,RTC_S4,HEADLESS} X_FACS=0xdfffe000, X_DSDT=0xdfff04a0 X_PM1a_EVT_BLK=0x2000:0[32] (IO) X_PM1a_CNT_BLK=0x2004:0[16] (IO) X_PM_TMR_BLK=0x2008:0[32] (IO) X_GPE0_BLK=0x2020:0[64] (IO) X_GPE1_BLK=0x24a0:0[128] (IO) */ /* FACS: Length=64, HwSig=0x00000000, Firm_Wake_Vec=0x00000000 Global_Lock= Flags= Version=1 */ /* DSDT: Length=19183, Revision=1, Checksum=118, OEMID=S39_3, OEM Table ID=S39_3B17, OEM Revision=0xb17, Creator ID=INTL, Creator Revision=0x20051117 */ /* APIC: Length=118, Revision=1, Checksum=203, OEMID=A M I, OEM Table ID=OEMAPIC, OEM Revision=0x7000704, Creator ID=MSFT, Creator Revision=0x97 Local APIC ADDR=0xfee00000 Flags={PC-AT} Type=Local APIC ACPI CPU=1 Flags={ENABLED} APIC ID=0 Type=Local APIC ACPI CPU=2 Flags={ENABLED} APIC ID=1 Type=Local APIC ACPI CPU=3 Flags={ENABLED} APIC ID=2 Type=Local APIC ACPI CPU=4 Flags={ENABLED} APIC ID=3 Type=IO APIC APIC ID=4 INT BASE=0 ADDR=0x00000000fec00000 Type=INT Override BUS=0 IRQ=9 INTR=9 Flags={Polarity=active-hi, Trigger=level} Type=INT Override BUS=0 IRQ=14 INTR=14 Flags={Polarity=active-hi, Trigger=edge} Type=INT Override BUS=0 IRQ=15 INTR=15 Flags={Polarity=active-hi, Trigger=edge} */ /* SPCR: Length=80, Revision=1, Checksum=24, OEMID=A M I, OEM Table ID=OEMSPCR, OEM Revision=0x7000704, Creator ID=MSFT, Creator Revision=0x97 */ /* SRAT: Length=272, Revision=1, Checksum=15, OEMID=AMD, OEM Table ID=HAMMER, OEM Revision=0x1, Creator ID=AMD, Creator Revision=0x1 */ From rpaulo at FreeBSD.org Fri Jul 11 23:45:03 2008 From: rpaulo at FreeBSD.org (Rui Paulo) Date: Fri Jul 11 23:45:32 2008 Subject: AuthenticAMD, cpufreq and SunFire X2200 In-Reply-To: References: <20080711193815.GA63636@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <4877B797.9020209@root.org> Message-ID: <20080711234407.GA3661@phi.local> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 11:05:36PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: > no AMD datasheets, but here goes acpidump: I think we need more than the dump of the tables. Try acpidump -dt. Unfortunately, I can't really help you because I know nothing about PowerNow and I have no available time at the moment to dig that up. -- Rui Paulo From danny at cs.huji.ac.il Sat Jul 12 05:35:53 2008 From: danny at cs.huji.ac.il (Danny Braniss) Date: Sat Jul 12 05:36:01 2008 Subject: AuthenticAMD, cpufreq and SunFire X2200 In-Reply-To: <20080711234407.GA3661@phi.local> References: <20080711193815.GA63636@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <4877B797.9020209@root.org> <20080711234407.GA3661@phi.local> Message-ID: > On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 11:05:36PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: > > no AMD datasheets, but here goes acpidump: > > I think we need more than the dump of the tables. > Try acpidump -dt. > it was a acpidump -dt, but now I also notice: acpidump -dt > /tmp/acpi acpidump: RSDT entry 3 (sig OEMB) is corrupt iasl tmp file (read): No such file or directory > Unfortunately, I can't really help you because I know nothing about > PowerNow and I have no available time at the moment to dig that up. > > -- > Rui Paulo From danny at cs.huji.ac.il Sat Jul 12 07:18:19 2008 From: danny at cs.huji.ac.il (Danny Braniss) Date: Sat Jul 12 07:18:26 2008 Subject: AuthenticAMD, cpufreq and SunFire X2200 In-Reply-To: References: <20080711193815.GA63636@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <4877B797.9020209@root.org> <20080711234407.GA3661@phi.local> Message-ID: > > On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 11:05:36PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: > > > no AMD datasheets, but here goes acpidump: > > > > I think we need more than the dump of the tables. > > Try acpidump -dt. > > > it was a acpidump -dt, but now I also notice: > acpidump -dt > /tmp/acpi > acpidump: RSDT entry 3 (sig OEMB) is corrupt > iasl tmp file (read): No such file or directory RTFM! or read the error message :-) It seems that acpidump writes in the current directory (but does not complain if it fails) but does complain when it can't read! I was running as root, but from my NFS mounted home dir. anyways, this one is slightly bigger: ftp://ftp.cs.huji.ac.il/users/danny/freebsd/x2200.asl cheers, danny From tomrapier at mailvault.com Sat Jul 12 19:06:41 2008 From: tomrapier at mailvault.com (tomrapier) Date: Sat Jul 12 19:27:51 2008 Subject: AMD Geode LX crypto accelerator (glxsb) - invalid engine "cryptodev" Message-ID: <20080712185109.42684B64134@gateway.mailvault.com> Hello, I'm having trouble with the OpenSSL benchmark. It isn't able to load cryptodev. Output attached. Any pointers? Thanks. - Tom -------------- next part -------------- $ openssl speed -engine cryptodev -elapsed -evp aes-128-cbc aes-128-cbc invalid engine "cryptodev" 11286:error:25066067:DSO support routines:DLFCN_LOAD:could not load the shared library:/usr/src/secure/lib/libcrypto/../../../crypto/openssl/crypto/dso/dso_dlfcn.c:162:filename(/usr/lib/engines/libcryptodev.so): Cannot open "/usr/lib/engines/libcryptodev.so" 11286:error:25070067:DSO support routines:DSO_load:could not load the shared library:/usr/src/secure/lib/libcrypto/../../../crypto/openssl/crypto/dso/dso_lib.c:244: 11286:error:260B6084:engine routines:DYNAMIC_LOAD:dso not found:/usr/src/secure/lib/libcrypto/../../../crypto/openssl/crypto/engine/eng_dyn.c:450: 11286:error:2606A074:engine routines:ENGINE_by_id:no such engine:/usr/src/secure/lib/libcrypto/../../../crypto/openssl/crypto/engine/eng_list.c:415:id=cryptodev 11286:error:25066067:DSO support routines:DLFCN_LOAD:could not load the shared library:/usr/src/secure/lib/libcrypto/../../../crypto/openssl/crypto/dso/dso_dlfcn.c:162:filename(libcryptodev.so): Shared object "libcryptodev.so" not found, required by "openssl" 11286:error:25070067:DSO support routines:DSO_load:could not load the shared library:/usr/src/secure/lib/libcrypto/../../../crypto/openssl/crypto/dso/dso_lib.c:244: 11286:error:260B6084:engine routines:DYNAMIC_LOAD:dso not found:/usr/src/secure/lib/libcrypto/../../../crypto/openssl/crypto/engine/eng_dyn.c:450: You have chosen to measure elapsed time instead of user CPU time. To get the most accurate results, try to run this program when this computer is idle. Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 16 size blocks: 981606 aes-128 cbc's in 3.00s Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 64 size blocks: 258602 aes-128 cbc's in 3.00s Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 256 size blocks: 65471 aes-128 cbc's in 3.00s Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 1024 size blocks: 16451 aes-128 cbc's in 3.00s Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 8192 size blocks: 2058 aes-128 cbc's in 3.00s Doing aes-128-cbc for 3s on 16 size blocks: 913121 aes-128-cbc's in 3.00s Doing aes-128-cbc for 3s on 64 size blocks: 249883 aes-128-cbc's in 3.00s Doing aes-128-cbc for 3s on 256 size blocks: 64875 aes-128-cbc's in 3.00s Doing aes-128-cbc for 3s on 1024 size blocks: 16367 aes-128-cbc's in 3.00s Doing aes-128-cbc for 3s on 8192 size blocks: 2058 aes-128-cbc's in 3.00s OpenSSL 0.9.8e 23 Feb 2007 built on: Sun Feb 24 16:11:39 UTC 2008 options:bn(64,32) md2(int) rc4(idx,int) des(ptr,risc1,16,long) aes(partial) blowfish(idx) compiler: cc available timing options: USE_TOD HZ=128 [sysconf value] timing function used: gettimeofday The 'numbers' are in 1000s of bytes per second processed. type 16 bytes 64 bytes 256 bytes 1024 bytes 8192 bytes aes-128 cbc 5234.72k 5516.54k 5586.44k 5614.71k 5617.06k aes-128-cbc 4868.70k 5330.56k 5535.58k 5586.03k 5617.14k $ uname -a FreeBSD router.local 7.0-RELEASE-p2 FreeBSD 7.0-RELEASE-p2 #0: Wed Jun 18 07:33:20 UTC 2008 root@i386-builder.daemonology.net:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC i386 $ openssl engine (padlock) VIA PadLock (no-RNG, no-ACE) (dynamic) Dynamic engine loading support $ dmesg |grep glx glxsb0: mem 0xefff4000-0xefff7fff irq 9 at device 1.2 on pci0 $ kldstat Id Refs Address Size Name 1 6 0xc0400000 906578 kernel 2 1 0xc2553000 3000 pflog.ko 3 1 0xc2556000 33000 pf.ko 4 1 0xc2e07000 5000 glxsb.ko 5 1 0xc2e0c000 23000 crypto.ko 6 1 0xc2e2f000 a000 zlib.ko From asmodai at in-nomine.org Sat Jul 12 19:32:24 2008 From: asmodai at in-nomine.org (Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven) Date: Sat Jul 12 19:32:32 2008 Subject: AMD Geode LX crypto accelerator (glxsb) - invalid engine "cryptodev" In-Reply-To: <20080712185109.42684B64134@gateway.mailvault.com> References: <20080712185109.42684B64134@gateway.mailvault.com> Message-ID: <20080712193221.GA27106@nexus.in-nomine.org> -On [20080712 21:28], tomrapier (tomrapier@mailvault.com) wrote: >I'm having trouble with the OpenSSL benchmark. It isn't able to load >cryptodev. Output attached. > >Any pointers? >$ kldstat >Id Refs Address Size Name > 1 6 0xc0400000 906578 kernel > 2 1 0xc2553000 3000 pflog.ko > 3 1 0xc2556000 33000 pf.ko > 4 1 0xc2e07000 5000 glxsb.ko > 5 1 0xc2e0c000 23000 crypto.ko > 6 1 0xc2e2f000 a000 zlib.ko How about: kldload cryptodev? [21:30] [asmodai@nexus] (0) {0} % sudo kldload cryptodev Password: (~) [21:31] [asmodai@nexus] (0) {0} % openssl speed -engine cryptodev -elapsed -evp aes-128-cbc aes-128-cbc engine "cryptodev" set. You have chosen to measure elapsed time instead of user CPU time. To get the most accurate results, try to run this program when this computer is idle. Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 16 size blocks: 7539390 aes-128 cbc's in 3.00s -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven / asmodai ????? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B Yet each man kills the thing he loves... From tomrapier at mailvault.com Sat Jul 12 19:43:43 2008 From: tomrapier at mailvault.com (tomrapier) Date: Sat Jul 12 21:15:38 2008 Subject: AMD Geode LX crypto accelerator (glxsb) - invalid engine "cryptodev" Message-ID: <20080712194707.2DF7AB6413E@gateway.mailvault.com> On 12-Jul-2008 21:35:54 +0200, you wrote: > -On [20080712 21:28], tomrapier (tomrapier@mailvault.com) wrote: > >I'm having trouble with the OpenSSL benchmark. It isn't able to load > >cryptodev. Output attached. > > > >Any pointers? > > >$ kldstat > >Id Refs Address Size Name > > 1 6 0xc0400000 906578 kernel > > 2 1 0xc2553000 3000 pflog.ko > > 3 1 0xc2556000 33000 pf.ko > > 4 1 0xc2e07000 5000 glxsb.ko > > 5 1 0xc2e0c000 23000 crypto.ko > > 6 1 0xc2e2f000 a000 zlib.ko > > How about: kldload cryptodev? > Great, that fixed it. - Tom From ancelgray at yahoo.com Sat Jul 12 20:18:16 2008 From: ancelgray at yahoo.com (ancelgray@yahoo.com) Date: Sat Jul 12 21:21:49 2008 Subject: Hardware support for AMD Geode CS5536 audio? In-Reply-To: <200801240606.m0O66p5V000373@mail.cruzio.com> Message-ID: <26712630.21215920221975.JavaMail.root@wombat.diezmil.com> Bruce, This is Andrew Gray. I am running an Alix-1C board with the CS5536 on it. This board is very nice. It's only about $138 and it has a good "standard" clone AWARD bios that we are all used to (unlike say, the Soekris boards). It uses only 5 watts and has everthing including 21 GPIO pins. (except is doesn't have a Freebsd sound driver yet. Also 3.3V SB audigy SB0090 PCI sound cards don't seem to work in its 3.3V PCI slot). It has serial ports (COM1 & 2) for debug and it has plenty of RAM. It runs at 500 Mhz, so it is fast enough to compile a sound driver. (It takes about 20 seconds). It has a 44-pin laptop IDE interface (ribbon cable has smaller spacing), so you need a 44 pin to 40 pin adapter cable if you want to run a regular HD, and you must power the regular hard drive from SOME OTHER power supply. ALternatively, you can put a 4 meg compact flash in its bay, and just use it as a flash HD. This works fine: http://www.mini-box.com/Alix-1C-Board-1-LAN-1-MINI-PCI?sc=8&category=754 A question for you? Do Freebsd 4.6 drivers still work on freebsd 6.2 and 7.0? Are you working on this CS5536 driver? Do you have hardware yet? Andrew Gray ancelgray "AT" y a h o o "dot" c o m -- This message was sent on behalf of ancelgray@yahoo.com at openSubscriber.com http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org/8451180.html From stas at FreeBSD.org Sat Jul 12 23:15:07 2008 From: stas at FreeBSD.org (Stanislav Sedov) Date: Sat Jul 12 23:15:13 2008 Subject: Help with copytree code In-Reply-To: <200807061326.30152.beech@freebsd.org> References: <200805182328.45822.beech@freebsd.org> <200805182355.24787.beech@freebsd.org> <200807061326.30152.beech@freebsd.org> Message-ID: <20080713023852.a0977807.stas@FreeBSD.org> On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 13:26:21 -0800 Beech Rintoul mentioned: > I'd just like to thank stas@ and everyone who replied with > suggestions, code etc. I believe that I now have something workable > and it's been submitted to portmgr for review and possible inclusion > in bsd.port.mk along with some new features of my own. Hopefully, > this will fix a long standing problem with copytree_*. > Have you filled the PR so we could review/comment? -- Stanislav Sedov ST4096-RIPE From ioplex at gmail.com Sat Jul 12 23:38:39 2008 From: ioplex at gmail.com (Michael B Allen) Date: Sat Jul 12 23:38:45 2008 Subject: Pls sanity check my semtimedop(2) implementation Message-ID: <78c6bd860807121611w4f6ab44brbebfffea9929682a@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Below is a semtimedop(2) implementation that I'm using for FreeBSD. I was hoping someone could look it over and tell me if they think the implementation is sound. The code seems to work ok but when stressing the FreeBSD build of my app I have managed to provoke errors related to concurrency (usually when a SIGALRM goes off). The Linux build works flawlessesly so I'm wondering about this one critical function that is different. Do you think it would make any difference if I used ITIMER_VIRTUAL / SIGVTALRM instead of ITIMER_REAL / SIGALRM? Or perhaps I should be using a different implementation entirely? Mike int _semtimedop(int semid, struct sembuf *array, size_t nops, struct timespec *_timeout) { struct timeval timeout, before, after; struct itimerval value, ovalue; struct sigaction sa, osa; int ret; if (_timeout) { timeout.tv_sec = _timeout->tv_sec; timeout.tv_usec = _timeout->tv_nsec / 1000; if (gettimeofday(&before, NULL) == -1) { return -1; } memset(&value, 0, sizeof value); value.it_value = timeout; memset(&sa, 0, sizeof sa); /* signal_print writes the signal info to a log file */ sa.sa_sigaction = signal_print; sa.sa_flags = SA_SIGINFO; sigemptyset(&sa.sa_mask); sigaction(SIGALRM, &sa, &osa); if (setitimer(ITIMER_REAL, &value, &ovalue) == -1) { sigaction(SIGALRM, &osa, NULL); return -1; } } ret = semop(semid, array, nops); if (_timeout) { sigaction(SIGALRM, &osa, NULL); if (setitimer(ITIMER_REAL, &ovalue, NULL) == -1) { return -1; } } if (ret == -1) { if (_timeout) { struct timeval elapsed; if (gettimeofday(&after, NULL) == -1) { return -1; } _timeval_diff(&after, &before, &elapsed); if (timercmp(&elapsed, &timeout, >=)) errno = EAGAIN; } return -1; } return 0; } From beech at freebsd.org Sun Jul 13 00:30:43 2008 From: beech at freebsd.org (Beech Rintoul) Date: Sun Jul 13 00:30:50 2008 Subject: Help with copytree code In-Reply-To: <20080713023852.a0977807.stas@FreeBSD.org> References: <200805182328.45822.beech@freebsd.org> <200807061326.30152.beech@freebsd.org> <20080713023852.a0977807.stas@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <200807121626.58487.beech@freebsd.org> On Saturday 12 July 2008, Stanislav Sedov said: > On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 13:26:21 -0800 > > Beech Rintoul mentioned: > > I'd just like to thank stas@ and everyone who replied with > > suggestions, code etc. I believe that I now have something > > workable and it's been submitted to portmgr for review and > > possible inclusion in bsd.port.mk along with some new features of > > my own. Hopefully, this will fix a long standing problem with > > copytree_*. > > Have you filled the PR so we could review/comment? No, portmgr (Pav) has it and is reviewing. I'll chat with him and see if he wants me to file a pr. Meanwhile I'll be happy to send it to anyone who wants it. The FreeBSD server will just strip it off and I'm moving webservers today so I can't post it for a while. Beech -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Beech Rintoul - FreeBSD Developer - beech@FreeBSD.org /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | FreeBSD Since 4.x \ / - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail | http://www.freebsd.org X - NO Word docs in e-mail | Latest Release: / \ - http://www.FreeBSD.org/releases/7.0R/announce.html --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From neldredge at math.ucsd.edu Sat Jul 12 22:23:15 2008 From: neldredge at math.ucsd.edu (Nate Eldredge) Date: Sun Jul 13 00:49:12 2008 Subject: SCHED_4BSD bad interactivity on 7.0 vs 6.3 Message-ID: Hi folks, Hopefully this is a good list for this topic. It seems like there has been a regression in interactivity from 6.3-RELEASE to 7.0-RELEASE when using the SCHED_4BSD scheduler. After upgrading my single-cpu amd64 box, 7.0 has much worse latency. When running a kernel compile, there is a noticeable lag to echo my typing or scroll my browser windows, and playing an mp3 frequently cuts out for a second or two. This did not happen on 6.3-RELEASE. I wrote a small program which forks two processes that run gettimeofday() in a tight loop to see how long they get scheduled out. On 6.3 the maximum latency is usually under 100 ms. On 7.0 it is 500 ms or more even when nothing else is running on the system. When a compile is also running it is sometimes 1400 ms or more. SCHED_ULE is much better, so I've switched over. But it's not the default yet, and most people are still going to be using SCHED_4BSD. It used to be acceptable but now it isn't. Does anyone know why it's regressed so badly? -- Nate Eldredge neldredge@math.ucsd.edu From kris at FreeBSD.org Sun Jul 13 01:11:23 2008 From: kris at FreeBSD.org (Kris Kennaway) Date: Sun Jul 13 01:11:36 2008 Subject: SCHED_4BSD bad interactivity on 7.0 vs 6.3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4879563B.5090201@FreeBSD.org> Nate Eldredge wrote: > Hi folks, > > Hopefully this is a good list for this topic. > > It seems like there has been a regression in interactivity from > 6.3-RELEASE to 7.0-RELEASE when using the SCHED_4BSD scheduler. After > upgrading my single-cpu amd64 box, 7.0 has much worse latency. When > running a kernel compile, there is a noticeable lag to echo my typing or > scroll my browser windows, and playing an mp3 frequently cuts out for a > second or two. This did not happen on 6.3-RELEASE. Are you sure it's not the x.org server bug that was present in the version shipped with 7.0? Update to the latest version and see if your X interactivity improves. Kris > I wrote a small program which forks two processes that run > gettimeofday() in a tight loop to see how long they get scheduled out. > On 6.3 the maximum latency is usually under 100 ms. On 7.0 it is 500 ms > or more even when nothing else is running on the system. When a compile > is also running it is sometimes 1400 ms or more. > > SCHED_ULE is much better, so I've switched over. But it's not the > default yet, and most people are still going to be using SCHED_4BSD. It > used to be acceptable but now it isn't. Does anyone know why it's > regressed so badly? > From aggelidis.news at gmail.com Sun Jul 13 06:09:11 2008 From: aggelidis.news at gmail.com (Aggelidis Nikos) Date: Sun Jul 13 06:09:23 2008 Subject: weird restarts when compiling Message-ID: <30fc78250807122309r21ea625dn58c93ac7d1f3c345@mail.gmail.com> Hi to all the list, i 've been using FreeBSD for almost a month ,and i have this weird problem. Sometimes when i try to compile a program the computer will hard-reset itself, like someone pulled of the plug... For example yesterday i was trying to install jdk1.6 + eclipse, and while i was compiling eclipse {more precisely -if i remember correctly- the "diablo-jdk" needed for eclipse} the computer rebooted itself. The load of the computer was: 2-3xterms, 1 Konversation irc client ,several opera9.51 windows, 1-2 konqueror windows, and 1-2 Firefox widows. I have a dual core box with 2GB of memory and i use freebsd7 32bit. The computer was online for 8hours with almost the same load {minus the compilation-procedure}. * Has anyone had problems like this? * What can i do to investigate a bit more what was the situation before the restart? * Is there anyway to solve this problem. thanks for your help, nikos PS: i could blame the power company but the above problem has happened before{several times} when i tried to compile "big" programs like firefox or do a pkgdb -Fu, so i don't think it is this. From mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df at mired.org Sun Jul 13 06:51:24 2008 From: mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df at mired.org (Mike Meyer) Date: Sun Jul 13 06:51:31 2008 Subject: weird restarts when compiling In-Reply-To: <30fc78250807122309r21ea625dn58c93ac7d1f3c345@mail.gmail.com> References: <30fc78250807122309r21ea625dn58c93ac7d1f3c345@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080713025108.3839d97e@bhuda.mired.org> On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 09:09:09 +0300 "Aggelidis Nikos" wrote: > Hi to all the list, i 've been using FreeBSD for almost a month ,and i > have this weird problem. Sometimes when i try to compile a program the > computer will hard-reset itself, like someone pulled of the plug... > For example yesterday i was trying to install jdk1.6 + eclipse, and > while i was compiling eclipse {more precisely -if i remember > correctly- the "diablo-jdk" needed for eclipse} the computer rebooted > itself. > > The load of the computer was: 2-3xterms, 1 Konversation irc client > ,several opera9.51 windows, 1-2 konqueror windows, and 1-2 Firefox > widows. I have a dual core box with 2GB of memory and i use freebsd7 > 32bit. The computer was online for 8hours with almost the same load > {minus the compilation-procedure}. > > * Has anyone had problems like this? Yes. It's always turned out to be flaky hardware for me. > * What can i do to investigate a bit more what was the situation > before the restart? Look through /var/log/messages. > * Is there anyway to solve this problem. Well, you really can't "solve" it, so much as troubleshoot it. Make up a list of possible causes, and then start checking each possible cause. You haven't given any real information about the system or the problem, so we can't eliminate anything. My top suspects would be the PSU (old or inadequate) and CPU (overheating or overclocked). Memory and the I/O subsystem would be next, but they tend to cause random process failure rather than system shutdowns when they go flaky, so I'd try them last. http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From guru at unixarea.de Sun Jul 13 07:06:15 2008 From: guru at unixarea.de (Matthias Apitz) Date: Sun Jul 13 07:06:26 2008 Subject: merging into DVD+RW with growisofs && non aligned DMA transfer (7.0R) Message-ID: <20080713070312.GA3473@rebelion.Sisis.de> Hello, I wanted to add a file to an already written DVD+RW (written a day before on the same system) with # growisofs -M /dev/cd0 -r -T -J -joliet-long -v directory This produced tons of error messages via syslog as Jul 11 13:45:30 rebelion kernel: ata0: FAILURE - non aligned DMA transfer attempted Jul 11 13:45:30 rebelion kernel: acd0: setting up DMA failed and the only way to get the system back to a usable state was rebooting it; I've reloaded the files from the DVD to the file system, added the file I wanted get merged and wrote the DVD again with -Z which worked fine; this is with FreeBSD-7.0R; what is wrong with -M or what I've done wrong? thx matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/ ?...una sola vez, que es cuanto basta si se trata de verdades definitivas.? ?...only once, which is enough if it has todo with definite truth.? Jos? Saramago, Historia del Cerca de Lisboa From aggelidis.news at gmail.com Sun Jul 13 08:04:32 2008 From: aggelidis.news at gmail.com (Aggelidis Nikos) Date: Sun Jul 13 08:04:38 2008 Subject: weird restarts when compiling In-Reply-To: <20080713025108.3839d97e@bhuda.mired.org> References: <30fc78250807122309r21ea625dn58c93ac7d1f3c345@mail.gmail.com> <20080713025108.3839d97e@bhuda.mired.org> Message-ID: <30fc78250807130104p3d1447behc40cf71c4b817d4@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for your answers Manolis and Mike. In the beginning i didn't suspect hardware because it happened only at compilation procedures. Now i realize that every other task i do isn't really demanding. > Look through /var/log/messages. i get this: Jul 13 09:00:00 apollo newsyslog[1018]: logfile turned over due to size>100K * CPU overheating -> Is there anyway to check for cpu temperatures within freebsd? -> I 've used the pc for like 8 hours in a really hot day but it didn't restart...if this can be considered as an indication. *Memory -> i used memtest ,from an ubuntu live cd, to check the memory and everything works fine according to it. *PSU I have a 400Watt PSU... maybe this is inadequate. I will try to swap it for something stronger to see how it goes. In general where are there any stress tests i can do, to test the PSU and some major subsystems of the computer? thanks in advance, nikos PS: this was a ready-made pc that had it's p4 processor upgraded to a dual core. It also got a new motherboard and 2G of ddr2. It has an old nvidia GeForce fx 5200, and a 400watt nameless PSU. I only have freebsd,which i installed a month ago, on it. From asmodai at in-nomine.org Sun Jul 13 08:06:57 2008 From: asmodai at in-nomine.org (Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven) Date: Sun Jul 13 08:07:05 2008 Subject: weird restarts when compiling In-Reply-To: <30fc78250807130104p3d1447behc40cf71c4b817d4@mail.gmail.com> References: <30fc78250807122309r21ea625dn58c93ac7d1f3c345@mail.gmail.com> <20080713025108.3839d97e@bhuda.mired.org> <30fc78250807130104p3d1447behc40cf71c4b817d4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080713080654.GD27106@nexus.in-nomine.org> -On [20080713 10:04], Aggelidis Nikos (aggelidis.news@gmail.com) wrote: >> Look through /var/log/messages. >i get this: Jul 13 09:00:00 apollo newsyslog[1018]: logfile turned >over due to size>100K Then look at /var/log/messages.0.bz2 Also, check `last`. -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven / asmodai ????? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B There is time in life for everything... From neldredge at math.ucsd.edu Sun Jul 13 08:34:12 2008 From: neldredge at math.ucsd.edu (Nate Eldredge) Date: Sun Jul 13 08:34:19 2008 Subject: SCHED_4BSD bad interactivity on 7.0 vs 6.3 In-Reply-To: <4879563B.5090201@FreeBSD.org> References: <4879563B.5090201@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, Kris Kennaway wrote: > Nate Eldredge wrote: >> Hi folks, >> >> Hopefully this is a good list for this topic. >> >> It seems like there has been a regression in interactivity from 6.3-RELEASE >> to 7.0-RELEASE when using the SCHED_4BSD scheduler. After upgrading my >> single-cpu amd64 box, 7.0 has much worse latency. When running a kernel >> compile, there is a noticeable lag to echo my typing or scroll my browser >> windows, and playing an mp3 frequently cuts out for a second or two. This >> did not happen on 6.3-RELEASE. > > Are you sure it's not the x.org server bug that was present in the version > shipped with 7.0? Update to the latest version and see if your X > interactivity improves. Yes, I had not yet upgraded my x.org port when testing this, so it was the same x.org that was fine under 6.3. Also: >> I wrote a small program which forks two processes that run gettimeofday() >> in a tight loop to see how long they get scheduled out. On 6.3 the maximum >> latency is usually under 100 ms. On 7.0 it is 500 ms or more even when >> nothing else is running on the system. When a compile is also running it >> is sometimes 1400 ms or more. This test shows a difference even in single user mode, when X is not running at all. -- Nate Eldredge neldredge@math.ucsd.edu From stsp at stsp.name Sun Jul 13 09:26:04 2008 From: stsp at stsp.name (Stefan Sperling) Date: Sun Jul 13 09:26:11 2008 Subject: SCHED_4BSD bad interactivity on 7.0 vs 6.3 In-Reply-To: References: <4879563B.5090201@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <20080713085022.GB8139@ted.stsp.name> On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 01:34:11AM -0700, Nate Eldredge wrote: > On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > > Nate Eldredge wrote: > >> I wrote a small program which forks two processes that run gettimeofday() > >> in a tight loop to see how long they get scheduled out. On 6.3 the maximum > >> latency is usually under 100 ms. On 7.0 it is 500 ms or more even when > >> nothing else is running on the system. When a compile is also running it > >> is sometimes 1400 ms or more. > > This test shows a difference even in single user mode, when X is not > running at all. I was seeing similar problems (audio stutter during compiles, jerky mouse) after upgrading to 7.0. The box is an Athlon-XP 2400+ with 1GB of RAM. Since removing SMP support from the kernel and switching to ULE, interactivity has been acceptible again. I did not update the xserver at the time, and I can't recall if it has been updated since. Stefan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080713/dd1be5ab/attachment.pgp From kris at FreeBSD.org Sun Jul 13 10:09:52 2008 From: kris at FreeBSD.org (Kris Kennaway) Date: Sun Jul 13 10:09:59 2008 Subject: SCHED_4BSD bad interactivity on 7.0 vs 6.3 In-Reply-To: References: <4879563B.5090201@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <4879D46E.7080104@FreeBSD.org> Nate Eldredge wrote: > On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, Kris Kennaway wrote: > >> Nate Eldredge wrote: >>> Hi folks, >>> >>> Hopefully this is a good list for this topic. >>> >>> It seems like there has been a regression in interactivity from >>> 6.3-RELEASE to 7.0-RELEASE when using the SCHED_4BSD scheduler. >>> After upgrading my single-cpu amd64 box, 7.0 has much worse latency. >>> When running a kernel compile, there is a noticeable lag to echo my >>> typing or scroll my browser windows, and playing an mp3 frequently >>> cuts out for a second or two. This did not happen on 6.3-RELEASE. >> >> Are you sure it's not the x.org server bug that was present in the >> version shipped with 7.0? Update to the latest version and see if >> your X interactivity improves. > > Yes, I had not yet upgraded my x.org port when testing this, so it was > the same x.org that was fine under 6.3. Also: > >>> I wrote a small program which forks two processes that run >>> gettimeofday() in a tight loop to see how long they get scheduled >>> out. On 6.3 the maximum latency is usually under 100 ms. On 7.0 it >>> is 500 ms or more even when nothing else is running on the system. >>> When a compile is also running it is sometimes 1400 ms or more. > > This test shows a difference even in single user mode, when X is not > running at all. > It shows *a* difference, but perhaps not the *same* difference. Please humour me and rule it out. Kris From peterjeremy at optushome.com.au Sun Jul 13 10:55:59 2008 From: peterjeremy at optushome.com.au (Peter Jeremy) Date: Sun Jul 13 10:56:06 2008 Subject: profiling broken on RELENG_7/i386 In-Reply-To: <20080704121833.J35668@woozle.rinet.ru> References: <20080704121833.J35668@woozle.rinet.ru> Message-ID: <20080713105548.GA55221@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> On 2008-Jul-04 13:01:11 +0400, Dmitry Morozovsky wrote: >It seems we step on a bug in gcc in RELENG_7/i386 > >It is triggered at least by profiling program which uses getopt(3): I think it's actually in the profiling initialisation code. If you try to run sample code under gdb, you can see that .mcount() is not preserving %ecx, though main() assumes it does. (gdb) disas $eip Dump of assembler code for function main: 0x080481d0 : lea 0x4(%esp),%ecx 0x080481d4 : and $0xfffffff0,%esp 0x080481d7 : pushl 0xfffffffc(%ecx) 0x080481da : push %ebp 0x080481db : mov %esp,%ebp 0x080481dd : push %ecx 0x080481de : sub $0x14,%esp 0x080481e1 : call 0x8051b50 <.mcount> 0x080481e6 : mov 0x4(%ecx),%eax 0x080481e9 : mov (%eax),%eax 0x080481eb : mov %eax,0x8(%esp) 0x080481ef : mov (%ecx),%eax 0x080481f1 : mov %eax,0x4(%esp) 0x080481f5 : movl $0x8066b0a,(%esp) 0x080481fc : call 0x8051b00 0x08048201 : mov $0x0,%eax 0x08048206 : add $0x14,%esp 0x08048209 : pop %ecx 0x0804820a : pop %ebp 0x0804820b : lea 0xfffffffc(%ecx),%esp 0x0804820e : ret End of assembler dump. (gdb) x/10x $esp 0xbfbfeadc: 0x0804815f 0x00000001 0xbfbfeb08 0xbfbfeb10 0xbfbfeaec: 0x00000000 0x00000000 0x00000000 0x00000000 0xbfbfeafc: 0x00000000 0x00000000 (gdb) info regi eax 0xbfbfeb08 -1077941496 ecx 0x1e968 125288 edx 0x8051d1a 134552858 ebx 0x1 1 esp 0xbfbfeadc 0xbfbfeadc ebp 0xbfbfeb00 0xbfbfeb00 esi 0xbfbfeb10 -1077941488 edi 0x0 0 eip 0x80481d0 0x80481d0 eflags 0x282 642 cs 0x33 51 ss 0x3b 59 ds 0x3b 59 es 0x3b 59 fs 0x3b 59 gs 0x1b 27 ... [step through .mcount] ... (gdb) stepi main (argc=Error accessing memory address 0x1b: Bad address. ) at x.c:4 4 printf("Hello %d %s\n", argc, argv[0]); (gdb) info regi eax 0x1 1 ecx 0x1b 27 edx 0x804815f 134512991 ebx 0x1 1 esp 0xbfbfeab0 0xbfbfeab0 ebp 0xbfbfeac8 0xbfbfeac8 esi 0xbfbfeb10 -1077941488 edi 0x0 0 eip 0x80481e6 0x80481e6 eflags 0x246 582 cs 0x33 51 ss 0x3b 59 ds 0x3b 59 es 0x3b 59 fs 0x3b 59 gs 0x1b 27 -- Peter Jeremy Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080713/c9a940af/attachment.pgp From koitsu at FreeBSD.org Sun Jul 13 11:16:11 2008 From: koitsu at FreeBSD.org (Jeremy Chadwick) Date: Sun Jul 13 11:16:18 2008 Subject: weird restarts when compiling In-Reply-To: <30fc78250807130104p3d1447behc40cf71c4b817d4@mail.gmail.com> References: <30fc78250807122309r21ea625dn58c93ac7d1f3c345@mail.gmail.com> <20080713025108.3839d97e@bhuda.mired.org> <30fc78250807130104p3d1447behc40cf71c4b817d4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080713111611.GA83443@eos.sc1.parodius.com> On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 11:04:31AM +0300, Aggelidis Nikos wrote: > * CPU overheating > -> Is there anyway to check for cpu temperatures within freebsd? > -> I 've used the pc for like 8 hours in a really hot day but it > didn't restart...if this can be considered as an indication. Not easily. If coretemp(4) is loaded, you should have some sysctls named dev.cpu.X.temperature which contain the temperature of the core in Celcius. Otherwise, you can try utilities like mbmon and healthd, but those were written for old (circa 90s) hardware. Also, are you running powerd(8) on this machine? > *Memory > -> i used memtest ,from an ubuntu live cd, to check the memory and > everything works fine according to it. That's a good start; your memory is probably not the issue then. > *PSU > I have a 400Watt PSU... maybe this is inadequate. I will try to swap > it for something stronger to see how it goes. Wattage is not the only thing that matters with a PSU. Voltages are significantly more important, if you ask me. I'd make a list of what your voltages are (go into the BIOS and see) and provide them here. There may be one which is significantly off, indicating a bad PSU. > In general where are there any stress tests i can do, to test the PSU > and some major subsystems of the computer? Windows offers many free utilities that do this; I'm not sure about FreeBSD. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From eugen at kuzbass.ru Sun Jul 13 07:47:34 2008 From: eugen at kuzbass.ru (Eugene Grosbein) Date: Sun Jul 13 13:35:33 2008 Subject: SCHED_4BSD bad interactivity on 7.0 vs 6.3 In-Reply-To: <4879563B.5090201@FreeBSD.org> References: <4879563B.5090201@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <20080713074730.GA93887@svzserv.kemerovo.su> On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 03:11:23AM +0200, Kris Kennaway wrote: > >It seems like there has been a regression in interactivity from > >6.3-RELEASE to 7.0-RELEASE when using the SCHED_4BSD scheduler. After > >upgrading my single-cpu amd64 box, 7.0 has much worse latency. When > >running a kernel compile, there is a noticeable lag to echo my typing or > >scroll my browser windows, and playing an mp3 frequently cuts out for a > >second or two. This did not happen on 6.3-RELEASE. > > Are you sure it's not the x.org server bug that was present in the > version shipped with 7.0? No, it's not. I have exactly the same problem with SCHED_4BSD after upgrade from 6.3-STABLE to 7.0-STABLE. I didn't upgrade my x.org 6.9.0, only OS (all 6.x compat shims are installed). There is some sort of regression, certainly. Eugene Grosbein From marck at rinet.ru Sun Jul 13 14:01:14 2008 From: marck at rinet.ru (Dmitry Morozovsky) Date: Sun Jul 13 14:01:21 2008 Subject: profiling broken on RELENG_7/i386 In-Reply-To: <20080713105548.GA55221@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <20080704121833.J35668@woozle.rinet.ru> <20080713105548.GA55221@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20080713175927.R58331@woozle.rinet.ru> On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, Peter Jeremy wrote: PJ> On 2008-Jul-04 13:01:11 +0400, Dmitry Morozovsky wrote: PJ> >It seems we step on a bug in gcc in RELENG_7/i386 PJ> > PJ> >It is triggered at least by profiling program which uses getopt(3): PJ> PJ> I think it's actually in the profiling initialisation code. If PJ> you try to run sample code under gdb, you can see that .mcount() PJ> is not preserving %ecx, though main() assumes it does. I see. However, I'm afraid we need knowledge of some gcc guru to bring the fix in. Alexander, could you please comment? PJ> PJ> (gdb) disas $eip PJ> Dump of assembler code for function main: PJ> 0x080481d0 : lea 0x4(%esp),%ecx PJ> 0x080481d4 : and $0xfffffff0,%esp PJ> 0x080481d7 : pushl 0xfffffffc(%ecx) PJ> 0x080481da : push %ebp PJ> 0x080481db : mov %esp,%ebp PJ> 0x080481dd : push %ecx PJ> 0x080481de : sub $0x14,%esp PJ> 0x080481e1 : call 0x8051b50 <.mcount> PJ> 0x080481e6 : mov 0x4(%ecx),%eax PJ> 0x080481e9 : mov (%eax),%eax PJ> 0x080481eb : mov %eax,0x8(%esp) PJ> 0x080481ef : mov (%ecx),%eax PJ> 0x080481f1 : mov %eax,0x4(%esp) PJ> 0x080481f5 : movl $0x8066b0a,(%esp) PJ> 0x080481fc : call 0x8051b00 PJ> 0x08048201 : mov $0x0,%eax PJ> 0x08048206 : add $0x14,%esp PJ> 0x08048209 : pop %ecx PJ> 0x0804820a : pop %ebp PJ> 0x0804820b : lea 0xfffffffc(%ecx),%esp PJ> 0x0804820e : ret PJ> End of assembler dump. PJ> (gdb) x/10x $esp PJ> 0xbfbfeadc: 0x0804815f 0x00000001 0xbfbfeb08 0xbfbfeb10 PJ> 0xbfbfeaec: 0x00000000 0x00000000 0x00000000 0x00000000 PJ> 0xbfbfeafc: 0x00000000 0x00000000 PJ> (gdb) info regi PJ> eax 0xbfbfeb08 -1077941496 PJ> ecx 0x1e968 125288 PJ> edx 0x8051d1a 134552858 PJ> ebx 0x1 1 PJ> esp 0xbfbfeadc 0xbfbfeadc PJ> ebp 0xbfbfeb00 0xbfbfeb00 PJ> esi 0xbfbfeb10 -1077941488 PJ> edi 0x0 0 PJ> eip 0x80481d0 0x80481d0 PJ> eflags 0x282 642 PJ> cs 0x33 51 PJ> ss 0x3b 59 PJ> ds 0x3b 59 PJ> es 0x3b 59 PJ> fs 0x3b 59 PJ> gs 0x1b 27 PJ> ... PJ> [step through .mcount] PJ> ... PJ> (gdb) stepi PJ> main (argc=Error accessing memory address 0x1b: Bad address. PJ> ) at x.c:4 PJ> 4 printf("Hello %d %s\n", argc, argv[0]); PJ> (gdb) info regi PJ> eax 0x1 1 PJ> ecx 0x1b 27 PJ> edx 0x804815f 134512991 PJ> ebx 0x1 1 PJ> esp 0xbfbfeab0 0xbfbfeab0 PJ> ebp 0xbfbfeac8 0xbfbfeac8 PJ> esi 0xbfbfeb10 -1077941488 PJ> edi 0x0 0 PJ> eip 0x80481e6 0x80481e6 PJ> eflags 0x246 582 PJ> cs 0x33 51 PJ> ss 0x3b 59 PJ> ds 0x3b 59 PJ> es 0x3b 59 PJ> fs 0x3b 59 PJ> gs 0x1b 27 PJ> PJ> -- PJ> Peter Jeremy PJ> Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement PJ> an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour. PJ> Sincerely, D.Marck [DM5020, MCK-RIPE, DM3-RIPN] [ FreeBSD committer: marck@FreeBSD.org ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** Dmitry Morozovsky --- D.Marck --- Wild Woozle --- marck@rinet.ru *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bruce at cran.org.uk Sun Jul 13 14:32:49 2008 From: bruce at cran.org.uk (Bruce Cran) Date: Sun Jul 13 14:32:56 2008 Subject: profiling broken on RELENG_7/i386 In-Reply-To: <20080713175927.R58331@woozle.rinet.ru> References: <20080704121833.J35668@woozle.rinet.ru> <20080713105548.GA55221@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <20080713175927.R58331@woozle.rinet.ru> Message-ID: <20080713153235.73eb34fd@tau> On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 18:01:12 +0400 (MSD) Dmitry Morozovsky wrote: > On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, Peter Jeremy wrote: > > PJ> On 2008-Jul-04 13:01:11 +0400, Dmitry Morozovsky > PJ> wrote: > PJ> >It seems we step on a bug in gcc in RELENG_7/i386 > PJ> > > PJ> >It is triggered at least by profiling program which uses > PJ> >getopt(3): > PJ> > PJ> I think it's actually in the profiling initialisation code. If > PJ> you try to run sample code under gdb, you can see that .mcount() > PJ> is not preserving %ecx, though main() assumes it does. > > I see. However, I'm afraid we need knowledge of some gcc guru to > bring the fix in. > This is a known bug in 7.x and has apparently been fixed in -CURRENT. See http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=bin/119709 for more details. -- Bruce Cran -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080713/fddb19d7/signature.pgp From ioplex at gmail.com Sun Jul 13 15:13:16 2008 From: ioplex at gmail.com (Michael B Allen) Date: Sun Jul 13 15:13:22 2008 Subject: Pls sanity check my semtimedop(2) implementation Message-ID: <78c6bd860807130813p4c28f930g1f3094241aa1f1b1@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Below is a semtimedop(2) implementation that I'm using for FreeBSD. I was hoping someone could look it over and tell me if they think the implementation is sound. The code seems to work ok but when stressing the FreeBSD build of my app I have managed to provoke errors related to concurrency (usually when a SIGALRM goes off). The Linux build works flawlessesly so I'm wondering about this one critical function that is different. Is there any reason why I would want to use ITIMER_VIRTUAL / SIGVTALRM instead of ITIMER_REAL / SIGALRM? Or perhaps I should be using a different implementation entirely? Mike int _semtimedop(int semid, struct sembuf *array, size_t nops, struct timespec *_timeout) { struct timeval timeout, before, after; struct itimerval value, ovalue; struct sigaction sa, osa; int ret; if (_timeout) { timeout.tv_sec = _timeout->tv_sec; timeout.tv_usec = _timeout->tv_nsec / 1000; if (gettimeofday(&before, NULL) == -1) { return -1; } memset(&value, 0, sizeof value); value.it_value = timeout; memset(&sa, 0, sizeof sa); /* signal_print writes the signal info to a log file */ sa.sa_sigaction = signal_print; sa.sa_flags = SA_SIGINFO; sigemptyset(&sa.sa_mask); sigaction(SIGALRM, &sa, &osa); if (setitimer(ITIMER_REAL, &value, &ovalue) == -1) { sigaction(SIGALRM, &osa, NULL); return -1; } } ret = semop(semid, array, nops); if (_timeout) { sigaction(SIGALRM, &osa, NULL); if (setitimer(ITIMER_REAL, &ovalue, NULL) == -1) { return -1; } } if (ret == -1) { if (_timeout) { struct timeval elapsed; if (gettimeofday(&after, NULL) == -1) { return -1; } _timeval_diff(&after, &before, &elapsed); if (timercmp(&elapsed, &timeout, >=)) errno = EAGAIN; } return -1; } return 0; } From marck at rinet.ru Sun Jul 13 15:23:36 2008 From: marck at rinet.ru (Dmitry Morozovsky) Date: Sun Jul 13 15:23:44 2008 Subject: profiling broken on RELENG_7/i386 In-Reply-To: <20080713153235.73eb34fd@tau> References: <20080704121833.J35668@woozle.rinet.ru> <20080713105548.GA55221@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <20080713175927.R58331@woozle.rinet.ru> <20080713153235.73eb34fd@tau> Message-ID: <20080713191804.F58331@woozle.rinet.ru> On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, Bruce Cran wrote: BC> > PJ> On 2008-Jul-04 13:01:11 +0400, Dmitry Morozovsky BC> > PJ> wrote: BC> > PJ> >It seems we step on a bug in gcc in RELENG_7/i386 BC> > PJ> > BC> > PJ> >It is triggered at least by profiling program which uses BC> > PJ> >getopt(3): BC> > PJ> BC> > PJ> I think it's actually in the profiling initialisation code. If BC> > PJ> you try to run sample code under gdb, you can see that .mcount() BC> > PJ> is not preserving %ecx, though main() assumes it does. BC> > BC> > I see. However, I'm afraid we need knowledge of some gcc guru to BC> > bring the fix in. BC> > BC> BC> This is a known bug in 7.x and has apparently been fixed in -CURRENT. BC> See http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=bin/119709 for more BC> details. It seems it is not, at least on cluster reference -CURRENT i386 machine: Thu Jul 3 21:52:15 UTC 2008 marck@ref8-i386:~/tmp/gprof> ./test Segmentation fault (core dumped) Profiling program does not always dump core, but .mcount definitely clobbers one of the registers: marck@ref8-i386:~/tmp/gprof> cat test-x.c #include int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { printf("Hello, world!\n"); printf("argc=%d, argv=%p\n", argc, argv); return (0); } w/o -pg: marck@ref8-i386:~/tmp/gprof> ./test Hello, world! argc=1, argv=0xbf7febf8 with -pg: marck@ref8-i386:~/tmp/gprof> ./test Hello, world! argc=0, argv=0x0 Sincerely, D.Marck [DM5020, MCK-RIPE, DM3-RIPN] [ FreeBSD committer: marck@FreeBSD.org ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** Dmitry Morozovsky --- D.Marck --- Wild Woozle --- marck@rinet.ru *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jhs at berklix.org Sun Jul 13 16:36:21 2008 From: jhs at berklix.org (Julian Stacey) Date: Sun Jul 13 16:36:41 2008 Subject: GPG encryption of binary sample requested. In-Reply-To: Your message "Fri, 11 Jul 2008 18:08:53 +0200." Message-ID: <200807131636.m6DGZx73050160@fire.js.berklix.net> "Julian Stacey" wrote: > Summary: A problem in zlib is confirmed here (for mail gpg decryption), > do others see this too or have comment please ? It turns out /usr/ports/mail/popd is corrupting data from both my servers running FreeBSD-6.2 & FreeBSD-6.3, (3rd server with 7.0 back soon to test). Detail: zlib was reacting to corrupt data. I did some loop tests & grabbing data half way with sftp & found: - Data out goes OK with SMTP+Auth to servers, - Data served back via POP3 is corrupted from my remote FreeBSD popd servers ( /usr/ports/mail/popd popd-2.2.2a_4, on both FreeBSD-6.2, 6.3, (My FreeBSD-7.0 server off line, not tested), - My local fetchmail on my dynamic IP gate running FreeBSD-6.2, & my internal host send out & recieve back fine using an alternate POP3 - No problem with large base64 bins, only when I receive encrypted. I'll have to install some other POP3 (or IMAP) server, Big choice: cd /usr/ports/mail; echo *pop* akpop3d cucipop freepops mdpop3d nullpop p5-vpopmail pecl-pop3 pop-before-smtp pop3gwd pop3lite pop3proxy pop3vscan popa3d popa3d-before-sendmail popcheck popclient popd popfile poppassd popper poppwd poppy popular qpopper solidpop3d teapop teapop-devel tpop3d vm-pop3d vpopmail vpopmail-devel wmmultipop3 wmpop3 wmpop3lb PS test accounts are handy to have for debugging when things break, so if 1 or 2 people fancy offering me a POP3 account, I'd happily reciprocate. PPS Earlier I tried /usr/ports/mail/getmail, It fetches 1M of uuencoded random data, but fails on 10M with: operation error (child pid 56001 killed by signal 9) Julian -- Julian Stacey: BSDUnixLinux C Prog Admin SysEng Consult Munich www.berklix.com Mail plain ASCII text. HTML & Base64 text are spam. www.asciiribbon.org From modelnine at modelnine.org Sun Jul 13 16:56:26 2008 From: modelnine at modelnine.org (Heiko Wundram) Date: Sun Jul 13 16:56:32 2008 Subject: GPG encryption of binary sample requested. In-Reply-To: <200807131636.m6DGZx73050160@fire.js.berklix.net> References: <200807131636.m6DGZx73050160@fire.js.berklix.net> Message-ID: <200807131844.37339.modelnine@modelnine.org> Am Sonntag, 13. Juli 2008 18:35:59 schrieb Julian Stacey: > I'll have to install some other POP3 (or IMAP) server, Big choice: > cd /usr/ports/mail; echo *pop* > akpop3d cucipop freepops mdpop3d nullpop p5-vpopmail pecl-pop3 > pop-before-smtp pop3gwd pop3lite pop3proxy pop3vscan popa3d > popa3d-before-sendmail popcheck popclient popd popfile poppassd > popper poppwd poppy popular qpopper solidpop3d teapop teapop-devel > tpop3d vm-pop3d vpopmail vpopmail-devel wmmultipop3 wmpop3 wmpop3lb I'm personally very happy with courier-imap (which is both a POP and IMAP implementation). courier requires you to keep your mail-spools in maildir format, though (which I favor anyway over mbox, but YMMV). Depending on the MTA/MDA you use, it should be easy to adapt it to store mails to maildirs. For Postfix, maildir support is builtin, for sendmail, you can use procmail to do the delivery, which also sports maildir support. -- Heiko Wundram From brucem at mail.cruzio.com Sun Jul 13 18:20:58 2008 From: brucem at mail.cruzio.com (Bruce R. Montague) Date: Sun Jul 13 18:21:05 2008 Subject: Hardware support for AMD Geode CS5536 audio? Message-ID: <200807131814.m6DIESh7000463@mail.cruzio.com> Hi, re: > > Bruce, > > This is Andrew Gray. I am running an Alix-1C board with the CS5536 on it. > This board is very nice. It's only about $138 and it has a good "standard" > clone AWARD bios that we are all used to (unlike say, the Soekris boards). > It uses only 5 watts and has everthing including 21 GPIO pins. > (except is doesn't have a Freebsd sound driver yet. > <---snip---> > > http://www.mini-box.com/Alix-1C-Board-1-LAN-1-MINI-PCI?sc=8&category=754 Looks like a nice board, close to the reference platform, and has exposed audio (unlike some of the Geode-based embedded systems). Looks like a decent CS5536 audio development platform. Its use of the CS5536 is not apparent from a casual skim of the web-page, thanks, I would not have known about it if not for your mail. > > A question for you? Do Freebsd 4.6 drivers still work on freebsd 6.2 and 7.0? Not sure, I haven't had relevant Geode hardware up for awhile... I'd be rather surprised if even for the CS5530 something hadn't changed or needed tweaking, but I don't know. > > Are you working on this CS5536 driver? Do you have hardware yet? > I don't have hardware, but I've just ordered an Alix-1C. :) I haven't been working on this. I had googled for a few days without finding anything that looked like a convenient dev platform (mostly closed embedded systems). I also came across info at AMD's site that implied the CS5536 had been end-of-lifed and that made me a bit depressed. Does anyone know, BTW, if this is the case? When I get this Alix-1C I will try to get something up. But it will definitely just be in "all-too-infrequent spare-time cycles between real-life and dayjob", so we're talking weekend-and-late-night-hobby here. If anyone such as yourself want to hack away on it, that would be great too. I'll try to stay in touch. Thanks, -bruce From beech at freebsd.org Sun Jul 13 18:41:01 2008 From: beech at freebsd.org (Beech Rintoul) Date: Sun Jul 13 18:41:08 2008 Subject: Help with copytree code In-Reply-To: <200807121626.58487.beech@freebsd.org> References: <200805182328.45822.beech@freebsd.org> <20080713023852.a0977807.stas@FreeBSD.org> <200807121626.58487.beech@freebsd.org> Message-ID: <200807131040.55910.beech@freebsd.org> On Saturday 12 July 2008, Beech Rintoul said: > On Saturday 12 July 2008, Stanislav Sedov said: > > On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 13:26:21 -0800 > > > > Beech Rintoul mentioned: > > > I'd just like to thank stas@ and everyone who replied with > > > suggestions, code etc. I believe that I now have something > > > workable and it's been submitted to portmgr for review and > > > possible inclusion in bsd.port.mk along with some new features > > > of my own. Hopefully, this will fix a long standing problem > > > with copytree_*. > > > > Have you filled the PR so we could review/comment? > > No, portmgr (Pav) has it and is reviewing. I'll chat with him and > see if he wants me to file a pr. Meanwhile I'll be happy to send it > to anyone who wants it. The FreeBSD server will just strip it off > and I'm moving webservers today so I can't post it for a while. > > Beech OK, if anyone wishes to test this code I posted it here: http://www.alaskaparadise.com/freebsd/copytree.diff Comments or suggestions are welcome :-) Beech -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Beech Rintoul - FreeBSD Developer - beech@FreeBSD.org /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | FreeBSD Since 4.x \ / - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail | http://www.freebsd.org X - NO Word docs in e-mail | Latest Release: / \ - http://www.FreeBSD.org/releases/7.0R/announce.html --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From joseph.koshy at gmail.com Sun Jul 13 19:05:16 2008 From: joseph.koshy at gmail.com (Joseph Koshy) Date: Sun Jul 13 19:05:22 2008 Subject: Announcement: PmcTools callchain capture for RELENG_7 Message-ID: <84dead720807122205i33bf6eb0p998d473df9e52304@mail.gmail.com> Hello List(s), I am very pleased to announce a patch, by Fabien Thomas, that brings PmcTools' callchain capture features to 7-STABLE. Thank you, Fabien! The patch is linked to from the PmcTools wiki page: http://wiki.freebsd.org/PmcTools. The current file name is: "patch-callchain-FreeBSD-7-STABLE-2008-07-12.gz". As the file name indicates, it should apply against a 7-STABLE tree of 2008-07-12 vintage. To apply the patch: % cd /home/src-7x # or whereever your RELENG_7 tree resides % patch < PATCH-FILE Then you should follow the full procedure to update userland and kernel from source as spelled out in src/UPDATING. Please note that HWPMC(4) log files that contain callchain information are not binary compatible with prior versions of pmc(3) and pmcstat(8). Please do test on your systems and let Fabien and me know how you fared. Koshy From neldredge at math.ucsd.edu Sun Jul 13 19:38:24 2008 From: neldredge at math.ucsd.edu (Nate Eldredge) Date: Sun Jul 13 19:38:32 2008 Subject: SCHED_4BSD bad interactivity on 7.0 vs 6.3 In-Reply-To: <4879D46E.7080104@FreeBSD.org> References: <4879563B.5090201@FreeBSD.org> <4879D46E.7080104@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, Kris Kennaway wrote: > Nate Eldredge wrote: >> On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, Kris Kennaway wrote: >> >>> Nate Eldredge wrote: >>>> Hi folks, >>>> >>>> Hopefully this is a good list for this topic. >>>> >>>> It seems like there has been a regression in interactivity from >>>> 6.3-RELEASE to 7.0-RELEASE when using the SCHED_4BSD scheduler. After >>>> upgrading my single-cpu amd64 box, 7.0 has much worse latency. When >>>> running a kernel compile, there is a noticeable lag to echo my typing or >>>> scroll my browser windows, and playing an mp3 frequently cuts out for a >>>> second or two. This did not happen on 6.3-RELEASE. >>> >>> Are you sure it's not the x.org server bug that was present in the version >>> shipped with 7.0? Update to the latest version and see if your X >>> interactivity improves. >> >> Yes, I had not yet upgraded my x.org port when testing this, so it was the >> same x.org that was fine under 6.3. Also: >> >>>> I wrote a small program which forks two processes that run gettimeofday() >>>> in a tight loop to see how long they get scheduled out. On 6.3 the >>>> maximum latency is usually under 100 ms. On 7.0 it is 500 ms or more >>>> even when nothing else is running on the system. When a compile is also >>>> running it is sometimes 1400 ms or more. >> >> This test shows a difference even in single user mode, when X is not >> running at all. >> > > It shows *a* difference, but perhaps not the *same* difference. Please > humour me and rule it out. Okay. I am in the process of recompiling all my ports, so after that is done I will boot with a GENERIC kernel and see what happens. -- Nate Eldredge neldredge@math.ucsd.edu From mbsd at pacbell.net Sun Jul 13 20:08:22 2008 From: mbsd at pacbell.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mikko_Ty=F6l=E4j=E4rvi?=) Date: Sun Jul 13 20:08:29 2008 Subject: Pls sanity check my semtimedop(2) implementation In-Reply-To: <78c6bd860807130813p4c28f930g1f3094241aa1f1b1@mail.gmail.com> References: <78c6bd860807130813p4c28f930g1f3094241aa1f1b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, Michael B Allen wrote: > Hi, > > Below is a semtimedop(2) implementation that I'm using for FreeBSD. I > was hoping someone could look it over and tell me if they think the > implementation is sound. > > The code seems to work ok but when stressing the FreeBSD build of my app > I have managed to provoke errors related to concurrency (usually when a > SIGALRM goes off). The Linux build works flawlessesly so I'm wondering > about this one critical function that is different. At the very least you need to check errno when semop() returns -1. Unless it is EINTR, you have other problems. Also, if there is any other code using the timer across this function call, you have race conditions between changing the signal handler and setting the timer. Even if there is no other use of the timer across this function, resetting the signal handler before disarming the timer leaves you open to the signal being handled by the default handler which will make the process exit. $.02, /Mikko > Is there any reason why I would want to use ITIMER_VIRTUAL / > SIGVTALRM instead of ITIMER_REAL / SIGALRM? > > Or perhaps I should be using a different implementation entirely? > > Mike > > int > _semtimedop(int semid, > struct sembuf *array, > size_t nops, > struct timespec *_timeout) > { > struct timeval timeout, before, after; > struct itimerval value, ovalue; > struct sigaction sa, osa; > int ret; > > if (_timeout) { > timeout.tv_sec = _timeout->tv_sec; > timeout.tv_usec = _timeout->tv_nsec / 1000; > > if (gettimeofday(&before, NULL) == -1) { > return -1; > } > > memset(&value, 0, sizeof value); > value.it_value = timeout; > > memset(&sa, 0, sizeof sa); > /* signal_print writes the signal info to a log file > */ > sa.sa_sigaction = signal_print; > sa.sa_flags = SA_SIGINFO; > sigemptyset(&sa.sa_mask); > sigaction(SIGALRM, &sa, &osa); > > if (setitimer(ITIMER_REAL, &value, &ovalue) == -1) { > sigaction(SIGALRM, &osa, NULL); > return -1; > } > } > > ret = semop(semid, array, nops); > > if (_timeout) { > sigaction(SIGALRM, &osa, NULL); > > if (setitimer(ITIMER_REAL, &ovalue, NULL) == -1) { > return -1; > } > } > > if (ret == -1) { > if (_timeout) { > struct timeval elapsed; > > if (gettimeofday(&after, NULL) == -1) { > return -1; > } > > _timeval_diff(&after, &before, &elapsed); > > if (timercmp(&elapsed, &timeout, >=)) > errno = EAGAIN; > } > > return -1; > } > > return 0; > } > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From ioplex at gmail.com Sun Jul 13 21:09:24 2008 From: ioplex at gmail.com (Michael B Allen) Date: Sun Jul 13 21:09:31 2008 Subject: Pls sanity check my semtimedop(2) implementation In-Reply-To: References: <78c6bd860807130813p4c28f930g1f3094241aa1f1b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <78c6bd860807131409v6e34478ameda1390b9eb2333f@mail.gmail.com> On 7/13/08, Mikko Ty?l?j?rvi wrote: > On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, Michael B Allen wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Below is a semtimedop(2) implementation that I'm using for FreeBSD. I > > was hoping someone could look it over and tell me if they think the > > implementation is sound. > > > > The code seems to work ok but when stressing the FreeBSD build of my app > > I have managed to provoke errors related to concurrency (usually when a > > SIGALRM goes off). The Linux build works flawlessesly so I'm wondering > > about this one critical function that is different. > > > > At the very least you need to check errno when semop() returns -1. > Unless it is EINTR, you have other problems. > > Also, if there is any other code using the timer across this function > call, you have race conditions between changing the signal handler and > setting the timer. Even if there is no other use of the timer across > this function, resetting the signal handler before disarming the timer > leaves you open to the signal being handled by the default handler > which will make the process exit. Hi Mikko, So if some other code uses setitimer(2) for whatever reason, then I have the potential for a race. I'm not aware of any other such instances of setitimer but my app is actually a plugin for a larger application so I can't entirely rule out the possibility. Is there any facility for creating a stateful timer so that I don't run into this problem? Can anyone provide the basis for an alternative implementation? Should I use select(2) instead? Mike > > Is there any reason why I would want to use ITIMER_VIRTUAL / > > SIGVTALRM instead of ITIMER_REAL / SIGALRM? > > > > Or perhaps I should be using a different implementation entirely? > > > > Mike > > > > int > > _semtimedop(int semid, > > struct sembuf *array, > > size_t nops, > > struct timespec *_timeout) > > { > > struct timeval timeout, before, after; > > struct itimerval value, ovalue; > > struct sigaction sa, osa; > > int ret; > > > > if (_timeout) { > > timeout.tv_sec = _timeout->tv_sec; > > timeout.tv_usec = _timeout->tv_nsec / 1000; > > > > if (gettimeofday(&before, NULL) == -1) { > > return -1; > > } > > > > memset(&value, 0, sizeof value); > > value.it_value = timeout; > > > > memset(&sa, 0, sizeof sa); > > /* signal_print writes the signal info to a log file > > */ > > sa.sa_sigaction = signal_print; > > sa.sa_flags = SA_SIGINFO; > > sigemptyset(&sa.sa_mask); > > sigaction(SIGALRM, &sa, &osa); > > > > if (setitimer(ITIMER_REAL, &value, &ovalue) == -1) { > > sigaction(SIGALRM, &osa, NULL); > > return -1; > > } > > } > > > > ret = semop(semid, array, nops); > > > > if (_timeout) { > > sigaction(SIGALRM, &osa, NULL); > > > > if (setitimer(ITIMER_REAL, &ovalue, NULL) == -1) { > > return -1; > > } > > } > > > > if (ret == -1) { > > if (_timeout) { > > struct timeval elapsed; > > > > if (gettimeofday(&after, NULL) == -1) { > > return -1; > > } > > > > _timeval_diff(&after, &before, &elapsed); > > > > if (timercmp(&elapsed, &timeout, >=)) > > errno = EAGAIN; > > } > > > > return -1; > > } > > > > return 0; > > } From yanefbsd at gmail.com Sun Jul 13 23:11:24 2008 From: yanefbsd at gmail.com (Garrett Cooper) Date: Sun Jul 13 23:11:31 2008 Subject: SCHED_4BSD bad interactivity on 7.0 vs 6.3 In-Reply-To: <20080713074730.GA93887@svzserv.kemerovo.su> References: <4879563B.5090201@FreeBSD.org> <20080713074730.GA93887@svzserv.kemerovo.su> Message-ID: <7d6fde3d0807131230m598cf198ia1deded3afa1ac0c@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 12:47 AM, Eugene Grosbein wrote: > On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 03:11:23AM +0200, Kris Kennaway wrote: > >> >It seems like there has been a regression in interactivity from >> >6.3-RELEASE to 7.0-RELEASE when using the SCHED_4BSD scheduler. After >> >upgrading my single-cpu amd64 box, 7.0 has much worse latency. When >> >running a kernel compile, there is a noticeable lag to echo my typing or >> >scroll my browser windows, and playing an mp3 frequently cuts out for a >> >second or two. This did not happen on 6.3-RELEASE. >> >> Are you sure it's not the x.org server bug that was present in the >> version shipped with 7.0? > > No, it's not. I have exactly the same problem with SCHED_4BSD > after upgrade from 6.3-STABLE to 7.0-STABLE. I didn't upgrade > my x.org 6.9.0, only OS (all 6.x compat shims are installed). > There is some sort of regression, certainly. IIRC some folks reported performance degradation using SCHED_4BSD in the past after the SMP fixes, so this isn't a new news story. SCHED_ULE isn't going to be default until 7.1-RELEASE I believe because they might be fanning out a few bugs in -CURRENT (the number of bugs are small from what I've seen) and MFC'ing them to 7-RELEASE. -Garrett From kmf at fischer.org.za Mon Jul 14 11:33:19 2008 From: kmf at fischer.org.za (Karl Fischer) Date: Mon Jul 14 11:33:26 2008 Subject: FreeBSD Best Practice Message-ID: Hello I'm a SysAdmin, I'm wondering whether this is the correct list to ask? I'm looking for FreeBSD Best Practice information, (or a FreeBSD Mailing List, I can join) I want to make sure that all my servers comply to at least some widely accepted standards, so in the event of me getting hit by a bus or being abducted by aliens, another person can take over from me. I have done a search through the mailing lists and this seems like the list to ask. Thanks Karl -- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Fischer |_|0|_| "Absence of evidence |_|_|0| is not evidence of absence" |0|0|0| Carl Sagan - http://fischer.org.za - -------------------------------------------------- From stefan.lambrev at moneybookers.com Mon Jul 14 11:57:48 2008 From: stefan.lambrev at moneybookers.com (Stefan Lambrev) Date: Mon Jul 14 11:58:10 2008 Subject: Announcement: PmcTools callchain capture for RELENG_7 In-Reply-To: <84dead720807122205i33bf6eb0p998d473df9e52304@mail.gmail.com> References: <84dead720807122205i33bf6eb0p998d473df9e52304@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <487B3F37.7000300@moneybookers.com> Hi, Does it mean that hwpmc from now will work "out of the box" with new Intel core2 duo/quad processors (like T7500) ? Joseph Koshy wrote: > Hello List(s), > > I am very pleased to announce a patch, by Fabien Thomas, that brings > PmcTools' callchain capture features to 7-STABLE. Thank you, Fabien! > > The patch is linked to from the PmcTools wiki page: > http://wiki.freebsd.org/PmcTools. > > The current file name is: "patch-callchain-FreeBSD-7-STABLE-2008-07-12.gz". > As the file name indicates, it should apply against a 7-STABLE tree of > 2008-07-12 > vintage. > > To apply the patch: > % cd /home/src-7x # or whereever your RELENG_7 tree resides > % patch < PATCH-FILE > > Then you should follow the full procedure to update userland > and kernel from source as spelled out in src/UPDATING. > > Please note that HWPMC(4) log files that contain callchain information are > not binary compatible with prior versions of pmc(3) and pmcstat(8). > > Please do test on your systems and let Fabien and me know > how you fared. > > Koshy > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Best Wishes, Stefan Lambrev ICQ# 24134177 From Alexander at Leidinger.net Mon Jul 14 09:15:34 2008 From: Alexander at Leidinger.net (Alexander Leidinger) Date: Mon Jul 14 12:00:17 2008 Subject: Kernel API docs ('make doxygen') In-Reply-To: <200807111517.54399.fbsd.hackers@rachie.is-a-geek.net> References: <200807111517.54399.fbsd.hackers@rachie.is-a-geek.net> Message-ID: <20080714111514.3394138okvgiq42o@webmail.leidinger.net> Quoting Mel (from Fri, 11 Jul 2008 15:17:54 +0200): > I was wondering if this project is considered obsolete, finished or work in > progress. I would say it's in the "it has to prove it's usefulness"-stage. This means not all people are convinced it is useful to have such stuff in our source and someone needs to sit down and do something good to a subsystem to show that it is useful to those people. > If it's the latter, I'm happy to do the legwork, like set up proper stubs for > each function and structure that people who really know how they work can I think some people would complain if this would be committed to our version control system without consent, and without those stubs being there I don't expect that the stubs get converted to proper docs. So giving advice to just go ahead may be a waste. > adjust. There's a lot already in there with normal comments, that can become > documentation by simply adding an extra asterisk. Decide for yourself if you are willing to invest your time to convert the existing docs in the source into doxygen docs. In src/tools/kerneldoc/subsys/ is already a framework to handle the doxygen stuff per subsystem (not all subsystems are done there). It would be most beneficial to start with one of the subsystems which are already available there. In case you want to play around there, send me a mail and I try to get some time to commit some fixes. In case you are interested to work on a subsystem which is not represented there, you can email me too (but it should be easy to copy&modify an existing file). But again, no guarantees that any changes to the source get's committed. Bye, Alexander. -- Beware of a tall black man with one blond shoe. http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 From fluxboxtremist at gmail.com Mon Jul 14 12:58:49 2008 From: fluxboxtremist at gmail.com (Andres Chavez) Date: Mon Jul 14 12:59:13 2008 Subject: Postfix problem. Message-ID: <2de331130807140558q15fba58et52c04cbed592b6d4@mail.gmail.com> hey guys i am having problems with postfix on freebsd. Postfix its listening on port smtps (465) but not on smtp (25) and all of the services are up and running, even i can use the postfixadmin to add mailboxes etc. what can be happening? i am following this how-to http://www.purplehat.org/?page_id=4 step by step so any help would be great thanks in advance. -- Atte: Andres Eduardo Chavez O. Websites: http://www.noixe.net From asmodai at in-nomine.org Mon Jul 14 13:01:49 2008 From: asmodai at in-nomine.org (Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven) Date: Mon Jul 14 13:01:57 2008 Subject: Postfix problem. In-Reply-To: <2de331130807140558q15fba58et52c04cbed592b6d4@mail.gmail.com> References: <2de331130807140558q15fba58et52c04cbed592b6d4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080714130145.GC60130@nexus.in-nomine.org> -On [20080714 14:59], Andres Chavez (fluxboxtremist@gmail.com) wrote: >Postfix its listening on port smtps (465) but not on smtp (25) >and all of the services are up and running, even i can use the postfixadmin >to add mailboxes etc. The obvious: 1) check your logfiles 2) sockstat | grep 25 -- see if something is already bound on port 25 -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven / asmodai ????? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher. From kmf at fischer.org.za Mon Jul 14 13:07:02 2008 From: kmf at fischer.org.za (Karl Fischer) Date: Mon Jul 14 13:07:16 2008 Subject: Postfix problem. In-Reply-To: <2de331130807140558q15fba58et52c04cbed592b6d4@mail.gmail.com> References: <2de331130807140558q15fba58et52c04cbed592b6d4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Andres Chavez wrote: > hey guys i am having problems with postfix on freebsd. > > Postfix its listening on port smtps (465) but not on smtp (25) > and all of the services are up and running, even i can use the postfixadmin > to add mailboxes etc. Hi Anders What you can do is perhaps telnet into port 25 and see what service is running. like this : host# telnet localhost 25 Trying 127.0.0.1... Connected to localhost. Escape character is '^]'. 220 somehost.com ESMTP Sendmail 8.14.2/8.14.2; Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:11:00 +0200 (SAST) You are probably running Sendmail. You can read more here : http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/handbook/mail-changingmta.html Hope this helps. Karl -- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Fischer |_|0|_| "Absence of evidence |_|_|0| is not evidence of absence" |0|0|0| Carl Sagan - http://fischer.org.za - -------------------------------------------------- From asmodai at in-nomine.org Mon Jul 14 13:40:24 2008 From: asmodai at in-nomine.org (Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven) Date: Mon Jul 14 13:40:31 2008 Subject: Postfix problem. In-Reply-To: <2de331130807140635y78df4e89o34d245a43802de72@mail.gmail.com> References: <2de331130807140558q15fba58et52c04cbed592b6d4@mail.gmail.com> <20080714130145.GC60130@nexus.in-nomine.org> <2de331130807140614g2992f452rd487f2af2c6799ce@mail.gmail.com> <2de331130807140635y78df4e89o34d245a43802de72@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080714134021.GD60130@nexus.in-nomine.org> Can you please cc: the mailinglist? Thanks. -On [20080714 15:36], Andres Chavez (fluxboxtremist@gmail.com) wrote: >postfix/postfix-script: warning: not owned by group maildrop: /usr/sbin/ >postdrop > >postfix/postfix-script: warning: not set-gid or not owner+group+world >executable: /usr/sbin/postdrop > >postfix/postfix-script: starting the Postfix mail system. I would suggest: 0) clean your system from your botched attempt at installing postfix by yourself 1) read http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ports-using.html 2) install postfix from ports/mail/postfix And take it from there? -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven / asmodai ????? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B In every stone sleeps a crystal... From tim at clewlow.org Mon Jul 14 14:07:54 2008 From: tim at clewlow.org (Tim Clewlow) Date: Mon Jul 14 14:08:04 2008 Subject: Postfix problem. In-Reply-To: <20080714134021.GD60130@nexus.in-nomine.org> References: <2de331130807140558q15fba58et52c04cbed592b6d4@mail.gmail.com> <20080714130145.GC60130@nexus.in-nomine.org> <2de331130807140614g2992f452rd487f2af2c6799ce@mail.gmail.com> <2de331130807140635y78df4e89o34d245a43802de72@mail.gmail.com> <20080714134021.GD60130@nexus.in-nomine.org> Message-ID: <62827.192.168.1.10.1216044471.squirrel@192.168.1.100> > Can you please cc: the mailinglist? Thanks. > > -On [20080714 15:36], Andres Chavez (fluxboxtremist@gmail.com) > wrote: >>postfix/postfix-script: warning: not owned by group maildrop: >> /usr/sbin/ >>postdrop >> >>postfix/postfix-script: warning: not set-gid or not >> owner+group+world >>executable: /usr/sbin/postdrop >> >>postfix/postfix-script: starting the Postfix mail system. > > I would suggest: > > 0) clean your system from your botched attempt at installing postfix > by > yourself > 1) read > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ports-using.html > 2) install postfix from ports/mail/postfix > > And take it from there? > Hi there, I have attached the notes I gathered while making the postfix server that is sending you this mail. In particular, pay attention to the bit that says: As part of the installation the port asks if it could add user "postfix" to group "mail", I advise answering yes. It also offers to activate postfix in /etc/mail/mailer.conf, again answer yes. Regards, Tim. We are BSD ... resistance is futile. http://www.freebsd.org/ - http://www.openbsd.org/ - http://www.netbsd.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: postfix Type: application/octet-stream Size: 2233 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080714/43944bdc/postfix.obj From olli at lurza.secnetix.de Mon Jul 14 14:39:33 2008 From: olli at lurza.secnetix.de (Oliver Fromme) Date: Mon Jul 14 14:39:40 2008 Subject: GPG encryption of binary sample requested. In-Reply-To: <200807131636.m6DGZx73050160@fire.js.berklix.net> Message-ID: <200807141439.m6EEdKe8087203@lurza.secnetix.de> Julian Stacey wrote: > [...] > I'll have to install some other POP3 (or IMAP) server, Big choice: > cd /usr/ports/mail; echo *pop* > akpop3d cucipop freepops mdpop3d nullpop p5-vpopmail pecl-pop3 > pop-before-smtp pop3gwd pop3lite pop3proxy pop3vscan popa3d > popa3d-before-sendmail popcheck popclient popd popfile poppassd > popper poppwd poppy popular qpopper solidpop3d teapop teapop-devel > tpop3d vm-pop3d vpopmail vpopmail-devel wmmultipop3 wmpop3 wmpop3lb I'm a satisfied user of dovecot (ports/mail/dovecot) for several years. Installation was painless. Works with standard mailfolders, so you don't have to convert to maildir format if you don't want to. YMMV, of course. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch?ftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M?n- chen, HRB 125758, Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd Passwords are like underwear. You don't share them, you don't hang them on your monitor or under your keyboard, you don't email them, or put them on a web site, and you must change them very often. From d.hill at yournetplus.com Mon Jul 14 14:40:32 2008 From: d.hill at yournetplus.com (Duane Hill) Date: Mon Jul 14 14:40:44 2008 Subject: Postfix problem. In-Reply-To: <62827.192.168.1.10.1216044471.squirrel@192.168.1.100> References: <2de331130807140558q15fba58et52c04cbed592b6d4@mail.gmail.com> <20080714130145.GC60130@nexus.in-nomine.org> <2de331130807140614g2992f452rd487f2af2c6799ce@mail.gmail.com> <2de331130807140635y78df4e89o34d245a43802de72@mail.gmail.com> <20080714134021.GD60130@nexus.in-nomine.org> <62827.192.168.1.10.1216044471.squirrel@192.168.1.100> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Tim Clewlow wrote: > >> Can you please cc: the mailinglist? Thanks. >> >> -On [20080714 15:36], Andres Chavez (fluxboxtremist@gmail.com) >> wrote: >>> postfix/postfix-script: warning: not owned by group maildrop: >>> /usr/sbin/ >>> postdrop >>> >>> postfix/postfix-script: warning: not set-gid or not >>> owner+group+world >>> executable: /usr/sbin/postdrop >>> >>> postfix/postfix-script: starting the Postfix mail system. >> >> I would suggest: >> >> 0) clean your system from your botched attempt at installing postfix >> by >> yourself >> 1) read >> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ports-using.html >> 2) install postfix from ports/mail/postfix >> >> And take it from there? >> > > Hi there, > > I have attached the notes I gathered while making the postfix server > that is sending you this mail. In particular, pay attention to the > bit that says: > > As part of the installation the port asks if it could add user > "postfix" to group "mail", I advise answering yes. It also offers to > activate postfix in /etc/mail/mailer.conf, again answer yes. Not sure what the issue is other than what has already been suggested. However, Postfix can fix permission/owner-ship on its own files by doing: postfix set-permissions -d From joseph.koshy at gmail.com Mon Jul 14 14:55:16 2008 From: joseph.koshy at gmail.com (Joseph Koshy) Date: Mon Jul 14 14:55:22 2008 Subject: Announcement: PmcTools callchain capture for RELENG_7 In-Reply-To: <487B3F37.7000300@moneybookers.com> References: <84dead720807122205i33bf6eb0p998d473df9e52304@mail.gmail.com> <487B3F37.7000300@moneybookers.com> Message-ID: <84dead720807140755s300e0158p16415ee3b9185840@mail.gmail.com> > Does it mean that hwpmc from now will work "out of the box" with new Intel > core2 duo/quad processors (like T7500) ? No, someone needs to write the appropriate CPU-dependent module for that. For those who are interested in doing so, there is a HowTo document at: http://wiki.freebsd.org/PmcTools/PmcHardwareHowTo Koshy From ivoras at freebsd.org Mon Jul 14 14:55:48 2008 From: ivoras at freebsd.org (Ivan Voras) Date: Mon Jul 14 14:55:56 2008 Subject: FreeBSD Best Practice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Karl Fischer wrote: > Hello > I'm a SysAdmin, I'm wondering whether this is the correct list to ask? > I'm looking for FreeBSD Best Practice information, (or a FreeBSD > Mailing List, I can join) > I want to make sure that all my servers comply to at least some widely > accepted standards, > so in the event of me getting hit by a bus or being abducted by aliens, > another person can take over from me. > > I have done a search through the mailing lists and this seems like the > list to ask. The only thing that comes close to that is the Handbook, which covers only the base system (e.g. without web servers, databases and similar "third party" software). The Handbook describes how to set up RAID, networking, add users, sendmail (but no POP3/IMAP servers), etc. in a fairly detailed and consistent way. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080714/ac28604c/signature.pgp From koitsu at FreeBSD.org Mon Jul 14 14:58:44 2008 From: koitsu at FreeBSD.org (Jeremy Chadwick) Date: Mon Jul 14 14:58:50 2008 Subject: GPG encryption of binary sample requested. In-Reply-To: <200807141439.m6EEdKe8087203@lurza.secnetix.de> References: <200807131636.m6DGZx73050160@fire.js.berklix.net> <200807141439.m6EEdKe8087203@lurza.secnetix.de> Message-ID: <20080714145843.GA50893@eos.sc1.parodius.com> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 04:39:20PM +0200, Oliver Fromme wrote: > Julian Stacey wrote: > > [...] > > I'll have to install some other POP3 (or IMAP) server, Big choice: > > cd /usr/ports/mail; echo *pop* > > akpop3d cucipop freepops mdpop3d nullpop p5-vpopmail pecl-pop3 > > pop-before-smtp pop3gwd pop3lite pop3proxy pop3vscan popa3d > > popa3d-before-sendmail popcheck popclient popd popfile poppassd > > popper poppwd poppy popular qpopper solidpop3d teapop teapop-devel > > tpop3d vm-pop3d vpopmail vpopmail-devel wmmultipop3 wmpop3 wmpop3lb > > I'm a satisfied user of dovecot (ports/mail/dovecot) for > several years. Installation was painless. Works with > standard mailfolders, so you don't have to convert to > maildir format if you don't want to. YMMV, of course. I'm also a satisfied user of dovecot (after switching from qpopper!). There is a problem I continually encounter with dovecot, however -- but it only applies if you're using dovecot with postfix, and have postfix configured to use dovecot as the SMTP AUTH authentication mechanism (yes, that's a feature dovecot provides as well!). -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From dfeustel at mindspring.com Mon Jul 14 15:20:17 2008 From: dfeustel at mindspring.com (dfeustel@mindspring.com) Date: Mon Jul 14 15:20:27 2008 Subject: FreeBSD Best Practice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080714152017.18A4D8FC13@mx1.freebsd.org> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 04:55:32PM +0200, Ivan Voras wrote: > Karl Fischer wrote: > > Hello > > I'm a SysAdmin, I'm wondering whether this is the correct list to ask? > > I'm looking for FreeBSD Best Practice information, (or a FreeBSD > > Mailing List, I can join) > > I want to make sure that all my servers comply to at least some widely > > accepted standards, > > so in the event of me getting hit by a bus or being abducted by aliens, > > another person can take over from me. > > > > I have done a search through the mailing lists and this seems like the > > list to ask. > > The only thing that comes close to that is the Handbook, which covers > only the base system (e.g. without web servers, databases and similar > "third party" software). The Handbook describes how to set up RAID, > networking, add users, sendmail (but no POP3/IMAP servers), etc. in a > fairly detailed and consistent way. Also, check out _Building a Server with FreeBSD 7_ by Bryan Hong. From ancelgray at yahoo.com Mon Jul 14 16:07:43 2008 From: ancelgray at yahoo.com (ancelgray@yahoo.com) Date: Mon Jul 14 16:17:23 2008 Subject: Hardware support for AMD Geode CS5536 audio? In-Reply-To: <20080121170155.GC51116@hamlet.SetFilePointer.com> Message-ID: <21541490.01216080059414.JavaMail.root@wombat.diezmil.com> OK, After doing a little more reading, I see that a DOS test program is impossible because the MSR registers for the audio controller are accessed in protected mode only. There actually are opcoded assembler instructions to access the MSR's: RDMSR WRMSR This is a show stopper in DOS. This is gonna take a little patience. Andrew -- This message was sent on behalf of ancelgray@yahoo.com at openSubscriber.com http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org/8429646.html From tom at trancegeek.net Mon Jul 14 16:58:11 2008 From: tom at trancegeek.net (Tom Norris) Date: Mon Jul 14 16:58:18 2008 Subject: FreeBSD Best Practice Message-ID: <20080714165811.49A4C8FC0A@mx1.freebsd.org> Absolute FreeBSD by Michael W. Lucas is also a good book for getting a FreeBSD system up and running. When I first started running BSD that book and the handbook were my bibles. (sorry for the top reply -- limitation of my wintendo phone) -----Original Message----- From: Karl Fischer Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 7:08 AM To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD Best Practice Hello I'm a SysAdmin, I'm wondering whether this is the correct list to ask? I'm looking for FreeBSD Best Practice information, (or a FreeBSD Mailing List, I can join) I want to make sure that all my servers comply to at least some widely accepted standards, so in the event of me getting hit by a bus or being abducted by aliens, another person can take over from me. I have done a search through the mailing lists and this seems like the list to ask. Thanks Karl -- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Fischer |_|0|_| "Absence of evidence |_|_|0| is not evidence of absence" |0|0|0| Carl Sagan - http://fischer.org.za - -------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From tapan.list at gmail.com Mon Jul 14 18:36:19 2008 From: tapan.list at gmail.com (Tapan Chaudhari) Date: Mon Jul 14 18:36:27 2008 Subject: Can I change the device of the "/" mount point at boot time. Message-ID: <482257ad0807141106m679ec19frd853339637d27a2d@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, I am new to FreeBSD and this mailing list as well. What I want to achieve is change the device of my mount point '/'(or any other mount point) after I reboot the machine. I have some knowledge about initrd in Linux in which I can change the device for '/' and than reboot the machine so that it takes a new device for '/'. How can I achieve this in FreeBSD? I am using the latest release 7.0. Any pointers will be helpful. Thanks, --Tapan. From koitsu at FreeBSD.org Mon Jul 14 18:40:30 2008 From: koitsu at FreeBSD.org (Jeremy Chadwick) Date: Mon Jul 14 18:40:37 2008 Subject: Can I change the device of the "/" mount point at boot time. In-Reply-To: <482257ad0807141106m679ec19frd853339637d27a2d@mail.gmail.com> References: <482257ad0807141106m679ec19frd853339637d27a2d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080714184030.GA62288@eos.sc1.parodius.com> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:36:52PM +0530, Tapan Chaudhari wrote: > Hi All, > I am new to FreeBSD and this mailing list as well. > What I want to achieve is change the device of my mount point '/'(or any > other mount point) after I reboot the machine. I have some knowledge about > initrd in Linux in which I can change the device for '/' and than reboot the > machine so that it takes a new device for '/'. > How can I achieve this in FreeBSD? I am using the latest release 7.0. Any > pointers will be helpful. I think you're looking for the loader variables rootdev or root.vfs.mountrootfsfrom. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From tapan.list at gmail.com Mon Jul 14 19:18:57 2008 From: tapan.list at gmail.com (Tapan Chaudhari) Date: Mon Jul 14 19:19:04 2008 Subject: Can I change the device of the "/" mount point at boot time. In-Reply-To: <20080714184030.GA62288@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <482257ad0807141106m679ec19frd853339637d27a2d@mail.gmail.com> <20080714184030.GA62288@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Message-ID: <482257ad0807141218l26cbb95aid91414a3c88a121c@mail.gmail.com> This is not exactly what I wanted. I will try to elaborate myself. I am creating my own device which will act as a new boot slice which must be mounted as '/'. New device will process i/o calls and then redirect the i/o calls to original device of '/'. Now since I cannot unmount '/' and mount it again with my new device while system is running, I will have to find a way to tell kernel to mount my new device as '/' from next time onwards it boots. does anyone have suggestions on this? Thanks, --Tapan. On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 12:10 AM, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:36:52PM +0530, Tapan Chaudhari wrote: > > Hi All, > > I am new to FreeBSD and this mailing list as well. > > What I want to achieve is change the device of my mount point '/'(or any > > other mount point) after I reboot the machine. I have some knowledge > about > > initrd in Linux in which I can change the device for '/' and than reboot > the > > machine so that it takes a new device for '/'. > > How can I achieve this in FreeBSD? I am using the latest release 7.0. Any > > pointers will be helpful. > > I think you're looking for the loader variables rootdev or > root.vfs.mountrootfsfrom. > > -- > | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | > | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | > | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | > | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | > > From mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df at mired.org Mon Jul 14 19:37:15 2008 From: mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df at mired.org (Mike Meyer) Date: Mon Jul 14 19:37:22 2008 Subject: Can I change the device of the "/" mount point at boot time. In-Reply-To: <482257ad0807141218l26cbb95aid91414a3c88a121c@mail.gmail.com> References: <482257ad0807141106m679ec19frd853339637d27a2d@mail.gmail.com> <20080714184030.GA62288@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <482257ad0807141218l26cbb95aid91414a3c88a121c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080714153653.59ecb307@bhuda.mired.org> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 00:48:42 +0530 "Tapan Chaudhari" wrote: > This is not exactly what I wanted. I will try to elaborate myself. > I am creating my own device which will act as a new boot slice which must be > mounted as '/'. New device will process i/o calls and then redirect the i/o > calls to original device of '/'. Now since I cannot unmount '/' and mount it > again with my new device while system is running, I will have to find a way > to tell kernel to mount my new device as '/' from next time onwards it > boots. > does anyone have suggestions on this? That's pretty much exactly what vfs.root.mountfrom does. Edit /boot/loader.conf to add a line: vfs.root_mountfrom="fstype:devicespec" and you're good to go. The kernel will boot from your default root partition, then remount root using the value of that variable. I.e. - I set mine to "zfs:internal/root" to boot my system to a zfs root. http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From tapan.list at gmail.com Mon Jul 14 20:38:38 2008 From: tapan.list at gmail.com (Tapan Chaudhari) Date: Mon Jul 14 20:38:45 2008 Subject: Can I change the device of the "/" mount point at boot time. In-Reply-To: <20080714153653.59ecb307@bhuda.mired.org> References: <482257ad0807141106m679ec19frd853339637d27a2d@mail.gmail.com> <20080714184030.GA62288@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <482257ad0807141218l26cbb95aid91414a3c88a121c@mail.gmail.com> <20080714153653.59ecb307@bhuda.mired.org> Message-ID: <482257ad0807141310h3381a97dif17290aed1133cfe@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Thanks a lot Mike. But the problem is the device I am talking about is not the physical device. I am writing a driver which will create a virtual device and all the i/os done on this virtual device will be ultimately redirected to the original device. Correct me if I am wrong, but I guess the loader will try to mount my new device on '/' and then load the modules into the kernel. Since my driver would not be loaded at that point in time, it will fail to even mount '/'. Am I right? Or can our drivers get loaded before loader mounts '/' ? Thanks, --Tapan. On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 1:06 AM, Mike Meyer wrote: > On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 00:48:42 +0530 > "Tapan Chaudhari" wrote: > > > This is not exactly what I wanted. I will try to elaborate myself. > > I am creating my own device which will act as a new boot slice which must > be > > mounted as '/'. New device will process i/o calls and then redirect the > i/o > > calls to original device of '/'. Now since I cannot unmount '/' and mount > it > > again with my new device while system is running, I will have to find a > way > > to tell kernel to mount my new device as '/' from next time onwards it > > boots. > > does anyone have suggestions on this? > > That's pretty much exactly what vfs.root.mountfrom does. Edit > /boot/loader.conf to add a line: > > vfs.root_mountfrom="fstype:devicespec" > > and you're good to go. The kernel will boot from your default root > partition, then remount root using the value of that variable. I.e. - > I set mine to "zfs:internal/root" to boot my system to a zfs root. > > -- > Mike Meyer > http://www.mired.org/consulting.html > Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. > > O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org > From mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df at mired.org Mon Jul 14 20:58:04 2008 From: mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df at mired.org (Mike Meyer) Date: Mon Jul 14 20:58:10 2008 Subject: Can I change the device of the "/" mount point at boot time. In-Reply-To: <482257ad0807141310h3381a97dif17290aed1133cfe@mail.gmail.com> References: <482257ad0807141106m679ec19frd853339637d27a2d@mail.gmail.com> <20080714184030.GA62288@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <482257ad0807141218l26cbb95aid91414a3c88a121c@mail.gmail.com> <20080714153653.59ecb307@bhuda.mired.org> <482257ad0807141310h3381a97dif17290aed1133cfe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080714165747.6c12371b@bhuda.mired.org> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 01:40:24 +0530 "Tapan Chaudhari" wrote: > Hi, > Thanks a lot Mike. But the problem is the device I am talking about is > not the physical device. I am writing a driver which will create a virtual > device and all the i/os done on this virtual device will be ultimately > redirected to the original device. Correct me if I am wrong, but I guess the > loader will try to mount my new device on '/' and then load the modules into > the kernel. Since my driver would not be loaded at that point in time, it > will fail to even mount '/'. Am I right? Or can our drivers get loaded > before loader mounts '/' ? You gotta keep your "/"'s straight. The kernel will boot of off a physical devices - pretty much required. At that point, you can use boot.config to load modules from that device, including any needed to keep your driver happy. Set the vsf.root.mountfrom to tell the kernel what where to find what's going to become the root file system when it gets to that point. The process is documented in the man pages, starting with say boot(8). Read through that and some of the "SEE ALSO" pages. http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From mjguzik at gmail.com Mon Jul 14 21:13:13 2008 From: mjguzik at gmail.com (Mateusz Guzik) Date: Mon Jul 14 21:13:44 2008 Subject: Can I change the device of the "/" mount point at boot time. In-Reply-To: <482257ad0807141310h3381a97dif17290aed1133cfe@mail.gmail.com> References: <482257ad0807141106m679ec19frd853339637d27a2d@mail.gmail.com> <20080714184030.GA62288@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <482257ad0807141218l26cbb95aid91414a3c88a121c@mail.gmail.com> <20080714153653.59ecb307@bhuda.mired.org> <482257ad0807141310h3381a97dif17290aed1133cfe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: 2008/7/14 Tapan Chaudhari : > > Hi, > Thanks a lot Mike. But the problem is the device I am talking about is > not the physical device. I am writing a driver which will create a virtual > device and all the i/os done on this virtual device will be ultimately > redirected to the original device. Correct me if I am wrong, but I guess the > loader will try to mount my new device on '/' and then load the modules into > the kernel. Since my driver would not be loaded at that point in time, it > will fail to even mount '/'. Am I right? Or can our drivers get loaded > before loader mounts '/' ? Yes, take a look at /boot/loader.conf . From MTaylor at bytecraft.com.au Tue Jul 15 01:11:01 2008 From: MTaylor at bytecraft.com.au (Murray Taylor) Date: Tue Jul 15 01:11:08 2008 Subject: massive interrupt storm Message-ID: <04E232FDCD9FBE43857F7066CAD3C0F15B837B@svmailmel.bytecraft.internal> On Tue, Jul 08, 2008 at 05:21:34PM +1000, Murray Taylor wrote: > We have variously shutdown all USB in the bios, pulled the Raid > daughter board, and still cant solve this storm. Have you tried disabling MSI and MSI-X in FreeBSD to see if it makes a difference? Set hw.pci.enable_msi="0" and hw.pci.enable_msix="0" in /boot/loader.conf and reboot. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | ---------------------------- Nope, :( Interrupt usage is still around the 89-95% :( NB sysctl -a | grep msi returns nothing, and attempting to set the values directly returns 'unknown OID' this is on 6.2 GENERIC -------- Still looking for any other hints as to what may be causing this storm. We have tried the msi hints above, with no joy. shutting down USB stuff in the BIOS (no joy), disabling ACPI on boot (this generates a kernel fault and reboots) and different keyboards ( USB only, this thing has no PS/2 ports ) This only thing that made a difference, and that was not totally repeatable was unplugging and re-plugging a keyboard after boot.... then the storm stopped, but we were still without bge1 (a single NIC firewall is kinda useless!) Murray Taylor --------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted in this e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended addressee and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, dissemination or other use of it, or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons and/or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please inform the sender and/or addressee immediately and delete the material. E-mails may not be secure, may contain computer viruses and may be corrupted in transmission. Please carefully check this e-mail (and any attachment) accordingly. No warranties are given and no liability is accepted for any loss or damage caused by such matters. --------------------------------------------------------------- ### This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses by Bytecraft ### From tapan.list at gmail.com Tue Jul 15 02:25:06 2008 From: tapan.list at gmail.com (Tapan Chaudhari) Date: Tue Jul 15 02:25:13 2008 Subject: Can I change the device of the "/" mount point at boot time. In-Reply-To: <20080714165747.6c12371b@bhuda.mired.org> References: <482257ad0807141106m679ec19frd853339637d27a2d@mail.gmail.com> <20080714184030.GA62288@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <482257ad0807141218l26cbb95aid91414a3c88a121c@mail.gmail.com> <20080714153653.59ecb307@bhuda.mired.org> <482257ad0807141310h3381a97dif17290aed1133cfe@mail.gmail.com> <20080714165747.6c12371b@bhuda.mired.org> Message-ID: <482257ad0807141925m37c5b46bqa65c33852078b6f8@mail.gmail.com> Thank You Mateusz and Mike. I guess I am clear with my doubt now. I will also go through the man pages to go into depth of it. Thanks, --Tapan. On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 2:27 AM, Mike Meyer wrote: > On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 01:40:24 +0530 > "Tapan Chaudhari" wrote: > > > Hi, > > Thanks a lot Mike. But the problem is the device I am talking about is > > not the physical device. I am writing a driver which will create a > virtual > > device and all the i/os done on this virtual device will be ultimately > > redirected to the original device. Correct me if I am wrong, but I guess > the > > loader will try to mount my new device on '/' and then load the modules > into > > the kernel. Since my driver would not be loaded at that point in time, it > > will fail to even mount '/'. Am I right? Or can our drivers get loaded > > before loader mounts '/' ? > > You gotta keep your "/"'s straight. The kernel will boot of off a > physical devices - pretty much required. At that point, you can use > boot.config to load modules from that device, including any needed to > keep your driver happy. Set the vsf.root.mountfrom to tell the kernel > what where to find what's going to become the root file system when it > gets to that point. > > The process is documented in the man pages, starting with say > boot(8). Read through that and some of the "SEE ALSO" pages. > > -- > Mike Meyer > http://www.mired.org/consulting.html > Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. > > O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org > From neldredge at math.ucsd.edu Tue Jul 15 03:31:16 2008 From: neldredge at math.ucsd.edu (Nate Eldredge) Date: Tue Jul 15 03:31:23 2008 Subject: SCHED_4BSD bad interactivity on 7.0 vs 6.3 In-Reply-To: References: <4879563B.5090201@FreeBSD.org> <4879D46E.7080104@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, Nate Eldredge wrote: > On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, Kris Kennaway wrote: > >> Nate Eldredge wrote: >>> On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, Kris Kennaway wrote: >>> >>>> Nate Eldredge wrote: >>>>> Hi folks, >>>>> >>>>> Hopefully this is a good list for this topic. >>>>> >>>>> It seems like there has been a regression in interactivity from >>>>> 6.3-RELEASE to 7.0-RELEASE when using the SCHED_4BSD scheduler. After >>>>> upgrading my single-cpu amd64 box, 7.0 has much worse latency. When >>>>> running a kernel compile, there is a noticeable lag to echo my typing or >>>>> scroll my browser windows, and playing an mp3 frequently cuts out for a >>>>> second or two. This did not happen on 6.3-RELEASE. >>>> >>>> Are you sure it's not the x.org server bug that was present in the >>>> version shipped with 7.0? Update to the latest version and see if your X >>>> interactivity improves. >>> >>> Yes, I had not yet upgraded my x.org port when testing this, so it was the >>> same x.org that was fine under 6.3. Also: >>> >>>>> I wrote a small program which forks two processes that run >>>>> gettimeofday() in a tight loop to see how long they get scheduled out. >>>>> On 6.3 the maximum latency is usually under 100 ms. On 7.0 it is 500 ms >>>>> or more even when nothing else is running on the system. When a compile >>>>> is also running it is sometimes 1400 ms or more. >>> >>> This test shows a difference even in single user mode, when X is not >>> running at all. >>> >> >> It shows *a* difference, but perhaps not the *same* difference. Please >> humour me and rule it out. > > Okay. I am in the process of recompiling all my ports, so after that is done > I will boot with a GENERIC kernel and see what happens. After trying this, I can't seem to reproduce the sound skipping behavior, unless I do something fairly extreme like "make -j 6". But the mouse does seem to skip when a compile is running, so I do believe there is a regression. -- Nate Eldredge neldredge@math.ucsd.edu From doconnor at gsoft.com.au Tue Jul 15 04:05:00 2008 From: doconnor at gsoft.com.au (Daniel O'Connor) Date: Tue Jul 15 04:05:07 2008 Subject: Can I change the device of the "/" mount point at boot time. In-Reply-To: <482257ad0807141925m37c5b46bqa65c33852078b6f8@mail.gmail.com> References: <482257ad0807141106m679ec19frd853339637d27a2d@mail.gmail.com> <20080714165747.6c12371b@bhuda.mired.org> <482257ad0807141925m37c5b46bqa65c33852078b6f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200807151302.30415.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Tapan Chaudhari wrote: > Thank You Mateusz and Mike. I guess I am clear with my doubt now. I > will also go through the man pages to go into depth of it. The critical thing is that the loader must read the kernel (and modules, config etc..) from a disk the BIOS knows about. After that you can use any device the kernel knows about. As for the virtual device aspect - could you use a geom class to do you want? It's hard to say without an overview of what you actually want to achieve :) -- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 5596 B766 97C0 0E94 4347 295E E593 DC20 7B3F CE8C -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080715/fcea7064/attachment.pgp From tapan.list at gmail.com Tue Jul 15 04:38:27 2008 From: tapan.list at gmail.com (Tapan Chaudhari) Date: Tue Jul 15 04:38:34 2008 Subject: Can I change the device of the "/" mount point at boot time. In-Reply-To: <200807151302.30415.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> References: <482257ad0807141106m679ec19frd853339637d27a2d@mail.gmail.com> <20080714165747.6c12371b@bhuda.mired.org> <482257ad0807141925m37c5b46bqa65c33852078b6f8@mail.gmail.com> <200807151302.30415.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> Message-ID: <482257ad0807142138j1f7b7dd8nda7de865a4616fc0@mail.gmail.com> Hey, Thanks Deniel for the reply. I am aware of the fact you mentioned and will keep in mind. Well what i am trying to achieve is a simple thing to write an interception driver to catch all the i/os going to a particular device, do some manipulations on it and than let it through to the original device. Well as you mentioned about geom, I have recently posted a mail on GEOM mailing list as I could not find geom doing interception, the discussion is still on (You can see the mails with subject line "Can GEOM be used to intercept the I/o calls to an existing mounted device?"). Any sugessuions on interception driver will be helpful? As an interception driver is not possible, for time being I am going towards the redirection concept which will require a reboot and changing the devices on the mount points. For redirection driver, I dont think I will need geom. I can directly create a new device. Rather I think it would be an overhead using geom for a virtual device. Any thoughts on both the issues? Thanks, --Tapan. On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 9:02 AM, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Tapan Chaudhari wrote: > > Thank You Mateusz and Mike. I guess I am clear with my doubt now. I > > will also go through the man pages to go into depth of it. > > The critical thing is that the loader must read the kernel (and modules, > config etc..) from a disk the BIOS knows about. > > After that you can use any device the kernel knows about. > > As for the virtual device aspect - could you use a geom class to do you > want? It's hard to say without an overview of what you actually want to > achieve :) > > -- > Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer > for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au > "The nice thing about standards is that there > are so many of them to choose from." > -- Andrew Tanenbaum > GPG Fingerprint - 5596 B766 97C0 0E94 4347 295E E593 DC20 7B3F CE8C > From guru at unixarea.de Tue Jul 15 04:56:19 2008 From: guru at unixarea.de (Matthias Apitz) Date: Tue Jul 15 04:56:25 2008 Subject: list blocklist from inode Message-ID: <20080715045128.GA2031@rebelion.Sisis.de> Hello, Is there a way (without using fsdb(8)) to list the block list from a given inode? thx matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/ ?...una sola vez, que es cuanto basta si se trata de verdades definitivas.? ?...only once, which is enough if it has todo with definite truth.? Jos? Saramago, Historia del Cerca de Lisboa From rick-freebsd at kiwi-computer.com Tue Jul 15 05:08:51 2008 From: rick-freebsd at kiwi-computer.com (Rick C. Petty) Date: Tue Jul 15 05:08:59 2008 Subject: list blocklist from inode In-Reply-To: <20080715045128.GA2031@rebelion.Sisis.de> References: <20080715045128.GA2031@rebelion.Sisis.de> Message-ID: <20080715050850.GA94069@keira.kiwi-computer.com> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 06:51:28AM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote: > > Is there a way (without using fsdb(8)) to list the block list from a > given inode? thx ffsinfo -i -l 0x230 -- Rick C. Petty From doconnor at gsoft.com.au Tue Jul 15 06:08:45 2008 From: doconnor at gsoft.com.au (Daniel O'Connor) Date: Tue Jul 15 06:08:52 2008 Subject: Can I change the device of the "/" mount point at boot time. In-Reply-To: <482257ad0807142138j1f7b7dd8nda7de865a4616fc0@mail.gmail.com> References: <482257ad0807141106m679ec19frd853339637d27a2d@mail.gmail.com> <200807151302.30415.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> <482257ad0807142138j1f7b7dd8nda7de865a4616fc0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200807151538.38285.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Tapan Chaudhari wrote: > Thanks Deniel for the reply. I am aware of the fact you mentioned > and will keep in mind. > Well what i am trying to achieve is a simple thing to write an > interception driver to catch all the i/os going to a particular > device, do some manipulations on it and than let it through to the > original device. Well as you mentioned about geom, I have recently > posted a mail on GEOM mailing list as I could not find geom doing > interception, the discussion is still on (You can see the mails with > subject line "Can GEOM be used to intercept the I/o calls to an > existing mounted device?"). Any sugessuions on interception driver > will be helpful? My first question would be "Why do you want to do that?" > As an interception driver is not possible, for time being I am going > towards the redirection concept which will require a reboot and > changing the devices on the mount points. For redirection driver, I > dont think I will need geom. I can directly create a new device. > Rather I think it would be an overhead using geom for a virtual > device. > Any thoughts on both the issues? I think you'd have a lower overhead and much less hassle writing a GEOM class and using that. -- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 5596 B766 97C0 0E94 4347 295E E593 DC20 7B3F CE8C -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080715/c9d349d2/attachment.pgp From mjguzik at gmail.com Tue Jul 15 21:35:24 2008 From: mjguzik at gmail.com (Mateusz Guzik) Date: Tue Jul 15 21:35:54 2008 Subject: Usage of priv_cred in sys/kern/kern_ktrace.c Message-ID: <20080715213520.GP41336@skucha.home.aster.pl> Hi, ktrace has the ability to set flag KTRFAC_ROOT, indicating that the root user started tracing of the given process. It does the following: if (priv_check(td, PRIV_KTRACE) == 0) p->p_traceflag |= KTRFAC_ROOT; I believe this check is wrong and should be changes to something like: if (td->td_ucred->cr_uid == UID_ROOT) p->p_traceflag |= KTRFAC_ROOT; Also, despite the existence of PRIV_KTRACE, there's no way to disable ktrace using the MAC framework, because priv_check is only used in case described above. Am I misintepreting something? If I'm right, what do You think about the attached patch? :) Thanks for Your time, -- Mateusz Guzik -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ktrace.diff Type: text/x-diff Size: 2063 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080715/05555820/ktrace.bin From tapan.list at gmail.com Wed Jul 16 07:31:48 2008 From: tapan.list at gmail.com (Tapan Chaudhari) Date: Wed Jul 16 07:31:55 2008 Subject: Can I change the device of the "/" mount point at boot time. In-Reply-To: <200807151538.38285.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> References: <482257ad0807141106m679ec19frd853339637d27a2d@mail.gmail.com> <200807151302.30415.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> <482257ad0807142138j1f7b7dd8nda7de865a4616fc0@mail.gmail.com> <200807151538.38285.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> Message-ID: <482257ad0807160031k34980a19na9895f38f125d4e0@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Tapan Chaudhari wrote: > > Thanks Deniel for the reply. I am aware of the fact you mentioned > > and will keep in mind. > > Well what i am trying to achieve is a simple thing to write an > > interception driver to catch all the i/os going to a particular > > device, do some manipulations on it and than let it through to the > > original device. Well as you mentioned about geom, I have recently > > posted a mail on GEOM mailing list as I could not find geom doing > > interception, the discussion is still on (You can see the mails with > > subject line "Can GEOM be used to intercept the I/o calls to an > > existing mounted device?"). Any sugessuions on interception driver > > will be helpful? > > My first question would be "Why do you want to do that?" I am planning to write a block level snapshot driver. > > > > As an interception driver is not possible, for time being I am going > > towards the redirection concept which will require a reboot and > > changing the devices on the mount points. For redirection driver, I > > dont think I will need geom. I can directly create a new device. > > Rather I think it would be an overhead using geom for a virtual > > device. > > Any thoughts on both the issues? > > I think you'd have a lower overhead and much less hassle writing a GEOM > class and using that. > This sounds good. I will try using GEOM first. But if I could achieve interception, as I described earlier, I will go for that rather than redirection. > > -- > Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer > for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au > "The nice thing about standards is that there > are so many of them to choose from." > -- Andrew Tanenbaum > GPG Fingerprint - 5596 B766 97C0 0E94 4347 295E E593 DC20 7B3F CE8C > From jan6146 at gmail.com Wed Jul 16 13:40:04 2008 From: jan6146 at gmail.com (Rob) Date: Wed Jul 16 13:45:19 2008 Subject: I'm sorry about being a jerk regarding Sysinstall a week or so ago Message-ID: <784966050807160640q31f13160t91702a150bd5b152@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I've very sorry about being such a jerk about my complaint regarding Sysinstall a week or so ago. It was a week where I was getting 2 hours of sleep per day. Finally my PCP had to intervene and knock me out with big doses of sleeping pills. :) It occasionally happens, then I have half a dozen apologies to make. I promise I will never mention Sysinstall again! I continue to use FreeBSD as I have for the last 10 years and I guess my biggest contribution has been making it known to people and evangelizing it, as it really does blow away Linux in performance. Sincerely, Rob -- ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds (Ham radio videos) From koitsu at FreeBSD.org Wed Jul 16 14:10:56 2008 From: koitsu at FreeBSD.org (Jeremy Chadwick) Date: Wed Jul 16 14:11:23 2008 Subject: I'm sorry about being a jerk regarding Sysinstall a week or so ago In-Reply-To: <784966050807160640q31f13160t91702a150bd5b152@mail.gmail.com> References: <784966050807160640q31f13160t91702a150bd5b152@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080716141056.GA9656@eos.sc1.parodius.com> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 06:40:03AM -0700, Rob wrote: > I've very sorry about being such a jerk about my complaint regarding > Sysinstall a week or so ago. It was a week where I was getting 2 hours of > sleep per day. Finally my PCP had to intervene and knock me out with big > doses of sleeping pills. :) It occasionally happens, then I have half a > dozen apologies to make. I promise I will never mention Sysinstall again! > > I continue to use FreeBSD as I have for the last 10 years and I guess my > biggest contribution has been making it known to people and evangelizing it, > as it really does blow away Linux in performance. For what it's worth, I found the discussion interesting. I appreciate insights of users (not purely SAs), because it gives me a better idea of how people use tools differently than I do, and if they find the same quirks annoying that I do (which seems to be the case). I don't think you should be sorry, but your humbleness is noted. :-) -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From assaulter0x80 at gmail.com Wed Jul 16 20:04:15 2008 From: assaulter0x80 at gmail.com (Jacky Oh) Date: Wed Jul 16 20:04:21 2008 Subject: SYSINIT Message-ID: Hello, I'm insvestigating about KLD's programming, and I cant find in my way wiht the SYSINIT framework. My problem is that im from spanish, and the SYSINIT concept is more complex for my as I understand in english. My question is, anyone can explain to in a less complex form? please, I would be very grateful, thankzz!! I belive that is a kernel trap for link modules and sub-systems, but i don't sure. The best documentation about it is the charpter 5 of "FreeBSD Architechture Handbook" Is the best doc but i need a small help..I'm writing a KLD programming article for a spanish underground magazine. From david at compudoc.de Thu Jul 17 00:13:24 2008 From: david at compudoc.de (David) Date: Thu Jul 17 00:13:31 2008 Subject: reading a file in kernelmode Message-ID: <002d01c8e79e$200078d0$60016a70$@de> Hello, I'm developing a FreeBSD kernel module and I'm searching for a good solution to open/read/close a file. My goal is to generate a MD5-Hash of a given file (path). Open-Syscall seems to be improper. Any ideas/solutions/examples? Thanks a lot Greetings, David From xorquewasp at googlemail.com Thu Jul 17 00:19:34 2008 From: xorquewasp at googlemail.com (xorquewasp@googlemail.com) Date: Thu Jul 17 00:19:42 2008 Subject: do not strip, compile with debugging symbols Message-ID: <20080716234933.GA85290@logik.internal.network> Hello. What's the correct way to ensure that ports are built with '-g' and that binaries/libraries created are not stripped? I'm assuming the first one involves setting CFLAGS in /etc/make.conf (admittedly, it's apparently not supported but I'm not building world with this setting anyway). The second, I'm not so sure about. I thought I'd heard of a NO_STRIP setting but if it exists, it's not documented. xw From delphij at delphij.net Thu Jul 17 00:38:09 2008 From: delphij at delphij.net (Xin LI) Date: Thu Jul 17 00:38:17 2008 Subject: do not strip, compile with debugging symbols In-Reply-To: <20080716234933.GA85290@logik.internal.network> References: <20080716234933.GA85290@logik.internal.network> Message-ID: <487E9466.5010701@delphij.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 xorquewasp@googlemail.com wrote: | Hello. | | What's the correct way to ensure that ports are built with '-g' | and that binaries/libraries created are not stripped? I'm assuming | the first one involves setting CFLAGS in /etc/make.conf (admittedly, | it's apparently not supported but I'm not building world with this | setting anyway). | | The second, I'm not so sure about. I thought I'd heard of a NO_STRIP | setting but if it exists, it's not documented. I think the setting is spelled as 'WITH_DEBUG=yes' which will add '-g' and remove stripping. However, it still depends on the ported software whether they will strip, most times they will obey the settings (if not then it's a bug that should have fixed anyway). - -- Xin LI http://www.delphij.net/ FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkh+lGYACgkQi+vbBBjt66C+BwCeMRzZaME1pV5b/G0PEkfmHFIY ttwAnRqb38Qgju365yitGRGAejfyj/zP =EfoP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From xorquewasp at googlemail.com Thu Jul 17 00:57:16 2008 From: xorquewasp at googlemail.com (xorquewasp@googlemail.com) Date: Thu Jul 17 00:57:23 2008 Subject: do not strip, compile with debugging symbols In-Reply-To: <487E9466.5010701@delphij.net> References: <20080716234933.GA85290@logik.internal.network> <487E9466.5010701@delphij.net> Message-ID: <20080717005548.GA51632@logik.internal.network> On 20080716 17:37:58, Xin LI wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > xorquewasp@googlemail.com wrote: > | Hello. > | > | What's the correct way to ensure that ports are built with '-g' > | and that binaries/libraries created are not stripped? I'm assuming > | the first one involves setting CFLAGS in /etc/make.conf (admittedly, > | it's apparently not supported but I'm not building world with this > | setting anyway). > | > | The second, I'm not so sure about. I thought I'd heard of a NO_STRIP > | setting but if it exists, it's not documented. > > I think the setting is spelled as 'WITH_DEBUG=yes' which will add '-g' > and remove stripping. However, it still depends on the ported software > whether they will strip, most times they will obey the settings (if not > then it's a bug that should have fixed anyway). Hi. Yes, that does seem to work. The only problem is that it also disables any optimization flags (I was hoping to compile with -O2 -g as I don't need to do in-depth debugging, just have decent stack traces). I tried setting CFLAGS to '-O2' but WITH_DEBUG seems to override this, too. xw From delphij at delphij.net Thu Jul 17 01:06:45 2008 From: delphij at delphij.net (Xin LI) Date: Thu Jul 17 01:06:52 2008 Subject: do not strip, compile with debugging symbols In-Reply-To: <20080717005548.GA51632@logik.internal.network> References: <20080716234933.GA85290@logik.internal.network> <487E9466.5010701@delphij.net> <20080717005548.GA51632@logik.internal.network> Message-ID: <487E9B1A.4040809@delphij.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 xorquewasp@googlemail.com wrote: | On 20080716 17:37:58, Xin LI wrote: |> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- |> Hash: SHA1 |> |> xorquewasp@googlemail.com wrote: |> | Hello. |> | |> | What's the correct way to ensure that ports are built with '-g' |> | and that binaries/libraries created are not stripped? I'm assuming |> | the first one involves setting CFLAGS in /etc/make.conf (admittedly, |> | it's apparently not supported but I'm not building world with this |> | setting anyway). |> | |> | The second, I'm not so sure about. I thought I'd heard of a NO_STRIP |> | setting but if it exists, it's not documented. |> |> I think the setting is spelled as 'WITH_DEBUG=yes' which will add '-g' |> and remove stripping. However, it still depends on the ported software |> whether they will strip, most times they will obey the settings (if not |> then it's a bug that should have fixed anyway). | | Hi. | | Yes, that does seem to work. The only problem is that it also disables | any optimization flags (I was hoping to compile with -O2 -g as I don't | need to do in-depth debugging, just have decent stack traces). | | I tried setting CFLAGS to '-O2' but WITH_DEBUG seems to override this, | too. Maybe you want DEBUG_FLAGS='-O2 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -g'? - -- Xin LI http://www.delphij.net/ FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkh+mxoACgkQi+vbBBjt66B/fgCgrenfepYZBy4Hd5zLFCvXv7OF 6J4AnR6O9WqnIMegrp5INv1LdXavYjba =wyq3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From xorquewasp at googlemail.com Thu Jul 17 01:11:40 2008 From: xorquewasp at googlemail.com (xorquewasp@googlemail.com) Date: Thu Jul 17 01:11:48 2008 Subject: do not strip, compile with debugging symbols In-Reply-To: <487E9B1A.4040809@delphij.net> References: <20080716234933.GA85290@logik.internal.network> <487E9466.5010701@delphij.net> <20080717005548.GA51632@logik.internal.network> <487E9B1A.4040809@delphij.net> Message-ID: <20080717011013.GB51632@logik.internal.network> On 20080716 18:06:34, Xin LI wrote: > > Maybe you want DEBUG_FLAGS='-O2 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -g'? > Ah! Yes, thank you very much. I had to remove the quotes, of course (for the benefit of anyone else reading this in future). xw From xorquewasp at googlemail.com Thu Jul 17 03:20:32 2008 From: xorquewasp at googlemail.com (xorquewasp@googlemail.com) Date: Thu Jul 17 03:20:39 2008 Subject: A new kind of security needed Message-ID: <20080717031903.GB98431@logik.internal.network> > Is anyone else nervous trusting all his programs to have access to all > his files? Is there already a reasonable solution to this problem? I suppose it depends what you're after and how much work you're willing to put in. I can't define "reasonable" but certainly, with a bit of work somebody could release a package that automates everything I'm about to outline. I have a setup here using four or five jails built with sysutils/ezjail (so they're very lightweight - nullfs). All jails are bound to unrouteable IPs (127.1.0.*). Packets are forwarded using pf binat with a very paranoid ruleset. Jail 1 is 'untrusted' in the sense that it's used for programs that shouldn't have access to the host filesystem or the network. The principle is that of least privilege - if ANY program doesn't need network access, it's run in this jail. One single hole is opened to allow programs to connect to an X server over tcp/ip running on the host. This of course, opens a potential for snooping on keystrokes and other X clients but this is a risk I don't know how to mitigate at the moment. There are apparently patches for allowing an X server to run jailed but I'd rather wait until they're part of an official release (if ever). I don't enable shared memory for jails. Programs are installed into the 'untrusted' jail and invoked with a shell script that calls "sudo jexec env -i ... $prog" with a minimal environment ($XAUTHORITY, $DISPLAY, etc). An example would be: $ mistrust mplayer /tmp/test.avi Access to /dev/dsp* inside the jail is also added with devfs rules. I considered setting up a means of using passwordless access to sudo but abandoned the idea because I wasn't sure about safety. I transfer files in and out of the jail using rsync. Jail 2 is essentially a copy of the above but as a vnode-backed image jail to prevent a rampant program from filling up the filesystem (the image is fixed size). This jail is solely used for Firefox. The only connections allowed from this jail are outbound to the X server on the host and to a single port on Jail 3. Jail 3 is, again, an image jail copy of Jail 1. It runs a non-caching web proxy (privoxy) and is allowed to freely use the network, except for connecting to other jails or the host. The purpose of this jail is to basically be the gateway to the world for Jail 2. Jail 4 is just an area for building binary packages to distribute to other jails. This way, installation of software in each jail is simplified greatly. This jail is allowed to connect to the outside world without restriction (necessary for fetching of packages). I run portmaster to keep built binary packages up to date, jailaudit to determine when packages need updating in other jails and pkg_replace in each jail to actually update. -- To be blunt, the above is essentially band-aid for a lack of strong, granular, per-process access control to network interfaces and a lack of a flexible per-process dynamic view of the filesystem (plan9). It works well enough that I'm happy to use it, though. xw From xorquewasp at googlemail.com Thu Jul 17 03:30:52 2008 From: xorquewasp at googlemail.com (xorquewasp@googlemail.com) Date: Thu Jul 17 03:30:59 2008 Subject: A new kind of security needed In-Reply-To: <487EB013.9090706@noncombatant.org> References: <487EB013.9090706@noncombatant.org> Message-ID: <20080717032924.GA73476@logik.internal.network> I apologise, I'm completely screwing up today. My reply to this thread was obviously supposed to go to security@. From frtzkatz at yahoo.com Thu Jul 17 04:10:31 2008 From: frtzkatz at yahoo.com (Fritz Katz) Date: Thu Jul 17 04:10:38 2008 Subject: Free Hardware available: HD-5500 PCHDTV Card. Message-ID: <107247.81348.qm@web63001.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Hello FreeBSD-Hackers, I have 3 cards to be given away, $129 value. There is a catch -- you need to volunteer to port the card to FreeBSD and make your modifications publically available. Join and contribute to an open source effort to enable Video4Linux drivers to run on BSD here: http://video4bsd.sourceforge.net/ You will need: - Access to NTSC/ATSC broadcast signals. (US, Canada, S.Korea, ..). - A FreeBSD development system - Also, a Linux development system with Video4Linux and full kernel source for reference might be helpful. The HD-5500 Hi Definition Television PCI Card is an universal PCI 2.2 compliant card. The card receives NTSC, ATSC and Cable/QAM Signals and converts them to digital streams which are transported across the PCI bus. Display and MPEG2 decoding are done on the host computer in software and displayed on the computers monitor. The pcHDTV HD-5500 Hi Definition PCI card is based on the 5th generation LG ATSC receiver chips and Conexant's CX23883 NTSC receiver chip providing excellent HD and SD reception. - Open source drivers and player - Cost effective ATSC/NTSC TV reception card - All-software HDTV decoder - Supports all 18 ATSC compliant digital formats - Supports unencrypted QAM 64 and QAM 256 Cable signals - Supports NTSC Analog Television - Up to 4 cards supported in a single system for recording and ??? display of multiple programs. - Low profile universal PCI card - Latest LG 5th generation tuner for enhanced reception - Digital Video Recording, Time Shifting and Playback - Accelerated HDTV support with nVidia video cards. - Accelerated IDCT and Motion Compensation with GeForce4 Mx cards - Accelerated Motion Compensation with GeForce4 TI cards - Selectable Weave or One Field de-interlacing for interlaced formats - Command line support for station scanning - Command line support for station signal strength - Command line support for recording http://www.pchdtv.com/ ---------------------------------- From marc.loerner at hob.de Thu Jul 17 06:56:51 2008 From: marc.loerner at hob.de (Marc =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6rner?=) Date: Thu Jul 17 06:56:58 2008 Subject: reading a file in kernelmode In-Reply-To: <002d01c8e79e$200078d0$60016a70$@de> References: <002d01c8e79e$200078d0$60016a70$@de> Message-ID: <200807170829.55210.marc.loerner@hob.de> Hello David! On Thursday 17 July 2008 01:46, David wrote: > Hello, > > > > I'm developing a FreeBSD kernel module and I'm searching for a good > solution to open/read/close a file. > > My goal is to generate a MD5-Hash of a given file (path). > > > > Open-Syscall seems to be improper. > > > > Any ideas/solutions/examples? > Look at file kern/kern_ktrace.c at the use of vn_open in function ktrace(td, uap) and VOP_WRITE in function ktr_writerequest(struct thread *td, struct ktr_request *req) I think reading is done quite analogue to writing in case above. HTH, Marc From fernando.apesteguia at gmail.com Thu Jul 17 07:06:29 2008 From: fernando.apesteguia at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Apestegu=EDa?=) Date: Thu Jul 17 07:06:35 2008 Subject: reading a file in kernelmode In-Reply-To: <200807170829.55210.marc.loerner@hob.de> References: <002d01c8e79e$200078d0$60016a70$@de> <200807170829.55210.marc.loerner@hob.de> Message-ID: <1bd550a00807170006m2c5f0be5u24ebe34df74a38ac@mail.gmail.com> On 7/17/08, Marc L?rner wrote: > Hello David! > > On Thursday 17 July 2008 01:46, David wrote: > > Hello, > > > > > > > > I'm developing a FreeBSD kernel module and I'm searching for a good > > solution to open/read/close a file. > > > > My goal is to generate a MD5-Hash of a given file (path). > > > > > > > > Open-Syscall seems to be improper. > > > > > > > > Any ideas/solutions/examples? > > > > Look at file kern/kern_ktrace.c at the use of vn_open in function > ktrace(td, uap) and VOP_WRITE in function > ktr_writerequest(struct thread *td, struct ktr_request *req) > > I think reading is done quite analogue to writing in case above. Hi, I'm just curious, is it proper to read a file from kernel space? Is it something the kernel is supposed to do? Thanks in advance. > > HTH, > Marc > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From danny at cs.huji.ac.il Thu Jul 17 08:03:07 2008 From: danny at cs.huji.ac.il (Danny Braniss) Date: Thu Jul 17 08:03:15 2008 Subject: UPDATE & backdating Message-ID: I don't know if this is the usual case, but I was caught by surprice :-) --- /r+d/7.0/src/UPDATING 2008-02-28 17:28:19.000000000 +0200 +++ /r+d/releng_7/src/UPDATING 2008-07-14 09:07:13.000000000 +0300 @@ -285,6 +285,20 @@ This does not affect those who are using "/dev/dsp". 20061122: + geom(4)'s gmirror(8) class metadata structure has been + rev'd from v3 to v4. If you update across this point and + your metadata is converted for you, you will not be easily + able to downgrade since the /boot/kernel.old/geom_mirror.ko + kernel module will be unable to read the v4 metadata. You + can resolve this by doing from the loader(8) prompt: + + set vfs.root.mountfrom="ufs:/dev/XXX" + + where XXX is the root slice of one of the disks that composed + the mirror (i.e.: /dev/ad0s1a). You can then rebuild + the array the same way you built it originally. + +20061122: The following binaries have been disconnected from the build: mount_devfs, mount_ext2fs, mount_fdescfs, mount_procfs, mount_linprocfs, and mount_std. The functionality of these programs has been @@ -925,4 +939,4 @@ Contact Warner Losh if you have any questions about your use of this document. -$FreeBSD: src/UPDATING,v 1.507.2.5 2008/02/24 05:16:55 kensmith Exp $ +$FreeBSD: src/UPDATING,v 1.507.2.7 2008/07/13 18:11:50 remko Exp $ From hselasky at c2i.net Thu Jul 17 09:10:01 2008 From: hselasky at c2i.net (Hans Petter Selasky) Date: Thu Jul 17 09:10:08 2008 Subject: SYSINIT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200807171011.35988.hselasky@c2i.net> On Wednesday 16 July 2008, Jacky Oh wrote: > Hello, > > I'm insvestigating about KLD's programming, and I cant find in my way wiht > the SYSINIT framework. My problem is that im from spanish, and the SYSINIT > concept is more complex for my as I understand in english. My question is, > anyone can explain to in a less complex form? please, I would be very > grateful, thankzz!! > > I belive that is a kernel trap for link modules and sub-systems, but i > don't sure. The best documentation about it is the charpter 5 of "FreeBSD > Architechture Handbook" Is the best doc but i need a small help..I'm > writing a KLD programming article for a spanish underground magazine. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Hi, Simply put. The sysinit macro expands to a static structure using the "section" attribute which means the data ends up in a separate section after linking. Then the data in the sysinit section is scanned, sorted and executed at boot time or when you load a module. Sysuninit works in a similar way. --HPS From pranavpeshwe at gmail.com Thu Jul 17 09:20:30 2008 From: pranavpeshwe at gmail.com (Pranav Peshwe) Date: Thu Jul 17 09:20:44 2008 Subject: Can I change the device of the "/" mount point at boot time. In-Reply-To: <482257ad0807160031k34980a19na9895f38f125d4e0@mail.gmail.com> References: <482257ad0807141106m679ec19frd853339637d27a2d@mail.gmail.com> <200807151302.30415.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> <482257ad0807142138j1f7b7dd8nda7de865a4616fc0@mail.gmail.com> <200807151538.38285.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> <482257ad0807160031k34980a19na9895f38f125d4e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 1:01 PM, Tapan Chaudhari wrote: > > I am planning to write a block level snapshot driver. > Hi Tapan, Did you check whether any other BSDs have done anything similar ? I'm not sure whether it would be directly helpful but, you might get some hints from their implementation. Just a thought... Best regards, Pranav From danny at cs.huji.ac.il Thu Jul 17 10:12:44 2008 From: danny at cs.huji.ac.il (Danny Braniss) Date: Thu Jul 17 10:12:51 2008 Subject: serial console speed In-Reply-To: <20080703153329.GA58662@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <20080703153329.GA58662@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Message-ID: > On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 05:34:27PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 03:21:14PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: > > > > it seems that there is no way to change the speed/baudrate of the serial > > > > console, for example, by turning it off in /etc/ttys, and running > > > > tip(1) with different speeds has no effect, it always > > > > stays at the kernel configured speed. > > > > > > > > is this by design? > > > > > > Yes. > > > > why? > > > > to add some more 'issues', setting > > hint.sio.1.flags="0x10" > > does the redirection correctly but does not fix the speed to CONSPEED, and > > stays at 9600. (BTW, this used to work). > > The 9600 limitation is out-of-the-box. Despite what may seem logical, > in my experiences the console serial port speed on FreeBSD is "limited" > to a maximum of 9600bps unless you either use the -S flag in > /boot.config (e.g. -S115200), or loader.conf variables to adjust the > speed. > > Others will have to answer your remaining questions. > > > setting the serial speed means, > > compiling correctly btx, pxeboot, kernel, ilo. > > now it seems that any info in /boot.config or /boot/loader.conf is also > > ignored. > > This part is flat out incorrect. You no longer have to rebuild > anything, you can simply place -S115200 in /boot.config and it will > work. I know, because every single one of our production servers > (RELENG_6 through RELENG_7) use this. We **do not** rebuild boot > blocks. ok, need some explanation/rational: when booting via pxeboot, initialy, the BMX & libi386 have the serial port/speed hardcoded (for good reason), and as soon as posible it gets 'corrected' via the configuration files. things get complicated when the bios is uncooperative - e.g: Sunfire X2200/ilo. then, as if by magic, a bios upgrade solved most of the problems! - ofcource, the bios upgrade was triggered by another problem - why is PowerNow! not recognized :-( Oh, btw, you can change the serial speed of the console: sysctl machdep.conspeed=115200 which was the initial question :-). > > Please read this document for my findings. > > http://jdc.parodius.com/freebsd/pxeboot_serial_install.html > > -- > | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | > | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | > | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | > | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | > From jhb at freebsd.org Thu Jul 17 14:25:17 2008 From: jhb at freebsd.org (John Baldwin) Date: Thu Jul 17 14:25:32 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <20080705161614.O19209@fledge.watson.org> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> <20080705161614.O19209@fledge.watson.org> Message-ID: <200807170919.49756.jhb@freebsd.org> On Saturday 05 July 2008 11:22:09 am Robert Watson wrote: > On Sat, 5 Jul 2008, Mike Makonnen wrote: > > > The installer can already install a basic FreeBSD system (including the > > ports collection) from CD, UFS, or DOS partition. I'm currently working on > > getting FTP/HTTP/NFS installation to work. Next on my list after that is > > setting Date and Time Zone. At that stage the installer will be more or less > > feature-complete, and I can start code cleanup, getting it to work on > > additional architectures, etc. I had initially intended to include package > > installation as one of the criteria for feature-completeness, but after > > reading through this thread I've decided not to use sysinstall's package > > installation code and instead write one from scratch once I'm happy with the > > rest of the installer. > > Sounds pretty much in line with what I was looking for. However, I think I > would like to see it be a bit more complete than sysinstall in the area of > geom partition labeling (concat/strip/raid/encryption), and perhaps also ZFS > support. I realize that adds complexity a fair amount, but one of the biggest > areas of feature lack in sysinstall today is that you are basically stuck with > the original BSD partition structure and UFS, whereas we expect increasing > numbers of users to deploy ZFS. We don't have boot support currently, but > being able to set up /data as a ZFS file system would be great. Today, people > have to do an initial install on, say, a small boot partition and then > relabel/deal with the rest of the disk, boot a live CD, or worse, discover > they have to repartition, which really fails to expose some of the excellent > ease-of-use, auto-configuration, etc, features that we otherwise have in this > area. I think the best route to that is to have a separate utility for managing disk partitioning. The installer can then use that utility, and sysadmins can also use it later after the system is installed. -- John Baldwin From jhb at freebsd.org Thu Jul 17 14:25:35 2008 From: jhb at freebsd.org (John Baldwin) Date: Thu Jul 17 14:26:06 2008 Subject: error 1 lba 752976 while booting from USB key to install In-Reply-To: <200807101652.32039.fbsd.hackers@rachie.is-a-geek.net> References: <20080710124658.GA10730@rebelion.Sisis.de> <200807101652.32039.fbsd.hackers@rachie.is-a-geek.net> Message-ID: <200807171001.14552.jhb@freebsd.org> On Thursday 10 July 2008 10:52:31 am Mel wrote: > On Thursday 10 July 2008 14:46:58 Matthias Apitz wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I've some server (a 2 years old HP NAT 1000s storage system) and > > I want to drop the installed W2k system and re-install it with > > FreeBSD 7.0R and later use it as a central backup-system with > > Bacula. > > > > The problem is that this server has no CD or DVD device, but can > > (theoretically) boot from external USB CD/DVD (which I don't have > > either); > > > > so I cam up with the idea to boot from that USB key I have used to > > install 7.0-REL on that eeePC, i.e. the USB key works fine in any > > laptop; on the HP NAT 1000s storage system it says: > > > > FreBSD/i386 > > Default: 0:ad(0,a)/boot/kernel/kernel > > boot: error 1 lba 752976 > > No /boot/kernel/kernel > > Let me ask a stupid question: why is it trying to access an ATA/ATAPI disk, > not an USB (scsi da(4)) disk. Can you boot via: > 0:da(0,a)/boot/kernel/kernel > > Or variants of those, see boot(8) for the syntax explanation. That stuff is all obsolete. For the boot code, all the disks look the same, they are BIOS devices 0x80, 0x81, etc. We just use 0x80 + unit for 'ad' and 'da' and 0 + unit for 'fd'. Before /boot/loader, the 'ad' vs 'da' used to matter as we used that to figure out which driver (and thus which cdev major) to use for / and passed that to the kernel. However, /boot/loader now reads /etc/fstab from / and passes the source of '/' from that as a string to the kernel, so none of the cdev major stuff is needed anymore (and it doesn't work either). The loader handles this better where disks are all called 'disk0', 'disk1', etc. -- John Baldwin From jhb at freebsd.org Thu Jul 17 14:25:41 2008 From: jhb at freebsd.org (John Baldwin) Date: Thu Jul 17 14:26:07 2008 Subject: Pls sanity check my semtimedop(2) implementation In-Reply-To: <78c6bd860807121611w4f6ab44brbebfffea9929682a@mail.gmail.com> References: <78c6bd860807121611w4f6ab44brbebfffea9929682a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200807171005.53148.jhb@freebsd.org> On Saturday 12 July 2008 07:11:26 pm Michael B Allen wrote: > Hi, > > Below is a semtimedop(2) implementation that I'm using for FreeBSD. I > was hoping someone could look it over and tell me if they think the > implementation is sound. > > The code seems to work ok but when stressing the FreeBSD build of my app > I have managed to provoke errors related to concurrency (usually when a > SIGALRM goes off). The Linux build works flawlessesly so I'm wondering > about this one critical function that is different. > > Do you think it would make any difference if I used > ITIMER_VIRTUAL / SIGVTALRM instead of ITIMER_REAL / SIGALRM? > > Or perhaps I should be using a different implementation entirely? What specific races are you seeing? The timer is firing too early, too late? -- John Baldwin From raggen at passagen.se Thu Jul 17 15:38:54 2008 From: raggen at passagen.se (Roger Olofsson) Date: Thu Jul 17 15:39:02 2008 Subject: FreeBSD Best Practice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <487F6067.5000908@passagen.se> Karl Fischer skrev: > Hello > I'm a SysAdmin, I'm wondering whether this is the correct list to ask? > I'm looking for FreeBSD Best Practice information, (or a FreeBSD > Mailing List, I can join) > I want to make sure that all my servers comply to at least some widely > accepted standards, > so in the event of me getting hit by a bus or being abducted by aliens, > another person can take over from me. > > I have done a search through the mailing lists and this seems like the > list to ask. > > Thanks > Karl > Any article/book by Dru Lavigne is always a pleasure to read. Just Google for Dru. /R From kmf at fischer.org.za Thu Jul 17 16:29:02 2008 From: kmf at fischer.org.za (Karl Fischer) Date: Thu Jul 17 16:29:09 2008 Subject: FreeBSD Best Practice In-Reply-To: <487F6067.5000908@passagen.se> References: <487F6067.5000908@passagen.se> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 5:08 PM, Roger Olofsson wrote: > Karl Fischer skrev: >> >> Hello >> I'm a SysAdmin, I'm wondering whether this is the correct list to ask? >> I'm looking for FreeBSD Best Practice information, (or a FreeBSD >> Mailing List, I can join) >> I want to make sure that all my servers comply to at least some widely >> accepted standards, >> so in the event of me getting hit by a bus or being abducted by aliens, >> another person can take over from me. >> >> I have done a search through the mailing lists and this seems like the >> list to ask. >> >> Thanks >> Karl >> > > Any article/book by Dru Lavigne is always a pleasure to read. Just Google > for Dru. > > /R > Dru rocks. :D I find her BSD Hacks quite useful. -- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Fischer |_|0|_| "Absence of evidence |_|_|0| is not evidence of absence" |0|0|0| Carl Sagan - http://fischer.org.za - -------------------------------------------------- From randy at psg.com Thu Jul 17 16:30:20 2008 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Thu Jul 17 16:37:16 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <200807170919.49756.jhb@freebsd.org> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> <20080705161614.O19209@fledge.watson.org> <200807170919.49756.jhb@freebsd.org> Message-ID: <487F7399.6040805@psg.com> > I think the best route to that is to have a separate utility for managing disk > partitioning. The installer can then use that utility, and sysadmins can > also use it later after the system is installed. i often invoke sysinstall on a running system to slice/partition/etc a new drive randy From ioplex at gmail.com Thu Jul 17 17:42:34 2008 From: ioplex at gmail.com (Michael B Allen) Date: Thu Jul 17 17:42:42 2008 Subject: Pls sanity check my semtimedop(2) implementation In-Reply-To: <200807171005.53148.jhb@freebsd.org> References: <78c6bd860807121611w4f6ab44brbebfffea9929682a@mail.gmail.com> <200807171005.53148.jhb@freebsd.org> Message-ID: <78c6bd860807171042o54627c78nfcc0c19717b75f1e@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:05 AM, John Baldwin wrote: > On Saturday 12 July 2008 07:11:26 pm Michael B Allen wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Below is a semtimedop(2) implementation that I'm using for FreeBSD. I >> was hoping someone could look it over and tell me if they think the >> implementation is sound. >> >> The code seems to work ok but when stressing the FreeBSD build of my app >> I have managed to provoke errors related to concurrency (usually when a >> SIGALRM goes off). The Linux build works flawlessesly so I'm wondering >> about this one critical function that is different. >> >> Do you think it would make any difference if I used >> ITIMER_VIRTUAL / SIGVTALRM instead of ITIMER_REAL / SIGALRM? >> >> Or perhaps I should be using a different implementation entirely? > > What specific races are you seeing? The timer is firing too early, too late? It's very difficult to tell. I can only trigger the issue very occasionally running my torture test such that any diagnostic logging changes the results. And at this point I'm not sure my semtimedop implementation is responsible. I have not seen the issue since fixing the race pointed out by Mikko (although I have not tried very hard to provoke it). For now, I'm satisfied since I do not think the issue will be triggered in the wild. I hate to use signals for anything but as much as I try, there's just no other way to implement semtimedop within a single largely self-contained function. In the future I will likely use another process in the application that uses select(2) as an "event service" to post on semaphores after a certain time period. Unfortunately, right now, that service ultimately calls semtimedop so I'll save it for a rainy day. Although if you implemented semtimedop(2) into the FreeBSD API that would work too :-) Thanks, Mike -- Michael B Allen PHP Active Directory SPNEGO SSO http://www.ioplex.com/ From gary.jennejohn at freenet.de Thu Jul 17 18:56:31 2008 From: gary.jennejohn at freenet.de (Gary Jennejohn) Date: Thu Jul 17 18:56:44 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <487F7399.6040805@psg.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> <20080705161614.O19209@fledge.watson.org> <200807170919.49756.jhb@freebsd.org> <487F7399.6040805@psg.com> Message-ID: <20080717205628.237ce4a4@peedub.jennejohn.org> On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 09:30:17 -0700 Randy Bush wrote: > > I think the best route to that is to have a separate utility for managing disk > > partitioning. The installer can then use that utility, and sysadmins can > > also use it later after the system is installed. > > i often invoke sysinstall on a running system to slice/partition/etc a > new drive > [radically trimmed Cc list] sade(8) is supposed to take the place of sysinstall for disk operations. --- Gary Jennejohn From ravi.murty at intel.com Thu Jul 17 19:33:22 2008 From: ravi.murty at intel.com (Murty, Ravi) Date: Thu Jul 17 19:33:28 2008 Subject: atomic_load_acq_int in ipi_nmi_handler() Message-ID: Hello All, Just a quick question: Why does this function (ipi_nmi_handler) execute a atomic_load_acq_int(&ipi_nmi_pending). Following this it calls atomic_clear_int to clear itself out of this mask. I can't think of why the CPU would reorder these instructions knowing there is a dependency here. Also, since FreeBSD has masks (like ipi_nmi_pending), has there been any work on extending this beyond 64 CPUs? Thanks Ravi From julian at elischer.org Thu Jul 17 19:56:32 2008 From: julian at elischer.org (Julian Elischer) Date: Thu Jul 17 19:56:50 2008 Subject: atomic_load_acq_int in ipi_nmi_handler() In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <487FA33B.4010404@elischer.org> Murty, Ravi wrote: > Hello All, > > > > Just a quick question: Why does this function (ipi_nmi_handler) execute > a atomic_load_acq_int(&ipi_nmi_pending). Following this it calls > atomic_clear_int to clear itself out of this mask. I can't think of why > the CPU would reorder these instructions knowing there is a dependency > here. > > > > Also, since FreeBSD has masks (like ipi_nmi_pending), has there been any > work on extending this beyond 64 CPUs? Only in discussion. A quick survey of other OS's and their answers is probably in order. There are cpu bitmasks in use.. We are going to have to look at the whole NUMA thing soon too. (BTW it's only 32 on 32 bit machines I believe) > > > > Thanks > > Ravi > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From jhb at freebsd.org Fri Jul 18 00:18:03 2008 From: jhb at freebsd.org (John Baldwin) Date: Fri Jul 18 00:18:21 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <487F7399.6040805@psg.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <200807170919.49756.jhb@freebsd.org> <487F7399.6040805@psg.com> Message-ID: <200807172013.18535.jhb@freebsd.org> On Thursday 17 July 2008 12:30:17 pm Randy Bush wrote: > > I think the best route to that is to have a separate utility for managing > > disk partitioning. The installer can then use that utility, and > > sysadmins can also use it later after the system is installed. > > i often invoke sysinstall on a running system to slice/partition/etc a > new drive Yes, I have found it nicer than raw bsdlabel in the past, but I think it should be a standalone tool (diskpart or some such) that manages that and that the installer should use that tool rather than the installer having a disk partitioning sub-personality. -- John Baldwin From jhb at freebsd.org Fri Jul 18 00:18:10 2008 From: jhb at freebsd.org (John Baldwin) Date: Fri Jul 18 00:18:22 2008 Subject: Pls sanity check my semtimedop(2) implementation In-Reply-To: <78c6bd860807171042o54627c78nfcc0c19717b75f1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <78c6bd860807121611w4f6ab44brbebfffea9929682a@mail.gmail.com> <200807171005.53148.jhb@freebsd.org> <78c6bd860807171042o54627c78nfcc0c19717b75f1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200807172015.11460.jhb@freebsd.org> On Thursday 17 July 2008 01:42:31 pm Michael B Allen wrote: > On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:05 AM, John Baldwin wrote: > > On Saturday 12 July 2008 07:11:26 pm Michael B Allen wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> Below is a semtimedop(2) implementation that I'm using for FreeBSD. I > >> was hoping someone could look it over and tell me if they think the > >> implementation is sound. > >> > >> The code seems to work ok but when stressing the FreeBSD build of my app > >> I have managed to provoke errors related to concurrency (usually when a > >> SIGALRM goes off). The Linux build works flawlessesly so I'm wondering > >> about this one critical function that is different. > >> > >> Do you think it would make any difference if I used > >> ITIMER_VIRTUAL / SIGVTALRM instead of ITIMER_REAL / SIGALRM? > >> > >> Or perhaps I should be using a different implementation entirely? > > > > What specific races are you seeing? The timer is firing too early, too > > late? > > It's very difficult to tell. I can only trigger the issue very > occasionally running my torture test such that any diagnostic logging > changes the results. > > And at this point I'm not sure my semtimedop implementation is > responsible. I have not seen the issue since fixing the race pointed > out by Mikko (although I have not tried very hard to provoke it). > > For now, I'm satisfied since I do not think the issue will be > triggered in the wild. I hate to use signals for anything but as much > as I try, there's just no other way to implement semtimedop within a > single largely self-contained function. In the future I will likely > use another process in the application that uses select(2) as an > "event service" to post on semaphores after a certain time period. > Unfortunately, right now, that service ultimately calls semtimedop so > I'll save it for a rainy day. > > Although if you implemented semtimedop(2) into the FreeBSD API that > would work too :-) POSIX semaphores (sem_open(3), sem_create(3), etc.) do have a sem_timedwait(3). However, POSIX semaphores have several bugs in 6.x and 7.x (they should work a lot better in 8). If you want I can give you a patch for 6.x or 7.x that backports the 8.x POSIX semaphores. -- John Baldwin From doconnor at gsoft.com.au Fri Jul 18 01:25:53 2008 From: doconnor at gsoft.com.au (Daniel O'Connor) Date: Fri Jul 18 01:26:00 2008 Subject: Can I change the device of the "/" mount point at boot time. In-Reply-To: <482257ad0807160031k34980a19na9895f38f125d4e0@mail.gmail.com> References: <482257ad0807141106m679ec19frd853339637d27a2d@mail.gmail.com> <200807151538.38285.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> <482257ad0807160031k34980a19na9895f38f125d4e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200807181055.41216.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Tapan Chaudhari wrote: > > My first question would be "Why do you want to do that?" > > I am planning to write a block level snapshot driver. OK. You might want to look at geom_journal I guess. > > I think you'd have a lower overhead and much less hassle writing a > > GEOM class and using that. > > This sounds good. I will try using GEOM first. But if I could achieve > interception, as I described earlier, I will go for that rather than > redirection. I think using GEOM is the "Right Way" in FreeBSD for this. -- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 5596 B766 97C0 0E94 4347 295E E593 DC20 7B3F CE8C -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080718/64764c8d/attachment.pgp From ioplex at gmail.com Fri Jul 18 01:54:57 2008 From: ioplex at gmail.com (Michael B Allen) Date: Fri Jul 18 01:55:04 2008 Subject: Pls sanity check my semtimedop(2) implementation In-Reply-To: <200807172015.11460.jhb@freebsd.org> References: <78c6bd860807121611w4f6ab44brbebfffea9929682a@mail.gmail.com> <200807171005.53148.jhb@freebsd.org> <78c6bd860807171042o54627c78nfcc0c19717b75f1e@mail.gmail.com> <200807172015.11460.jhb@freebsd.org> Message-ID: <78c6bd860807171854o6e566b2h6ee3b77008dc541f@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 8:15 PM, John Baldwin wrote: > On Thursday 17 July 2008 01:42:31 pm Michael B Allen wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:05 AM, John Baldwin wrote: >> > On Saturday 12 July 2008 07:11:26 pm Michael B Allen wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> Below is a semtimedop(2) implementation that I'm using for FreeBSD. I >> >> was hoping someone could look it over and tell me if they think the >> >> implementation is sound. >> >> >> >> The code seems to work ok but when stressing the FreeBSD build of my app >> >> I have managed to provoke errors related to concurrency (usually when a >> >> SIGALRM goes off). The Linux build works flawlessesly so I'm wondering >> >> about this one critical function that is different. >> >> >> >> Do you think it would make any difference if I used >> >> ITIMER_VIRTUAL / SIGVTALRM instead of ITIMER_REAL / SIGALRM? >> >> >> >> Or perhaps I should be using a different implementation entirely? >> > >> > What specific races are you seeing? The timer is firing too early, too >> > late? >> >> It's very difficult to tell. I can only trigger the issue very >> occasionally running my torture test such that any diagnostic logging >> changes the results. >> >> And at this point I'm not sure my semtimedop implementation is >> responsible. I have not seen the issue since fixing the race pointed >> out by Mikko (although I have not tried very hard to provoke it). >> >> For now, I'm satisfied since I do not think the issue will be >> triggered in the wild. I hate to use signals for anything but as much >> as I try, there's just no other way to implement semtimedop within a >> single largely self-contained function. In the future I will likely >> use another process in the application that uses select(2) as an >> "event service" to post on semaphores after a certain time period. >> Unfortunately, right now, that service ultimately calls semtimedop so >> I'll save it for a rainy day. >> >> Although if you implemented semtimedop(2) into the FreeBSD API that >> would work too :-) > > POSIX semaphores (sem_open(3), sem_create(3), etc.) do have a > sem_timedwait(3). However, POSIX semaphores have several bugs in 6.x and 7.x > (they should work a lot better in 8). If you want I can give you a patch for > 6.x or 7.x that backports the 8.x POSIX semaphores. I can't ask my customers to patch their systems. But I'll keep it in mind for the future. I don't recall why I chose System V semaphores originally. I think process-shared semantics in the POSIX implementations where not mature at the time. I would love to move away from System V semaphores. It's all too easy to leak them and trying to clean up on restart is dangerous. Mike From randy at psg.com Fri Jul 18 00:21:19 2008 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Fri Jul 18 05:02:57 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <200807172013.18535.jhb@freebsd.org> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <200807170919.49756.jhb@freebsd.org> <487F7399.6040805@psg.com> <200807172013.18535.jhb@freebsd.org> Message-ID: <487FE1FC.7020600@psg.com> John Baldwin wrote: > On Thursday 17 July 2008 12:30:17 pm Randy Bush wrote: >>> I think the best route to that is to have a separate utility for managing >>> disk partitioning. The installer can then use that utility, and >>> sysadmins can also use it later after the system is installed. >> i often invoke sysinstall on a running system to slice/partition/etc a >> new drive > Yes, I have found it nicer than raw bsdlabel in the past, but I think it > should be a standalone tool (diskpart or some such) that manages that and > that the installer should use that tool rather than the installer having a > disk partitioning sub-personality. oh, i agree completely. my point was that i seem to invoke sysinstall when standalone would be more 'normal.' and then i was pointed to sade(8) :) . randy From vince at unsane.co.uk Fri Jul 18 09:46:21 2008 From: vince at unsane.co.uk (Vincent Hoffman) Date: Fri Jul 18 09:46:33 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <20080717205628.237ce4a4@peedub.jennejohn.org> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> <20080705161614.O19209@fledge.watson.org> <200807170919.49756.jhb@freebsd.org> <487F7399.6040805@psg.com> <20080717205628.237ce4a4@peedub.jennejohn.org> Message-ID: <4880666A.6020501@unsane.co.uk> Gary Jennejohn wrote: > On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 09:30:17 -0700 > Randy Bush wrote: > > >>> I think the best route to that is to have a separate utility for managing disk >>> partitioning. The installer can then use that utility, and sysadmins can >>> also use it later after the system is installed. >>> >> i often invoke sysinstall on a running system to slice/partition/etc a >> new drive >> >> > > [radically trimmed Cc list] > > sade(8) is supposed to take the place of sysinstall for disk operations. > > Ahh thats nice to know, might be worth adding to the handbook, I used to use /usr/ports/sysutils/sfdisk but somethng in base beats it. Vince > --- > Gary Jennejohn > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From jilles at stack.nl Fri Jul 18 15:58:58 2008 From: jilles at stack.nl (Jilles Tjoelker) Date: Fri Jul 18 15:59:06 2008 Subject: Pls sanity check my semtimedop(2) implementation In-Reply-To: <78c6bd860807121611w4f6ab44brbebfffea9929682a@mail.gmail.com> References: <78c6bd860807121611w4f6ab44brbebfffea9929682a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080718155856.GA96280@stack.nl> On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 07:11:26PM -0400, Michael B Allen wrote: > Below is a semtimedop(2) implementation that I'm using for FreeBSD. I > was hoping someone could look it over and tell me if they think the > implementation is sound. > [snip semtimedop implementation that uses SIGALRM and relies on EINTR] > The code seems to work ok but when stressing the FreeBSD build of my app > I have managed to provoke errors related to concurrency (usually when a > SIGALRM goes off). The Linux build works flawlessesly so I'm wondering > about this one critical function that is different. In your implementation, the SIGALRM signal may happen before you even call semop(2). If so, most likely the semop(2) will hang arbitrarily long. A somewhat dirty fix is to put a nonzero value into it_interval. This will ensure that if a signal is missed another one will be generated quickly. You might be able to fix this using setjmp/longjmp, but this is neither pretty nor efficient. Another dirty fix is to try non-blocking semop(2) several times with sleeps in between. > Do you think it would make any difference if I used > ITIMER_VIRTUAL / SIGVTALRM instead of ITIMER_REAL / SIGALRM? This does not fix the inherent problem. Also, given your use of signals in the first place, your application must be single threaded. This means the ITIMER_VIRTUAL timer does not run while semop(2) is waiting. -- Jilles Tjoelker From scf at FreeBSD.org Fri Jul 18 16:27:08 2008 From: scf at FreeBSD.org (Sean C. Farley) Date: Fri Jul 18 16:27:14 2008 Subject: Pls sanity check my semtimedop(2) implementation In-Reply-To: <78c6bd860807171854o6e566b2h6ee3b77008dc541f@mail.gmail.com> References: <78c6bd860807121611w4f6ab44brbebfffea9929682a@mail.gmail.com> <200807171005.53148.jhb@freebsd.org> <78c6bd860807171042o54627c78nfcc0c19717b75f1e@mail.gmail.com> <200807172015.11460.jhb@freebsd.org> <78c6bd860807171854o6e566b2h6ee3b77008dc541f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jul 2008, Michael B Allen wrote: *snip* > But I'll keep it in mind for the future. I don't recall why I chose > System V semaphores originally. I think process-shared semantics in > the POSIX implementations where not mature at the time. I would love > to move away from System V semaphores. It's all too easy to leak them > and trying to clean up on restart is dangerous. It is my understanding that process-shared is not currently supported at least in 7. Does anyone know if there is any intention of this being eventually supported? I have needed this in the past but do not need it at the moment. It would be nice to have someday. Sean -- scf@FreeBSD.org From patfbsd at davenulle.org Fri Jul 18 22:58:17 2008 From: patfbsd at davenulle.org (Patrick =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Lamaizi=E8re?=) Date: Fri Jul 18 22:58:24 2008 Subject: crypto(9) and maxoplen Message-ID: <20080719005813.3a995c71@baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local> Hello, In the "opencrypto framework" the function crypto_register() has an argument 'maxoplen'. http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/opencrypto/crypto.c#L625 Does somebody know what was the goal of this parameter? It is not used by the framework. The man page of crypto(9) says : For each algorithm the driver supports, it must then call crypto_register(). The first two arguments are the driver and algorithm identifiers. The next two arguments specify the largest possible operator length (in bits, important for public key operations) and flags for this algorithm. I'm asking if it can help for this problem: the glxsb driver can perform AES-CBC algorithm only with 128 bits key and may be 'maxoplen' was intended for this case. Without something to specify the key's length, the driver is selected by the framework even with keys != 128 bits. So it fails when the session is opened. This prevents setkey/ipsec to work with key length != 128 bits if the driver is loaded. Thanks, regards. From thierry.herbelot at laposte.net Sat Jul 19 05:50:50 2008 From: thierry.herbelot at laposte.net (Thierry Herbelot) Date: Sat Jul 19 05:50:57 2008 Subject: NFS locking from a qemu machine ? Message-ID: <200807190723.47208.thierry.herbelot@laposte.net> Hello, I'm trying to use NFS locking from an NFS client running in a qemu virtual PC to an NFS server running on the host machine, but with no success so far : configuration for the host PC (server) : operating system : FreeBSD 7.0-Stable % cat /etc/exports /shared/ 127.0.0.1 and in /etc/rc.conf : nfs_server_enable="YES" weak_mountd_authentication="YES" # Allow non-root mount requests to be served. rpcbind_enable="YES" # Run the portmapper service (YES/NO). rpc_lockd_enable="YES" # Run NFS rpc.lockd needed for client/server. rpc_statd_enable="YES" # Run NFS rpc.statd needed for client/server. configuration for the qemu machine (client) : operating system : FreeBSD 7.0-Stable in /etc/fstab : 10.0.2.2:/shared /shared nfs rw 0 0 in /etc/rc.conf : nfs_client_enable="YES" # This host is an NFS client (or NO). rpcbind_enable="YES" # Run the portmapper service (YES/NO). rpc_lockd_enable="YES" # Run NFS rpc.lockd needed for client/server. rpc_statd_enable="YES" # Run NFS rpc.statd needed for client/server. I'm using tools/regression/file/flock to check the correct file locking : $ ./flock ../../shared and the client machine seems locked the ethernet traffic between the client and the server when the client is blocked is the following : (the "tunnel" port is the one used by the lockmanager according to rpcinfo) 16:54:47.907919 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48249, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 84) localhost.53807 > localhost.sunrpc: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 56 16:54:47.908030 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48250, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 56) localhost.sunrpc > localhost.53807: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 28 16:54:47.909791 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48251, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 204) localhost.61180 > localhost.tunnel: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 176 16:54:47.909834 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48252, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 92) localhost.790 > localhost.sunrpc: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 64 16:54:47.909932 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48253, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 72) localhost.sunrpc > localhost.790: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 44 16:54:47.909956 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48254, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 140) localhost.790 > localhost.tunnel: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 112 16:55:27.490768 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48255, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 204) localhost.61180 > localhost.tunnel: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 176 16:55:27.490814 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48256, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 140) localhost.790 > localhost.tunnel: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 112 16:56:07.069067 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48257, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 204) localhost.61180 > localhost.tunnel: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 176 16:56:07.069110 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48258, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 140) localhost.790 > localhost.tunnel: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 112 16:56:46.683998 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48276, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 204) localhost.61180 > localhost.tunnel: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 176 16:56:46.684042 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48277, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 140) localhost.790 > localhost.tunnel: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 112 16:57:26.375646 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48281, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 84) localhost.50653 > localhost.sunrpc: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 56 16:57:26.375758 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48282, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 56) localhost.sunrpc > localhost.50653: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 28 16:57:26.376715 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48283, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 204) localhost.63595 > localhost.tunnel: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 176 16:57:26.376755 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48284, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 92) localhost.790 > localhost.sunrpc: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 64 16:57:26.376851 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48285, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 72) localhost.sunrpc > localhost.790: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 44 16:57:26.376874 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48286, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 140) localhost.790 > localhost.tunnel: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 112 16:58:06.271603 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48297, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 204) localhost.63595 > localhost.tunnel: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 176 16:58:06.271647 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48298, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 140) localhost.790 > localhost.tunnel: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 112 16:58:46.178361 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48301, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 204) localhost.63595 > localhost.tunnel: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 176 16:58:46.178409 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48302, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 140) localhost.790 > localhost.tunnel: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 112 16:59:26.115517 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48303, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 204) localhost.63595 > localhost.tunnel: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 176 16:59:26.115563 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 64, id 48304, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 140) localhost.790 > localhost.tunnel: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 112 any idea about bad configuration ? thanks in advance TfH From auryn at zirakzigil.org Sat Jul 19 11:06:54 2008 From: auryn at zirakzigil.org (Giulio Ferro) Date: Sat Jul 19 11:07:00 2008 Subject: multi-ip jail patch on freebsd 7 Message-ID: <4881C486.8040401@zirakzigil.org> Since the multi-ip jail feature isn't yet part of the base system (why???) I was searching the internet for a suitable patch to apply manually. I couldn't find any. The one I found didn't apply cleanly to a 7 system. Can any of you point me to a working multi-ip jail patch? Thanks in advance. From snb at freebsd.org Sat Jul 19 23:43:24 2008 From: snb at freebsd.org (Nick Barkas) Date: Sat Jul 19 23:43:31 2008 Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years In-Reply-To: <486CEEF1.9040702@ultra-secure.de> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <486CEEF1.9040702@ultra-secure.de> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 5:23 PM, Rainer Duffner wrote: > Mass-installation via PXE-booting is a mess (how can you have to pack the > install.cfg file into the mfsroot diskimage???). I have done some work on a tool for rapidly imaging many FreeBSD systems and a set of packages using PXE booting: http://code.google.com/p/farbot/. Farbot uses sysinstall, so it does automatically do things like generating an install.cfg file and putting it into an mfsroot. But I'm definitely also looking forward to a new installer, and hoping it will be easy to control programmatically. Nick From bzeeb-lists at lists.zabbadoz.net Sun Jul 20 09:34:46 2008 From: bzeeb-lists at lists.zabbadoz.net (Bjoern A. Zeeb) Date: Sun Jul 20 09:34:53 2008 Subject: multi-ip jail patch on freebsd 7 In-Reply-To: <4881C486.8040401@zirakzigil.org> References: <4881C486.8040401@zirakzigil.org> Message-ID: <20080720090947.F57089@maildrop.int.zabbadoz.net> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008, Giulio Ferro wrote: > Since the multi-ip jail feature isn't yet part of the base system (why???) > I was searching the internet for a suitable patch to apply manually. > > I couldn't find any. The one I found didn't apply cleanly to a 7 system. > Can any of you point me to a working multi-ip jail patch? freebsd-jail@ would be a better list. I would happily point you at one but my webserver is down at the moment. I hope you can waut anther few days as I am swamped... -- Bjoern A. Zeeb Stop bit received. Insert coin for new game. From ravi.murty at intel.com Sun Jul 20 13:51:25 2008 From: ravi.murty at intel.com (Murty, Ravi) Date: Sun Jul 20 13:51:32 2008 Subject: Bug in calcru in he 6.2 and 6.3 kernels In-Reply-To: <487284CA.4050407@FreeBSD.org> References: <48726193.1080807@FreeBSD.org> <48727E37.30700@delphij.net> <487284CA.4050407@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: Has anyone identified the issue(s) that might be broken in the ULE scheduler in 6.2? I am running a rather simple test - creates 8 threads and runs it on an 8 CPU system (not a whole lot running on the system). When I run it with ULE, it runs slow, very slow sometimes - it's almost like the threads aren't picked to run. When I switch to 4BSD, things run fine. I was wondering if there is something I could look at? I realize it is broken, but I've added lots of stuff to the scheduler (for our project) which I'd have to migrate to ULE in 7.0. I'd like to figure out what might be going on in 6.2 before I spend the time to migrate to 7.0. Thanks Ravi -----Original Message----- From: Kris Kennaway [mailto:kris@FreeBSD.org] Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:04 PM To: d@delphij.net Cc: Murty, Ravi; freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bug in calcru in he 6.2 and 6.3 kernels Xin LI wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Kris Kennaway wrote: > | Murty, Ravi wrote: > |> Hello everyone, > |> > |> > |> > |> Finally found what my last problem was. We were running top in a loop > |> and running some workloads that called sched_bind() to bind threads to > |> specific CPUs. The problem was that (and I am using ULE) sched_bind > |> calls a function to notify another CPU of a thread and then mi_switches > |> out of it. Since mi_switch sets the "oncpu" field of the thread to NOCPU > |> and given the thread is still running, calcru would come in and assert > |> the fact that "If I am running I better no be on NOCPU".. It appears > |> that in other parts of the kernel (e.g. forward_signal) this is > |> acceptable (i.e. it is okay to be running and oncpu is NOCPU). > |> > |> > |> Thanks > |> Ravi > | > | Don't use ULE in 6.x, it's broken and will not be fixed. > > Perhaps we should mark it as broken using #error? After all the ULE > changes in 7.x is amazing and we do not want to have users to obtain bad > impressions from the 6.x versions... > > I am not sure but some explicit warning message saying "ULE has been > revamped in FreeBSD 7.x+ and will not be MFC'ed back to 6.x, please use > SCHED_4BSD or upgrade to 7.x." seems to be better than having them to > pursue the mailing list archive... I would agree with this; if you're happy running unstable and broken scheduler code, you're surely able to update to 7.0 and run stable and working scheduler code :) We should run it past re@ first since it's a change to a stable branch, but it's experimental code so I don't see an issue. Kris From koitsu at FreeBSD.org Sun Jul 20 13:59:00 2008 From: koitsu at FreeBSD.org (Jeremy Chadwick) Date: Sun Jul 20 13:59:08 2008 Subject: Bug in calcru in he 6.2 and 6.3 kernels In-Reply-To: References: <48726193.1080807@FreeBSD.org> <48727E37.30700@delphij.net> <487284CA.4050407@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <20080720135900.GA68132@eos.sc1.parodius.com> On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 06:51:22AM -0700, Murty, Ravi wrote: > Has anyone identified the issue(s) that might be broken in the ULE > scheduler in 6.2? I am running a rather simple test - creates 8 threads > and runs it on an 8 CPU system (not a whole lot running on the system). > When I run it with ULE, it runs slow, very slow sometimes - it's almost > like the threads aren't picked to run. When I switch to 4BSD, things run > fine. I was wondering if there is something I could look at? I realize > it is broken, but I've added lots of stuff to the scheduler (for our > project) which I'd have to migrate to ULE in 7.0. I'd like to figure out > what might be going on in 6.2 before I spend the time to migrate to 7.0. ULE in 7.0 is not the same as in 6.2 -- it was entirely re-written before 7.0 was released. The ULE scheduler in 7.0 is often called "ULE 2.0", to signify that it's not the same ULE scheduler in previous FreeBSD releases. See "New Scheduler: ULE 2.0 / 3.0" here: http://ivoras.sharanet.org/freebsd/freebsd7.html Technical details from the author: http://jeffr-tech.livejournal.com/3729.html The reason the ULE scheduler in 7.0 is not the default scheduler is because the community felt more testing needed to be done. I believe the plan is to have ULE as the default scheduler in 7.1. You should really be running 4BSD on 6.x, and ULE on 7.x (unless you have reason to run 4BSD on 7.x -- and some people do. And no, I don't know the reasons why). -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From ravi.murty at intel.com Sun Jul 20 14:06:20 2008 From: ravi.murty at intel.com (Murty, Ravi) Date: Sun Jul 20 14:06:27 2008 Subject: Bug in calcru in he 6.2 and 6.3 kernels In-Reply-To: <20080720135900.GA68132@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <48726193.1080807@FreeBSD.org> <48727E37.30700@delphij.net> <487284CA.4050407@FreeBSD.org> <20080720135900.GA68132@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Message-ID: Jeremy, thanks. I look forward to switching to ULE in 7.0 and realize that it is a completely new scheduler (I spent some time yesterday looking at it) -- which is my porting effort is much harder than a simple cut and paste. I just wanted to find out if there was something simple I could look at before I spent weeks porting my changes to the scheduler (also I can justify the move to 7.x). I can't figure out why my 8 app threads run so slow -- I am booting the kernel is single user mode with not much else running and my threads do a lot of work and don't really sleep. Thanks Ravi -----Original Message----- From: Jeremy Chadwick [mailto:koitsu@FreeBSD.org] Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 6:59 AM To: Murty, Ravi Cc: Kris Kennaway; d@delphij.net; freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bug in calcru in he 6.2 and 6.3 kernels On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 06:51:22AM -0700, Murty, Ravi wrote: > Has anyone identified the issue(s) that might be broken in the ULE > scheduler in 6.2? I am running a rather simple test - creates 8 threads > and runs it on an 8 CPU system (not a whole lot running on the system). > When I run it with ULE, it runs slow, very slow sometimes - it's almost > like the threads aren't picked to run. When I switch to 4BSD, things run > fine. I was wondering if there is something I could look at? I realize > it is broken, but I've added lots of stuff to the scheduler (for our > project) which I'd have to migrate to ULE in 7.0. I'd like to figure out > what might be going on in 6.2 before I spend the time to migrate to 7.0. ULE in 7.0 is not the same as in 6.2 -- it was entirely re-written before 7.0 was released. The ULE scheduler in 7.0 is often called "ULE 2.0", to signify that it's not the same ULE scheduler in previous FreeBSD releases. See "New Scheduler: ULE 2.0 / 3.0" here: http://ivoras.sharanet.org/freebsd/freebsd7.html Technical details from the author: http://jeffr-tech.livejournal.com/3729.html The reason the ULE scheduler in 7.0 is not the default scheduler is because the community felt more testing needed to be done. I believe the plan is to have ULE as the default scheduler in 7.1. You should really be running 4BSD on 6.x, and ULE on 7.x (unless you have reason to run 4BSD on 7.x -- and some people do. And no, I don't know the reasons why). -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From kris at FreeBSD.org Sun Jul 20 14:13:16 2008 From: kris at FreeBSD.org (Kris Kennaway) Date: Sun Jul 20 14:13:22 2008 Subject: Bug in calcru in he 6.2 and 6.3 kernels In-Reply-To: References: <48726193.1080807@FreeBSD.org> <48727E37.30700@delphij.net> <487284CA.4050407@FreeBSD.org> <20080720135900.GA68132@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Message-ID: <488347FA.7080103@FreeBSD.org> Murty, Ravi wrote: > Jeremy, thanks. I look forward to switching to ULE in 7.0 and realize > that it is a completely new scheduler (I spent some time yesterday > looking at it) -- which is my porting effort is much harder than a > simple cut and paste. I just wanted to find out if there was something > simple I could look at before I spent weeks porting my changes to the > scheduler (also I can justify the move to 7.x). I can't figure out why > my 8 app threads run so slow -- I am booting the kernel is single user > mode with not much else running and my threads do a lot of work and > don't really sleep. Once again, ULE in 6.x is too broken to use, which is why major changes were required to get it to a suitable state in 7.0. It's a shame that you didn't read about this before putting in so much work. Kris From thierry.herbelot at laposte.net Sun Jul 20 17:10:50 2008 From: thierry.herbelot at laposte.net (Thierry Herbelot) Date: Sun Jul 20 17:10:57 2008 Subject: NFS locking from a qemu machine ? In-Reply-To: <200807190723.47208.thierry.herbelot@laposte.net> References: <200807190723.47208.thierry.herbelot@laposte.net> Message-ID: <200807201910.40171.thierry.herbelot@laposte.net> Le Saturday 19 July 2008, Thierry Herbelot a ?crit : > Hello, > > I'm trying to use NFS locking from an NFS client running in a qemu virtual > PC to an NFS server running on the host machine, but with no success so far > : > > configuration for the host PC (server) : > operating system : FreeBSD 7.0-Stable > > % cat /etc/exports > /shared/ 127.0.0.1 > > and in /etc/rc.conf : > nfs_server_enable="YES" > weak_mountd_authentication="YES" # Allow non-root mount requests to be > served. rpcbind_enable="YES" # Run the portmapper service > (YES/NO). rpc_lockd_enable="YES" # Run NFS rpc.lockd needed for > client/server. rpc_statd_enable="YES" # Run NFS rpc.statd needed > for client/server. > > configuration for the qemu machine (client) : > operating system : FreeBSD 7.0-Stable > > in /etc/fstab : > 10.0.2.2:/shared /shared nfs rw 0 0 > > in /etc/rc.conf : > nfs_client_enable="YES" # This host is an NFS client (or NO). > rpcbind_enable="YES" # Run the portmapper service (YES/NO). > rpc_lockd_enable="YES" # Run NFS rpc.lockd needed for > client/server. rpc_statd_enable="YES" # Run NFS rpc.statd needed > for client/server. > > > I'm using tools/regression/file/flock to check the correct file locking : > $ ./flock ../../shared > > and the client machine seems locked > > the ethernet traffic between the client and the server when the client is > blocked is the following : > > (the "tunnel" port is the one used by the lockmanager according to rpcinfo) this is most likely due to misconfiguration, as the nat-ed configuration used for the qemu client does not allow back communication from the server lockd to the client rpcbind. TfH From pjd at FreeBSD.org Sun Jul 20 20:10:22 2008 From: pjd at FreeBSD.org (Pawel Jakub Dawidek) Date: Sun Jul 20 20:10:53 2008 Subject: crypto(9) and maxoplen In-Reply-To: <20080719005813.3a995c71@baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local> References: <20080719005813.3a995c71@baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local> Message-ID: <20080720193955.GA2193@garage.freebsd.pl> On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 12:58:13AM +0200, Patrick Lamaizi?re wrote: > Hello, > > In the "opencrypto framework" the function crypto_register() has an > argument 'maxoplen'. > > http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/opencrypto/crypto.c#L625 > > Does somebody know what was the goal of this parameter? It is not used > by the framework. > > The man page of crypto(9) says : > For each algorithm the driver supports, it must then call > crypto_register(). The first two arguments are the driver and algorithm > identifiers. The next two arguments specify the largest possible > operator length (in bits, important for public key operations) and > flags for this algorithm. > > I'm asking if it can help for this problem: the glxsb driver can > perform AES-CBC algorithm only with 128 bits key and may be 'maxoplen' > was intended for this case. > > Without something to specify the key's length, the driver is selected > by the framework even with keys != 128 bits. So it fails when the > session is opened. This prevents setkey/ipsec to work with key > length != 128 bits if the driver is loaded. If I read code properly, there is currently no way for a driver to say to the opencrypto framework that only AES-CBC with 128bit key is supported. A driver can only state that it supports AES-CBC, that's all. As a workaround the driver should implement AES-CBC-192 and AES-CBC-256 in software. -- Pawel Jakub Dawidek http://www.wheel.pl pjd@FreeBSD.org http://www.FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer Am I Evil? Yes, I Am! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080720/1fc7ce33/attachment.pgp From yanefbsd at gmail.com Mon Jul 21 00:28:27 2008 From: yanefbsd at gmail.com (Garrett Cooper) Date: Mon Jul 21 00:28:33 2008 Subject: Bug in calcru in he 6.2 and 6.3 kernels In-Reply-To: <488347FA.7080103@FreeBSD.org> References: <48726193.1080807@FreeBSD.org> <48727E37.30700@delphij.net> <487284CA.4050407@FreeBSD.org> <20080720135900.GA68132@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <488347FA.7080103@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <7d6fde3d0807201728q4d0fcce5md94af2d69d108c0a@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 7:13 AM, Kris Kennaway wrote: > Murty, Ravi wrote: >> >> Jeremy, thanks. I look forward to switching to ULE in 7.0 and realize >> that it is a completely new scheduler (I spent some time yesterday >> looking at it) -- which is my porting effort is much harder than a >> simple cut and paste. I just wanted to find out if there was something >> simple I could look at before I spent weeks porting my changes to the >> scheduler (also I can justify the move to 7.x). I can't figure out why >> my 8 app threads run so slow -- I am booting the kernel is single user >> mode with not much else running and my threads do a lot of work and >> don't really sleep. > > Once again, ULE in 6.x is too broken to use, which is why major changes were > required to get it to a suitable state in 7.0. It's a shame that you didn't > read about this before putting in so much work. > > Kris Perhaps an $(error ) (don't know the pmake analog) should be put into the kernel Makefile to note that ULE is busted? -Garrett From patfbsd at davenulle.org Mon Jul 21 12:10:03 2008 From: patfbsd at davenulle.org (Patrick =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Lamaizi=E8re?=) Date: Mon Jul 21 12:10:10 2008 Subject: crypto(9) and maxoplen In-Reply-To: <20080720193955.GA2193@garage.freebsd.pl> References: <20080719005813.3a995c71@baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local> <20080720193955.GA2193@garage.freebsd.pl> Message-ID: <20080721141000.03127887@baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local> Le Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:39:55 +0200, Pawel Jakub Dawidek a ?crit : Hello, > > In the "opencrypto framework" the function crypto_register() has an > > argument 'maxoplen'. > > > > http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/opencrypto/crypto.c#L625 > > > > Does somebody know what was the goal of this parameter? It is not > > used by the framework. > > > > The man page of crypto(9) says : > > For each algorithm the driver supports, it must then call > > crypto_register(). The first two arguments are the driver and > > algorithm identifiers. The next two arguments specify the largest > > possible operator length (in bits, important for public key > > operations) and flags for this algorithm. > > > > I'm asking if it can help for this problem: the glxsb driver can > > perform AES-CBC algorithm only with 128 bits key and may be > > 'maxoplen' was intended for this case. > > > > Without something to specify the key's length, the driver is > > selected by the framework even with keys != 128 bits. So it fails > > when the session is opened. This prevents setkey/ipsec to work with > > key length != 128 bits if the driver is loaded. > > If I read code properly, there is currently no way for a driver to say > to the opencrypto framework that only AES-CBC with 128bit key is > supported. A driver can only state that it supports AES-CBC, that's > all. As a workaround the driver should implement AES-CBC-192 and > AES-CBC-256 in software. Yes, but my question is about the maxoplen parameter. Was it intended for this case? Why we keep this parameter? IMHO, It is far easier to hack the OCF to use this parameter than to implement a workaround. It would be a better solution, by sample we may want to use the driver for AES-128 and another hardware that provides AES 192/256. Another (the best?) solution would be for the crypto framework to select another driver if the driver's newsession() fails. Regards. From pjd at FreeBSD.org Mon Jul 21 13:15:28 2008 From: pjd at FreeBSD.org (Pawel Jakub Dawidek) Date: Mon Jul 21 13:15:37 2008 Subject: crypto(9) and maxoplen In-Reply-To: <20080721141000.03127887@baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local> References: <20080719005813.3a995c71@baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local> <20080720193955.GA2193@garage.freebsd.pl> <20080721141000.03127887@baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local> Message-ID: <20080721131525.GC2953@garage.freebsd.pl> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 02:10:00PM +0200, Patrick Lamaizi?re wrote: > Le Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:39:55 +0200, > Pawel Jakub Dawidek a ?crit : > > Hello, > > > > In the "opencrypto framework" the function crypto_register() has an > > > argument 'maxoplen'. > > > > > > http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/opencrypto/crypto.c#L625 > > > > > > Does somebody know what was the goal of this parameter? It is not > > > used by the framework. > > > > > > The man page of crypto(9) says : > > > For each algorithm the driver supports, it must then call > > > crypto_register(). The first two arguments are the driver and > > > algorithm identifiers. The next two arguments specify the largest > > > possible operator length (in bits, important for public key > > > operations) and flags for this algorithm. > > > > > > I'm asking if it can help for this problem: the glxsb driver can > > > perform AES-CBC algorithm only with 128 bits key and may be > > > 'maxoplen' was intended for this case. > > > > > > Without something to specify the key's length, the driver is > > > selected by the framework even with keys != 128 bits. So it fails > > > when the session is opened. This prevents setkey/ipsec to work with > > > key length != 128 bits if the driver is loaded. > > > > If I read code properly, there is currently no way for a driver to say > > to the opencrypto framework that only AES-CBC with 128bit key is > > supported. A driver can only state that it supports AES-CBC, that's > > all. As a workaround the driver should implement AES-CBC-192 and > > AES-CBC-256 in software. > > Yes, but my question is about the maxoplen parameter. Was it intended > for this case? Why we keep this parameter? Can't help here, no idea. Eventhough it isn't something I'd like to see implemented. 'maxoplen' is just a little better than what we have now. And what if a driver supports 192 or 256 bits only? > IMHO, It is far easier to hack the OCF to use this parameter than > to implement a workaround. It would be a better solution, by > sample we may want to use the driver for AES-128 and another > hardware that provides AES 192/256. > > Another (the best?) solution would be for the crypto framework to select > another driver if the driver's newsession() fails. There are many improvements that could be done in opencrypto framework, believe me. One of the things that annoys me a lot is that if you want to use IPsec with a driver that support only encryption, you have to implement hash functions in software for the given driver. Feel free to work on this, but be sure to avoid solutions like this maxoplen thing, which bascially isn't really a step further. Choosing another driver on newsession failure sounds reasonable, although we may lose informations like 'the caller wanted hardware crypto only'. -- Pawel Jakub Dawidek http://www.wheel.pl pjd@FreeBSD.org http://www.FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer Am I Evil? Yes, I Am! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080721/02ce3894/attachment.pgp From sam at freebsd.org Mon Jul 21 16:12:19 2008 From: sam at freebsd.org (Sam Leffler) Date: Mon Jul 21 16:12:25 2008 Subject: crypto(9) and maxoplen In-Reply-To: <20080721131525.GC2953@garage.freebsd.pl> References: <20080719005813.3a995c71@baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local> <20080720193955.GA2193@garage.freebsd.pl> <20080721141000.03127887@baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local> <20080721131525.GC2953@garage.freebsd.pl> Message-ID: <4884B06A.8030701@freebsd.org> Pawel Jakub Dawidek wrote: > On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 02:10:00PM +0200, Patrick Lamaizi?re wrote: > >> Le Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:39:55 +0200, >> Pawel Jakub Dawidek a ?crit : >> >> Hello, >> >> >>>> In the "opencrypto framework" the function crypto_register() has an >>>> argument 'maxoplen'. >>>> >>>> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/opencrypto/crypto.c#L625 >>>> >>>> Does somebody know what was the goal of this parameter? It is not >>>> used by the framework. >>>> >>>> The man page of crypto(9) says : >>>> For each algorithm the driver supports, it must then call >>>> crypto_register(). The first two arguments are the driver and >>>> algorithm identifiers. The next two arguments specify the largest >>>> possible operator length (in bits, important for public key >>>> operations) and flags for this algorithm. >>>> >>>> I'm asking if it can help for this problem: the glxsb driver can >>>> perform AES-CBC algorithm only with 128 bits key and may be >>>> 'maxoplen' was intended for this case. >>>> >>>> Without something to specify the key's length, the driver is >>>> selected by the framework even with keys != 128 bits. So it fails >>>> when the session is opened. This prevents setkey/ipsec to work with >>>> key length != 128 bits if the driver is loaded. >>>> >>> If I read code properly, there is currently no way for a driver to say >>> to the opencrypto framework that only AES-CBC with 128bit key is >>> supported. A driver can only state that it supports AES-CBC, that's >>> all. As a workaround the driver should implement AES-CBC-192 and >>> AES-CBC-256 in software. >>> >> Yes, but my question is about the maxoplen parameter. Was it intended >> for this case? Why we keep this parameter? >> > > Can't help here, no idea. Eventhough it isn't something I'd like to see > implemented. 'maxoplen' is just a little better than what we have now. > And what if a driver supports 192 or 256 bits only? > > >> IMHO, It is far easier to hack the OCF to use this parameter than >> to implement a workaround. It would be a better solution, by >> sample we may want to use the driver for AES-128 and another >> hardware that provides AES 192/256. >> >> Another (the best?) solution would be for the crypto framework to select >> another driver if the driver's newsession() fails. >> > > There are many improvements that could be done in opencrypto framework, > believe me. One of the things that annoys me a lot is that if you want > to use IPsec with a driver that support only encryption, you have to > implement hash functions in software for the given driver. > > Feel free to work on this, but be sure to avoid solutions like this > maxoplen thing, which bascially isn't really a step further. Choosing > another driver on newsession failure sounds reasonable, although we may > lose informations like 'the caller wanted hardware crypto only'. > I've lost track of the history behind maxoplen. As Pawel says a max parameter is only minimally useful in describing device capabilities. My main comment is that I used to consider it important to maintain interoperability w/ obsd for the sake of sharing work. However we've long since diverged such that it's infeasible so revamping api's is fair game. If people want to work on the crypto framework that'd be great; they might also take a look at Thor's netbsd work to improve performance of applications that use /dev/crypto (e.g. openssl). Sam From jhb at freebsd.org Mon Jul 21 20:56:45 2008 From: jhb at freebsd.org (John Baldwin) Date: Mon Jul 21 20:56:53 2008 Subject: Pls sanity check my semtimedop(2) implementation In-Reply-To: References: <78c6bd860807121611w4f6ab44brbebfffea9929682a@mail.gmail.com> <78c6bd860807171854o6e566b2h6ee3b77008dc541f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200807211434.21441.jhb@freebsd.org> On Friday 18 July 2008 12:27:05 pm Sean C. Farley wrote: > On Thu, 17 Jul 2008, Michael B Allen wrote: > > *snip* > > > But I'll keep it in mind for the future. I don't recall why I chose > > System V semaphores originally. I think process-shared semantics in > > the POSIX implementations where not mature at the time. I would love > > to move away from System V semaphores. It's all too easy to leak them > > and trying to clean up on restart is dangerous. > > It is my understanding that process-shared is not currently supported at > least in 7. > > Does anyone know if there is any intention of this being eventually > supported? I have needed this in the past but do not need it at the > moment. It would be nice to have someday. There aren't currently plans, no. -- John Baldwin From yanefbsd at gmail.com Tue Jul 22 06:43:13 2008 From: yanefbsd at gmail.com (Garrett Cooper) Date: Tue Jul 22 06:43:19 2008 Subject: TET and other testing framework for FreeBSD Message-ID: <7d6fde3d0807212343i69526416h35a3d961fac0c9d9@mail.gmail.com> Hi Joseph (and hackers), I'm contacting Joseph primarily because I saw his name listed under the TET page (http://wiki.freebsd.org/TetIntegration) as a contact and was wondering whether or not there was any interest to integrate test suites outside of TET into FreeBSD, but I'm also involving hackers@ because there might be some references that someone can provide me for other @freebsd folks. I ask because my work with LTP (Linux Test Project : http://ltp.sf.net) for Cisco has allowed me some insight into using OpenPOSIX and Ballista testing frameworks, which may prove helpful in the release testing cause, and could help in detecting faults earlier on, thus helping expedite the release process a bit more and increasing confidence and interest in FreeBSD. I'm pretty sure I have the blessings of the Ballista project's principal investigator to relicense it under the BSD / GPL license, it's currently a 'dead project' and he gave his blessings to post the source up on Sourceforge, but I'll double check to make sure I have his AOK before doing so... I'm also working on getting tst_res (1.) dually licensed from the LTP folks with a BSD / GPL license to allow for better inclusion into FreeBSD's infrastructure, to ensure that we have a deterministic means of dealing with testcases and reporting. Just wondering what, if any, interest would be in adopting and applying this work to FreeBSD for the good of the community. Thanks, -Garrett 1. tst_res is a set of uniform whitebox testcase API's that are a part of LTP, currently available in just C-format, but I hope to also add proper bourne shell, Java, Perl, and Python bindings. The source is GPLv2 licensed and currently 'owned' by SGI, so I'm awaiting feedback from them as to whether or not it's OK to relicense the source. From Alexander at Leidinger.net Tue Jul 22 09:11:00 2008 From: Alexander at Leidinger.net (Alexander Leidinger) Date: Tue Jul 22 11:23:29 2008 Subject: TET and other testing framework for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <7d6fde3d0807212343i69526416h35a3d961fac0c9d9@mail.gmail.com> References: <7d6fde3d0807212343i69526416h35a3d961fac0c9d9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080722111038.21404k434075zx8g@webmail.leidinger.net> Quoting "Garrett Cooper" (from Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:43:11 -0700): > Hi Joseph (and hackers), > I'm contacting Joseph primarily because I saw his name listed > under the TET page (http://wiki.freebsd.org/TetIntegration) as a > contact and was wondering whether or not there was any interest to > integrate test suites outside of TET into FreeBSD, but I'm also > involving hackers@ because there might be some references that someone > can provide me for other @freebsd folks. AFAIK there's no TET stuff for FreeBSD available in public. So I would say it's more having regression tests available (making them compile and run on FreeBSD, having a look at the failing tests and see if it is a problem with the test or with FreeBSD ... see below for my experience with the LTP) at all, than integrating them. > I ask because my work with LTP (Linux Test Project : > http://ltp.sf.net) for Cisco has allowed me some insight into using > OpenPOSIX and Ballista testing frameworks, which may prove helpful in > the release testing cause, and could help in detecting faults earlier > on, thus helping expedite the release process a bit more and > increasing confidence and interest in FreeBSD. Do you have any URLs or whatever besides the LTP one (where those are integrated) to get those tests from an official point instead from cutting it out of the LTP? > I'm pretty sure I have the blessings of the Ballista project's > principal investigator to relicense it under the BSD / GPL license, > it's currently a 'dead project' and he gave his blessings to post the > source up on Sourceforge, but I'll double check to make sure I have > his AOK before doing so... I think it would be beneficial so the what this produces on FreeBSD (the license doesn't matter here) before we go and talk about integration (here the license matters). > I'm also working on getting tst_res (1.) dually licensed from > the LTP folks with a BSD / GPL license to allow for better inclusion > into FreeBSD's infrastructure, to ensure that we have a deterministic > means of dealing with testcases and reporting. > Just wondering what, if any, interest would be in adopting and > applying this work to FreeBSD for the good of the community. If this is what is used in the LTP to run some tests, I have to say it does not look mature. I've run the LTP a lot in FreeBSD (native linux binaries, http://wiki.FreeBSD.org/linux-kernel/ltp ... LTP not run and updated the page since a long time) to test the linux compatibility layer, and the are several places where tests fail and no output is produced or even the summary said the test passed. I even opened bug reports at the LTP page on SF, but it seems nobody was interested in those reports. There are also some other ideas, like using the protocol the perl test suites use, to be able to use existing perl stuff to generate reports and overviews out of the generated logs (AFAIR this was the idea behind some changes to the existing regression tests a long time ago). Bye, Alexander. -- I read Playboy for the same reason I read National Geographic. To see the sights I'm never going to visit. http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 From yanefbsd at gmail.com Tue Jul 22 15:31:15 2008 From: yanefbsd at gmail.com (Garrett Cooper) Date: Tue Jul 22 15:31:22 2008 Subject: TET and other testing framework for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20080722111038.21404k434075zx8g@webmail.leidinger.net> References: <7d6fde3d0807212343i69526416h35a3d961fac0c9d9@mail.gmail.com> <20080722111038.21404k434075zx8g@webmail.leidinger.net> Message-ID: <7d6fde3d0807220831u185d6c6dlbb6a92cdbedb6be@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 2:10 AM, Alexander Leidinger wrote: > Quoting "Garrett Cooper" (from Mon, 21 Jul 2008 > 23:43:11 -0700): > >> Hi Joseph (and hackers), >> I'm contacting Joseph primarily because I saw his name listed >> under the TET page (http://wiki.freebsd.org/TetIntegration) as a >> contact and was wondering whether or not there was any interest to >> integrate test suites outside of TET into FreeBSD, but I'm also >> involving hackers@ because there might be some references that someone >> can provide me for other @freebsd folks. > > AFAIK there's no TET stuff for FreeBSD available in public. So I would say > it's more having regression tests available (making them compile and run on > FreeBSD, having a look at the failing tests and see if it is a problem with > the test or with FreeBSD ... see below for my experience with the LTP) at > all, than integrating them. Ok. Sounds like a reasonable requirement for any test infrastructure. >> I ask because my work with LTP (Linux Test Project : >> http://ltp.sf.net) for Cisco has allowed me some insight into using >> OpenPOSIX and Ballista testing frameworks, which may prove helpful in >> the release testing cause, and could help in detecting faults earlier >> on, thus helping expedite the release process a bit more and >> increasing confidence and interest in FreeBSD. > > Do you have any URLs or whatever besides the LTP one (where those are > integrated) to get those tests from an official point instead from cutting > it out of the LTP? I've contacted the PI and he said the the project is essentially dead from his end (not enough resources to maintain, grad students `slaves' left the project and got jobs =), etc). Currently the best way to grab the sources is just to peel away the snapshot from LTP as it's the only publicly and most available copy online (I believe that there've been a few fixes tossed into Ballista as-is). Funny thing is that a lot of groups contributed to the project, it's GPL based, yet nothing has changed in the source for quite some time... >> I'm pretty sure I have the blessings of the Ballista project's >> principal investigator to relicense it under the BSD / GPL license, >> it's currently a 'dead project' and he gave his blessings to post the >> source up on Sourceforge, but I'll double check to make sure I have >> his AOK before doing so... > > I think it would be beneficial so the what this produces on FreeBSD (the > license doesn't matter here) before we go and talk about integration (here > the license matters). Indeed. >> I'm also working on getting tst_res (1.) dually licensed from >> the LTP folks with a BSD / GPL license to allow for better inclusion >> into FreeBSD's infrastructure, to ensure that we have a deterministic >> means of dealing with testcases and reporting. >> Just wondering what, if any, interest would be in adopting and >> applying this work to FreeBSD for the good of the community. > > If this is what is used in the LTP to run some tests, I have to say it does > not look mature. I've run the LTP a lot in FreeBSD (native linux binaries, > http://wiki.FreeBSD.org/linux-kernel/ltp ... LTP not run and updated the > page since a long time) to test the linux compatibility layer, and the are > several places where tests fail and no output is produced or even the > summary said the test passed. I even opened bug reports at the LTP page on > SF, but it seems nobody was interested in those reports. tst_res consists of the functions: tst_res tst_resm tst_brk tst_brkm tst_brkloop tst_brkloopm tst_exit which (thanks to some feedback) has finally made it up onto its own online manpage: http://ltp.sourceforge.net/ltpmantemp.php?file=man3/tst_res.html This is the simple output and behavior modification API's that produce messages like (according to the sample on the manpage): tsttcs01 1 PASS : Able to create MAXUP processes tsttcs01 2 FAIL : Too many processes (MAXUP+1) created tsttcs01 3 BROK : tabinfo(PROCTAB, &tbs) failed; errno = 13: Permission denied tsttcs01 4-10 BROK : Remaining cases broken tsttcs01 0 WARN : cleanup(): kill(0, SIGALRM) failed; errno = 3: No such process > There are also some other ideas, like using the protocol the perl test > suites use, to be able to use existing perl stuff to generate reports and > overviews out of the generated logs (AFAIR this was the idea behind some > changes to the existing regression tests a long time ago). I have yet to really explore Test::Harness, but while I like Perl and I'm sure that Test::Harness is as good as people laud it to be, I find dealing with Perl to be cumbersome as they tend to break some stuff between releases =(... Cheers, -Garrett From yanefbsd at gmail.com Wed Jul 23 06:26:44 2008 From: yanefbsd at gmail.com (Garrett Cooper) Date: Wed Jul 23 06:26:51 2008 Subject: TET and other testing framework for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20080723072122.29891m0id5yoctes@webmail.leidinger.net> References: <7d6fde3d0807212343i69526416h35a3d961fac0c9d9@mail.gmail.com> <20080722111038.21404k434075zx8g@webmail.leidinger.net> <7d6fde3d0807220831u185d6c6dlbb6a92cdbedb6be@mail.gmail.com> <20080723072122.29891m0id5yoctes@webmail.leidinger.net> Message-ID: <7d6fde3d0807222326m3b906d17w76fdb2943d9c38d5@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Alexander Leidinger wrote: > Quoting "Garrett Cooper" (from Tue, 22 Jul 2008 > 08:31:12 -0700): > >> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 2:10 AM, Alexander Leidinger >> wrote: >>> >>> Quoting "Garrett Cooper" (from Mon, 21 Jul 2008 >>> 23:43:11 -0700): > >>>> I'm also working on getting tst_res (1.) dually licensed from >>>> the LTP folks with a BSD / GPL license to allow for better inclusion >>>> into FreeBSD's infrastructure, to ensure that we have a deterministic >>>> means of dealing with testcases and reporting. >>>> Just wondering what, if any, interest would be in adopting and >>>> applying this work to FreeBSD for the good of the community. >>> >>> If this is what is used in the LTP to run some tests, I have to say it >>> does >>> not look mature. I've run the LTP a lot in FreeBSD (native linux >>> binaries, >>> http://wiki.FreeBSD.org/linux-kernel/ltp ... LTP not run and updated the >>> page since a long time) to test the linux compatibility layer, and the >>> are >>> several places where tests fail and no output is produced or even the >>> summary said the test passed. I even opened bug reports at the LTP page >>> on >>> SF, but it seems nobody was interested in those reports. >> >> tst_res consists of the functions: >> >> tst_res >> tst_resm >> tst_brk >> tst_brkm >> tst_brkloop >> tst_brkloopm >> tst_exit >> >> which (thanks to some feedback) has finally made it up onto its own >> online manpage: >> >> http://ltp.sourceforge.net/ltpmantemp.php?file=man3/tst_res.html >> >> This is the simple output and behavior modification API's that produce >> messages like (according to the sample on the manpage): >> >> tsttcs01 1 PASS : Able to create MAXUP processes >> tsttcs01 2 FAIL : Too many processes (MAXUP+1) created >> tsttcs01 3 BROK : tabinfo(PROCTAB, &tbs) failed; errno = >> 13: Permission denied >> tsttcs01 4-10 BROK : Remaining cases broken >> tsttcs01 0 WARN : cleanup(): kill(0, SIGALRM) failed; errno >> = 3: No such process > > And this is where I've seen problems while testing the linux compatibility > layer in FreeBSD. Some tests said PASS when in reality they didn't pass but > died. I don't know if this is fixed now, it's been a while when I reported > this. Yeah, and I've seen tests hang on LTP, but that's because people don't monitor test execution but just claim that since it works, it's fine. I try to keep abreast of these things because test quality's important; otherwise your results are worth no more than a $2 bill! >>> There are also some other ideas, like using the protocol the perl test >>> suites use, to be able to use existing perl stuff to generate reports and >>> overviews out of the generated logs (AFAIR this was the idea behind some >>> changes to the existing regression tests a long time ago). >> >> I have yet to really explore Test::Harness, but while I like Perl and >> I'm sure that Test::Harness is as good as people laud it to be, I find >> dealing with Perl to be cumbersome as they tend to break some stuff >> between releases =(... > > I don't know if I was clear, the tests themself are written in C (or > whatever) and not in perl, the goal as I remember it was to be able to use > the already existing perl tools where we don't care about the development, > as someone else will fix broken things because it is used for perl itself. > > Bye, > Alexander. Hmmm... I've also been forced into working with Python nose lately, and while I might not be a Python officiando, I do find the framework to be expeditious and simple to use. Just another thought, because Python seems to be a better base framework... -Garrett From frank at exit.com Thu Jul 24 14:34:34 2008 From: frank at exit.com (Frank Mayhar) Date: Thu Jul 24 14:34:47 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? Message-ID: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, sigh, so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't read -mobile). My criteria: * 3D acceleration. * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it anyway). * At least 15" screen. * Decent power consumption. * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. Nice to have: * Dual core. * >4GB memory. * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my breath). So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it for the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after ordering/installing it. -- Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com http://www.exit.com/ Exit Consulting http://www.gpsclock.com/ http://www.exit.com/blog/frank/ http://www.zazzle.com/fmayhar* From zam4ever at gmail.com Thu Jul 24 15:04:32 2008 From: zam4ever at gmail.com (Zamri Besar) Date: Thu Jul 24 15:55:21 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:34 PM, Frank Mayhar wrote: > My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, sigh, > so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from > this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't > read -mobile). > > My criteria: > * 3D acceleration. > * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it > anyway). > * At least 15" screen. > * Decent power consumption. > * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. > > Nice to have: > * Dual core. > * >4GB memory. > * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my > breath). > > So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it for > the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after > ordering/installing it. > > If cost is not a big problem, then IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad Series (I prefer T-series) is the best from my past experiences. And you may check following articles for further tips/advices: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/laptop/index.html http://laptop.bsdgroup.de/freebsd/ http://tuxmobil.org/mobile_bsd.html and off-course, freebsd-mobile archive: http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-mobile -- Thank you. -zamri- From koitsu at FreeBSD.org Thu Jul 24 20:21:41 2008 From: koitsu at FreeBSD.org (Jeremy Chadwick) Date: Thu Jul 24 20:21:48 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> Message-ID: <20080724202140.GA2893@eos.sc1.parodius.com> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:39:22PM +0800, Zamri Besar wrote: > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:34 PM, Frank Mayhar wrote: > > > My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, sigh, > > so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from > > this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't > > read -mobile). > > > > My criteria: > > * 3D acceleration. > > * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it > > anyway). > > * At least 15" screen. > > * Decent power consumption. > > * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. > > > > Nice to have: > > * Dual core. > > * >4GB memory. > > * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my > > breath). > > > > So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it for > > the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after > > ordering/installing it. > > > > > > If cost is not a big problem, then IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad Series (I prefer > T-series) is the best from my past experiences. And you may check following > articles for further tips/advices: > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/laptop/index.html > http://laptop.bsdgroup.de/freebsd/ > http://tuxmobil.org/mobile_bsd.html > > and off-course, freebsd-mobile archive: > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-mobile And if you go with Lenovo, be aware that their T60/T60p/T61/T61p series (and possibly the X-series) are known to sport very high temperatures. Some people have reported temperatures of nearly 90C on their GPU (when idling), which has a direct effect on the overall temperature of the CPU (due to close proximity) and so on. This requires the fan to be on at almost all times (usually low-speed mode). Others have it worse (the laptop literally shutting off in the middle of operation): http://unix.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/FreeBSD/stable/2008-06/msg00020.html Many of these laptops emit a strange high-pitch electrical noise which fluxuates in frequency and amplitude; of course, a lot of people can't hear it, which is good for them. This was tracked down to some power saving features listed in the BIOS (of both the CPU and the chipset), which you can disable: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problem_with_high_pitch_noises Be sure to look at http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T60p, specifically the very bottom of the page. You'll notice a very large number of problem entries. A lot of them have no real response from Lenovo. Draw your own conclusions. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From auryn at zirakzigil.org Thu Jul 24 20:47:35 2008 From: auryn at zirakzigil.org (Giulio Ferro) Date: Thu Jul 24 20:47:43 2008 Subject: multi-ip jail patch on freebsd 7 In-Reply-To: <20080720090947.F57089@maildrop.int.zabbadoz.net> References: <4881C486.8040401@zirakzigil.org> <20080720090947.F57089@maildrop.int.zabbadoz.net> Message-ID: <4888EA5D.1050704@zirakzigil.org> Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: >> Since the multi-ip jail feature isn't yet part of the base system >> (why???) >> I was searching the internet for a suitable patch to apply manually. >> >> I couldn't find any. The one I found didn't apply cleanly to a 7 system. >> Can any of you point me to a working multi-ip jail patch? > > freebsd-jail@ would be a better list. > > I would happily point you at one but my webserver is down at the > moment. I hope you can waut anther few days as I am swamped... > Thanks anyway, I'll ask there... From matheus at eternamente.info Thu Jul 24 21:31:03 2008 From: matheus at eternamente.info (Nenhum_de_Nos) Date: Thu Jul 24 21:58:16 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <20080724202140.GA2893@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <20080724202140.GA2893@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Message-ID: <6052d0c1b836ba4c65d70293dc6488e1.squirrel@cygnus.homeunix.com> On Thu, July 24, 2008 17:21, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:39:22PM +0800, Zamri Besar wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:34 PM, Frank Mayhar wrote: >> >> > My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, >> sigh, >> > so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from >> > this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't >> > read -mobile). >> > >> > My criteria: >> > * 3D acceleration. >> > * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it >> > anyway). >> > * At least 15" screen. >> > * Decent power consumption. >> > * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. >> > >> > Nice to have: >> > * Dual core. >> > * >4GB memory. >> > * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my >> > breath). >> > >> > So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it >> for >> > the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after >> > ordering/installing it. >> > >> > >> >> If cost is not a big problem, then IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad Series (I prefer >> T-series) is the best from my past experiences. And you may check >> following >> articles for further tips/advices: >> >> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/laptop/index.html >> http://laptop.bsdgroup.de/freebsd/ >> http://tuxmobil.org/mobile_bsd.html >> >> and off-course, freebsd-mobile archive: >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-mobile > > And if you go with Lenovo, be aware that their T60/T60p/T61/T61p series > (and possibly the X-series) are known to sport very high temperatures. > Some people have reported temperatures of nearly 90C on their GPU (when > idling), which has a direct effect on the overall temperature of the CPU > (due to close proximity) and so on. This requires the fan to be on at > almost all times (usually low-speed mode). Others have it worse (the > laptop literally shutting off in the middle of operation): > > http://unix.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/FreeBSD/stable/2008-06/msg00020.html > > Many of these laptops emit a strange high-pitch electrical noise which > fluxuates in frequency and amplitude; of course, a lot of people can't > hear it, which is good for them. This was tracked down to some power > saving features listed in the BIOS (of both the CPU and the chipset), > which you can disable: > http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problem_with_high_pitch_noises > > Be sure to look at http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T60p, > specifically the very bottom of the page. You'll notice a very large > number of problem entries. A lot of them have no real response from > Lenovo. > > Draw your own conclusions. > > -- > | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | > | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | > | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | > | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-mobile > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-mobile-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" My Asus F3T behaves very alike. The GPU gets too much hot and then everything else suffers. Although I never saw any temperature based forced shutdown, I can't say its impossible. Well, I read in the net that Turions are really much hotter, but when running windows and some linux it is not that hot. apart from this, and the last year harddisk load_cycle-will-kill-your-hd bug, everything but the sound volume works fine. Atheros wifi is ok, nfe based ethernet is ok, just never had any device to test bluetooth. the nVidia vga also runs fine. matheus -- We will call you cygnus, The God of balance you shall be From unk.nown at unix.net Thu Jul 24 22:42:49 2008 From: unk.nown at unix.net (jt) Date: Thu Jul 24 22:57:44 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <6052d0c1b836ba4c65d70293dc6488e1.squirrel@cygnus.homeunix.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <20080724202140.GA2893@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <6052d0c1b836ba4c65d70293dc6488e1.squirrel@cygnus.homeunix.com> Message-ID: <9f8af95f0807241542p1954fe67pff35966f495c9618@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 5:04 PM, Nenhum_de_Nos wrote: > > On Thu, July 24, 2008 17:21, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:39:22PM +0800, Zamri Besar wrote: > >> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:34 PM, Frank Mayhar wrote: > >> > >> > My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, > >> sigh, > >> > so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from > >> > this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't > >> > read -mobile). > >> > > >> > My criteria: > >> > * 3D acceleration. > >> > * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it > >> > anyway). > >> > * At least 15" screen. > >> > * Decent power consumption. > >> > * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. > >> > > >> > Nice to have: > >> > * Dual core. > >> > * >4GB memory. > >> > * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my > >> > breath). > >> > > >> > So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it > >> for > >> > the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after > >> > ordering/installing it. > >> > > >> > > >> > >> If cost is not a big problem, then IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad Series (I prefer > >> T-series) is the best from my past experiences. And you may check > >> following > >> articles for further tips/advices: > >> > >> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/laptop/index.html > >> http://laptop.bsdgroup.de/freebsd/ > >> http://tuxmobil.org/mobile_bsd.html > >> > >> and off-course, freebsd-mobile archive: > >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-mobile > > > > And if you go with Lenovo, be aware that their T60/T60p/T61/T61p series > > (and possibly the X-series) are known to sport very high temperatures. > > Some people have reported temperatures of nearly 90C on their GPU (when > > idling), which has a direct effect on the overall temperature of the CPU > > (due to close proximity) and so on. This requires the fan to be on at > > almost all times (usually low-speed mode). Others have it worse (the > > laptop literally shutting off in the middle of operation): > > > > > http://unix.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/FreeBSD/stable/2008-06/msg00020.html > > > > Many of these laptops emit a strange high-pitch electrical noise which > > fluxuates in frequency and amplitude; of course, a lot of people can't > > hear it, which is good for them. This was tracked down to some power > > saving features listed in the BIOS (of both the CPU and the chipset), > > which you can disable: > > http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problem_with_high_pitch_noises > > > > Be sure to look at http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T60p, > > specifically the very bottom of the page. You'll notice a very large > > number of problem entries. A lot of them have no real response from > > Lenovo. > > > > Draw your own conclusions. > > > > -- > > | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | > > | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | > > | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | > > | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-mobile > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-mobile-unsubscribe@freebsd.org > " > > My Asus F3T behaves very alike. The GPU gets too much hot and then > everything else suffers. Although I never saw any temperature based forced > shutdown, I can't say its impossible. Well, I read in the net that Turions > are really much hotter, but when running windows and some linux it is not > that hot. > > apart from this, and the last year harddisk load_cycle-will-kill-your-hd > bug, everything but the sound volume works fine. Atheros wifi is ok, nfe > based ethernet is ok, just never had any device to test bluetooth. the > nVidia vga also runs fine. > > matheus > > > -- > We will call you cygnus, > The God of balance you shall be > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > all, I'm currently running a lenovo x61 tablet without much complaint -- i *do* notice that it gets hot from time to time -- its much better if its run on desk rather than a lap ;p -- ACPI is still a little shaky -- if you plan on getting a iwi miniPCI -- namely 4965 and the like there IS a driver for it and it currently is in -CURRENT -- you can also patch this to 7.0 with the perforce code -- both of those should be readily available on the freebsd page wiki -- i would recommend tracking current if i were on a laptop since more things are getting merged in the development and i find freebsd moving towards a more mobile and desktop world even though we are still focused on servers -- i expect you will not get sleep working since its easier i find for it to sleep than wake up -- thinkpads seem to work well and in my experience i find more and more programmers and open source oriented people getting them -- the nature of the projects sort of make people write code and drivers for the hardware that they have instead of just randomly supporting other machines -- subscribing to the acpi list might not be a bad idea -- i would poke them as well for a few hints if suspend is a huge deal for you -- hope this helps a bit respectfully -- jt From gaijin.k at gmail.com Fri Jul 25 00:48:43 2008 From: gaijin.k at gmail.com (Alexandre "Sunny" Kovalenko) Date: Fri Jul 25 01:00:24 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> Message-ID: <1216945181.1179.23.camel@RabbitsDen> On Thu, 2008-07-24 at 22:39 +0800, Zamri Besar wrote: > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:34 PM, Frank Mayhar wrote: > > > My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, sigh, > > so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from > > this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't > > read -mobile). > > > > My criteria: > > * 3D acceleration. > > * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it > > anyway). > > * At least 15" screen. > > * Decent power consumption. > > * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. > > > > Nice to have: > > * Dual core. > > * >4GB memory. > > * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my > > breath). > > > > So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it for > > the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after > > ordering/installing it. > > > > > > If cost is not a big problem, then IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad Series (I prefer > T-series) is the best from my past experiences. And you may check following As someone who used (and use) 360, 701C, T30, T42p, X60 and T61p, I wholeheartedly agree with "past experiences"... with "past" being a key word. While I could not complain about FreeBSD support (none of the FreeBSD problems I have are ThinkPad-specific), manufacturing quality has gone down considerably. My not-two-years-old X60 chipped in places and my wife's 8-months-old T61p is no longer capable of keeping the screen upright. This is in the stark contrast with T42p I (ab)used for $work for more than three years, with the only visible outcome being loss of the caption on the "Enter" key. Battery on my X60 died few weeks past 1-year warranty ;-( Just 2c worth of the data points. -- Alexandre "Sunny" Kovalenko (????????? ?????????) From alex.wilkinson at dsto.defence.gov.au Fri Jul 25 06:26:44 2008 From: alex.wilkinson at dsto.defence.gov.au (Wilkinson, Alex) Date: Fri Jul 25 06:26:51 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <1216945181.1179.23.camel@RabbitsDen> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <1216945181.1179.23.camel@RabbitsDen> Message-ID: <20080725055135.GN53966@stlux503.dsto.defence.gov.au> >> If cost is not a big problem, then IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad Series (I prefer >> T-series) is the best from my past experiences. And you may check following >As someone who used (and use) 360, 701C, T30, T42p, X60 and T61p, I >wholeheartedly agree with "past experiences"... with "past" being a key >word. While I could not complain about FreeBSD support (none of the >FreeBSD problems I have are ThinkPad-specific), manufacturing quality >has gone down considerably. My not-two-years-old X60 chipped in places >and my wife's 8-months-old T61p is no longer capable of keeping the >screen upright. This is in the stark contrast with T42p I (ab)used for >$work for more than three years, with the only visible outcome being >loss of the caption on the "Enter" key. So if Thinkpads are no longer the go ... what is ? -aW IMPORTANT: This email remains the property of the Australian Defence Organisation and is subject to the jurisdiction of section 70 of the CRIMES ACT 1914. If you have received this email in error, you are requested to contact the sender and delete the email. From koitsu at FreeBSD.org Fri Jul 25 06:44:36 2008 From: koitsu at FreeBSD.org (Jeremy Chadwick) Date: Fri Jul 25 06:44:43 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <20080725055135.GN53966@stlux503.dsto.defence.gov.au> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <1216945181.1179.23.camel@RabbitsDen> <20080725055135.GN53966@stlux503.dsto.defence.gov.au> Message-ID: <20080725064436.GA64711@eos.sc1.parodius.com> On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 01:51:35PM +0800, Wilkinson, Alex wrote: > >> If cost is not a big problem, then IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad Series (I prefer > >> T-series) is the best from my past experiences. And you may check following > >As someone who used (and use) 360, 701C, T30, T42p, X60 and T61p, I > >wholeheartedly agree with "past experiences"... with "past" being a key > >word. While I could not complain about FreeBSD support (none of the > >FreeBSD problems I have are ThinkPad-specific), manufacturing quality > >has gone down considerably. My not-two-years-old X60 chipped in places > >and my wife's 8-months-old T61p is no longer capable of keeping the > >screen upright. This is in the stark contrast with T42p I (ab)used for > >$work for more than three years, with the only visible outcome being > >loss of the caption on the "Enter" key. > > So if Thinkpads are no longer the go ... what is ? "I'm buying a new computer, what should I buy?" Buy whatever suits your needs, and feels comfortable for you. I'd recommend, if at all possible, going to a major computer store or electronics outlet and trying out a Lenovo. Spend 30 minutes with it. I realise you can't run FreeBSD on them, but get a feel for the machine itself -- if the keyboard works well with your fingers, if you like the mixed touchpad/fingertip mouse, if it feels sturdy to you, if you like the LCD, etc... Example: I really did not like the weight of the T60p. I'm a cyclist and do not drive, so hauling a laptop around means I prefer it to be light. My employer requires that all the T60ps use the larger battery, which plays a significant role. I tried a smaller model (I believe one with a 14" screen), and the weight was wonderful -- but after 20 minutes of use, I started experiencing headaches and nausea. The backlighting on the LCD was the cause, while I had no such problems using the T60p. My point is, you gotta use the machine for a little bit (even if in Windows) and get a feel for it. I know this is hard to do when most vendors nowadays expect people to just click-and-buy, but when spending that kind of money on something, it's worth trying first. With regards to OS compatibility, this is a difficult one. Googling to see what other people have experienced is pretty much the only option, or you get to find out yourself. Ideally in this day and age, you shouldn't have to worry about "hardware compatibility" with an OS; the OS should work with what you have, not the other way around. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From aggelidis.news at gmail.com Fri Jul 25 10:36:38 2008 From: aggelidis.news at gmail.com (Aggelidis Nikos) Date: Fri Jul 25 10:36:45 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <20080725064436.GA64711@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <1216945181.1179.23.camel@RabbitsDen> <20080725055135.GN53966@stlux503.dsto.defence.gov.au> <20080725064436.GA64711@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Message-ID: <30fc78250807250336n4f52b0d0vd087fe01d1f940e6@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 9:44 AM, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > > "I'm buying a new computer, what should I buy?" > > Buy whatever suits your needs, and feels comfortable for you. > > With regards to OS compatibility, this is a difficult one. Googling to > see what other people have experienced is pretty much the only option, > or you get to find out yourself. But this is the reason Frank asks which computer to buy. I don't think he is expecting to be told about the weight of a laptop; he can figure this himself. But how can you figure OS compatibility from 20minutes test drive? That's why you ask for other persons experiences. Personally if i were to buy a laptop right now, i would buy one that would be fully compatible with bsd or linux even if this meant paying a few more euros or getting something heavier... Unfortunately this kind of info {OS-- compatibility} isn't advertised, or written in specs. >From my perspective freebsd should "advertise"(*) the laptops that work with it, out of the box, so that new users {like me} know what to buy; and large corporations have a benefit for promoting OS compatibility other than Windows(tm). -best regards nikos (*) when i say advertise , i mean make this info publicly available and easily accessible from the website From koitsu at FreeBSD.org Fri Jul 25 11:18:52 2008 From: koitsu at FreeBSD.org (Jeremy Chadwick) Date: Fri Jul 25 11:18:58 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <30fc78250807250336n4f52b0d0vd087fe01d1f940e6@mail.gmail.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <1216945181.1179.23.camel@RabbitsDen> <20080725055135.GN53966@stlux503.dsto.defence.gov.au> <20080725064436.GA64711@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <30fc78250807250336n4f52b0d0vd087fe01d1f940e6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080725111851.GA76361@eos.sc1.parodius.com> On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 01:36:37PM +0300, Aggelidis Nikos wrote: > On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 9:44 AM, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > > > > "I'm buying a new computer, what should I buy?" > > > > Buy whatever suits your needs, and feels comfortable for you. > > > > > With regards to OS compatibility, this is a difficult one. Googling to > > see what other people have experienced is pretty much the only option, > > or you get to find out yourself. > > But this is the reason Frank asks which computer to buy. I don't think > he is expecting to be told about the weight of a laptop; he can figure > this himself. But how can you figure OS compatibility from 20minutes > test drive? That's why you ask for other persons experiences. > Personally if i were to buy a laptop right now, i would buy one that > would be fully compatible with bsd or linux even if this meant paying > a few more euros or getting something heavier... Unfortunately this > kind of info {OS-- compatibility} isn't advertised, or written in > specs. > > >From my perspective freebsd should "advertise"(*) the laptops that > work with it, out of the box, so that new users {like me} know what to > buy; and large corporations have a benefit for promoting OS > compatibility other than Windows(tm). > > > -best regards > nikos > > (*) when i say advertise , i mean make this info publicly available > and easily accessible from the website You really have no idea to what granularity/extreme laptop vendors make changes to their laptops. Do not, even for a moment, think that any time they make a hardware modification that they change a model number or increase a version number: they don't. Hell, it's hard enough getting ASIC manufacturers to do this (Realtek I'm looking at you). Here's a real example: do you know how many actual hardware revisions/models of the T60p there are, just in the United States? Let's look: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/homeLenovo.do?country=us Select "Notebooks and Handhelds" from the pulldown. For Family, select "ThinkPad T60p". Now look at how many entries there are under Type. Choose one. Now look at how many entries there are under Model. Now do you still feel what you want is reasonable? :-) I understand where it is you're coming from -- you essentially want the same thing Microsoft totes with their "Certified for " logos on hardware -- which as I'm sure you also know amounts to nothing more than marketing schmooze. User X would report that FreeBSD works on their laptop, but then 3 months later, user Y would report feature doesn't work on their laptop, which then amounts to "is laptop really compatible with FreeBSD?" Etc. etc... I'm sure you see where I'm coming from. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From peterjeremy at optushome.com.au Fri Jul 25 13:00:42 2008 From: peterjeremy at optushome.com.au (Peter Jeremy) Date: Fri Jul 25 13:00:49 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <30fc78250807250336n4f52b0d0vd087fe01d1f940e6@mail.gmail.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <1216945181.1179.23.camel@RabbitsDen> <20080725055135.GN53966@stlux503.dsto.defence.gov.au> <20080725064436.GA64711@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <30fc78250807250336n4f52b0d0vd087fe01d1f940e6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080725130038.GT74748@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> On 2008-Jul-25 13:36:37 +0300, Aggelidis Nikos wrote: >From my perspective freebsd should "advertise"(*) the laptops that >work with it, out of the box, so that new users {like me} know what to >buy; Who do you suggest is going to do this? Buying one of every type of laptop, installing (or working out how to install) FreeBSD and checking which bits of the laptop do/don't work with which version of FreeBSD is an expensive exercise in both time and effort. The best that exists at present is http://laptop.bsdgroup.de/freebsd/ - but it suffers from the problem that by the time someone has bought a laptop and checked it out, that model is obsolete. In my case, I bought my laptop because I knew someone who had the identical model. > and large corporations have a benefit for promoting OS >compatibility other than Windows(tm). The vendors don't seem interested in doing this - I suspect that they are pressured not to support anything other than Winbloze (you might notice that two very high profile Linux-only laptops have recently grown Winbloze variants). Successive generations of laptops have become less and less free-OS-friendly. -- Peter Jeremy Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080725/6f8e7463/attachment.pgp From joerg at britannica.bec.de Fri Jul 25 14:40:57 2008 From: joerg at britannica.bec.de (Joerg Sonnenberger) Date: Fri Jul 25 14:41:06 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <20080725130038.GT74748@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <1216945181.1179.23.camel@RabbitsDen> <20080725055135.GN53966@stlux503.dsto.defence.gov.au> <20080725064436.GA64711@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <30fc78250807250336n4f52b0d0vd087fe01d1f940e6@mail.gmail.com> <20080725130038.GT74748@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20080725141758.GA20940@britannica.bec.de> On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:00:38PM +1000, Peter Jeremy wrote: > Successive generations of laptops have become less and less > free-OS-friendly. This is simply wrong. Most laptops ship either with Ati or Intel chipset. Both tend to be well supported. With a bit care, you will get wpi as wireless chipset (e.g. avoid draft n). I found ACPI compliance to have improved a lot over the recent time and in fact the number of ACPI bugs that can't be worked around in general ways has become very low. Joerg From rwatson at FreeBSD.org Fri Jul 25 14:56:12 2008 From: rwatson at FreeBSD.org (Robert Watson) Date: Fri Jul 25 14:56:19 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <20080724202140.GA2893@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <20080724202140.GA2893@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Message-ID: <20080725155502.Q21557@fledge.watson.org> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > And if you go with Lenovo, be aware that their T60/T60p/T61/T61p series (and > possibly the X-series) are known to sport very high temperatures. Some > people have reported temperatures of nearly 90C on their GPU (when idling), > which has a direct effect on the overall temperature of the CPU (due to > close proximity) and so on. This requires the fan to be on at almost all > times (usually low-speed mode). Others have it worse (the laptop literally > shutting off in the middle of operation): Likewise, I've had difficulty with the z60t, which has suspend issues (it doesn't), and occasional atheros flakiness that I have been meaning to bug Sam about but haven't had time to do so as yet. Sadly, the battery failed quite quickly once the warranty expired, so I barely use it anymore, which is something of a shame but left me with a bad impression. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge > > http://unix.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/FreeBSD/stable/2008-06/msg00020.html > > Many of these laptops emit a strange high-pitch electrical noise which > fluxuates in frequency and amplitude; of course, a lot of people can't > hear it, which is good for them. This was tracked down to some power > saving features listed in the BIOS (of both the CPU and the chipset), > which you can disable: > http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problem_with_high_pitch_noises > > Be sure to look at http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T60p, > specifically the very bottom of the page. You'll notice a very large > number of problem entries. A lot of them have no real response from > Lenovo. > > Draw your own conclusions. > > -- > | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | > | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | > | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | > | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From strontium90 at gmail.com Fri Jul 25 18:03:28 2008 From: strontium90 at gmail.com (Razmig K) Date: Fri Jul 25 18:03:34 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <20080725120020.A428F106569E@hub.freebsd.org> References: <20080725120020.A428F106569E@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: <488A0EF0.6020402@gmail.com> How about Dell models which come with Ubuntu preinstalled? (Inspiron 1525N and 1420N, XPS M1330). Don't they have higher chances of running FreeBSD smoothly? A quick glance over the hardware notes of 7.0-RELEASE and some googling around show that wireless, video and audio are supported. //rk From zbeeble at gmail.com Fri Jul 25 20:07:49 2008 From: zbeeble at gmail.com (Zaphod Beeblebrox) Date: Fri Jul 25 20:07:56 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <488A0EF0.6020402@gmail.com> References: <20080725120020.A428F106569E@hub.freebsd.org> <488A0EF0.6020402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5f67a8c40807251307q5eac959an48de528ab89d663d@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 1:35 PM, Razmig K wrote: > How about Dell models which come with Ubuntu preinstalled? (Inspiron 1525N > and 1420N, XPS M1330). Don't they have higher chances of running FreeBSD > smoothly? A quick glance over the hardware notes of 7.0-RELEASE and some > googling around show that wireless, video and audio are supported. > One problem with most of the Dell offerings is that they use the NVidia video chipset. Now this is a plus if you're into playing a few games, but it sucks if you're running FreeBSD. One of the original requests was for >4G RAM. The NVidia binary driver only works on IA32, not AMD64 (and the opensource driver sucks at even 2D), so your RAM is practically limited to around 3.5G (depending on a few things). I also havn't seen very many laptops advertising >4G yet (4G, but not more than 4G). Personally, I have the XPS-1730. Largely I tolerate the slow binary driver for AMD64. I use IA32 when I need wine, but my use of ZFS (the 1730 has an option for 2 hard drives) seems to eat up kernel memory until wine can't start pretty quickly. The opensource driver does work and supports nice things like DPMS ---- it's just that the 2D acceleration feels very lacking and it also can't do things like scale a movie at full frame rate. This means that I tend to reboot into windoze for entertainment ... since I can't generally use IA32 mode productively anyways. Other than the video and the fact that I've never seen a Dell suspend successfully under FreeBSD, The laptop is well supported. The PCI express slots and their contents (USB or PCI) show up fine. Even the EVDO broadband modem is fairly easy to suppport. I think the only feature without any support is the SD card reader. From koitsu at FreeBSD.org Fri Jul 25 21:25:40 2008 From: koitsu at FreeBSD.org (Jeremy Chadwick) Date: Fri Jul 25 21:25:47 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <488A0EF0.6020402@gmail.com> References: <20080725120020.A428F106569E@hub.freebsd.org> <488A0EF0.6020402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080725212540.GA8159@eos.sc1.parodius.com> On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 08:35:44PM +0300, Razmig K wrote: > How about Dell models which come with Ubuntu preinstalled? (Inspiron > 1525N and 1420N, XPS M1330). Don't they have higher chances of running > FreeBSD smoothly? A quick glance over the hardware notes of 7.0-RELEASE > and some googling around show that wireless, video and audio are > supported. A co-worker of mine has a Dell (I forget which model; I'll ask him this coming week), running Kubuntu. The overall compatibility is quite good, and I haven't heard any complaints from him. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From strontium90 at gmail.com Fri Jul 25 21:27:45 2008 From: strontium90 at gmail.com (Razmig K) Date: Fri Jul 25 21:27:51 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <5f67a8c40807251307q5eac959an48de528ab89d663d@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080725120020.A428F106569E@hub.freebsd.org> <488A0EF0.6020402@gmail.com> <5f67a8c40807251307q5eac959an48de528ab89d663d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <488A44E6.80907@gmail.com> Zaphod Beeblebrox a ?crit : > On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 1:35 PM, Razmig K > wrote: > > How about Dell models which come with Ubuntu preinstalled? (Inspiron > 1525N and 1420N, XPS M1330). Don't they have higher chances of > running FreeBSD smoothly? A quick glance over the hardware notes of > 7.0-RELEASE and some googling around show that wireless, video and > audio are supported. > > > One problem with most of the Dell offerings is that they use the NVidia > video chipset. Now this is a plus if you're into playing a few games, > but it sucks if you're running FreeBSD. One of the original requests > was for >4G RAM. The NVidia binary driver only works on IA32, not AMD64 > (and the opensource driver sucks at even 2D), so your RAM is practically > limited to around 3.5G (depending on a few things). > [...] > ---- it's just that the 2D > acceleration feels very lacking and it also can't do things like scale a > movie at full frame rate. The aforementioned Dell models offer the Intel graphics accelerator X3100 as an option, which appears to be supported pretty well on both 32 and 64 bit architectures. A fairly recent thread at PC-BSD forums reports successful use of Compiz Fusion (albeit on Ubuntu Gutsy) with this accelerator: http://forums.pcbsd.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=10936&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a //rk From chuckr at telenix.org Fri Jul 25 21:39:46 2008 From: chuckr at telenix.org (Chuck Robey) Date: Fri Jul 25 21:39:53 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <5f67a8c40807251307q5eac959an48de528ab89d663d@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080725120020.A428F106569E@hub.freebsd.org> <488A0EF0.6020402@gmail.com> <5f67a8c40807251307q5eac959an48de528ab89d663d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <488A4826.7040509@telenix.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: > On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 1:35 PM, Razmig K wrote: > >> How about Dell models which come with Ubuntu preinstalled? (Inspiron 1525N >> and 1420N, XPS M1330). Don't they have higher chances of running FreeBSD >> smoothly? A quick glance over the hardware notes of 7.0-RELEASE and some >> googling around show that wireless, video and audio are supported. >> > > One problem with most of the Dell offerings is that they use the NVidia > video chipset. Now this is a plus if you're into playing a few games, but > it sucks if you're running FreeBSD. There is a problem is you're running the AMD64 chipsets, but I'm running a quad core processor here, and my Nvidia card (8600GTS) with it's compiled Nvidia driver works just fine. One of the original requests was for >> 4G RAM. The NVidia binary driver only works on IA32, not AMD64 (and the > opensource driver sucks at even 2D), so your RAM is practically limited to > around 3.5G (depending on a few things). I also havn't seen very many > laptops advertising >4G yet (4G, but not more than 4G). > > Personally, I have the XPS-1730. Largely I tolerate the slow binary driver > for AMD64. I use IA32 when I need wine, but my use of ZFS (the 1730 has an > option for 2 hard drives) seems to eat up kernel memory until wine can't > start pretty quickly. The opensource driver does work and supports nice > things like DPMS ---- it's just that the 2D acceleration feels very lacking > and it also can't do things like scale a movie at full frame rate. This > means that I tend to reboot into windoze for entertainment ... since I can't > generally use IA32 mode productively anyways. > > Other than the video and the fact that I've never seen a Dell suspend > successfully under FreeBSD, The laptop is well supported. The PCI express > slots and their contents (USB or PCI) show up fine. Even the EVDO broadband > modem is fairly easy to suppport. I think the only feature without any > support is the SD card reader. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiKSCYACgkQz62J6PPcoOmb/ACdGHfxU4Rpt9k9UaYYc6X2UpFD TQkAnA0hlM1UwzDJMUpAe72zJIGQ0vBN =95ZS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From lists at jnielsen.net Fri Jul 25 22:15:28 2008 From: lists at jnielsen.net (John Nielsen) Date: Fri Jul 25 22:15:37 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> Message-ID: <200807251802.23984.lists@jnielsen.net> On Thursday 24 July 2008, Frank Mayhar wrote: > My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, sigh, > so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from > this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't > read -mobile). I haven't played with one hands-on, but the laptop I was going to buy until $work supplied a different one was a Fujitsu Lifebook E8410. It has a few customization options if you get it from Fujitsu directly. Among these are Intel graphics and Atheros wireless, 2 of the main things I was looking for for good FreeBSD hw support. > My criteria: > * 3D acceleration. check ought to work w/ intel(4x) driver on i386 or amd64 > * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it > anyway). AFAIK. I was planning to select the Atheros option and leave it.. > * At least 15" screen. 15.4 Wide with WSXGA+ option > * Decent power consumption. Unknown, but available 8-cell main and 6-cell modular batteries. > * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. AFAIK. > Nice to have: > * Dual core. check. > * >4GB memory. =4GB avail. (can you get more on a laptop yet?) > * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my > breath). unknown. has any progress been made WRT suspend/resume + SMP on FreeBSD in general? > > So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it for > the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after > ordering/installing it. Best of luck and do post your experiences. JN From faber at ISI.EDU Fri Jul 25 22:24:18 2008 From: faber at ISI.EDU (Ted Faber) Date: Fri Jul 25 22:26:13 2008 Subject: Intel Q35 works (patch attached) Message-ID: <20080725221320.GA2214@zod.isi.edu> Skipped content of type multipart/mixed-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080725/2f89a846/attachment.pgp From mezz7 at cox.net Fri Jul 25 22:42:45 2008 From: mezz7 at cox.net (Jeremy Messenger) Date: Fri Jul 25 22:42:57 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:34:32 -0500, Frank Mayhar wrote: > My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, sigh, > so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from > this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't > read -mobile). > > My criteria: > * 3D acceleration. > * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it > anyway). > * At least 15" screen. > * Decent power consumption. > * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. > > Nice to have: > * Dual core. > * >4GB memory. > * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my > breath). > > So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it for > the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after > ordering/installing it. Maybe you can wait for this: http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html I didn't compare your requirements in there, thought. Cheers, Mezz -- mezz7@cox.net - mezz@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD GNOME Team http://www.FreeBSD.org/gnome/ - gnome@FreeBSD.org From outbackdingo at gmail.com Sat Jul 26 04:21:10 2008 From: outbackdingo at gmail.com (Outback Dingo) Date: Sat Jul 26 04:21:17 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> Message-ID: <5635aa0d0807252121la3c7e00s41829d373c8878d5@mail.gmail.com> IBM Z series, my Z60M Titanium, runs great and still actually looks brand new being 2+ years old the X, T and Z series laptops are all decent, i cant say on quality, im still using the one i got almost three years ago with no issues. 1680x1050 on a 15'4 wide wcreen is nice also. I also have an Asus that i really havent had any issues with quite honestly. And can also say from field experience Fujitsus got some decent models available. Though take note, I dont abuse my mobile equiptment. Another way you might want to consider is a UMPC known to run FreeBSD. there are some sub-size and UMPC systems out there that will run FreeBSD nicely, ASUS makes one, and well personally im waiting on the HTC Shift to be delivered and hacked On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 5:23 AM, Jeremy Messenger wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:34:32 -0500, Frank Mayhar wrote: > > My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, sigh, >> so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from >> this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't >> read -mobile). >> >> My criteria: >> * 3D acceleration. >> * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it >> anyway). >> * At least 15" screen. >> * Decent power consumption. >> * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. >> >> Nice to have: >> * Dual core. >> * >4GB memory. >> * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my >> breath). >> >> So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it for >> the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after >> ordering/installing it. >> > > Maybe you can wait for this: > > http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html > > I didn't compare your requirements in there, thought. > > Cheers, > Mezz > > > -- > mezz7@cox.net - mezz@FreeBSD.org > FreeBSD GNOME Team > http://www.FreeBSD.org/gnome/ - gnome@FreeBSD.org > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From frank at exit.com Sun Jul 27 00:56:33 2008 From: frank at exit.com (Frank Mayhar) Date: Sun Jul 27 00:56:45 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <200807251802.23984.lists@jnielsen.net> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <200807251802.23984.lists@jnielsen.net> Message-ID: <1217120187.37762.7.camel@jill.exit.com> On Fri, 2008-07-25 at 18:02 -0400, John Nielsen wrote: > On Thursday 24 July 2008, Frank Mayhar wrote: > > My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, sigh, > > so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from > > this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't > > read -mobile). Turns out the issue is a known problem, although one that Dell is apparently refusing to own up to, with overheating causing problems with the power connector on the 5150 and 5160 motherboards and often with other nearby components as well. Annoying, and makes me want to stay away from Dell. > I haven't played with one hands-on, but the laptop I was going to buy until > $work supplied a different one was a Fujitsu Lifebook E8410. It has a few > customization options if you get it from Fujitsu directly. Among these are > Intel graphics and Atheros wireless, 2 of the main things I was looking for > for good FreeBSD hw support. After reading all the replies I'm actually taking your suggestion and going with Fujitsu, specifically the E8420. I'm getting the NVidia option and I'll be running in i386 mode until FreeBSD can handle the nvidia requirements for amd64 mode. Atheros wireless, WSXGA+ option and 2GB upgradable to 4. I'll keep my fingers crossed with regard to working suspend/resume but again I'm not holding my breath. They claim that with the 8-cell main and 6-cell modular battery it has a 5:30 runtime; we'll see. -- Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com http://www.exit.com/ Exit Consulting http://www.gpsclock.com/ http://www.exit.com/blog/frank/ http://www.zazzle.com/fmayhar* From zbeeble at gmail.com Sun Jul 27 21:23:47 2008 From: zbeeble at gmail.com (Zaphod Beeblebrox) Date: Sun Jul 27 21:24:00 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <1217120187.37762.7.camel@jill.exit.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <200807251802.23984.lists@jnielsen.net> <1217120187.37762.7.camel@jill.exit.com> Message-ID: <5f67a8c40807271423t3dc1e89bn7295b9af9fa0eda5@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 8:56 PM, Frank Mayhar wrote: > After reading all the replies I'm actually taking your suggestion and > going with Fujitsu, specifically the E8420. I'm getting the NVidia > option and I'll be running in i386 mode until FreeBSD can handle the > nvidia requirements for amd64 mode. Atheros wireless, WSXGA+ option and > 2GB upgradable to 4. I'll keep my fingers crossed with regard to > working suspend/resume but again I'm not holding my breath. They claim > that with the 8-cell main and 6-cell modular battery it has a 5:30 > runtime; we'll see. Having had several fujitsu's before the current run of Dell laptops, I always found them better than average for FreeBSD support. Even (last one I had) suspending to RAM. The Dells I've currently been buying are very high end models and my impression of Dell is that their cheap models are not worth bothering with, their middle of the price range models are mostly acceptable with some lemons and their high end systems are very well done. That said, an OS-level suspend-to-disk would be an awesome summer-of-code project. I was thinking that beyond swapping everything out (probably easy enough) and providing a clue to a newly booted OS that the processes had to be reactiveated, we'd need a method of remembering what file handles were connected to so that they could be "reopened" (in this, I envision some type of text string... maybe a URI/URL). As a bonus, this would give us process migration between systems, too (assuming the URI were portable between self same systems --- which isn't horribly hard with nfs mounts and whatnot). From joerg at britannica.bec.de Sun Jul 27 21:43:31 2008 From: joerg at britannica.bec.de (Joerg Sonnenberger) Date: Sun Jul 27 21:43:38 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <5f67a8c40807271423t3dc1e89bn7295b9af9fa0eda5@mail.gmail.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <200807251802.23984.lists@jnielsen.net> <1217120187.37762.7.camel@jill.exit.com> <5f67a8c40807271423t3dc1e89bn7295b9af9fa0eda5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080727214330.GA1694@britannica.bec.de> On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 05:23:46PM -0400, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: > That said, an OS-level suspend-to-disk would be an awesome summer-of-code > project. I don't think it is feasible as SoC project without previous knowledge and interaction with at least the ACPI suspend-to-RAM code (or alternative the low-level boot code) and VM knowledge (both MI and MD). I believe it can be done in 3 month though. Joerg From zbeeble at gmail.com Sun Jul 27 22:40:41 2008 From: zbeeble at gmail.com (Zaphod Beeblebrox) Date: Sun Jul 27 22:40:47 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <20080727214330.GA1694@britannica.bec.de> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <200807251802.23984.lists@jnielsen.net> <1217120187.37762.7.camel@jill.exit.com> <5f67a8c40807271423t3dc1e89bn7295b9af9fa0eda5@mail.gmail.com> <20080727214330.GA1694@britannica.bec.de> Message-ID: <5f67a8c40807271540m3e1354d8s4e8d10e7f101afac@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Joerg Sonnenberger wrote: > On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 05:23:46PM -0400, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: > > That said, an OS-level suspend-to-disk would be an awesome summer-of-code > > project. > > I don't think it is feasible as SoC project without previous knowledge > and interaction with at least the ACPI suspend-to-RAM code (or > alternative the low-level boot code) and VM knowledge (both MI and MD). > I believe it can be done in 3 month though. Actually, the point I was tryinng to make is that the os implemented suspend-to-disk doesn't need any knowledge of ACPI or any other dependancies. VM knowledge, yes. Some inventive design for (re) opening file handles and other system resources... but the mess that is ACPI doesn't seem to be needed for this. From v.werth at bally-wulff.de Mon Jul 28 07:00:26 2008 From: v.werth at bally-wulff.de (Werth, Volker) Date: Mon Jul 28 07:00:33 2008 Subject: Intel Q35 works (patch attached) In-Reply-To: <20080725221320.GA2214@zod.isi.edu> References: <20080725221320.GA2214@zod.isi.edu> Message-ID: <200301010118.21433.v.werth@bally-wulff.de> Volker Werth schrieb am 28.07.2008 09:00 _____________________________________________________________________ Am Samstag, 26. Juli 2008 00:13 schrieb Ted Faber: > Some recent work in the AGP drivers seems to have combined to make > FreeBSD support the Intel Q35 in my Intel Optiplex 755. Attached is a > one-line patch to enable detection of the chipset (really moving a > comment character). It would be great if someone would commit it. > > If no one notices this mail, I'll file a pr. > > Thanks! Ted, yes, please file a PR (the recommended way). -- Volker Werth system engineering Bally Wulff Entertainment GmbH Maybachufer 48-51 12045 Berlin, Germany ph: +49(30)62002-109 Bally Wulff Entertainment GmbH, Maybachufer 48-51, 12045 Berlin, Postanschrift: Postfach 44 01 57, 12001 Berlin Tel.: 030-620 02-0 FAX: 030-620 02-200, Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Sascha Blodau, Wolfram J. Seiffert, Tim Wittenbecher, Amtsgericht Berlin-Charlottenburg, HRB 91532 B, UST-ID DE 234 517 998 _____________________________________________________________________ Dieses E-Mail ist nur f?r den Empf?nger bestimmt, an den es gerichtet ist und kann vertrauliches bzw. unter das Berufsgeheimnis fallendes Material enthalten. Jegliche darin enthaltene Ansicht oder Meinungs- ?u?erung ist die des Autors und stellt nicht notwendigerweise die Ansicht oder Meinung von Bally Wulff Entertainment GmbH dar. Sind Sie nicht der Empf?nger, so haben Sie diese E-Mail irrt?mlich erhalten und jegliche Verwendung, Ver?ffentlichung, Weiterleitung, Abschrift oder jeglicher Druck dieser E-Mail ist strengstens untersagt. Weder Bally Wulff Entertainment GmbH noch der Absender (Volker Werth) ?bernehmen die Haftung f?r Viren; es obliegt Ihrer Verantwortung, die E-Mail und deren 0 Anh?nge auf Viren zu pr?fen. 0 Anh?nge: _____________________________________________________________________ Versand am 28.07.2008 09:00 von Werth Volker From samflanker at gmail.com Mon Jul 28 12:36:26 2008 From: samflanker at gmail.com (sam) Date: Mon Jul 28 12:36:34 2008 Subject: forcefsck on booting stage Message-ID: <488DB785.3020805@gmail.com> Hello, How to make 'fsck -f' on booting stage of remote system? /Vladimir Ermakov From koitsu at FreeBSD.org Mon Jul 28 13:00:57 2008 From: koitsu at FreeBSD.org (Jeremy Chadwick) Date: Mon Jul 28 13:01:22 2008 Subject: forcefsck on booting stage In-Reply-To: <488DB785.3020805@gmail.com> References: <488DB785.3020805@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080728130057.GA798@eos.sc1.parodius.com> On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 04:11:49PM +0400, sam wrote: > Hello, > > How to make 'fsck -f' on booting stage of remote system? I believe by setting background_fsck="no" in /etc/rc.conf? That's the only way I know of, besides booting single user and doing it manually. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From marc.loerner at hob.de Mon Jul 28 13:09:07 2008 From: marc.loerner at hob.de (Marc =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6rner?=) Date: Mon Jul 28 13:09:17 2008 Subject: forcefsck on booting stage In-Reply-To: <20080728130057.GA798@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <488DB785.3020805@gmail.com> <20080728130057.GA798@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Message-ID: <200807281510.12070.marc.loerner@hob.de> On Monday 28 July 2008 15:00, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 04:11:49PM +0400, sam wrote: > > Hello, > > > > How to make 'fsck -f' on booting stage of remote system? > > I believe by setting background_fsck="no" in /etc/rc.conf? That's the > only way I know of, besides booting single user and doing it manually. Doesn't this only disable background fsck support? By creating file "/forcefsck" you can force an fsck at next reboot, because some scripts test for existence. HTH, Marc Loerner From fbsd06 at mlists.homeunix.com Mon Jul 28 14:48:47 2008 From: fbsd06 at mlists.homeunix.com (RW) Date: Mon Jul 28 14:48:54 2008 Subject: forcefsck on booting stage In-Reply-To: <200807281510.12070.marc.loerner@hob.de> References: <488DB785.3020805@gmail.com> <20080728130057.GA798@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <200807281510.12070.marc.loerner@hob.de> Message-ID: <20080728153204.567bb54c@gumby.homeunix.com.> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:10:11 +0200 Marc L__rner wrote: > On Monday 28 July 2008 15:00, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 04:11:49PM +0400, sam wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > How to make 'fsck -f' on booting stage of remote system? > > > > I believe by setting background_fsck="no" in /etc/rc.conf? That's > > the only way I know of, besides booting single user and doing it > > manually. > > Doesn't this only disable background fsck support? > By creating file "/forcefsck" you can force an fsck at next reboot, > because some scripts test for existence. That's in linux AFAIK, but it would be fairly straightforward to modify /etc/rc.d/fsck to get that behaviour though. fsck -f is interactive, so you would want to add the -y option to prevent its hanging waiting for console input. From pawel.worach at gmail.com Mon Jul 28 15:36:19 2008 From: pawel.worach at gmail.com (Pawel Worach) Date: Mon Jul 28 15:36:26 2008 Subject: forcefsck on booting stage In-Reply-To: <20080728153204.567bb54c@gumby.homeunix.com.> References: <488DB785.3020805@gmail.com> <20080728130057.GA798@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <200807281510.12070.marc.loerner@hob.de> <20080728153204.567bb54c@gumby.homeunix.com.> Message-ID: <488DE14B.2040103@gmail.com> RW wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:10:11 +0200 > Marc L__rner wrote: > >> On Monday 28 July 2008 15:00, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: >>> On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 04:11:49PM +0400, sam wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> How to make 'fsck -f' on booting stage of remote system? >>> I believe by setting background_fsck="no" in /etc/rc.conf? That's >>> the only way I know of, besides booting single user and doing it >>> manually. >> Doesn't this only disable background fsck support? >> By creating file "/forcefsck" you can force an fsck at next reboot, >> because some scripts test for existence. > > That's in linux AFAIK, but it would be fairly straightforward to > modify /etc/rc.d/fsck to get that behaviour though. > > fsck -f is interactive, so you would want to add the -y option to > prevent its hanging waiting for console input. > That is what fsck_y_enable="YES" is for. -- Pawel From faber at ISI.EDU Mon Jul 28 16:14:29 2008 From: faber at ISI.EDU (Ted Faber) Date: Mon Jul 28 16:14:36 2008 Subject: Intel Q35 works (patch attached) In-Reply-To: <200301010118.21433.v.werth@bally-wulff.de> References: <20080725221320.GA2214@zod.isi.edu> <200301010118.21433.v.werth@bally-wulff.de> Message-ID: <20080728161303.GA3591@zod.isi.edu> On Wed, Jan 01, 2003 at 01:18:21AM +0100, Werth, Volker wrote: > Volker Werth schrieb am 28.07.2008 09:00 > _____________________________________________________________________ > > Am Samstag, 26. Juli 2008 00:13 schrieb Ted Faber: > > Some recent work in the AGP drivers seems to have combined to make > > FreeBSD support the Intel Q35 in my Intel Optiplex 755. Attached is a > > one-line patch to enable detection of the chipset (really moving a > > comment character). It would be great if someone would commit it. > > > > If no one notices this mail, I'll file a pr. > > > > Thanks! > > Ted, > > yes, please file a PR (the recommended way). I'll send one this afternoon. Thanks. -- Ted Faber http://www.isi.edu/~faber PGP: http://www.isi.edu/~faber/pubkeys.asc Unexpected attachment on this mail? See http://www.isi.edu/~faber/FAQ.html#SIG -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080728/60794256/attachment.pgp From ady at freebsd.ady.ro Mon Jul 28 16:39:29 2008 From: ady at freebsd.ady.ro (Adrian Penisoara) Date: Mon Jul 28 16:39:40 2008 Subject: forcefsck on booting stage In-Reply-To: <20080728153204.567bb54c@gumby.homeunix.com.> References: <488DB785.3020805@gmail.com> <20080728130057.GA798@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <200807281510.12070.marc.loerner@hob.de> <20080728153204.567bb54c@gumby.homeunix.com.> Message-ID: <78cb3d3f0807280914u53fabf70m102d94416c3062fb@mail.gmail.com> Hi, On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 4:32 PM, RW wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:10:11 +0200 > Marc L__rner wrote: > > > On Monday 28 July 2008 15:00, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > > > On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 04:11:49PM +0400, sam wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > How to make 'fsck -f' on booting stage of remote system? > > > > > > I believe by setting background_fsck="no" in /etc/rc.conf? That's > > > the only way I know of, besides booting single user and doing it > > > manually. > > > > Doesn't this only disable background fsck support? > > By creating file "/forcefsck" you can force an fsck at next reboot, > > because some scripts test for existence. > > That's in linux AFAIK, but it would be fairly straightforward to > modify /etc/rc.d/fsck to get that behaviour though. > > fsck -f is interactive, so you would want to add the -y option to > prevent its hanging waiting for console input. > Would "fsck -fy" in /etc/rc.early satisfy your needs ? Not sure how much longer it will be supported this method... Regards, Adrian. From eugen at kuzbass.ru Mon Jul 28 16:31:15 2008 From: eugen at kuzbass.ru (Eugene Grosbein) Date: Mon Jul 28 17:01:27 2008 Subject: forcefsck on booting stage In-Reply-To: <488DB785.3020805@gmail.com> References: <488DB785.3020805@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080728163110.GA78761@svzserv.kemerovo.su> On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 04:11:49PM +0400, sam wrote: > How to make 'fsck -f' on booting stage of remote system? echo '/sbin/fsck -y -f' >> /etc/rc.early From ken at mthelicon.com Mon Jul 28 19:24:04 2008 From: ken at mthelicon.com (Pegasus Mc Cleaft) Date: Mon Jul 28 19:24:10 2008 Subject: Kernel Memeory - AMD64 Message-ID: <002301c8f0e7$7cb7a1a0$7626e4e0$@com> Hello everyone, I was wondering if you guys could comment or give guidance to the following question: By watching the threads here and also in the CVS commit group, I see there has been (or will be) a change to the way the kernel addresses memory. Specifically in its ability to use memory beyond the 2 gig boundry? At the moment, I have increased the limits on my box by adding the following to the /boot/loader.conf file: vm.kmem_size_max="1073741824" vm.kmem_size="1073741824" I did this because of ZFS and its requirements for memory (Just take a moment here to say thank you to the people involved in porting ZFS to the BSD platform. I love it! And I use it all the time on my machines) But with the recent changes to how the kernel addresses memory and its limits, am I better off removing these entries and letting the kernel grow is memory usage as needs be, or should I increase the limits further? If the answer is application specific, one of the boxes is a mysql server, Q6600 w/ 4 Gigs.. The other is a Q9450 w/ 8 Gigs of ram that serves as my desktop machine (xorg, kde, kdevelop, etc) Thank you in advance for your comment, Peg From ivoras at freebsd.org Mon Jul 28 20:43:52 2008 From: ivoras at freebsd.org (Ivan Voras) Date: Mon Jul 28 20:43:59 2008 Subject: Kernel Memeory - AMD64 In-Reply-To: <002301c8f0e7$7cb7a1a0$7626e4e0$@com> References: <002301c8f0e7$7cb7a1a0$7626e4e0$@com> Message-ID: Pegasus Mc Cleaft wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > I was wondering if you guys could comment or give guidance > to the following question: By watching the threads here and also in the CVS > commit group, I see there has been (or will be) a change to the way the > kernel addresses memory. Specifically in its ability to use memory beyond > the 2 gig boundry? Yes, but only for 8-CURRENT. I doubt the changes will be backported to 7.x. If you're interested, you might try running CURRENT, it's currently probably one of the most stable CURRENT trees ever. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 250 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080728/4b9b8fcf/signature.pgp From gahr at FreeBSD.org Tue Jul 29 09:28:36 2008 From: gahr at FreeBSD.org (Pietro Cerutti) Date: Tue Jul 29 09:28:43 2008 Subject: Uaudio problem Message-ID: <488ED2B3.7030506@FreeBSD.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Hi hackers, I have sent the following to multimedia one month ago, but have had no replies yet. Does anybody have a clue? Thanks in advance! I've seen several people having the same problem I'm having on the lists. However, I couldn't find a solution :-( Here's the facts: Just bought a new USB headset [1]. This one uses snd_uaudio. Playback is great, but recording / mic in doesn't work: uaudio0: on uhub0 uaudio0: audio rev 1.00 pcm0: on uaudio0 pcm0:virtual:dsp1.vr0: record interrupt timeout, channel dead pcm0:virtual:dsp1.vp0: play interrupt timeout, channel dead Here are a few debugging information. | uname -a FreeBSD gahrtop.localhost 8.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 8.0-CURRENT #0: Mon Jun 23 09:43:28 CEST 2008 root at gahrtop.localhost:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MSI1034 i386 | sysctl hw.snd dev.pcm hw.snd.latency_profile: 1 hw.snd.latency: 5 hw.snd.report_soft_formats: 1 hw.snd.compat_linux_mmap: 0 hw.snd.feeder_buffersize: 16384 hw.snd.feeder_rate_round: 25 hw.snd.feeder_rate_max: 2016000 hw.snd.feeder_rate_min: 1 hw.snd.verbose: 3 hw.snd.maxautovchans: 16 hw.snd.default_unit: 0 hw.snd.version: 2007061600/i386 hw.snd.default_auto: 0 dev.pcm.0.%desc: USB Audio dev.pcm.0.%driver: pcm dev.pcm.0.%parent: uaudio0 dev.pcm.0.play.vchans: 1 dev.pcm.0.play.vchanrate: 48000 dev.pcm.0.play.vchanformat: s16le dev.pcm.0.rec.vchans: 1 dev.pcm.0.rec.vchanrate: 48000 dev.pcm.0.rec.vchanformat: s16le dev.pcm.0.buffersize: 16384 | cat /dev/sndstat FreeBSD Audio Driver (newpcm: 32bit 2007061600/i386) Installed devices: pcm0: at ? kld snd_uaudio [GIANT] (1p:1v/1r:1v channels duplex default) ~ mode 1:(output) 2ch, 16/16bit, pcm, 48000,44100Hz ~ mode 1:(input) 1ch, 16/16bit, pcm, 48000,44100Hz ~ [pcm0:play:dsp0.p0]: spd 48000, fmt 0x10000010, flags 0x00101000, 0x00000020 ~ interrupts 0, underruns 0, feed 0, ready 0 [b:16384/2048/8|bs:16384/8192/2] ~ {userland} -> feeder_vchan(0x10000010) -> feeder_volume(0x10000010) -> {hardware} ~ pcm0:play:dsp0.p0[pcm0:virtual:dsp0.vp0]: spd 0, fmt 0x00000000/0x00000008, flags 0x10000000, 0x00000000 ~ interrupts 0, underruns 0, feed 0, ready 0 [b:0/0/0|bs:0/0/0] ~ {userland} -> feeder_root(0x00000000) -> {hardware} ~ [pcm0:record:dsp0.r0]: spd 48000, fmt 0x10000010/0x00000010, flags 0x00101000, 0x00000000 ~ interrupts 0, overruns 0, feed 0, hfree 16384, sfree 32768 [b:16384/1024/16|bs:32768/16384/2] ~ {hardware} -> feeder_root(0x00000010) -> feeder_monotostereo16(0x00000010 -> 0x10000010) -> feeder_vchan(0x10000010) -> {userland} ~ pcm0:record:dsp0.r0[pcm0:virtual:dsp0.vr0]: spd 0, fmt 0x00000000/0x00000008, flags 0x10000000, 0x00000000 ~ interrupts 0, overruns 0, feed 0, hfree 0, sfree 0 [b:0/0/0|bs:0/0/0] ~ {hardware} -> feeder_root(0x00000000) -> {userland} File Versions: $FreeBSD: src/sys/dev/sound/isa/sndbuf_dma.c,v 1.3 2005/01/06 01:43:17 imp Exp $ $FreeBSD: src/sys/dev/sound/pcm/vchan.c,v 1.36 2007/06/16 03:37:28 ariff Exp $ $FreeBSD: src/sys/dev/sound/pcm/sound.c,v 1.119 2007/06/17 19:02:05 ariff Exp $ $FreeBSD: src/sys/dev/sound/pcm/sndstat.c,v 1.28 2007/06/16 03:37:28 ariff Exp $ $FreeBSD: src/sys/dev/sound/pcm/mixer.c,v 1.61 2007/06/16 03:37:28 ariff Exp $ $FreeBSD: src/sys/dev/sound/pcm/feeder_volume.c,v 1.6 2007/06/16 20:36:39 ariff Exp $ $FreeBSD: src/sys/dev/sound/pcm/feeder_rate.c,v 1.23 2007/06/16 03:37:28 ariff Exp $ $FreeBSD: src/sys/dev/sound/pcm/feeder_fmt.c,v 1.23 2007/06/02 13:07:44 joel Exp $ $FreeBSD: src/sys/dev/sound/pcm/feeder.c,v 1.44 2007/06/17 15:53:11 ariff Exp $ $FreeBSD: src/sys/dev/sound/pcm/fake.c,v 1.18 2007/03/15 18:19:01 ariff Exp $ $FreeBSD: src/sys/dev/sound/pcm/dsp.c,v 1.109 2008/05/27 02:16:05 ariff Exp $ $FreeBSD: src/sys/dev/sound/pcm/channel.c,v 1.122 2007/12/03 14:26:56 ariff Exp $ $FreeBSD: src/sys/dev/sound/pcm/buffer.c,v 1.37 2007/06/16 03:37:27 ariff Exp $ $FreeBSD: src/sys/dev/sound/pcm/ac97_patch.c,v 1.11 2007/10/26 20:49:23 ariff Exp $ $FreeBSD: src/sys/dev/sound/pcm/ac97.c,v 1.74 2007/10/26 20:49:59 ariff Exp $ | usbdevs -v | grep Headphone ~ port 2 addr 3: full speed, power 100 mA, config 1, C-Media USB Headphone Set(0x000c), vendor 0x0d8c(0x0d8c), rev 1.00 I would greatly like to get this headset working, so any hint is appreciatd! [1] http://www.trust.com/products/product_detail.aspx?item=14734 - -- Pietro Cerutti gahr@FreeBSD.org PGP Public Key: http://gahr.ch/pgp -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEAREKAAYFAkiO0rIACgkQwMJqmJVx944ARACgpKc/zooxB9muCOPS2FjAkkhv uxoAoL5DYVaDjKqlWuHiqu359q/2cC8x =21HV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rodrigo at bebik.net Tue Jul 29 15:22:25 2008 From: rodrigo at bebik.net (Rodrigo OSORIO (ros)) Date: Tue Jul 29 15:22:34 2008 Subject: Problem with an rc script Message-ID: <20080729150018.GB19987@hodja.bebik.net> Hi, I'm trying to deal with a rc script I'm writing to launch a deamon. I wrote it based on the hanbook rc script sample. It works pretty well but I have some (strange to me) warning message. Fisrt a short explanation about what i'm doing : The application is a python script deamon started by a shell script located in /usr/local/sbin/ntlmaps. The shell script launch the application and write the pid file if require So, the rc script (ntlmapsd) calls the shell script with the right arguments to start the application, then performs a 'kill -KILL' to stop it based on the pid file information. The thing is stopping the application I receive a message saying: ./ntlmapsd: WARNING: $command_interpreter -b != /bin/sh I put the two scripts in http:\\www.bebik.net\~rodrigo\rctest\ Thanks for your help Rodrigo From jcw at highperformance.net Tue Jul 29 15:45:27 2008 From: jcw at highperformance.net (jcw@highperformance.net) Date: Tue Jul 29 15:45:46 2008 Subject: Symbols in a Module Message-ID: <488F2D48.1020501@highperformance.net> This is probably a n00b question for -hackers but it seems like the best place to ask. I am compiling an AFS module. The module won't load. Dmesg reports undefined symbol _vn_lock. nm reports that the symbol exists and is undefined. How do I compile (defined) symbols into my module? Thanks, Jason C. Wells From asmodai at in-nomine.org Tue Jul 29 16:56:40 2008 From: asmodai at in-nomine.org (Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven) Date: Tue Jul 29 16:56:46 2008 Subject: Symbols in a Module In-Reply-To: <488F2D48.1020501@highperformance.net> References: <488F2D48.1020501@highperformance.net> Message-ID: <20080729165636.GL75307@nexus.in-nomine.org> -On [20080729 17:46], jcw@highperformance.net (jcw@highperformance.net) wrote: >I am compiling an AFS module. The module won't load. Dmesg reports >undefined symbol _vn_lock. nm reports that the symbol exists and is >undefined. > >How do I compile (defined) symbols into my module? You add the appropriate source file or library. _vn_lock, sounds like sys/vnode.h, which in turn on 7-STABLE needs sys/kern/vfs_vnops.c. -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven / asmodai ????? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B I am not a teacher but an awakener... From dougb at FreeBSD.org Tue Jul 29 17:48:55 2008 From: dougb at FreeBSD.org (Doug Barton) Date: Tue Jul 29 17:49:02 2008 Subject: Problem with an rc script In-Reply-To: <20080729150018.GB19987@hodja.bebik.net> References: <20080729150018.GB19987@hodja.bebik.net> Message-ID: <488F51C5.7000002@FreeBSD.org> Rodrigo OSORIO (ros) wrote: > Hi, > > I'm trying to deal with a rc script I'm writing to launch a deamon. > I wrote it based on the hanbook rc script sample. It works pretty > well but I have some (strange to me) warning message. Your script looks pretty good, but it needs a little work. :) I assume that you wrote this based on the handbook examples for the base. You should probably take a look at the one for ports too: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/porters-handbook/rc-scripts.html > Fisrt a short explanation about what i'm doing : The application is > a python script deamon started by a shell script located in > /usr/local/sbin/ntlmaps. The shell script launch the application > and write the pid file if require > > So, the rc script (ntlmapsd) The name of the script, the $name value, and the REQUIRE: value should all match. So you should either name them all ntlmapsd, or ntlmaps. There is no conflict between the script name and the binary in /usr/local/sbin/, FYI. > calls the shell script with the right > arguments to start the application, then performs a 'kill -KILL' to > stop it based on the pid file information. > > The thing is stopping the application I receive a message saying: > ./ntlmapsd: WARNING: $command_interpreter -b != /bin/sh This is a tricky one because what you did looks totally reasonable since the script you're calling does use /bin/sh. However the command_interpreter value for rc.d needs to be what the _process_ is running, which in this case is /usr/local/bin/python. I've attached an example script that might work for you. Personally I would not make the pidfile stuff optional, in which case you could simplify things to the one in -v2. Whatever you decide, please test it thoroughly first. In addition to the web pages another good resource is to read through the comments in /etc/rc.subr. hth, Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection -------------- next part -------------- #!/bin/sh # # PROVIDE: ntlmaps # REQUIRE: LOGIN # KEYWORD: shutdown # Add the following lines to /etc/rc.conf.local or /etc/rc.conf # to enable this service: # # ntlmaps_enable (bool): Set to NO by default. # Set it to YES to enable ntlmaps. # ntlmaps_nice (string): Set to -5 by default # ntlmaps_pidfile (path): Set to /var/run/ntlmaps.pid by default . /etc/rc.subr name="ntlmaps" rcvar=${name}_enable command="/usr/local/sbin/ntlmaps" command_interpreter="/usr/local/bin/python" load_rc_config $name ntlmaps_enable=${ntlmaps_enable-"NO"} ntlmaps_nice=${ntlmaps_nice-"-5"} ntlmaps_pidfile=${ntlmaps_pidfile-"/var/run/ntlmaps.pid"} if [ -n "$ntlmaps_pidfile" ]; then pidfile=${ntlmaps_pidfile} command_args="-b -p $pidfile" else command_args="-b" fi run_rc_command "$1" -------------- next part -------------- #!/bin/sh # # PROVIDE: ntlmaps # REQUIRE: LOGIN # KEYWORD: shutdown # Add the following lines to /etc/rc.conf.local or /etc/rc.conf # to enable this service: # # ntlmaps_enable (bool): Set to NO by default. # Set it to YES to enable ntlmaps. # ntlmaps_nice (string): Set to -5 by default . /etc/rc.subr name="ntlmaps" rcvar=${name}_enable command="/usr/local/sbin/ntlmaps" command_interpreter="/usr/local/bin/python" pidfile=/var/run/ntlmaps.pid command_args="-b -p $pidfile" load_rc_config $name ntlmaps_enable=${ntlmaps_enable-"NO"} ntlmaps_nice=${ntlmaps_nice-"-5"} run_rc_command "$1" From brd at FreeBSD.org Tue Jul 29 22:43:31 2008 From: brd at FreeBSD.org (Brad Davis) Date: Tue Jul 29 22:43:52 2008 Subject: FreeBSD Status Reports due August 5th, 2008 Message-ID: <20080729224327.GJ21955@valentine.liquidneon.com> Hi Everyone, It is that time again. We would like to remind everybody who has exciting news to share to write a report about their project. This is a good way to improve exposure of your work, receive feedback and help. Looking forward to your reports. As always you can either use the template or the CGI generator and mail the output to monthly@ by Monday April 14th, 2008. http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/ http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/monthly.cgi http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-sample.xml Regards, Brad Davis From niclas.zeising at gmail.com Tue Jul 29 23:45:20 2008 From: niclas.zeising at gmail.com (Niclas Zeising) Date: Tue Jul 29 23:45:32 2008 Subject: FreeBSD Status Reports due August 5th, 2008 In-Reply-To: <20080729224327.GJ21955@valentine.liquidneon.com> References: <20080729224327.GJ21955@valentine.liquidneon.com> Message-ID: <488E5387.1030507@gmail.com> Brad Davis wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > It is that time again. We would like to remind everybody who has > exciting news to share to write a report about their project. This > is a good way to improve exposure of your work, receive feedback and > help. > > Looking forward to your reports. As always you can either use the > template or the CGI generator and mail the output to monthly@ by > Monday April 14th, 2008. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I assume you mean Friday August 5th, 2008? > > http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/ > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/monthly.cgi > http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-sample.xml > > Regards, > Brad Davis Regards //Niclas From arne at rfc2549.org Tue Jul 29 23:55:38 2008 From: arne at rfc2549.org (Arne Schwabe) Date: Tue Jul 29 23:55:45 2008 Subject: FreeBSD Status Reports due August 5th, 2008 In-Reply-To: <20080729224327.GJ21955@valentine.liquidneon.com> References: <20080729224327.GJ21955@valentine.liquidneon.com> Message-ID: <488FA429.9090803@rfc2549.org> Brad Davis schrieb: > Hi Everyone, > > It is that time again. We would like to remind everybody who has > exciting news to share to write a report about their project. This > is a good way to improve exposure of your work, receive feedback and > help. > > Looking forward to your reports. As always you can either use the > template or the CGI generator and mail the output to monthly@ by > Monday April 14th, 2008. > Could you loan me your time machine? *making puppy dog eyes* Arne From matt at ixsystems.com Wed Jul 30 00:09:06 2008 From: matt at ixsystems.com (Matt Olander) Date: Wed Jul 30 00:09:13 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> Message-ID: On Jul 25, 2008, at 3:23 PM, Jeremy Messenger wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:34:32 -0500, Frank Mayhar > wrote: > >> My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, >> sigh, >> so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions >> from >> this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't >> read -mobile). >> >> My criteria: >> * 3D acceleration. >> * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it >> anyway). >> * At least 15" screen. >> * Decent power consumption. >> * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. >> >> Nice to have: >> * Dual core. >> * >4GB memory. >> * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my >> breath). >> >> So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it >> for >> the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after >> ordering/installing it. > > Maybe you can wait for this: > > http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html Hi everyone! I actually had our prototype of this laptop up at the OSCON show in Portland and it was pretty well received. Everything works for the most part although we're still tweaking some things for ACPI. I'll have one at the FreeBSD booth at LinuxWorld in San Francisco next week, August 5-7. We'll announce as soon as this thing is 100% and we're comfortable bringing the product line up as an item that we're comfortable supporting long term. Most likely, available to the general public in September. best, -matt > > > I didn't compare your requirements in there, thought. > > Cheers, > Mezz > > > -- > mezz7@cox.net - mezz@FreeBSD.org > FreeBSD GNOME Team > http://www.FreeBSD.org/gnome/ - gnome@FreeBSD.org > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-mobile > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-mobile-unsubscribe@freebsd.org > " -- Matt Olander CTO, iXsystems - "Servers for Open Source" http://www.iXsystems.com Public Relations, The FreeBSD Project http://www.FreeBSD.org BSD on the Desktop! http://www.pcbsd.org Phone: (408)943-4100 ext. 113 Fax: (408)943-4101 From brd at FreeBSD.org Wed Jul 30 04:21:38 2008 From: brd at FreeBSD.org (Brad Davis) Date: Wed Jul 30 04:21:50 2008 Subject: FreeBSD Status Reports due August 5th, 2008 In-Reply-To: <488E5387.1030507@gmail.com> References: <20080729224327.GJ21955@valentine.liquidneon.com> <488E5387.1030507@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080730042137.GL21955@valentine.liquidneon.com> On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 01:17:27AM +0200, Niclas Zeising wrote: > Brad Davis wrote: > >Hi Everyone, > > > >It is that time again. We would like to remind everybody who has > >exciting news to share to write a report about their project. This > >is a good way to improve exposure of your work, receive feedback and > >help. > > > >Looking forward to your reports. As always you can either use the > >template or the CGI generator and mail the output to monthly@ by > >Monday April 14th, 2008. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > I assume you mean Friday August 5th, 2008? Of course you are right, that is what I get for hurrying. Regards, Brad Davis From asmodai at in-nomine.org Wed Jul 30 05:03:03 2008 From: asmodai at in-nomine.org (Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven) Date: Wed Jul 30 05:03:11 2008 Subject: FreeBSD Status Reports due August 5th, 2008 In-Reply-To: <20080730042137.GL21955@valentine.liquidneon.com> References: <20080729224327.GJ21955@valentine.liquidneon.com> <488E5387.1030507@gmail.com> <20080730042137.GL21955@valentine.liquidneon.com> Message-ID: <20080730050301.GM75307@nexus.in-nomine.org> -On [20080730 06:22], Brad Davis (brd@FreeBSD.org) wrote: >On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 01:17:27AM +0200, Niclas Zeising wrote: >> I assume you mean Friday August 5th, 2008? > >Of course you are right, that is what I get for hurrying. In my part of the world Friday in August is either the 1st or the 8th, but not the 5th. -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven / asmodai ????? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B Stand before it - there is no beginning. Follow it and there is no end. Stay with the Tao, move with the present... From niclas.zeising at gmail.com Wed Jul 30 08:38:02 2008 From: niclas.zeising at gmail.com (Niclas Zeising) Date: Wed Jul 30 08:38:09 2008 Subject: FreeBSD Status Reports due August 5th, 2008 In-Reply-To: <20080730050301.GM75307@nexus.in-nomine.org> References: <20080729224327.GJ21955@valentine.liquidneon.com> <488E5387.1030507@gmail.com> <20080730042137.GL21955@valentine.liquidneon.com> <20080730050301.GM75307@nexus.in-nomine.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 7:03 AM, Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven wrote: > -On [20080730 06:22], Brad Davis (brd@FreeBSD.org) wrote: >>On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 01:17:27AM +0200, Niclas Zeising wrote: >>> I assume you mean Friday August 5th, 2008? >> >>Of course you are right, that is what I get for hurrying. > > In my part of the world Friday in August is either the 1st or the 8th, but > not the 5th. > Of course you are right. 5th of August 2008 is a Tuesday. That is what I get for being up too late ;) Regards! //Niclas From samflanker at gmail.com Wed Jul 30 09:38:49 2008 From: samflanker at gmail.com (sam) Date: Wed Jul 30 09:38:56 2008 Subject: consolekit on 7.0-STABLE i386 Message-ID: <489036A2.5060403@gmail.com> hello my trouble FreeBSD static 7.0-STABLE FreeBSD 7.0-STABLE #23: Mon Jul 28 18:10:51 MSD 2008 root@static:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/STATIC i386 ----------------------------top_output----------------------------- |874 root 17 0 0 8296K 2660K waitvt 1 0:00 0.00% console-kit-daemon| -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------vmstat_output--------------------------- | procs memory page disks faults cpu r b w avm fre flt re pi po fr sr ad4 ad6 in sy cs us sy id 0 19 0 1113M 29M 493 1 0 0 265 129 0 0 133 45119 4588 8 5 87 0 20 0 1113M 29M 249 0 2 0 3311 0 0 22 157 7872 2262 5 7 88 0 19 0 1113M 29M 346 0 0 0 148 0 0 0 110 78963 1793 4 9 87 0 19 0 1113M 29M 115 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 105 5743 1731 13 1 85 0 19 0 1113M 29M 318 0 0 0 138 0 0 0 108 78837 1732 3 10 87 0 19 0 1113M 29M 112 0 0 0 32 0 0 1 100 5549 1682 11 1 88 0 19 0 1113M 29M 297 0 0 0 136 0 0 2 122 78880 1749 6 7 87 |-------------------------------------------------------------------- consolekit in |waitvt state, influencing on high volumes in procs-b |please any solution? /Vladimir Ermakov From neldredge at math.ucsd.edu Wed Jul 30 09:57:46 2008 From: neldredge at math.ucsd.edu (Nate Eldredge) Date: Wed Jul 30 09:57:52 2008 Subject: consolekit on 7.0-STABLE i386 In-Reply-To: <489036A2.5060403@gmail.com> References: <489036A2.5060403@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jul 2008, sam wrote: > hello > > my trouble > > > FreeBSD static 7.0-STABLE FreeBSD 7.0-STABLE #23: Mon Jul 28 18:10:51 MSD > 2008 root@static:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/STATIC i386 > > > ----------------------------top_output----------------------------- > |874 root 17 0 0 8296K 2660K waitvt 1 0:00 0.00% > console-kit-daemon| > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------------------------vmstat_output--------------------------- > | procs memory page disks faults cpu > r b w avm fre flt re pi po fr sr ad4 ad6 in sy cs us sy > id > 0 19 0 1113M 29M 493 1 0 0 265 129 0 0 133 45119 4588 8 > 5 87 > 0 20 0 1113M 29M 249 0 2 0 3311 0 0 22 157 7872 2262 5 > 7 88 > 0 19 0 1113M 29M 346 0 0 0 148 0 0 0 110 78963 1793 4 > 9 87 > 0 19 0 1113M 29M 115 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 105 5743 1731 13 > 1 85 > 0 19 0 1113M 29M 318 0 0 0 138 0 0 0 108 78837 1732 3 > 10 87 > 0 19 0 1113M 29M 112 0 0 0 32 0 0 1 100 5549 1682 11 > 1 88 > 0 19 0 1113M 29M 297 0 0 0 136 0 0 2 122 78880 1749 6 > 7 87 > |-------------------------------------------------------------------- > > consolekit in |waitvt state, influencing on high volumes in procs-b I don't understand what the problem is. It looks like consolekit is sleeping and not using any CPU. "waitvt" just indicates where in the kernel it's sleeping. I don't understand what you mean by "high volumes in procs-b". -- Nate Eldredge neldredge@math.ucsd.edu From ml.freebsd.hackers at gmail.com Wed Jul 30 12:24:29 2008 From: ml.freebsd.hackers at gmail.com (FreeBSD Hackers) Date: Wed Jul 30 12:24:35 2008 Subject: General questions about virtual memory Message-ID: <591f70e00807300459j74aac11eob0bea7cdf4b4dcd4@mail.gmail.com> Hi, all. I apologize for not posting a question specific to FreeBSD (I'll study about that later), but I'm looking for some help understanding a few things and I don't know where else to turn. Using FreeBSD to give me concrete examples of how certain things work is okay, since I do use FreeBSD and I intend to read and study books covering the design and implementation of FreeBSD. I recently picked up one of my old college textbooks, "Modern Operating Systems" (Tanenbaum, an older edition, but I'm not sure which one since the book is at home and I am not) with a strong desire to read it cover-to-cover and get a solid foundation of the concepts described therein. The chapter on virtual memory has left me with some questions, and if anyone would be willing to help me understand (either on or off list) a few things that aren't clear, I would very much appreciate it. Examples of some specific questions that I have include: WRT translation of virtual addresses to physical addresses, where does the hardware stop and the software begin? Explanation: who determines the format of the page tables (CPU or OS)? Who populates and maintains the page tables? Where does the translation lookaside buffer reside? Who maintains the TLB? Also WRT page tables, how does the OS and the MMU adjust for different sizes of physical RAM? Wouldn't the page tables for a system with 512 MB of RAM will be fewer than the page tables for a system with 2 GB of RAM? How does the CPU know how many page table entries there are? I have a few more questions, but for starters this is the kind of information I'm seeking. I'm just not getting a clear enough picture from the textbook I'm reading now. (It makes me wish I was still in college so I could dump my questions on my college professor. :) If anyone is willing to help me understand this, I would greatly appreciate it. I would also value your input if there are other resources (people, mailing lists, books, web pages, etc.) that you want to recommend instead of taking some time to help teach me. Thank you, Kevin From des at des.no Wed Jul 30 13:15:16 2008 From: des at des.no (=?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) Date: Wed Jul 30 13:15:27 2008 Subject: Symbols in a Module In-Reply-To: <20080729165636.GL75307@nexus.in-nomine.org> (Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven's message of "Tue\, 29 Jul 2008 18\:56\:36 +0200") References: <488F2D48.1020501@highperformance.net> <20080729165636.GL75307@nexus.in-nomine.org> Message-ID: <863alr4iou.fsf@ds4.des.no> Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven writes: > jcw@highperformance.net wrote: > > I am compiling an AFS module. The module won't load. Dmesg reports > > undefined symbol _vn_lock. nm reports that the symbol exists and is > > undefined. > > > > How do I compile (defined) symbols into my module? > > You add the appropriate source file or library. > > _vn_lock, sounds like sys/vnode.h, which in turn on 7-STABLE needs > sys/kern/vfs_vnops.c. Wrong answer; vn_lock is already in the kernel. The problem lies somewhere else, but there isn't enough information to figure out where. DES -- Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav - des@des.no From des at des.no Wed Jul 30 13:17:04 2008 From: des at des.no (=?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) Date: Wed Jul 30 13:17:10 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: (Matt Olander's message of "Tue\, 29 Jul 2008 16\:42\:23 -0700") References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> Message-ID: <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> Matt Olander writes: > [re http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html] Will it be available with a big FreeBSD logo on the lid? :) DES -- Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav - des@des.no From max at love2party.net Wed Jul 30 13:36:26 2008 From: max at love2party.net (Max Laier) Date: Wed Jul 30 13:36:33 2008 Subject: General questions about virtual memory In-Reply-To: <591f70e00807300459j74aac11eob0bea7cdf4b4dcd4@mail.gmail.com> References: <591f70e00807300459j74aac11eob0bea7cdf4b4dcd4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200807301536.23274.max@love2party.net> Hi, On Wednesday 30 July 2008 13:59:53 FreeBSD Hackers wrote: > Examples of some specific questions that I have include: > > WRT translation of virtual addresses to physical addresses, where does the > hardware stop and the software begin? Explanation: who determines the > format of the page tables (CPU or OS)? Who populates and maintains the > page tables? Where does the translation lookaside buffer reside? Who > maintains the TLB? it depends ... different architectures use different models. In i386 most of the above is done by hardware aided by software (i.e. the software has to flush the hardware TLB when it knows that the entries are no longer up to date ...) > Also WRT page tables, how does the OS and the MMU adjust for different > sizes of physical RAM? Wouldn't the page tables for a system with 512 MB > of RAM will be fewer than the page tables for a system with 2 GB of RAM? > How does the CPU know how many page table entries there are? This suggest that you don't understand virtual memory at all. Go back to the start of the chapter and re-read. The page directories and page tables describe a *virtual* address space. For a given architecture the *virtual* address space has a fixed size (4GB for i386), so the page table structure is always the same size (though it might be sparsely populated). Inside the page table you store *physical* addresses, the size of which is defined by the hardware. Also note that the physical addresses of your RAM might not necessarily start at zero and go for XX MB ... you need additional bookkeeping to track that (see core map, free lists, ...). The size of the PTE is defined by hardware and doesn't change at runtime. > I have a few more questions, but for starters this is the kind of > information I'm seeking. I'm just not getting a clear enough picture from > the textbook I'm reading now. (It makes me wish I was still in college so > I could dump my questions on my college professor. :) > > If anyone is willing to help me understand this, I would greatly appreciate > it. I would also value your input if there are other resources (people, > mailing lists, books, web pages, etc.) that you want to recommend instead > of taking some time to help teach me. google, wikipedia, the FreeBSD articles, ... all there at your fingertips. -- /"\ Best regards, | mlaier@freebsd.org \ / Max Laier | ICQ #67774661 X http://pf4freebsd.love2party.net/ | mlaier@EFnet / \ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Against HTML Mail and News From ml.freebsd.hackers at gmail.com Wed Jul 30 16:07:51 2008 From: ml.freebsd.hackers at gmail.com (FreeBSD Hackers) Date: Wed Jul 30 16:07:58 2008 Subject: General questions about virtual memory In-Reply-To: <200807301536.23274.max@love2party.net> References: <591f70e00807300459j74aac11eob0bea7cdf4b4dcd4@mail.gmail.com> <200807301536.23274.max@love2party.net> Message-ID: <591f70e00807300907n1a0585efr455bf1f8fc60b4e8@mail.gmail.com> > > This suggest that you don't understand virtual memory at all. Go back to > the > start of the chapter and re-read. The page directories and page tables > describe a *virtual* address space. For a given architecture the *virtual* > address space has a fixed size (4GB for i386), so the page table structure > is > always the same size (though it might be sparsely populated). Inside the > page Ack! As soon as I read this I realized the mistake I had made in my thinking. This was a dumb question, and I knew better than to ask. Somehow I had confused myself. ----- 8< ----- If a read request is made to a virtual address who's data has been swapped out, the CPU traps to the OS to fix the problem. Assuming there are no free page frames for the new data, a page frame is selected and evicted to make room for the new page. Whatever page was chosen belongs to a process somewhere in the system. When that page frame gets swapped, the PTE pointing to that page frame must be updated to indicate that that data is no longer in RAM. How does the OS find that PTE? Does it search through every entry of every page table for every process in the system until it finds it? Kevin From ertr1013 at student.uu.se Wed Jul 30 16:17:51 2008 From: ertr1013 at student.uu.se (Erik Trulsson) Date: Wed Jul 30 16:17:58 2008 Subject: General questions about virtual memory In-Reply-To: <591f70e00807300459j74aac11eob0bea7cdf4b4dcd4@mail.gmail.com> References: <591f70e00807300459j74aac11eob0bea7cdf4b4dcd4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080730160246.GA51014@owl.midgard.homeip.net> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 07:59:53AM -0400, FreeBSD Hackers wrote: > Hi, all. I apologize for not posting a question specific to FreeBSD (I'll > study about that later), but I'm looking for some help understanding a few > things and I don't know where else to turn. Using FreeBSD to give me > concrete examples of how certain things work is okay, since I do use FreeBSD > and I intend to read and study books covering the design and implementation > of FreeBSD. > > I recently picked up one of my old college textbooks, "Modern Operating > Systems" (Tanenbaum, an older edition, but I'm not sure which one since the > book is at home and I am not) with a strong desire to read it cover-to-cover > and get a solid foundation of the concepts described therein. The chapter > on virtual memory has left me with some questions, and if anyone would be > willing to help me understand (either on or off list) a few things that > aren't clear, I would very much appreciate it. You could try picking up one of Tanenbaum's other books: "Structured Computer Organization", which among other things cover virtual memory from a hardware perspective. (At least my copy does. It is the third edition, which is not the latest.) > > Examples of some specific questions that I have include: > > WRT translation of virtual addresses to physical addresses, where does the > hardware stop and the software begin? Explanation: who determines the > format of the page tables (CPU or OS)? Who populates and maintains the page > tables? Where does the translation lookaside buffer reside? Who maintains > the TLB? It can vary a bit between different architectures, but in general the format of the page tables is determined by the CPU. The TLB is located inside the CPU (so it can be accessed quickly, it is after all just a specialized cache.) The page tables are normally populated and maintained by the OS, the CPU just reads them. The TLB is typically maintained in hardware, but there are systems where it has to be updated by the OS. > > Also WRT page tables, how does the OS and the MMU adjust for different sizes > of physical RAM? Wouldn't the page tables for a system with 512 MB of RAM > will be fewer than the page tables for a system with 2 GB of RAM? How does > the CPU know how many page table entries there are? The page tables are typically used for mapping between virtual and physical addresses (and also for access rights to the mapped memory). This means that the size of the page table depends primarily on the size of the virtual memory which is not dependent on the actual RAM installed. The page tables are typically a tree-like structure, where the top level is a fairly small (typically one page) fixed-size array which contains pointers to the next level of the page table. In that level there are either yet another array of entries each of which is either a pointer to another level, or a page descriptor. You walk down the tree until you either find a descriptor for the page you are looking for or an entry saying that pages further down that branch has not been allocated. How many levels there are is system dependent. IIRC the i386 only uses a two-level format (three levels when using PAE), while the Motorola 68030 could have as many as seven levels. > > I have a few more questions, but for starters this is the kind of > information I'm seeking. I'm just not getting a clear enough picture from > the textbook I'm reading now. (It makes me wish I was still in college so I > could dump my questions on my college professor. :) > > If anyone is willing to help me understand this, I would greatly appreciate > it. I would also value your input if there are other resources (people, > mailing lists, books, web pages, etc.) that you want to recommend instead of > taking some time to help teach me. You could try picking up one of Tanenbaum's other books: "Structured Computer Organization", which among other things cover virtual memory from a hardware perspective, including examples for how the page tables are organized for a couple of example architectures. -- Erik Trulsson ertr1013@student.uu.se From ap at bnc.net Wed Jul 30 16:33:27 2008 From: ap at bnc.net (Achim Patzner) Date: Wed Jul 30 16:33:34 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: Am 30.07.2008 um 15:17 schrieb Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav: > Matt Olander writes: >> [re http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html] > Will it be available with a big FreeBSD logo on the lid? :) If you need something like that, a partially eaten white apple would be much more appropriate anyway. (Which reminds me - I didn't understand the motivation behind the original question either... Even more and more Linux users are giving up running it on their Macs, installing Mac OS instead. Looks contagious...) Achim From des at des.no Wed Jul 30 16:40:15 2008 From: des at des.no (=?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) Date: Wed Jul 30 16:40:27 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: (Achim Patzner's message of "Wed\, 30 Jul 2008 17\:27\:21 +0200") References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> Achim Patzner writes: > Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav writes: > > Matt Olander writes: > > > [re http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html] > > Will it be available with a big FreeBSD logo on the lid? :) > If you need something like that, a partially eaten white apple would > be much more appropriate anyway. (Which reminds me - I didn't > understand the motivation behind the original question either... Even > more and more Linux users are giving up running it on their Macs, > installing Mac OS instead. Looks contagious...) I don't understand what Macs have to do with this - we're talking about iX Systems's made-for-BSD laptop. DES -- Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav - des@des.no From max at love2party.net Wed Jul 30 17:28:35 2008 From: max at love2party.net (Max Laier) Date: Wed Jul 30 17:28:43 2008 Subject: General questions about virtual memory In-Reply-To: <591f70e00807300907n1a0585efr455bf1f8fc60b4e8@mail.gmail.com> References: <591f70e00807300459j74aac11eob0bea7cdf4b4dcd4@mail.gmail.com> <200807301536.23274.max@love2party.net> <591f70e00807300907n1a0585efr455bf1f8fc60b4e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200807301928.32940.max@love2party.net> On Wednesday 30 July 2008 18:07:51 FreeBSD Hackers wrote: > > This suggest that you don't understand virtual memory at all. Go back to > > the > > start of the chapter and re-read. The page directories and page tables > > describe a *virtual* address space. For a given architecture the > > *virtual* address space has a fixed size (4GB for i386), so the page > > table structure is > > always the same size (though it might be sparsely populated). Inside the > > page > > Ack! As soon as I read this I realized the mistake I had made in my > thinking. This was a dumb question, and I knew better than to ask. > Somehow I had confused myself. > > ----- 8< ----- > > If a read request is made to a virtual address who's data has been swapped > out, the CPU traps to the OS to fix the problem. Assuming there are no > free page frames for the new data, a page frame is selected and evicted to > make room for the new page. Whatever page was chosen belongs to a process > somewhere in the system. When that page frame gets swapped, the PTE > pointing to that page frame must be updated to indicate that that data is > no longer in RAM. How does the OS find that PTE? Does it search through > every entry of every page table for every process in the system until it > finds it? You should have quoted (and I suppose read) my entire message: > .. you need additional bookkeeping > to track that (see core map, free lists, ...) Wikipedia really does a good job explaining all this. -- /"\ Best regards, | mlaier@freebsd.org \ / Max Laier | ICQ #67774661 X http://pf4freebsd.love2party.net/ | mlaier@EFnet / \ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Against HTML Mail and News From neldredge at math.ucsd.edu Wed Jul 30 18:09:41 2008 From: neldredge at math.ucsd.edu (Nate Eldredge) Date: Wed Jul 30 18:09:48 2008 Subject: General questions about virtual memory In-Reply-To: <591f70e00807300459j74aac11eob0bea7cdf4b4dcd4@mail.gmail.com> References: <591f70e00807300459j74aac11eob0bea7cdf4b4dcd4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jul 2008, FreeBSD Hackers wrote: > If anyone is willing to help me understand this, I would greatly appreciate > it. I would also value your input if there are other resources (people, > mailing lists, books, web pages, etc.) that you want to recommend instead of > taking some time to help teach me. As a slightly less orthodox suggestion, I learned a lot of this from the "practice" side rather than the "theory" side, and it seems like maybe this is where some of your questions lie. In addition to a textbook, you might find it useful to get a copy of the manual for your favorite CPU, which will explain, at the level of assembly language, how all these features work. (They are usually available free on the manufacturer's website, though you may have to hunt around a bit or register for a developer program or something.) You can read it in conjunction with the FreeBSD kernel source to see an actual example. I found this approach very instructive. -- Nate Eldredge neldredge@math.ucsd.edu From v.haisman at sh.cvut.cz Wed Jul 30 18:40:38 2008 From: v.haisman at sh.cvut.cz (=?UTF-8?B?VsOhY2xhdiBIYWlzbWFu?=) Date: Wed Jul 30 18:40:45 2008 Subject: Locale woes. Message-ID: <4890B595.5060103@sh.cvut.cz> Skipped content of type multipart/mixed-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 219 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080730/9d10e47b/signature.pgp From ap at bnc.net Wed Jul 30 20:20:35 2008 From: ap at bnc.net (Achim Patzner) Date: Wed Jul 30 20:20:43 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> Am 30.07.2008 um 18:40 schrieb Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav: > I don't understand what Macs have to do with this - we're talking > about > iX Systems's made-for-BSD laptop. The thread started with someone asking for a mobile computer that would support FreeBSD sufficiently and nobody came up with something fitting the bill (and being available somewhere). Considering the picture you're seeing at any place where more than two hardcore Unix users assemble you're seeing a majority of Macs. There has to be an obvious reason for that... I tried to break that habit more than once but right now the only comfortable way of running FreeBSD on a laptop is VMware Fusion on a Mac. Reading this entire thread convinced me even more. Achim From llc2w at virginia.edu Wed Jul 30 20:50:41 2008 From: llc2w at virginia.edu (L Campbell) Date: Wed Jul 30 20:50:48 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> Message-ID: <792298050807301331g37cc20a3of90ef7b7d2c94a17@mail.gmail.com> > right now the only comfortable way of running FreeBSD on a laptop is VMware Fusion on a Mac. It depends on what you consider to be "comfortable". My primary machine is an old Dell Inspiron 6000 (running the RELENG_7 branch) and the only hardware compatibility issue I've ever had was that suspend/hibernate doesn't work (display doesn't come back on). I'm much more comfortable with ignorable ACPI issues on old (but perfectly capable) hardware than running everything through a VM on a brand new top-of-the-line machine. While this message is entirely anecdotal, I'm sure there are quite a few other people happily running FreeBSD on a variety of machines (albeit, somewhat aged hardware) which doesn't come near the specifications outlined in the original post. From joerg at britannica.bec.de Wed Jul 30 21:04:45 2008 From: joerg at britannica.bec.de (Joerg Sonnenberger) Date: Wed Jul 30 21:04:52 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <792298050807301331g37cc20a3of90ef7b7d2c94a17@mail.gmail.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> <792298050807301331g37cc20a3of90ef7b7d2c94a17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080730210437.GA14701@britannica.bec.de> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 04:31:10PM -0400, L Campbell wrote: > It depends on what you consider to be "comfortable". My primary machine is > an old Dell Inspiron 6000 (running the RELENG_7 branch) and the only > hardware compatibility issue I've ever had was that suspend/hibernate > doesn't work (display doesn't come back on). vbetool post? Joerg From v.haisman at sh.cvut.cz Wed Jul 30 21:50:26 2008 From: v.haisman at sh.cvut.cz (=?UTF-8?B?VsOhY2xhdiBIYWlzbWFu?=) Date: Wed Jul 30 21:50:33 2008 Subject: Locale woes. In-Reply-To: <4890B595.5060103@sh.cvut.cz> References: <4890B595.5060103@sh.cvut.cz> Message-ID: <4890E215.2020304@sh.cvut.cz> V?clav Haisman wrote, On 30.7.2008 20:40: > Hi, > I have some problem with locales on FreeBSD 6.3. The attached test case > fails with uncaught std::runtime_error exception: [...] I am able to run the test case successfuly when I compile it with STLport. So it seems there is something odd going on with just the libstdc++ that ships with GCC. On the other hand, it works fine with GCC 4.1.2 on Gentoo/Linux. -- wilx -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 219 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080730/a7f6f760/signature.pgp From oberman at es.net Wed Jul 30 21:58:45 2008 From: oberman at es.net (Kevin Oberman) Date: Wed Jul 30 22:28:05 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:20:28 +0200." <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> Message-ID: <20080730214715.7F8C74500E@ptavv.es.net> > From: Achim Patzner > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:20:28 +0200 > Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org > > Am 30.07.2008 um 18:40 schrieb Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav: > > I don't understand what Macs have to do with this - we're talking > > about > > iX Systems's made-for-BSD laptop. > > The thread started with someone asking for a mobile computer that > would support FreeBSD sufficiently and nobody came up with something > fitting the bill (and being available somewhere). Considering the > picture you're seeing at any place where more than two hardcore Unix > users assemble you're seeing a majority of Macs. There has to be an > obvious reason for that... I tried to break that habit more than once > but right now the only comfortable way of running FreeBSD on a laptop > is VMware Fusion on a Mac. Reading this entire thread convinced me > even more. I have been running for the last two years in a ThinkPad T43 and it works fine. ATI graphics work well as does everything except the modem. Since I don't have any access to any dialup network service any more, I don't think I care, although I do carry an old PCMCIA modem card, just in case. Suspend also does not work reliably, but I don't normally suspend my system, anyway, so I don't notice that, either. Atheros wireless, Broadcomm Ethernet, graphics, DRI, USB all just work and have worked since V6.1 days. That said, I suspect that my next laptop with be a Mac with either VMware or Parallels, My wife already runs one and it's pretty nice. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: oberman@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 224 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080730/ed2bf09e/attachment.pgp From mjguzik at gmail.com Wed Jul 30 22:35:41 2008 From: mjguzik at gmail.com (Mateusz Guzik) Date: Wed Jul 30 22:35:48 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> Message-ID: 2008/7/30 Matt Olander : > On Jul 25, 2008, at 3:23 PM, Jeremy Messenger wrote: > >> Maybe you can wait for this: >> >> http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html > > Hi everyone! I actually had our prototype of this laptop up at the OSCON > show in Portland and it was pretty well received. > Everything works for the most part although we're still tweaking some things > for ACPI. > > I'll have one at the FreeBSD booth at LinuxWorld in San Francisco next week, > August 5-7. We'll announce as soon as this thing is 100% and we're > comfortable bringing the product line up as an item that we're comfortable > supporting long term. Most likely, available to the general public in > September. > Any chances it will be available with trackpoint instead of touchpad? :) Thanks, -- Mateusz Guzik From julian at elischer.org Wed Jul 30 22:42:12 2008 From: julian at elischer.org (Julian Elischer) Date: Wed Jul 30 22:42:18 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> Message-ID: <4890EE56.2090202@elischer.org> Matt Olander wrote: >> >> http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html > > Hi everyone! I actually had our prototype of this laptop up at the OSCON > show in Portland and it was pretty well received. > Everything works for the most part although we're still tweaking some > things for ACPI. > > I'll have one at the FreeBSD booth at LinuxWorld in San Francisco next > week, August 5-7. We'll announce as soon as this thing is 100% and we're > comfortable bringing the product line up as an item that we're > comfortable supporting long term. Most likely, available to the general > public in September. > > best, > -matt > > ooooh nice! battery life? From matt at ixsystems.com Wed Jul 30 23:34:17 2008 From: matt at ixsystems.com (Matt Olander) Date: Wed Jul 30 23:34:34 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <4890EE56.2090202@elischer.org> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <4890EE56.2090202@elischer.org> Message-ID: On Jul 30, 2008, at 3:42 PM, Julian Elischer wrote: > Matt Olander wrote: > >>> >>> http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html >> Hi everyone! I actually had our prototype of this laptop up at the >> OSCON show in Portland and it was pretty well received. >> Everything works for the most part although we're still tweaking >> some things for ACPI. >> I'll have one at the FreeBSD booth at LinuxWorld in San Francisco >> next week, August 5-7. We'll announce as soon as this thing is 100% >> and we're comfortable bringing the product line up as an item that >> we're comfortable supporting long term. Most likely, available to >> the general public in September. >> best, >> -matt > > ooooh > nice! > > battery life? I haven't done any battery life testing yet but I will. We just put NetBSD current on there late last night and one of our guys is surfing the net right now with one of the prototypes. We'll run it through some tests over this weekend on FreeBSD 7 and post some relevant specs up on the site next week. I'll let everyone know when we update :-P We've got a couple of minimalist stickers on there but we're hoping to ship it with a fun BSD sticker kit. I put the huge FreeBSD Mall bumper sticker on the lid of mine ;-) -matt From alex.wilkinson at dsto.defence.gov.au Thu Jul 31 00:27:05 2008 From: alex.wilkinson at dsto.defence.gov.au (Wilkinson, Alex) Date: Thu Jul 31 00:27:11 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <20080730210437.GA14701@britannica.bec.de> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> <792298050807301331g37cc20a3of90ef7b7d2c94a17@mail.gmail.com> <20080730210437.GA14701@britannica.bec.de> Message-ID: <20080731002504.GB90665@stlux503.dsto.defence.gov.au> 0n Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 11:04:38PM +0200, Joerg Sonnenberger wrote: >On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 04:31:10PM -0400, L Campbell wrote: >> It depends on what you consider to be "comfortable". My primary machine is >> an old Dell Inspiron 6000 (running the RELENG_7 branch) and the only >> hardware compatibility issue I've ever had was that suspend/hibernate >> doesn't work (display doesn't come back on). > >vbetool post? Is vbetool in ports ? I cant find it mentioned anywhere in INDEX-*. -aW IMPORTANT: This email remains the property of the Australian Defence Organisation and is subject to the jurisdiction of section 70 of the CRIMES ACT 1914. If you have received this email in error, you are requested to contact the sender and delete the email. From joerg at britannica.bec.de Thu Jul 31 00:50:10 2008 From: joerg at britannica.bec.de (Joerg Sonnenberger) Date: Thu Jul 31 00:50:17 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <20080731002504.GB90665@stlux503.dsto.defence.gov.au> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> <792298050807301331g37cc20a3of90ef7b7d2c94a17@mail.gmail.com> <20080730210437.GA14701@britannica.bec.de> <20080731002504.GB90665@stlux503.dsto.defence.gov.au> Message-ID: <20080731004958.GA19884@britannica.bec.de> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 08:25:04AM +0800, Wilkinson, Alex wrote: > >vbetool post? > > Is vbetool in ports ? I cant find it mentioned anywhere in INDEX-*. Can't find it either. ENOFREEBSD :) http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/vbetool/ Joerg From stuartb at 4gh.net Thu Jul 31 01:08:24 2008 From: stuartb at 4gh.net (Stuart Barkley) Date: Thu Jul 31 01:09:39 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 at 18:35 -0000, Mateusz Guzik wrote: > 2008/7/30 Matt Olander : > > On Jul 25, 2008, at 3:23 PM, Jeremy Messenger wrote: > > > >> Maybe you can wait for this: > >> > >> http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html > > Any chances it will be available with trackpoint instead of > touchpad? :) I like that it has a serial port on it. What does it have for audio? A line-in connection would also be very welcome. Also, how about 3 buttons on the touchpad? I really like having a middle button. From unixmania at gmail.com Thu Jul 31 01:13:44 2008 From: unixmania at gmail.com (Carlos A. M. dos Santos) Date: Thu Jul 31 01:13:50 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Achim Patzner wrote: > Am 30.07.2008 um 18:40 schrieb Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav: >> >> I don't understand what Macs have to do with this - we're talking about >> iX Systems's made-for-BSD laptop. > > The thread started with someone asking for a mobile computer that > would support FreeBSD sufficiently and nobody came up with something > fitting the bill (and being available somewhere). Considering the > picture you're seeing at any place where more than two hardcore Unix > users assemble you're seeing a majority of Macs. There has to be an > obvious reason for that... I tried to break that habit more than once > but right now the only comfortable way of running FreeBSD on a laptop > is VMware Fusion on a Mac. Reading this entire thread convinced me > even more. Please define "comfortable". I've been running FreeBSD 7.0 pretty comfortably on my HP nx6320 for several months now. I never attempted to use neither Bluetooth nor the fingerprint reader, so I don't miss them. The only real drawback I've found was that the memory card reader does not work. I also ran 8.0-CURRENT on a HP 6910p because 7.0 did not support the WI-FI card. -- Carlos Santos Working, but not speaking (or advertising) for HP :-) From ioplex at gmail.com Thu Jul 31 04:12:37 2008 From: ioplex at gmail.com (Michael B Allen) Date: Thu Jul 31 04:12:45 2008 Subject: Pls sanity check my semtimedop(2) implementation In-Reply-To: <20080718155856.GA96280@stack.nl> References: <78c6bd860807121611w4f6ab44brbebfffea9929682a@mail.gmail.com> <20080718155856.GA96280@stack.nl> Message-ID: <78c6bd860807302112v22d07403hfbadfd6a9a10b0f0@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Jilles Tjoelker wrote: > On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 07:11:26PM -0400, Michael B Allen wrote: >> Below is a semtimedop(2) implementation that I'm using for FreeBSD. I >> was hoping someone could look it over and tell me if they think the >> implementation is sound. > >> [snip semtimedop implementation that uses SIGALRM and relies on EINTR] > >> The code seems to work ok but when stressing the FreeBSD build of my app >> I have managed to provoke errors related to concurrency (usually when a >> SIGALRM goes off). The Linux build works flawlessesly so I'm wondering >> about this one critical function that is different. > > In your implementation, the SIGALRM signal may happen before you even > call semop(2). If so, most likely the semop(2) will hang arbitrarily > long. Indeed. And I reconnoiter that condition is likely to happen if called with a sufficiently small timeout value. > Another dirty fix is to try non-blocking semop(2) several times with > sleeps in between. Actually that seems to work pretty well. If I force the nanosleep codepath to be used always, the application actually works pretty well under load. I wonder if the overhead of managing the signal and timer is worth the trouble. For posterity, below is the current implementation of semtimedop(2) for FreeBSD. Further ideas are welcome. void _timeval_diff(struct timeval *tv1, struct timeval *tv2, struct timeval *tvd) { tvd->tv_sec = tv1->tv_sec - tv2->tv_sec; tvd->tv_usec = tv1->tv_usec - tv2->tv_usec; if (tvd->tv_usec < 0) { tvd->tv_usec = 1000000 - tvd->tv_usec; tvd->tv_sec--; } } void signal_ignore(int s, siginfo_t *si, void *ctx) { } int _semtimedop(int semid, struct sembuf *array, size_t nops, struct timespec *_timeout) { struct timeval timeout, before, after; struct itimerval value, ovalue; struct sigaction sa, osa; int ret; if (_timeout) { timeout.tv_sec = _timeout->tv_sec; timeout.tv_usec = _timeout->tv_nsec / 1000; if (gettimeofday(&before, NULL) == -1) { errno = EFAULT; return -1; } if (timeout.tv_sec == 0 && timeout.tv_usec < 5000) { struct timeval tsleep, tend; struct sembuf wait; wait = *array; wait.sem_flg |= IPC_NOWAIT; tsleep.tv_sec = 0; tsleep.tv_usec = 1; timeradd(&before, &timeout, &tend); for ( ;; ) { struct timeval tnow, tleft; struct timespec ts; ret = semop(semid, &wait, nops); if (ret == 0) { return 0; } else if (errno != EAGAIN) { break; } if (gettimeofday(&tnow, NULL) == -1) { errno = EFAULT; break; } if (timercmp(&tnow, &tend, >=)) { errno = EAGAIN; break; } timersub(&tend, &tnow, &tleft); if (tsleep.tv_usec > tleft.tv_usec) tsleep.tv_usec = tleft.tv_usec; ts.tv_sec = 0; ts.tv_nsec = tsleep.tv_usec * 1000; nanosleep(&ts, NULL); tsleep.tv_usec *= 10; } return -1; } memset(&value, 0, sizeof value); value.it_value = timeout; memset(&sa, 0, sizeof sa); sa.sa_sigaction = signal_ignore; sa.sa_flags = SA_SIGINFO; sigemptyset(&sa.sa_mask); sigaction(SIGALRM, &sa, &osa); if (setitimer(ITIMER_REAL, &value, &ovalue) == -1) { sigaction(SIGALRM, &osa, NULL); return -1; } } ret = semop(semid, array, nops); if (_timeout) { ret = setitimer(ITIMER_REAL, &ovalue, NULL); if (ret < 0) errno = EFAULT; sigaction(SIGALRM, &osa, NULL); } if (ret == -1) { if (_timeout) { struct timeval elapsed; if (gettimeofday(&after, NULL) == -1) { } else { _timeval_diff(&after, &before, &elapsed); if (timercmp(&elapsed, &timeout, >=)) errno = EAGAIN; } } return -1; } return 0; } From stefan.lambrev at moneybookers.com Thu Jul 31 08:13:08 2008 From: stefan.lambrev at moneybookers.com (Stefan Lambrev) Date: Thu Jul 31 08:13:15 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> Message-ID: <4891740F.7000305@moneybookers.com> Matt Olander wrote: > On Jul 25, 2008, at 3:23 PM, Jeremy Messenger wrote: > >> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:34:32 -0500, Frank Mayhar wrote: >> >>> My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, >>> sigh, >>> so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from >>> this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't >>> read -mobile). >>> >>> My criteria: >>> * 3D acceleration. >>> * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it >>> anyway). >>> * At least 15" screen. >>> * Decent power consumption. >>> * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. >>> >>> Nice to have: >>> * Dual core. >>> * >4GB memory. >>> * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my >>> breath). >>> >>> So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it for >>> the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after >>> ordering/installing it. >> >> Maybe you can wait for this: >> >> http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html > > Hi everyone! I actually had our prototype of this laptop up at the > OSCON show in Portland and it was pretty well received. > Everything works for the most part although we're still tweaking some > things for ACPI. > > I'll have one at the FreeBSD booth at LinuxWorld in San Francisco next > week, August 5-7. We'll announce as soon as this thing is 100% and > we're comfortable bringing the product line up as an item that we're > comfortable supporting long term. Most likely, available to the > general public in September. Does it have web cam btw ? I do not saw in spec, but on the picture looks like it have. My experience show, that if one want to have decent 3D acceleration on freebsd, there is only one way - i386 + nvidia driver. I know Intel video cards are very pro-open source, but the driver for those cards is not better then nvidia's. Also I guess some time will pass before we see those laptops in Europe? -- Best Wishes, Stefan Lambrev ICQ# 24134177 From koitsu at FreeBSD.org Thu Jul 31 08:26:18 2008 From: koitsu at FreeBSD.org (Jeremy Chadwick) Date: Thu Jul 31 08:26:25 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <4891740F.7000305@moneybookers.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <4891740F.7000305@moneybookers.com> Message-ID: <20080731082618.GA2204@eos.sc1.parodius.com> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:13:03AM +0300, Stefan Lambrev wrote: > Matt Olander wrote: >> On Jul 25, 2008, at 3:23 PM, Jeremy Messenger wrote: >> >>> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:34:32 -0500, Frank Mayhar wrote: >>> >>>> My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, >>>> sigh, >>>> so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from >>>> this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't >>>> read -mobile). >>>> >>>> My criteria: >>>> * 3D acceleration. >>>> * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it >>>> anyway). >>>> * At least 15" screen. >>>> * Decent power consumption. >>>> * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. >>>> >>>> Nice to have: >>>> * Dual core. >>>> * >4GB memory. >>>> * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my >>>> breath). >>>> >>>> So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it for >>>> the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after >>>> ordering/installing it. >>> >>> Maybe you can wait for this: >>> >>> http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html >> >> Hi everyone! I actually had our prototype of this laptop up at the >> OSCON show in Portland and it was pretty well received. >> Everything works for the most part although we're still tweaking some >> things for ACPI. >> >> I'll have one at the FreeBSD booth at LinuxWorld in San Francisco next >> week, August 5-7. We'll announce as soon as this thing is 100% and >> we're comfortable bringing the product line up as an item that we're >> comfortable supporting long term. Most likely, available to the >> general public in September. > Does it have web cam btw ? I do not saw in spec, but on the picture > looks like it have. FreeBSD has support for webcams? News to me. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From stefan.lambrev at moneybookers.com Thu Jul 31 08:37:21 2008 From: stefan.lambrev at moneybookers.com (Stefan Lambrev) Date: Thu Jul 31 08:37:28 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <20080731082618.GA2204@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <4891740F.7000305@moneybookers.com> <20080731082618.GA2204@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Message-ID: <489179BC.7050007@moneybookers.com> Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:13:03AM +0300, Stefan Lambrev wrote: > >> Matt Olander wrote: >> >>> On Jul 25, 2008, at 3:23 PM, Jeremy Messenger wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:34:32 -0500, Frank Mayhar wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, >>>>> sigh, >>>>> so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from >>>>> this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't >>>>> read -mobile). >>>>> >>>>> My criteria: >>>>> * 3D acceleration. >>>>> * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it >>>>> anyway). >>>>> * At least 15" screen. >>>>> * Decent power consumption. >>>>> * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. >>>>> >>>>> Nice to have: >>>>> * Dual core. >>>>> * >4GB memory. >>>>> * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my >>>>> breath). >>>>> >>>>> So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it for >>>>> the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after >>>>> ordering/installing it. >>>>> >>>> Maybe you can wait for this: >>>> >>>> http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html >>>> >>> Hi everyone! I actually had our prototype of this laptop up at the >>> OSCON show in Portland and it was pretty well received. >>> Everything works for the most part although we're still tweaking some >>> things for ACPI. >>> >>> I'll have one at the FreeBSD booth at LinuxWorld in San Francisco next >>> week, August 5-7. We'll announce as soon as this thing is 100% and >>> we're comfortable bringing the product line up as an item that we're >>> comfortable supporting long term. Most likely, available to the >>> general public in September. >>> >> Does it have web cam btw ? I do not saw in spec, but on the picture >> looks like it have. >> > > FreeBSD has support for webcams? News to me. > multimedia/pwcbsd multimedia/linux-gspca-kmod multimedia/linux-ov511-kmod Though I never heard for someone using successfully his webcam with skype2 ;) http://info.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/FreeBSD/usb-cameras.html The question for webcamps pop-ups regularly on -multimedia. -- Best Wishes, Stefan Lambrev ICQ# 24134177 From guru at unixarea.de Thu Jul 31 08:52:06 2008 From: guru at unixarea.de (Matthias Apitz) Date: Thu Jul 31 08:52:13 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <489179BC.7050007@moneybookers.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <4891740F.7000305@moneybookers.com> <20080731082618.GA2204@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <489179BC.7050007@moneybookers.com> Message-ID: <20080731085202.GA4101@rebelion.Sisis.de> El d?a Thursday, July 31, 2008 a las 11:37:16AM +0300, Stefan Lambrev escribi?: > >FreeBSD has support for webcams? News to me. > > > multimedia/pwcbsd > multimedia/linux-gspca-kmod > multimedia/linux-ov511-kmod > > Though I never heard for someone using successfully his webcam with > skype2 ;) > > http://info.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/FreeBSD/usb-cameras.html > > The question for webcamps pop-ups regularly on -multimedia. I've this cam: Mar 19 10:31:28 rebelion kernel: pwc0: vendor 0x0471 product 0x0329, rev 1.10/0.03, addr 2 Mar 19 10:31:29 rebelion kernel: pwc0: Philips SPC900NC USB webcam Mar 19 10:31:29 rebelion kernel: pwc0: This camera is equipped with a Sony CCD sensor + TDA8787 (32 which is supported by multimedia/pwcbsd and works fine with Ekiga (SVN version) via the V4L plugin of ptlib (ptlib/plugins/vidinput_v4l); matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/ We should all learn from the peoples of The Netherlands, France and Ireland. Aprendamos todos de los pueblos de Holanda, Francia e Irlanda. From ap at bnc.net Thu Jul 31 09:18:03 2008 From: ap at bnc.net (Achim Patzner) Date: Thu Jul 31 09:18:10 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> Message-ID: <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> Am 31.07.2008 um 02:45 schrieb Carlos A. M. dos Santos: > On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Achim Patzner wrote: >> I tried to break that habit more than once >> but right now the only comfortable way of running FreeBSD on a laptop >> is VMware Fusion on a Mac. Reading this entire thread convinced me >> even more. > > Please define "comfortable". You just did so: > I never attempted to use neither Bluetooth nor the fingerprint reader > [...] the memory card > reader does not work. I also ran 8.0-CURRENT on a HP 6910p because 7.0 > did not support the WI-FI card. Great Lord. I just opened the box, turned the machine on and - after waiting fo about a few minutes - just began using it. Drivers? Who cares. Serial port? Just plug in an USB-to-serial. Getting X to run on the *censored* *even more censorship*? No problem, it's even launching itself should I really need it. Camera? Built-in. Unix that feels like FreeBSD? Built- in. HSDPA? Just connect the USB modem or plug in the Merlin XU. NO FUCKING INTEL STICKERS TO PEEL OFF. PRICELESS. It's a perfect machine for the desktop; I've forbidden FreeBSD to come creeping out the server room some years ago. I need it for keeping the penguins away, it's really good at that (no wonder - pitchforks do hurt). But it's a pain for desktoppy things - so why shouldn't I use something less useful? And the other way round: Running Mac OS X Server is the most painful thing I've ever been paid for; I've been replacing a lot of them with FreeBSD-based servers. Achim From koitsu at FreeBSD.org Thu Jul 31 10:08:21 2008 From: koitsu at FreeBSD.org (Jeremy Chadwick) Date: Thu Jul 31 10:08:34 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> Message-ID: <20080731100821.GA15213@eos.sc1.parodius.com> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:17:54AM +0200, Achim Patzner wrote: > Drivers? Who cares. Serial port? Just plug in an USB-to-serial. You've obviously never used a USB-to-serial adapter. Are you aware of the fact that there is no serial device class as part of the USB specification? (Quite a great irony, if you ask me. Universal SERIAL Bus, yet no serial device class...) AFAIK, there isn't even a draft proposal for such. You *must* have drivers for a USB-to-serial adapter. And every adapter is different, depending upon the adapter chipset used, many of which are not disclosed in product specifications, so there's no way to guarantee it'll work with FreeBSD. On -stable (I believe) some people have mentioned which USB-to-serial adapters work great under FreeBSD and Windows, while others are horrible (dropping characters, broken flow control, interrupt issues, and many other problems). > It's a perfect machine for the desktop; I've forbidden FreeBSD to come > creeping out the server room some years ago. I need it for keeping the > penguins away, it's really good at that (no wonder - pitchforks do > hurt). > But it's a pain for desktoppy things - so why shouldn't I use something > less useful? And the other way round: Running Mac OS X Server is the > most painful thing I've ever been paid for; I've been replacing a lot of > them with FreeBSD-based servers. The amount of rhetoric in these two paragraphs is amazing; I literally cannot tell if you're trolling with anti-FreeBSD propaganda, or if you're trolling with pro-FreeBSD propaganda. Congratulations, you've confused at least one reader. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From samflanker at gmail.com Thu Jul 31 10:38:48 2008 From: samflanker at gmail.com (sam) Date: Thu Jul 31 10:38:54 2008 Subject: consolekit on 7.0-STABLE i386 In-Reply-To: References: <489036A2.5060403@gmail.com> Message-ID: <48919631.7060100@gmail.com> Nate Eldredge wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jul 2008, sam wrote: > >> hello >> >> my trouble >> >> >> FreeBSD static 7.0-STABLE FreeBSD 7.0-STABLE #23: Mon Jul 28 18:10:51 >> MSD 2008 root@static:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/STATIC i386 >> >> >> ----------------------------top_output----------------------------- >> |874 root 17 0 0 8296K 2660K waitvt 1 0:00 0.00% >> console-kit-daemon| >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> ---------------------------vmstat_output--------------------------- >> | procs memory page disks >> faults cpu >> r b w avm fre flt re pi po fr sr ad4 ad6 in sy >> cs us sy id >> 0 19 0 1113M 29M 493 1 0 0 265 129 0 0 133 45119 >> 4588 8 5 87 >> 0 20 0 1113M 29M 249 0 2 0 3311 0 0 22 157 7872 >> 2262 5 7 88 >> 0 19 0 1113M 29M 346 0 0 0 148 0 0 0 110 78963 >> 1793 4 9 87 >> 0 19 0 1113M 29M 115 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 105 5743 >> 1731 13 1 85 >> 0 19 0 1113M 29M 318 0 0 0 138 0 0 0 108 78837 >> 1732 3 10 87 >> 0 19 0 1113M 29M 112 0 0 0 32 0 0 1 100 5549 >> 1682 11 1 88 >> 0 19 0 1113M 29M 297 0 0 0 136 0 0 2 122 78880 >> 1749 6 7 87 >> |-------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> consolekit in |waitvt state, influencing on high volumes in procs-b > > I don't understand what the problem is. It looks like consolekit is > sleeping and not using any CPU. "waitvt" just indicates where in the > kernel it's sleeping. I don't understand what you mean by "high > volumes in procs-b". > yes, but procs-b have low volumes after killed consolekit process i`m watched it on many systems (7.0-STABLE i386) /Vladimir Ermakov From ap at bnc.net Thu Jul 31 10:48:05 2008 From: ap at bnc.net (Achim Patzner) Date: Thu Jul 31 10:48:20 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <20080731100821.GA15213@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> <20080731100821.GA15213@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Message-ID: Am 31.07.2008 um 12:08 schrieb Jeremy Chadwick: > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:17:54AM +0200, Achim Patzner wrote: >> Drivers? Who cares. Serial port? Just plug in an USB-to-serial. > > You've obviously never used a USB-to-serial adapter. Wrong; I'm using them all the time. Initial kneading of serious Cisco stuff still didn't get into the 21. century. My tool of choice is an ExSys EX-1372 (ExpressCard, but that's just a fancy packaging for USB) which is - using the Mac OS built-in driver or Windows > 2000 - working out of the box and interrupt delivery is good enough to run Auerswald's Java application for their PABX systems (which is so timing-dependent that it is refusing to work with quite a few "real" serial ports). > Are you aware of > the fact that there is no serial device class as part of the USB > specification? (Quite a great irony, if you ask me. Universal SERIAL > Bus, yet no serial device class...) AFAIK, there isn't even a draft > proposal for such. I don't care. It just *works*, even with off-the-mill Prolific trash (although those will not suffice for my telefone). I won't even get into typical Mac-user's creature comforts like using Bluetooth serial devices (just power it on and the Mac magically sprouts a /dev/cu.Bluetooth-dongle-name.subdevice plus /dev/tty. which will even do fancy stuff like automatic speed and parity settings. > so there's no way to guarantee it'll work with FreeBSD. Which is true for so many things. Which I can buy off-the-shelf for Mac OS. No hassle, no hacking, no sweat. For me a desktop machine is a tool; I won't give it more consideration than a screwdriver. It has to do its job which (again: for me) is delivering a usable front- end for servers and writing documentation (and bills!) plus doing all the communication stuff I need to be able to work wherever I am. It boils down to: Unix, no Linux, Word (They make me need it...), VMware. >> It's a perfect machine for the desktop; I've forbidden FreeBSD to >> come >> creeping out the server room some years ago. I need it for keeping >> the >> penguins away, it's really good at that (no wonder - pitchforks do >> hurt). >> But it's a pain for desktoppy things - so why shouldn't I use >> something >> less useful? And the other way round: Running Mac OS X Server is the >> most painful thing I've ever been paid for; I've been replacing a >> lot of >> them with FreeBSD-based servers. > > The amount of rhetoric in these two paragraphs is amazing; I literally > cannot tell if you're trolling with anti-FreeBSD propaganda, or if > you're trolling with pro-FreeBSD propaganda. Congratulations, you've > confused at least one reader. Wrong on both counts. I'm just using the appropriate tools for the jobs that need to be done. And on the desktop FreeBSD just plain sucks in comparison to Mac OS. And after all, Mac users need FreeBSD - who else should provide them with all the nice things from ipfw to the user land? Would you really expect Apple to do it all on its own? Face it: The real difference between servers and desktops is the "who has to bend over"-question. Servers are adapted to the software they are going to run while on "personal computers" the software has to adapt to the machine ("I want that shiny Sony. I don't care if the hardware sucks, it's beautiful."). And Chuck is quite definitely lacking at bending over... Achim From kostikbel at gmail.com Thu Jul 31 10:50:14 2008 From: kostikbel at gmail.com (Kostik Belousov) Date: Thu Jul 31 10:50:25 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <4890EE56.2090202@elischer.org> Message-ID: <20080731102836.GZ97161@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 04:07:31PM -0700, Matt Olander wrote: > On Jul 30, 2008, at 3:42 PM, Julian Elischer wrote: > > >Matt Olander wrote: > > > >>> > >>>http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html > >>Hi everyone! I actually had our prototype of this laptop up at the > >>OSCON show in Portland and it was pretty well received. > >>Everything works for the most part although we're still tweaking > >>some things for ACPI. > >>I'll have one at the FreeBSD booth at LinuxWorld in San Francisco > >>next week, August 5-7. We'll announce as soon as this thing is 100% > >>and we're comfortable bringing the product line up as an item that > >>we're comfortable supporting long term. Most likely, available to > >>the general public in September. > >>best, > >>-matt > > > >ooooh > >nice! > > > >battery life? > > I haven't done any battery life testing yet but I will. We just put > NetBSD current on there late last night and one of our guys is surfing > the net right now with one of the prototypes. We'll run it through > some tests over this weekend on FreeBSD 7 and post some relevant specs > up on the site next week. I'll let everyone know when we update :-P > > We've got a couple of minimalist stickers on there but we're hoping to > ship it with a fun BSD sticker kit. I put the huge FreeBSD Mall bumper > sticker on the lid of mine ;-) Would it be possible to order it not from US, and how much shipping may cost ? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080731/5a303b12/attachment.pgp From koitsu at FreeBSD.org Thu Jul 31 11:08:02 2008 From: koitsu at FreeBSD.org (Jeremy Chadwick) Date: Thu Jul 31 11:08:10 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> <20080731100821.GA15213@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Message-ID: <20080731110802.GB28990@eos.sc1.parodius.com> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 12:48:02PM +0200, Achim Patzner wrote: > I don't care. I can see that; thanks for summing it up. >> The amount of rhetoric in these two paragraphs is amazing; I literally >> cannot tell if you're trolling with anti-FreeBSD propaganda, or if >> you're trolling with pro-FreeBSD propaganda. Congratulations, you've >> confused at least one reader. > > Wrong on both counts. I'm just using the appropriate tools for the jobs > that need to be done. And on the desktop FreeBSD just plain sucks in > comparison to Mac OS. And after all, Mac users need FreeBSD - who else > should provide them with all the nice things from ipfw to the user land? > Would you really expect Apple to do it all on its own? > > Face it: The real difference between servers and desktops is the "who > has to bend over"-question. Servers are adapted to the software they > are going to run while on "personal computers" the software has to adapt > to the machine ("I want that shiny Sony. I don't care if the hardware > sucks, it's beautiful."). And Chuck is quite definitely lacking at > bending > over... You just did it again -- anti-FreeBSD propaganda and pro-FreeBSD propaganda in a single paragraph, followed by an oddly-skewed server-to-desktop comparison, something about computer cosmetics, then a strange comment about the beastie/Chuck which seems to be negative but could be positive depending on how you look at it. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From freebsdstuff at gmail.com Thu Jul 31 11:24:10 2008 From: freebsdstuff at gmail.com (Vladimir.Pal) Date: Thu Jul 31 11:24:43 2008 Subject: Fwd: consolekit on 7.0-STABLE i386 In-Reply-To: <2aa9a3be0807310355x54c13987n85bca00f233a9de5@mail.gmail.com> References: <489036A2.5060403@gmail.com> <489198CF.6060804@gmail.com> <2aa9a3be0807310355x54c13987n85bca00f233a9de5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2aa9a3be0807310359i6b5dff83paab558ebbfd573bc@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Vladimir. Pal Date: 2008/7/31 Subject: Re: consolekit on 7.0-STABLE i386 To: sam 2008/7/31 sam Nate Eldredge wrote: > >> On Wed, 30 Jul 2008, sam wrote: >> >> hello >>> >>> my trouble >>> >>> >>> FreeBSD static 7.0-STABLE FreeBSD 7.0-STABLE #23: Mon Jul 28 18:10:51 MSD >>> 2008 root@static:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/STATIC i386 >>> >>> >>> ----------------------------top_output----------------------------- >>> |874 root 17 0 0 8296K 2660K waitvt 1 0:00 0.00% >>> console-kit-daemon| >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> ---------------------------vmstat_output--------------------------- >>> | procs memory page disks faults >>> cpu >>> r b w avm fre flt re pi po fr sr ad4 ad6 in sy cs >>> us sy id >>> 0 19 0 1113M 29M 493 1 0 0 265 129 0 0 133 45119 4588 >>> 8 5 87 >>> 0 20 0 1113M 29M 249 0 2 0 3311 0 0 22 157 7872 2262 >>> 5 7 88 >>> 0 19 0 1113M 29M 346 0 0 0 148 0 0 0 110 78963 1793 >>> 4 9 87 >>> 0 19 0 1113M 29M 115 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 105 5743 1731 >>> 13 1 85 >>> 0 19 0 1113M 29M 318 0 0 0 138 0 0 0 108 78837 1732 >>> 3 10 87 >>> 0 19 0 1113M 29M 112 0 0 0 32 0 0 1 100 5549 1682 >>> 11 1 88 >>> 0 19 0 1113M 29M 297 0 0 0 136 0 0 2 122 78880 1749 >>> 6 7 87 >>> |-------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> consolekit in |waitvt state, influencing on high volumes in procs-b >>> >> >> I don't understand what the problem is. It looks like consolekit is >> sleeping and not using any CPU. "waitvt" just indicates where in the kernel >> it's sleeping. I don't understand what you mean by "high volumes in >> procs-b". >> >> > I have too that problem. From fabien.thomas at netasq.com Thu Jul 31 07:46:38 2008 From: fabien.thomas at netasq.com (Fabien Thomas) Date: Thu Jul 31 11:26:43 2008 Subject: Announcement: PmcTools callchain capture for RELENG_7 In-Reply-To: <84dead720807122205i33bf6eb0p998d473df9e52304@mail.gmail.com> References: <84dead720807122205i33bf6eb0p998d473df9e52304@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <02AE4AED-5A25-4781-B710-4512DBEBF176@netasq.com> For those like me that need FreeBSD 6.3 support i can provide a patchset upon request (That have only been tested on system wide profiling). Fabien Le 13 juil. 08 ? 07:05, Joseph Koshy a ?crit : > Hello List(s), > > I am very pleased to announce a patch, by Fabien Thomas, that brings > PmcTools' callchain capture features to 7-STABLE. Thank you, Fabien! > > The patch is linked to from the PmcTools wiki page: > http://wiki.freebsd.org/PmcTools. > > The current file name is: "patch-callchain-FreeBSD-7- > STABLE-2008-07-12.gz". > As the file name indicates, it should apply against a 7-STABLE tree of > 2008-07-12 > vintage. > > To apply the patch: > % cd /home/src-7x # or whereever your RELENG_7 tree resides > % patch < PATCH-FILE > > Then you should follow the full procedure to update userland > and kernel from source as spelled out in src/UPDATING. > > Please note that HWPMC(4) log files that contain callchain > information are > not binary compatible with prior versions of pmc(3) and pmcstat(8). > > Please do test on your systems and let Fabien and me know > how you fared. > > Koshy > From richard at unixguru.nl Thu Jul 31 10:34:10 2008 From: richard at unixguru.nl (Richard Arends) Date: Thu Jul 31 11:27:11 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <20080731082618.GA2204@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <4891740F.7000305@moneybookers.com> <20080731082618.GA2204@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Message-ID: <20080731083718.GC959@shell.unixguru.nl> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 01:26:18AM -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: Hi, > FreeBSD has support for webcams? News to me. Luigi Rizzo was (is?) working on webcam support: http://info.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/FreeBSD/usb-cameras.html -- Regards, Richard. /* Homo Sapiens non urinat in ventum */ From tevans.uk at googlemail.com Thu Jul 31 12:06:18 2008 From: tevans.uk at googlemail.com (Tom Evans) Date: Thu Jul 31 12:06:25 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> Message-ID: <1217505964.78925.12.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 21:45 -0300, Carlos A. M. dos Santos wrote: > On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Achim Patzner wrote: > > Am 30.07.2008 um 18:40 schrieb Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav: > >> > >> I don't understand what Macs have to do with this - we're talking about > >> iX Systems's made-for-BSD laptop. > > > > The thread started with someone asking for a mobile computer that > > would support FreeBSD sufficiently and nobody came up with something > > fitting the bill (and being available somewhere). Considering the > > picture you're seeing at any place where more than two hardcore Unix > > users assemble you're seeing a majority of Macs. There has to be an > > obvious reason for that... I tried to break that habit more than once > > but right now the only comfortable way of running FreeBSD on a laptop > > is VMware Fusion on a Mac. Reading this entire thread convinced me > > even more. > > Please define "comfortable". I've been running FreeBSD 7.0 pretty > comfortably on my HP nx6320 for several months now. I never attempted > to use neither Bluetooth nor the fingerprint reader, so I don't miss > them. The only real drawback I've found was that the memory card > reader does not work. I also ran 8.0-CURRENT on a HP 6910p because 7.0 > did not support the WI-FI card. > > -- > Carlos Santos > Working, but not speaking (or advertising) for HP :-) Another happy BSD user on HP - nc6320 this time though. intel(4x) graphics, wpi(4) wifi, bge(4) networking, fwochi(4) firewire, serial port, plenty of USB ports. Even the fingerprint scanner works (security/libfprint). I don't use bluetooth or the card reader, so cannot comment on them. The one down side of my HP laptop is the HP BIOS refuses to start up with a different wifi card installed - I'd quite like to use an ath(4) based card.. I could imagine if you just need to play with an OS, or if you mainly develop the OS, running it under some sort of VM on a host system would be more useful. For me, running under VM would be a nightmare. Tom -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080731/00e8bb20/attachment.pgp From rainer at ultra-secure.de Thu Jul 31 12:34:07 2008 From: rainer at ultra-secure.de (Rainer Duffner) Date: Thu Jul 31 12:47:49 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <20080731110802.GB28990@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> <20080731100821.GA15213@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <20080731110802.GB28990@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Message-ID: <4891B134.5080303@ultra-secure.de> Jeremy Chadwick schrieb: > > > You just did it again -- anti-FreeBSD propaganda and pro-FreeBSD > propaganda in a single paragraph, followed by an oddly-skewed > server-to-desktop comparison, something about computer cosmetics, then a > strange comment about the beastie/Chuck which seems to be negative but > could be positive depending on how you look at it. > > But he has a point. Or better: I can see why he is so ambivalent. For some people it may be enough that you can boot a laptop with FreeBSD and it works with sound+gfx+wifi (if you buy wisely). E.g. it's OK for my Lifebook E8010 and it boots up fast enough so that not having ACPI suspend/resume isn't a drama. It also proved easier to upgrade than Ubuntu on the same hardware. But some people just want their notebook to work in the way it is intended to and with all features they actually paid money for. For those, Apple's offerings are hard to beat. Heck, Apple notebooks even beat Windows-notebooks from vendors who have been selling them for 10 or 15 years in terms of battery-life, mobility and usefulness on the road. No surprise here that FreeBSD loses out. Incidentially. if you go to a (BSD)-conference, even a lot of FreeBSD developers have Apple notebooks (not all, though - but you get Apple-logos galore...). Percentage may be even higher among CORE members - and there's nothing wrong about that. OTOH, I still prefer konsole and xterms on the above FreeBSD notebook, even compared to my (latest-generation) 24 inch iMac. It just feels "X'ier", if you know what I mean.... There are "voiced opinions" every couple of months that boil down to something along the line of: "Just get rid of all the [mobile|old|whatever] crap and concentrate on the server-space, I need [insert server-feature] more than I need this ACPI-stuff that didn't work for me anyway". But I don't think this leads anywhere ;-) Also, I feel it somehow denigrates the work committers do in this area - unpaid work, mostly (is anybody actually paid for hacking this stuff?), I assume. And isn't ACPI nowadays used universally to distribute resources (IRQs etc.) to expansion-cards, even in servers? cheers, Rainer From mwisnicki+freebsd at gmail.com Thu Jul 31 13:40:07 2008 From: mwisnicki+freebsd at gmail.com (Marcin Wisnicki) Date: Thu Jul 31 13:40:25 2008 Subject: Locale woes. References: <4890B595.5060103@sh.cvut.cz> <4890E215.2020304@sh.cvut.cz> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:50:13 +0200, V?clav Haisman wrote: > V?clav Haisman wrote, On 30.7.2008 20:40: >> Hi, >> I have some problem with locales on FreeBSD 6.3. The attached test case >> fails with uncaught std::runtime_error exception: > [...] > I am able to run the test case successfuly when I compile it with > STLport. So it seems there is something odd going on with just the > libstdc++ that ships with GCC. On the other hand, it works fine with GCC > 4.1.2 on Gentoo/Linux. Yes it is somewhat known problem that libstdc++ on FreeBSD does not support locales. I've seen some discussions about this in the past on freebsd lists. You can try searching archives, but AFAIR there was no solution except hints how to implement it. From frank at exit.com Thu Jul 31 14:15:09 2008 From: frank at exit.com (Frank Mayhar) Date: Thu Jul 31 14:15:23 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> <20080731100821.GA15213@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Message-ID: <1217513690.44523.3.camel@jill.exit.com> On Thu, 2008-07-31 at 12:48 +0200, Achim Patzner wrote: > Wrong on both counts. I'm just using the appropriate tools for the jobs > that need to be done. And on the desktop FreeBSD just plain sucks in > comparison to Mac OS. The problem is that you are expressing your opinion as if it is a Basic Fact of the Universe. It ain't. Get over it. (For the record, I've been running FreeBSD on laptops for, well, lots of years now. Not to mention on my main desktop system for a lot longer than that. I'm _very_ happy with it. On the other hand, the Mac interface annoys me endlessly. But of course that's _my_ opinion.) -- Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com http://www.exit.com/ Exit Consulting http://www.gpsclock.com/ http://www.exit.com/blog/frank/ http://www.zazzle.com/fmayhar* From mwm at mired.org Thu Jul 31 15:29:08 2008 From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer) Date: Thu Jul 31 16:10:53 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> Message-ID: <20080731112904.52255aac@mbook.local> On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:17:54 +0200 Achim Patzner wrote: > Getting X to run on the *censored* *even more censorship*? No problem, Like you say, it depends on what you want from X. Leopard's X was tolerable. Tiger broke full screen mode, and Apple doesn't have the resources to fix it. Running X tools in a Mac WM means you get the worst features of both, and I gave up on that after about 20 minutes. So I now run FreeBSD in VMWare - to get a usable X server and window manager. The apps - mostly from macports - all run under OSX. The application selection isn't as good as FreeBSD, but the results are about as close as you're going to get with full hardware support. FWIW, it looks like VirtualBox will have client-side tools support for FreeBSD in the next release (as in, it looks like it's in their repository), at which point that will become my preferred VM solution for FreeBSD clients. http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From dewey.hylton at gmail.com Thu Jul 31 17:52:27 2008 From: dewey.hylton at gmail.com (Dewey Hylton) Date: Thu Jul 31 17:52:34 2008 Subject: boot failure with twa device Message-ID: <3eec4c0d0807311027k66363ac5m17f600cb75d72f99@mail.gmail.com> anyone up to the task of helping me solve a freebsd boot problem? hardware: core2quad, 8gb ram, x16 pcie video, x16 pcie raid (3ware 9650se) motherboard: Asus P5N-E SLI / bios 1101 (20080707) amd64 bootcd: hangs when attempting to init raid (timeouts, bus resets) i386 bootcd: same as amd64 EXCEPT works with APIC disabled. results seem to be the same on 7.0-RELEASE, 7.0-STABLE-0807, and 8.0-CURRENT i don't believe it's pcie contention because replacing the video with pci yields same results and because this machine runs flawlessly, 64bit with APIC, with linux. can something possibly done, say hint.twa.0.xyz='foobar', to init the raid card as linux does? where do i start? bios for both raid and motherboard are up-to-date, but the symptoms were the same before and after updating both. thanks in advance; this one has me stumped and i haven't had luck with the lurkers in irc either. From v.haisman at sh.cvut.cz Thu Jul 31 20:49:13 2008 From: v.haisman at sh.cvut.cz (=?UTF-8?B?VsOhY2xhdiBIYWlzbWFu?=) Date: Thu Jul 31 20:49:21 2008 Subject: Locale woes. In-Reply-To: References: <4890B595.5060103@sh.cvut.cz> <4890E215.2020304@sh.cvut.cz> Message-ID: <48921EC7.70102@sh.cvut.cz> Marcin Wisnicki wrote, On 31.7.2008 15:23: > On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:50:13 +0200, V?clav Haisman wrote: > >> V?clav Haisman wrote, On 30.7.2008 20:40: >>> Hi, >>> I have some problem with locales on FreeBSD 6.3. The attached test case >>> fails with uncaught std::runtime_error exception: >> [...] >> I am able to run the test case successfuly when I compile it with >> STLport. So it seems there is something odd going on with just the >> libstdc++ that ships with GCC. On the other hand, it works fine with GCC >> 4.1.2 on Gentoo/Linux. > > Yes it is somewhat known problem that libstdc++ on FreeBSD does not > support locales. I've seen some discussions about this in the past on > freebsd lists. You can try searching archives, but AFAIR there was no > solution except hints how to implement it. > This is like...ugh!...totally unexpected. C locales seem to work and so do STLport's so I thought it was just some sort misconfiguration. (I had rebuilt the world more than once in past.) I have found some posts in -stable about it. It seems like it would be quite a lot of work to implement it, both, either implementing the required POSIX functionality or implementing it atop the existing. Sounds like nice GSoC task for somebody with more zeal than I have. -- VH -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 219 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/attachments/20080731/ccbd834d/signature.pgp From unixmania at gmail.com Thu Jul 31 23:26:31 2008 From: unixmania at gmail.com (Carlos A. M. dos Santos) Date: Thu Jul 31 23:26:38 2008 Subject: Laptop suggestions? In-Reply-To: <1217505964.78925.12.camel@localhost> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> <1217505964.78925.12.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 9:06 AM, Tom Evans wrote: > > On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 21:45 -0300, Carlos A. M. dos Santos wrote: >> Please define "comfortable". I've been running FreeBSD 7.0 pretty >> comfortably on my HP nx6320 for several months now. I never attempted >> to use neither Bluetooth nor the fingerprint reader, so I don't miss >> them. The only real drawback I've found was that the memory card >> reader does not work. I also ran 8.0-CURRENT on a HP 6910p because 7.0 >> did not support the WI-FI card. > Another happy BSD user on HP - nc6320 this time though. intel(4x) > graphics, wpi(4) wifi, bge(4) networking, fwochi(4) firewire, serial > port, plenty of USB ports. Even the fingerprint scanner works > (security/libfprint). > I don't use bluetooth or the card reader, so cannot comment on them. > > The one down side of my HP laptop is the HP BIOS refuses to start up > with a different wifi card installed - I'd quite like to use an ath(4) > based card.. Do you have an up-to-date BIOS? I had some problems booting from USB that I could solve using the latest BIOS version. -- If you think things can't get worse it's probably only because you lack sufficient imagination.