Minimalist FreeBSD 4.8

[Tyler Kellen]

Tim,

I've been pointed in the direction of the delete-and-reboot method a few
times before.  I'd really like some pointers for trimming down quickly
that doesn't involve hours of trial and error.

I don't need all of the functionality that base system offers.  When and
if I do, I'd like to put it on the system myself.

Just so you have a little background, I am a seasoned C & C++
programmer. I'm currently doing some web-based application development
utilizing asp/mssql.  In the past I've worked with php/postgresql.

I'm not a novice by a long shot when it comes to this sort of tinkering.
Even so this process has proved itself pretty daunting.

I find it much easier to learn when everything on my system was put
there by me (within reason).  I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I feel
like I can't get there with FreeBSD.  It bugs me to the point of turning
back to Linux.

I'm doing a make buildworld as we speak, hopefully going through this
process will help a bit.

What I'd really like to know is how to strip down a working system.  If
This hasn't been done, I guess I'm looking for someone with the
knowledge and the time/generosity to help me figure it out.  Once I get
there, I intend to post it on my website for other converts who may feel
the same way.

This forum is most likely going to be my last resort, as I have looked
pretty much everywhere I can think to look.  Is there anything else you
can offer to get me moving in the desired direction?

-T

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-freebsd-hackers at freebsd.org
[mailto:owner-freebsd-hackers at freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Tim Kientzle
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 12:42 PM
To: Tyler Kellen
Cc: freebsd-hackers at freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Minimalist FreeBSD 4.8

Tyler Kellen wrote:
> I've got a 4.8 minimal install on an extra machine. As an LFS user
> I find the FreeBSD 4.8 minimal install to be pretty far from minimal.

You've found one of the major differences between FreeBSD and Linux.
In short, FreeBSD is a complete system.  It's designed, developed,
and maintained as a single coherent project.  (There are a few
components that are imported from outside sources, but the key approach
is still the same:  the source code from those outside projects is
integrated into FreeBSD's source code and then maintained as a
part of the integrated FreeBSD project.)

In contrast, Linux distributions are assembled from the results
of a number of independently-managed projects.

As a result, it is quite natural to remove (or not install)
components of a Linux distribution.  This is a less natural
thing to do with FreeBSD.  It is possible, and minimal FreeBSD
systems are being used in a lot of embedded systems (such as
routers, email appliances, and the like), but it does require
a bit of expertise to get there.

 > I've checked
> out the PicoBSD project, the MiniBSD project and the FreeBSD From
> Scratch projects extensively. I'm not famillar enough with FreeBSD to
> get any of them up and running the way I want.

Those projects are intended more for people knowledgable about FreeBSD
who want to customize FreeBSD for specialized applications.
They really aren't designed for people just getting started.

 > I'm looking for a way to strip down my 4.8 box to nothing but gcc and
 > vi. Unfortunately I don't quite know how to get there.

 > I'm hoping to end up with an empty system that I can fool
 > around with and learn from the bottom up.

My advice:  start deleting things and see what happens.
You can always re-install from the CDROM and start over if
necessary.

In the case of FreeBSD, though, a better way to start learning the
system is probably to install a basic system, then learn how to compile
and update the system from source code, and then start playing with
the various customization options there (read "man make.conf" carefully,
experiment with kernel configuration, etc.).  That will help you get
a feel for how the various pieces interact and which ones are
important for what uses.  You may want to set yourself a goal
of building your own customized release CDs (e.g. "make release").
By the time you get there, you'll have a pretty good feel for
the FreeBSD system as a whole.  If you have programming skills,
you can then start digging into the source code and seeing how
it all works internally.  If not, you can still get a lot out
of browsing through the source tree to see what's there and
how it all fits together.

And, of course, read the mailing lists and ask questions.
You've already got that part.

FreeBSD is a great system.  Welcome to the club!

Tim Kientzle

_______________________________________________
freebsd-hackers at freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers
To unsubscribe, send any mail to
"freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe at freebsd.org"