From ekerberos at web.de Thu Oct 1 13:00:13 2009 From: ekerberos at web.de (Sisantha Godawela-Ohle) Date: Thu Oct 1 13:00:28 2009 Subject: freebsd-chat Digest, Vol 321, Issue 1 Message-ID: <1349874867@web.de> Hello everybody, would like to know as why is in FreeBSD v 8.0 RC1 successfull installation on hp Proliant DL 320 with gnome the gTerminal in System not available, although it is also installed? any clue would be appriciated. sincerely, sisantha PS. if this is not the right place to place the question, pl. kindly diket to (send me) the appropriste link, thanks. > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: > Gesendet: 30.09.09 14:00:57 > An: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > Betreff: freebsd-chat Digest, Vol 321, Issue 1 > Send freebsd-chat mailing list submissions to > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > freebsd-chat-request@freebsd.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > freebsd-chat-owner@freebsd.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of freebsd-chat digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... (Francisco Reyes) > 2. RE: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... (Rick N) > 3. Re: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... (soralx@cydem.org) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:42:13 -0400 > From: Francisco Reyes > Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... > To: Dieter > Cc: FreeBSD Chat List > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="US-ASCII" > > Moving to chat instead of performance. > > >> This was discussed in detail in slashdot.. starting with the fact that most > >> likely debug switches were not turned off for FreeBSD. > > > > "All of the FreeBSD and Ubuntu options were left at their defaults." > > > > My question is why is FreeBSD's disk i/o performance so bad? > > As I mentioned... this was discussed actively in slashdot. You will find > there many good comments on this. > > > Not just in the benchmarks with debugging on, but in real world usage > > where it actually matters. > > Are you saying this from actual experience or from reading other people's > comments? If it is from actual experience and XYZ version of Linux does a > particular job better then I don't see why you should not consider using > what works best. > > As someone who has had to use Redhat for over a year because that is what > this job uses... I would trade some performance for not having to deal with > all the peculiarities in Linux distros. > > Also, as mentioned in the slashdot article discussion, some of the reasons > Linux may do better on some operations are a tradeoff between > stability/security and speed. > > http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1384455 > > >From having to use Linux I have found some instances where FreeBSD may no > not be up to par (ie Java), but overall I would much rather use FreeBSD if I > had a choice. "Features" like the OOM killer are, in my opinion, extremely > poorly designed and likely worst executed. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:08:33 -0400 > From: Rick N > Subject: RE: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > "...Pick any colour you want, as long as its BLACK..." -its not always the car, its invariably the DRIVER !!! > > Obviously, as long that *IX works in your "real" world, then thats all that matters. > > > > Be situationally bound, NOT existentially. > > > > :) > > > > From: lists@stringsutils.com > > To: freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com > > Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:42:13 -0400 > > CC: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > > Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... > > > > Moving to chat instead of performance. > > > > >> This was discussed in detail in slashdot.. starting with the fact that most > > >> likely debug switches were not turned off for FreeBSD. > > > > > > "All of the FreeBSD and Ubuntu options were left at their defaults." > > > > > > My question is why is FreeBSD's disk i/o performance so bad? > > > > As I mentioned... this was discussed actively in slashdot. You will find > > there many good comments on this. > > > > > Not just in the benchmarks with debugging on, but in real world usage > > > where it actually matters. > > > > Are you saying this from actual experience or from reading other people's > > comments? If it is from actual experience and XYZ version of Linux does a > > particular job better then I don't see why you should not consider using > > what works best. > > > > As someone who has had to use Redhat for over a year because that is what > > this job uses... I would trade some performance for not having to deal with > > all the peculiarities in Linux distros. > > > > Also, as mentioned in the slashdot article discussion, some of the reasons > > Linux may do better on some operations are a tradeoff between > > stability/security and speed. > > > > http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1384455 > > > > >From having to use Linux I have found some instances where FreeBSD may no > > not be up to par (ie Java), but overall I would much rather use FreeBSD if I > > had a choice. "Features" like the OOM killer are, in my opinion, extremely > > poorly designed and likely worst executed. > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live helps you keep up with all your friends, in one place. > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660826 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 01:42:51 -0700 > From: > Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... > To: > Cc: freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com, lists@stringsutils.com > Message-ID: <20090930014251.4f827302@soralx> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > > Moving to chat instead of performance. > > > > >> This was discussed in detail in slashdot.. starting with the fact that > > >> most likely debug switches were not turned off for FreeBSD. > > > > > > "All of the FreeBSD and Ubuntu options were left at their defaults." > > > > > > My question is why is FreeBSD's disk i/o performance so bad? > > > > As I mentioned... this was discussed actively in slashdot. You will find > > there many good comments on this. > > Debug switches? Irrelevant, as 7.2 performed just as poorly (if not worse) > in the threaded random writes test. One would think that the unrealistically > poor [disk?] I/O performance bench data in FreeBSD was just a glitch, but > using the OS everyday as a workstation, I actually notice that there could > be some truth in those numbers. At least for ATA, when there's some disk I/O > going on, file write operations that normally take milliseconds, may take > tens of seconds or a minute! For example, loading the root disk with some > serious concurrent I/O (portupgrade, find, tar xz, etc) makes opera > unusable: the web browser normally saves "sessions" file everytime there's > a change (e.g., a tab closed, or a page scrolled), and usually the write > operation is unnoticeable, but with heavy disk I/O, one could wait for tens > of seconds before, say, a page gets scrolled following keyboard input. > > I thinks that stream [memory benchmark] may also be demonstrating a > weakness in FreeBSD, though I have doubts on this one. > > --- > [SorAlx] ridin' VN2000 Classic LT > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > End of freebsd-chat Digest, Vol 321, Issue 1 > ******************************************** > ______________________________________________________ GRATIS f?r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de From illoai at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 18:38:30 2009 From: illoai at gmail.com (illoai@gmail.com) Date: Fri Oct 2 18:38:36 2009 Subject: freebsd-chat Digest, Vol 321, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: <1349874867@web.de> References: <1349874867@web.de> Message-ID: 2009/10/1 Sisantha Godawela-Ohle : > Hello everybody, > > would like to know as why is in FreeBSD v 8.0 RC1 successfull installation on hp Proliant DL 320 with gnome > the gTerminal in System not available, although it is also installed? > any clue would be appriciated. > which gnome-terminal perhaps? > sincerely, > > sisantha > > PS. if this is not the right place to place the question, pl. kindly diket to (send me) the appropriste link, thanks. > > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org is probably the correct list, also, you will get better results if you compose a new mail to ask your questions. -- -- From GedankeZauberer at comcast.net Wed Oct 7 11:39:22 2009 From: GedankeZauberer at comcast.net (Allen) Date: Wed Oct 7 11:39:28 2009 Subject: FreeBSD text based games - Dungeoncrawl - My test box Message-ID: <4ACC7CE0.8070801@comcast.net> Hey everyone, A few weeks ago, I posted a message to this list, or advocacy, can't remember which since I'm on a different machine right now, but, anyway, I posted to the list asking everyone about games on FreeBSD for a pretty old machine (Going on a decade in fact, and it wasn't a bells and whistles box then either heh) so anyway, I wanted to post a follow up because quite a few people contacted me saying they liked these games too! Here are the specs on my test machine I've been using basically all the time over the last few weeks because, well, FreeBSD makes this machine able to do things some of my WAY faster boxes can't! Gateway Essentials EV500 15 inch Monitor Gateway Essentials PC, came with Windows 95 and Windows 98 8 MB ATI Video Card 433 MHz Celeron Processor The 9 GB drive it came with, when my Mom bought this years ago, started grinding. She told me about it and I explained how the thing was already old, couldn't run half the stuff She wanted anyway, and even though a HD replacement was easy fast and cheap, upgrading RAM for this thing and Video, wasn't. She bought a new PC, I slapped a nice new 80 GB drive in it, and popped Windows 2000 Professional, Slackware, and FreeBSD on it. The machine now only has a 3 GB Windows 98 SE partition on it so I can play Magic: The Gathering for PCs on it (The version I have is the original, it didn't work on NT, so it not only won't work on 2000, it won't even run on it) and then the rest of the disk is for FreeBSD. It came with 64 MBs RAM which I've upgraded (If you can call it that lol) to 192 MBs RAM. It's basically something I can test stuff on. Obviously, I'm not running KDE4 on it or anything like that. However, I WOULD like to point out how well this thing DOES work. A machine most people would toss out, has allowed me to make a very nice workstation! I do this because first I can't afford a brand new computer and my machines are becoming dated as it is, so I try making what I have work, and second, by choosing carefully I can make this work well! I'm using Thunderbird for one of my mail accounts, and Sylpheed-Claws for another account, and I have both running right now. I also use Galeon as a web browser. It's a crap load faster than Firefox could ever be, and works just fine, and I generally have Myspace, and a bunch of other tabs loaded all at once without much lag. I also have an FTP server set up so I can do back ups across the machines on my LAN. I have a main FTP server (The first computer I ever bought, Pentium 3 733MHz, 384 MBs RAM, Video card that can't really display a GUI anymore without having ugly lines everywhere looking like crap, running Slackware 12.2 and VSFTPd as I can upload back ups to it, and store it on the HDs I have installed on it, so I can have one central location to back up to, and then I also set one up on here even though it's only 80 GBs it lets me back up the important stuff in more than one spot. Anyway, this machine is also running Window Maker, since, like I said, KDE and GNOME would be pushing it, though they both do run on here, they do obviously lag a bit, and so I use Window Maker, Enlightenment, and I also like FVWM2, all of which I use on here depending on what I want it to look like :) All that and the machine still doesn't lag a whole lot, and I have myself logged into a bunch of TTYs with Elinks running for BOFH reading. I can barely do what I do on here, on my Laptop which has a Pentium 4 in it, @ 3.06 GHz and 512 MBs RAM. Games Related Part: So anyway, I wanted to try some of the text based games because they struck an interest in me, and I asked on here, and got a lot of replies. One game I've been playing a LOT, is Dungeoncrawl. I started playing, and after a few days of working out the controls and how it works, I started playing it for a while, and I really like it! My Wife, who has played MUDs before, which I don't really like and am not into, and who also knows Unix very well, also downloaded it and started playing it. She, like me, got hooked on it within a few days. Basically, She did the same thing I did; Downloaded the game, ran it, played, kind of wondered how it worked after not going to far in the Dungeon, and then after 2 days, couldn't stop playing! We also grabbed StoneSoup as I had read about it while looking up info about the game and I liked it too, but not as much. It's to bad they don't release this game more often though. Anyway, I was wondering how many people here play DungeonCrawl, what your best scores are, and more or less, this: When did you start playing Dungeoncrawl? (This is a little on topic since I didn't know the game existed until I saw it on the FreeBSD servers!) Do you have a fav character type? Personally, I started with the Wizard, then assn, and right now I've been going with Venom Mage because it's very interesting to me how powerful they get. My Wife likes the Orc fighters, and things like that, but has been appreciating the Mage parts too. I recently just got killed because I forgot to delete a bones file, and my Level 7 Venom Mage Ghost got me. (Took me a while to figure that out let me tell you heh, now if I do well, I try and delete those, but at the same time thought oh wow that was a cool idea! so sometimes I'll save a bones file for that reason). I also like the way the game is set up. I haven't been much into RPGs or any other type of game without a shotgun, so this is all new to me other than Magic The Gathering which I started playing in 1994. I like how I can set up my FreeBSD test machine, make an account for both my Wife and I, and then we can play this game on the same account without using our normal log in IDs, and by using an account just for this game, we can not only play and see who can do what, but we of course have the bones files too heh. So it's kind of neat how I can set up Telnet, or SSH, and then play a game from that, and then, if I want, set up an account for the game, and use that for my Wife and I to log into the box, and play on that account to see how we can do with the scores. Anyway, I'm just wondering about the other BSD DungeonCrawl fans and things like that. Also thanks to everyone who replied to my earlier message and gave me the links to the BSD Ports FTP, it was very helpful and I installed quite a bit of stuff :) Thanks! -Allen From jayton.garnett at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 12:34:13 2009 From: jayton.garnett at gmail.com (Jayton Garnett) Date: Wed Oct 7 12:34:19 2009 Subject: FreeBSD text based games - Dungeoncrawl - My test box In-Reply-To: <4ACC7CE0.8070801@comcast.net> References: <4ACC7CE0.8070801@comcast.net> Message-ID: Games? games? What are they? I do not understand this term - Games. I do know what you mean about using an older machine though, I have a P2 350Mhz (maybe 450mhz) with only 128mb ram in a small Slimline Compaq :) It ran FAMP, FTP, SSH and X pretty well and kept up with the (small amount) of requests. Only reason it has been 'decommissioned' is the hard drive failed during a house move where the PC must have got chucked around, it had the only copy left of my CMS (another hard drive had failed in my other PC that held the 'backup' of my website/CMS) and since then could not be bothered to rebuild my website/CMS as it had taken an age to get it to a decent state with plenty functionality. I too was impressed with the little 'beasts' performance, friends who used the FTP & SSH services thought it was a newer machine because it was quite nippy :) Back on topic then... Never tried these games you've talk about, although I do remember playing text based games 'back in the day' :) Cheers, Jayton From skeptikos at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 18:30:52 2009 From: skeptikos at gmail.com (christopher floess) Date: Wed Oct 7 18:30:59 2009 Subject: FreeBSD text based games - Dungeoncrawl - My test box In-Reply-To: References: <4ACC7CE0.8070801@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 5:08 AM, Jayton Garnett wrote: > Games? games? What are they? ?I do not understand this term - Games. I too dont play games, though the original post made me try nethack. I've been too busy to pursue it, but it wasn't bad. I just wanted to chime in about old machines. I had a 500 mHz Pentium that actually ran as my backup machine for quite some time, until a few months ago, when I had to clean house for the gf. Everytime one of my main machines went down because the motherboard died or the processor died or something else died, this thing fired up and ran as a stand in for a regular desktop for my school work. FreeBSD + fvwm2 worked just fine. If I remember correctly, I even used OpenOffice. It made things a little slow, but it was definitely usable, so papers were finished, programs were written :) The last time used it, I ran it as a webserver for a website to manage a group project for one of my professors. In return, I got an internship in Berlin. That's what I'm in the middle of right now. All in exchange for taking someones "trash". Bye everyone -- Chris From nicoal at nicoal.org Thu Oct 8 01:08:13 2009 From: nicoal at nicoal.org (ns) Date: Thu Oct 8 01:08:21 2009 Subject: FreeBSD text based games - Dungeoncrawl - My test box In-Reply-To: <4ACC7CE0.8070801@comcast.net> References: <4ACC7CE0.8070801@comcast.net> Message-ID: <43b097f60910071741q752389aag230bd8885a652d6e@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:34 AM, Allen wrote: > Anyway, I'm just wondering about the other BSD DungeonCrawl fans and things > like that. > Decided wanted to win in Crawl after ascending a fair amount in NetHack, won once with a Mountain Dwarf Fighter in Stone Soup version 0.3.4 and haven't played much since. Anyhow, there is a fairly large IRC community on Freenode in ##crawl and you can find information about the public server most use at http://crawl.akrasiac.org/ From GedankeZauberer at comcast.net Thu Oct 8 09:48:56 2009 From: GedankeZauberer at comcast.net (Allen) Date: Thu Oct 8 09:49:02 2009 Subject: FreeBSD text based games - Dungeoncrawl - My test box In-Reply-To: References: <4ACC7CE0.8070801@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4ACDB480.4090908@comcast.net> Jayton Garnett wrote: > Games? games? What are they? I do not understand this term - Games. > > > I do know what you mean about using an older machine though, I have a P2 > 350Mhz (maybe 450mhz) with only 128mb ram in a small Slimline Compaq :) It > ran FAMP, FTP, SSH and X pretty well and kept up with the (small amount) of > requests. Only reason it has been 'decommissioned' is the hard drive failed > during a house move where the PC must have got chucked around, it had the > only copy left of my CMS (another hard drive had failed in my other PC that > held the 'backup' of my website/CMS) and since then could not be bothered to > rebuild my website/CMS as it had taken an age to get it to a decent state > with plenty functionality. I too was impressed with the little 'beasts' > performance, friends who used the FTP & SSH services thought it was a newer > machine because it was quite nippy :) Yea it's amazing how an OS that's brand new, you download the thing, burn some CDs, and it not only installs and works, but does so faster, than an OS from like years ago like XP, which has like not even a 100th of the software, or functionality. I've always thought that was nice. It's like, you look at Vista and what you need, and once the shock is done, you think "WOW! no wonder these hardware guys like Dell and the others let Microsoft stay as the only choice you see on their main pages and rarely offer anything else other than the odd Linux Laptop or FreeDOS install which, sometimes doesn't even work, because they'll make more money back when people upgrade to use this crap!" > Back on topic then... Never tried these games you've talk about, although I > do remember playing text based games 'back in the day' :) > > Cheers, > Jayton From kdk at daleco.biz Thu Oct 8 22:08:04 2009 From: kdk at daleco.biz (Kevin Kinsey) Date: Thu Oct 8 22:08:10 2009 Subject: FreeBSD text based games - Dungeoncrawl - My test box In-Reply-To: References: <4ACC7CE0.8070801@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4ACE5B3B.2050902@daleco.biz> christopher floess wrote: > All in exchange for taking someones "trash". Indeed, you can run a piece of junk computer on FreeBSD and do things Windows never could ... well, I shouldn't say never, but it can't now, unless you're still willing to install 3.1 from floppy or Win95 from the 14th-generation CD-R copy of your original from 14 years ago. And, as far as "trash" goes, what I'd really love is to have someone's leftover "trash bandwidth". The resources should be *liberated* from the overlords! I just lost my backup MX and DNS system when the folks I had an agreement with decided to go DHCP/DSL (cheap) instead of a static business package. Now, if anyone's got that sort of trash lying around, wouldn't we all love to have a share? Just trolling, Oh, and games. It's like heroin. Don't start, or your life gets sucked into the monitor ;-) Thanks, Java, for six months of wasted life over the last 5 years. Kevin Kinsey From GedankeZauberer at comcast.net Fri Oct 9 01:28:09 2009 From: GedankeZauberer at comcast.net (Allen) Date: Fri Oct 9 01:28:16 2009 Subject: FreeBSD text based games - Dungeoncrawl - My test box In-Reply-To: <4ACE5B3B.2050902@daleco.biz> References: <4ACC7CE0.8070801@comcast.net> <4ACE5B3B.2050902@daleco.biz> Message-ID: <4ACE9098.3040602@comcast.net> Kevin Kinsey wrote: > christopher floess wrote: > > >> All in exchange for taking someones "trash". > > Indeed, you can run a piece of junk computer on FreeBSD > and do things Windows never could ... well, I shouldn't > say never, but it can't now, unless you're still willing > to install 3.1 from floppy or Win95 from the 14th-generation > CD-R copy of your original from 14 years ago. I wasn't around for those days... Heh, I have a fairly pristine copy of Windows 95 and two copies of Windows 98. They're in good condition because when I got my VERY first computer, my Mom bought it from my Uncle, it was running Windows 95, had I think a 133 MHz CPU, and like 32 MBs RAM, but I'm not even sure... This was September of 1999. I know the month and year I got my first Computer, because I had started using it, got hooked on the idea of a machine I controlled, and two weeks after getting it, without manuals to read, without help, I started screwing with it until I figured it out. Some people who know me think and say "How is it you can fix any computer no matter what it's running, without a manual, without classes... And you seem to understand how your fix worked?" and it's because the night I started, I still remember opening Microsoft Word, sitting there for two hours screwing with buttons on it, and then figuring out "OK, I highlight the text, and THEN press that "B" and then it's in Bold.. Ahh OK!" And then going from there. The next night I started messing with Explorer, and saw all the files and so on, and got how to move files around. I was lucky enough not to try system files. I just used dummy files. A week later, I was done with everything in the start menu except this "weird little box called MS-DOS prompt" which didn't seem to have many buttons, and typing stuff didn't help because it just said bad something or other"... Yea lol I know, dumb. Hadn't ever seen a command line before so cut me SOME slack though ;) You have to understand that before this, I had not ever touched any computer except for an AppleII for 5 minutes at school when I was like 4. So I literally had only touchbed a computer for 5 minutes before this and it was an Apple II I knew nothing about. On week two, I had learned what online meant, and "accidentally" watched my Uncle type in his Prodigy password to go online. He left for a week and I had un-restricted access. I still thought "Restart your computer" meant restarting it from scratch and I'd lose all programs, so I always shut it down and turned it back on after an installation, which I figured out myself too. So I wasn't by any means good at it. I saw the Prodigy home page and got online for the first time one afternoon, and thought "Wow.... This thing has neat pictures of Pamela Anderson" lol... Hey, I'm a German American and damn proud of that, we like nudity right? lol. And for a 17 year old punk rocker this was a new experience and I loved it. On week two of having a computer, I signed up for an account on Bolt.com and started learning what a social networking site did, and since they always said "this person joined on this date" that's how I knew when I got a computer; I had memorized it. So, I've had a computer since September of 1999, and within 6 months, I screwed up the machine bad by opening something by accident. See, within a few months, I learned what Computer Security meant. The idea someone could control a computer from somewhere else, grabbed me hard.I LOVED the idea of security in computers. I started slow by seeing what those weird DoS tools were, and thought "OK, annoying, but the idea is interesting" and then I started a virus collection because I didn't collect baseball cards and every boy needs a hobby ;) That would seal the fate of that PC. A friend I had met who was into this stuff too, said he found some great ones for my collection, and I grabbed a floppy disk to store them on, and he was like "by the way, one of these isn't Zipped, be careful" and I'm like "OK man".... I was a little side tracked by porn at the moment, and when I went to close a Window that had all my new viruses on it, I for some reason Double Clicked on the one he warned me about.... OK, just for the record, I was just collecting these. I wasn't infecting a Company or something, I just thought the idea of them was kind of neat, so I collected them. Just making sure no one thinks I was one of "those" kids. Now, this thing turned out not to be a virus at all. Instead, it turned into the ONLY ONLY ONLY .exe I've EVER come across that does PHYSICAL damage to a machine.... I'm in no way kidding. I saw what I had done fast.... I had went to close the window and accidentally double clicked on it instead and instantly hit for the power switch to shut the machine off.... It was to late though. I saw a DOS Prompt come up saying something or other, and when I turned the machine back on, it wouldn't even boot. This machine ran Windows 95, had a lot of MP3s, and some movies and pics. When that happened, I couldn't even get Windows 3.1 to install. A friend and I worked on it all the time, and I was shocked. I couldn't do anything.... I managed to install PC-DOS on this thing, and then when I tried to install Windows 3.1, it said the drive wasn't big enough! I the next day, went and bought my first paidfor computer, and used it insted which I still have, but the fact that later in life when I started using Linux, about a year later, I tried again to install Linux on the drive that thing killed. Linux wouldn't install either, it said the drive was screwed up and couldn't even fix it except for a small DOS partition which was like, a few MBs. I remember shutting the power off before it finished running, but it was FAST, and this thing actually killed somehow a portion of a disk drive, and had it run all the way probably wouldn't have allowed DOS either. Fdisk couldn't even work on it. I was literally shocked. 9 years later, I can still remember it, and I STILL have the floppy disk I copied all that stuff too he sent me that night. And yea, I STILL have that executable that destroyed my first PC lol. I didn't know about hardware at the time so the fact that a new drive would have been a better fix didn't cross my mind until it was too late and I had given the thing to a friend's Dad. To this day I don't know what's on that thing, and yes, I've popped the floppy in since then to look, and saw all those olden days of my later teen years sitting there... And the thing that ripped up the disk drive, which I've now zipped up and made a tarball just in case lol. I still have it, and friends have asked for a copy, and haven't ever figured it out either how it did all that. > > Oh, and games. It's like heroin. Don't start, or > your life gets sucked into the monitor ;-) > > Thanks, Java, for six months of wasted life over the last > 5 years. Java isn't Heroin, it's Crack ;) > Kevin Kinsey > ________________ From jayton.garnett at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 08:19:12 2009 From: jayton.garnett at gmail.com (Jayton Garnett) Date: Fri Oct 9 08:19:19 2009 Subject: FreeBSD text based games - Dungeoncrawl - My test box In-Reply-To: <4ACE9098.3040602@comcast.net> References: <4ACC7CE0.8070801@comcast.net> <4ACE5B3B.2050902@daleco.biz> <4ACE9098.3040602@comcast.net> Message-ID: Sounds like you probably caused the damage to the disk by powering down while it was trying to write to the disk and if you 'smashed' the power button it's possible you hit the case hard enough to rumble the drive causing physical damage ;) of course it's also possible the EXE was written to change the geom of the drive at chip level. If you're really interested you can reverse engineer it to see exactly what it does ;) From soralx at cydem.org Fri Oct 9 09:10:53 2009 From: soralx at cydem.org (soralx@cydem.org) Date: Fri Oct 9 09:11:00 2009 Subject: FreeBSD text based games - Dungeoncrawl - My test box In-Reply-To: <4ACE9098.3040602@comcast.net> References: <4ACC7CE0.8070801@comcast.net> <4ACE5B3B.2050902@daleco.biz> <4ACE9098.3040602@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20091009021044.44f46591@soralx> > Now, this thing turned out not to be a virus at all. Instead, it turned > into the ONLY ONLY ONLY .exe I've EVER come across that does PHYSICAL > damage to a machine.... I'm in no way kidding. > > I saw what I had done fast.... I had went to close the window and > accidentally double clicked on it instead and instantly hit for the > power switch to shut the machine off.... It was to late though. I saw a > DOS Prompt come up saying something or other, and when I turned the > machine back on, it wouldn't even boot. > > This machine ran Windows 95, had a lot of MP3s, and some movies and > pics. When that happened, I couldn't even get Windows 3.1 to install. > > A friend and I worked on it all the time, and I was shocked. I couldn't > do anything.... I managed to install PC-DOS on this thing, and then when > I tried to install Windows 3.1, it said the drive wasn't big enough! > > I the next day, went and bought my first paidfor computer, and used it > insted which I still have, but the fact that later in life when I > started using Linux, about a year later, I tried again to install Linux > on the drive that thing killed. > > Linux wouldn't install either, it said the drive was screwed up and > couldn't even fix it except for a small DOS partition which was like, a > few MBs. could it be that the program simply changed disk geometry in BIOS to something small, and you did not notice? [SorAlx] ridin' VN2000 Classic LT From GedankeZauberer at comcast.net Fri Oct 9 21:00:40 2009 From: GedankeZauberer at comcast.net (Allen) Date: Fri Oct 9 21:00:47 2009 Subject: FreeBSD text based games - Dungeoncrawl - My test box In-Reply-To: References: <4ACC7CE0.8070801@comcast.net> <4ACE5B3B.2050902@daleco.biz> <4ACE9098.3040602@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4ACFA373.608@comcast.net> Jayton Garnett wrote: > Sounds like you probably caused the damage to the disk by powering down > while it was trying to write to the disk and if you 'smashed' the power > button it's possible you hit the case hard enough to rumble the drive > causing physical damage ;) of course it's also possible the EXE was > written to change the geom of the drive at chip level. > > If you're really interested you can reverse engineer it to see exactly > what it does ;) The Power button on that machine, was one of those oldschool ones that actually cut power, so I didn't have to push it hard or anything, and I know it didn't damage the disk itself, because like I said, it still worked, just completely screwed the thing. I'm not sure about the geom part, but shouldn't Fdisk be able to change that when you do a fresh format of the drive using the DOS version AND the Linux tools to try and format? the drive did format but for some reason it said it was really small after. It was odd. I can't reverse engineer since my coding skills are basically hello world in everything except HTML and Perl, so not much that would otherwise help. Anyway, the only one I hadn't thought of was the geom part. I was thinking about finding an old crap drive and putting Windows 95 on it to try out that floppy again and see if now I could fix it since my skills in computing have grown quite a lot since that time. -Allen From jayton.garnett at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 21:50:55 2009 From: jayton.garnett at gmail.com (Jayton Garnett) Date: Fri Oct 9 21:51:02 2009 Subject: FreeBSD text based games - Dungeoncrawl - My test box In-Reply-To: <4ACFA373.608@comcast.net> References: <4ACC7CE0.8070801@comcast.net> <4ACE5B3B.2050902@daleco.biz> <4ACE9098.3040602@comcast.net> <4ACFA373.608@comcast.net> Message-ID: Please do I'd be interested too see if it fries the BIOS or hard drive geom on the drives ROM's ;) heck if you send it to me I'd try it out on my old compaq (P2) & a old 4Gb drive I have. Recently I've been installing FreeBSD on flash drives and Windows 7 can not see the FreeBSD partition and it completely fools Windows into thinking it's only a 3Gb drive, I guess this could be the same for older fdisk utils. I tried out some of these viruses that 'burn' your hard drive and at most they corrupted the partition and I'd have to fdisk again. Jay > Anyway, the only one I hadn't thought of was the geom part. I was thinking > about finding an old crap drive and putting Windows 95 on it to try out that > floppy again and see if now I could fix it since my skills in computing have > grown quite a lot since that time. > > -Allen > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From abhoriel at googlemail.com Fri Oct 9 22:44:02 2009 From: abhoriel at googlemail.com (Abhoriel) Date: Fri Oct 9 22:44:08 2009 Subject: FreeBSD text based games - Dungeoncrawl - My test box In-Reply-To: <4ACE9098.3040602@comcast.net> References: <4ACC7CE0.8070801@comcast.net> <4ACE5B3B.2050902@daleco.biz> <4ACE9098.3040602@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1255130219.12416.1.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2009-10-08 at 21:23 -0400, Allen wrote: > Kevin Kinsey wrote: > > christopher floess wrote: > > > > > >> All in exchange for taking someones "trash". > > > > Indeed, you can run a piece of junk computer on FreeBSD > > and do things Windows never could ... well, I shouldn't > > say never, but it can't now, unless you're still willing > > to install 3.1 from floppy or Win95 from the 14th-generation > > CD-R copy of your original from 14 years ago. > > I wasn't around for those days... Heh, I have a fairly pristine copy of > Windows 95 and two copies of Windows 98. They're in good condition > because when I got my VERY first computer, my Mom bought it from my > Uncle, it was running Windows 95, had I think a 133 MHz CPU, and like 32 > MBs RAM, but I'm not even sure... This was September of 1999. > > I know the month and year I got my first Computer, because I had started > using it, got hooked on the idea of a machine I controlled, and two > weeks after getting it, without manuals to read, without help, I started > screwing with it until I figured it out. > > Some people who know me think and say "How is it you can fix any > computer no matter what it's running, without a manual, without > classes... And you seem to understand how your fix worked?" and it's > because the night I started, I still remember opening Microsoft Word, > sitting there for two hours screwing with buttons on it, and then > figuring out "OK, I highlight the text, and THEN press that "B" and then > it's in Bold.. Ahh OK!" And then going from there. The next night I > started messing with Explorer, and saw all the files and so on, and got > how to move files around. I was lucky enough not to try system files. I > just used dummy files. > > A week later, I was done with everything in the start menu except this > "weird little box called MS-DOS prompt" which didn't seem to have many > buttons, and typing stuff didn't help because it just said bad something > or other"... Yea lol I know, dumb. Hadn't ever seen a command line > before so cut me SOME slack though ;) You have to understand that before > this, I had not ever touched any computer except for an AppleII for 5 > minutes at school when I was like 4. So I literally had only touchbed a > computer for 5 minutes before this and it was an Apple II I knew nothing > about. > > On week two, I had learned what online meant, and "accidentally" watched > my Uncle type in his Prodigy password to go online. > > He left for a week and I had un-restricted access. I still thought > "Restart your computer" meant restarting it from scratch and I'd lose > all programs, so I always shut it down and turned it back on after an > installation, which I figured out myself too. So I wasn't by any means > good at it. > > I saw the Prodigy home page and got online for the first time one > afternoon, and thought "Wow.... This thing has neat pictures of Pamela > Anderson" lol... Hey, I'm a German American and damn proud of that, we > like nudity right? lol. And for a 17 year old punk rocker this was a new > experience and I loved it. > > On week two of having a computer, I signed up for an account on Bolt.com > and started learning what a social networking site did, and since they > always said "this person joined on this date" that's how I knew when I > got a computer; I had memorized it. So, I've had a computer since > September of 1999, and within 6 months, I screwed up the machine bad by > opening something by accident. > > See, within a few months, I learned what Computer Security meant. The > idea someone could control a computer from somewhere else, grabbed me > hard.I LOVED the idea of security in computers. I started slow by seeing > what those weird DoS tools were, and thought "OK, annoying, but the idea > is interesting" and then I started a virus collection because I didn't > collect baseball cards and every boy needs a hobby ;) > > That would seal the fate of that PC. A friend I had met who was into > this stuff too, said he found some great ones for my collection, and I > grabbed a floppy disk to store them on, and he was like "by the way, one > of these isn't Zipped, be careful" and I'm like "OK man".... > > I was a little side tracked by porn at the moment, and when I went to > close a Window that had all my new viruses on it, I for some reason > Double Clicked on the one he warned me about.... > > OK, just for the record, I was just collecting these. I wasn't infecting > a Company or something, I just thought the idea of them was kind of > neat, so I collected them. Just making sure no one thinks I was one of > "those" kids. > > Now, this thing turned out not to be a virus at all. Instead, it turned > into the ONLY ONLY ONLY .exe I've EVER come across that does PHYSICAL > damage to a machine.... I'm in no way kidding. > > I saw what I had done fast.... I had went to close the window and > accidentally double clicked on it instead and instantly hit for the > power switch to shut the machine off.... It was to late though. I saw a > DOS Prompt come up saying something or other, and when I turned the > machine back on, it wouldn't even boot. > > This machine ran Windows 95, had a lot of MP3s, and some movies and > pics. When that happened, I couldn't even get Windows 3.1 to install. > > A friend and I worked on it all the time, and I was shocked. I couldn't > do anything.... I managed to install PC-DOS on this thing, and then when > I tried to install Windows 3.1, it said the drive wasn't big enough! > > I the next day, went and bought my first paidfor computer, and used it > insted which I still have, but the fact that later in life when I > started using Linux, about a year later, I tried again to install Linux > on the drive that thing killed. > > Linux wouldn't install either, it said the drive was screwed up and > couldn't even fix it except for a small DOS partition which was like, a > few MBs. > > I remember shutting the power off before it finished running, but it was > FAST, and this thing actually killed somehow a portion of a disk drive, > and had it run all the way probably wouldn't have allowed DOS either. > > Fdisk couldn't even work on it. I was literally shocked. > > 9 years later, I can still remember it, and I STILL have the floppy disk > I copied all that stuff too he sent me that night. And yea, I STILL have > that executable that destroyed my first PC lol. I didn't know about > hardware at the time so the fact that a new drive would have been a > better fix didn't cross my mind until it was too late and I had given > the thing to a friend's Dad. > > To this day I don't know what's on that thing, and yes, I've popped the > floppy in since then to look, and saw all those olden days of my later > teen years sitting there... And the thing that ripped up the disk drive, > which I've now zipped up and made a tarball just in case lol. > > I still have it, and friends have asked for a copy, and haven't ever > figured it out either how it did all that. > > > > > Oh, and games. It's like heroin. Don't start, or > > your life gets sucked into the monitor ;-) > > > > Thanks, Java, for six months of wasted life over the last > > 5 years. > > Java isn't Heroin, it's Crack ;) > > > Kevin Kinsey > > ________________ > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Viruses which flash your BIOS have been done before, and therefore effectively damage hardware. As for your disk, try filling it with 0s and then start again. Jonathan From reed at reedmedia.net Mon Oct 12 17:03:08 2009 From: reed at reedmedia.net (Jeremy C. Reed) Date: Mon Oct 12 17:03:15 2009 Subject: documenting code Message-ID: What do you use (tools or techniques) for documenting code for design decisions, code examples, history of API/ABI changes, graphical supplements (like design diagrams), etc? I'd like to generate both webpages that have full details plus manpages that have the synopsis, descriptions, return values, etc, but not all the design decisions nor images (of course) nor code examples which may be too long for a succinct manual page. I don't want to document in multiple places -- don't want to be redundant. I'd like to keep this documentation very near the code (even embedded) so when code is updated, it is easy to remember or do the documentation also. The code is mostly a mix of Python and C++. Do you use pydoc and/or doxygen? I see doxygen can insert images into the documentation, so could be used to insert design diagrams. And doxygen has conditional \if and \ifnot for conditionally showing or not showing documentation (which could be used for manpages versus complete HTML). I don't see image or manual page support for pydoc. If you have any examples (original documentation and rendered results in HTML and man), please let me know. Also if you have any developer guidelines that include documentation guidelines, please let me know. From wblock at wonkity.com Thu Oct 15 20:05:02 2009 From: wblock at wonkity.com (Warren Block) Date: Thu Oct 15 20:05:09 2009 Subject: The Interrupted FAQ Message-ID: Interrupted Unix FAQ 1.0, 2009-01-31 Warren Block Q. Sendmail doesn't... A. Fix DNS. Q. Why don't my cron jobs... A. Use full paths. Q. tcsh doesn't... A. rehash Q. glxgears... A. Is not a benchmark. -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA From jayton.garnett at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 07:29:00 2009 From: jayton.garnett at gmail.com (Jayton Garnett) Date: Fri Oct 16 07:29:07 2009 Subject: The Interrupted FAQ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Q. I'm confused... A. Keep taking those pills. From jhell at DataIX.net Fri Oct 16 08:44:18 2009 From: jhell at DataIX.net (jhell) Date: Fri Oct 16 08:44:24 2009 Subject: The Interrupted FAQ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 03:05, jayton.garnett@ wrote: > Q. I'm confused... > A. Keep taking those pills. > HaAhahaHa.... Silence .... ha... "Your good!" -- ;; dataix.net!jhell 2048R/89D8547E 2009-09-30 ;; BSD since FreeBSD 4.2 Linux since Slackware 2.1 ;; 85EF E26B 07BB 3777 76BE B12A 9057 8789 89D8 547E From jamesthefishy at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 10:29:18 2009 From: jamesthefishy at gmail.com (james michael) Date: Fri Oct 16 10:29:25 2009 Subject: The Interrupted FAQ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AD84631.3090603@gmail.com> Q. Whereis doesn't... A. portsnap fetch extract Q. Flash doesn't... A. exactly, it doesn't and it won't. Warren Block wrote: > Interrupted Unix FAQ 1.0, 2009-01-31 > Warren Block > > Q. Sendmail doesn't... > A. Fix DNS. > > Q. Why don't my cron jobs... > A. Use full paths. > > Q. tcsh doesn't... > A. rehash > > Q. glxgears... > A. Is not a benchmark. > > -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From carpetsmoker at rwxrwxrwx.net Fri Oct 16 11:23:22 2009 From: carpetsmoker at rwxrwxrwx.net (Martin Tournoij) Date: Fri Oct 16 11:23:34 2009 Subject: The Interrupted FAQ In-Reply-To: <4AD84631.3090603@gmail.com> References: <4AD84631.3090603@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091016110814.GA26204@rwxrwxrwx.net> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 03:08:49AM -0700, james michael wrote: > Q. Whereis doesn't... > A. portsnap fetch extract > > Q. Flash doesn't... > A. exactly, it doesn't and it won't. > > > Warren Block wrote: > > Interrupted Unix FAQ 1.0, 2009-01-31 > > Warren Block > > > > Q. Sendmail doesn't... > > A. Fix DNS. > > > > Q. Why don't my cron jobs... > > A. Use full paths. > > > > Q. tcsh doesn't... > > A. rehash > > > > Q. glxgears... > > A. Is not a benchmark. > > > > -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA A: Top-posting. Q: What is more annoying than ... -- Martin Tournoij carpetsmoker@rwxrwxrwx.net | (+031) 621 991 576 http://www.carpetsmoker.net | http://www.daemonforums.org QOTD: It's easier to take it apart than to put it back together. -- Washlesky From carpetsmoker at rwxrwxrwx.net Fri Oct 16 11:23:22 2009 From: carpetsmoker at rwxrwxrwx.net (Martin Tournoij) Date: Fri Oct 16 11:23:35 2009 Subject: The Interrupted FAQ In-Reply-To: <4AD84631.3090603@gmail.com> References: <4AD84631.3090603@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091016110814.GA26204@rwxrwxrwx.net> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 03:08:49AM -0700, james michael wrote: > Q. Whereis doesn't... > A. portsnap fetch extract > > Q. Flash doesn't... > A. exactly, it doesn't and it won't. > > > Warren Block wrote: > > Interrupted Unix FAQ 1.0, 2009-01-31 > > Warren Block > > > > Q. Sendmail doesn't... > > A. Fix DNS. > > > > Q. Why don't my cron jobs... > > A. Use full paths. > > > > Q. tcsh doesn't... > > A. rehash > > > > Q. glxgears... > > A. Is not a benchmark. > > > > -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA A: Top-posting. Q: What is more annoying than ... -- Martin Tournoij carpetsmoker@rwxrwxrwx.net | (+031) 621 991 576 http://www.carpetsmoker.net | http://www.daemonforums.org QOTD: It's easier to take it apart than to put it back together. -- Washlesky From jamesthefishy at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 19:54:04 2009 From: jamesthefishy at gmail.com (james michael) Date: Fri Oct 16 19:54:10 2009 Subject: The Interrupted FAQ In-Reply-To: <20091016110814.GA26204@rwxrwxrwx.net> References: <4AD84631.3090603@gmail.com> <20091016110814.GA26204@rwxrwxrwx.net> Message-ID: <4AD8D004.30901@gmail.com> top posting is fine... Q. Who sets the standard for email lists? A. NO ONE Martin Tournoij wrote: > On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 03:08:49AM -0700, james michael wrote: > >> Q. Whereis doesn't... >> A. portsnap fetch extract >> >> Q. Flash doesn't... >> A. exactly, it doesn't and it won't. >> >> >> Warren Block wrote: >> >>> Interrupted Unix FAQ 1.0, 2009-01-31 >>> Warren Block >>> >>> Q. Sendmail doesn't... >>> A. Fix DNS. >>> >>> Q. Why don't my cron jobs... >>> A. Use full paths. >>> >>> Q. tcsh doesn't... >>> A. rehash >>> >>> Q. glxgears... >>> A. Is not a benchmark. >>> >>> -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA >>> > > A: Top-posting. > Q: What is more annoying than ... > > From jamesthefishy at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 20:21:36 2009 From: jamesthefishy at gmail.com (james michael) Date: Fri Oct 16 20:21:43 2009 Subject: The Interrupted FAQ In-Reply-To: <20091016110814.GA26204@rwxrwxrwx.net> References: <4AD84631.3090603@gmail.com> <20091016110814.GA26204@rwxrwxrwx.net> Message-ID: <4AD8D004.30901@gmail.com> top posting is fine... Q. Who sets the standard for email lists? A. NO ONE Martin Tournoij wrote: > On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 03:08:49AM -0700, james michael wrote: > >> Q. Whereis doesn't... >> A. portsnap fetch extract >> >> Q. Flash doesn't... >> A. exactly, it doesn't and it won't. >> >> >> Warren Block wrote: >> >>> Interrupted Unix FAQ 1.0, 2009-01-31 >>> Warren Block >>> >>> Q. Sendmail doesn't... >>> A. Fix DNS. >>> >>> Q. Why don't my cron jobs... >>> A. Use full paths. >>> >>> Q. tcsh doesn't... >>> A. rehash >>> >>> Q. glxgears... >>> A. Is not a benchmark. >>> >>> -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA >>> > > A: Top-posting. > Q: What is more annoying than ... > > From vince at unsane.co.uk Fri Oct 16 20:29:38 2009 From: vince at unsane.co.uk (Vincent Hoffman) Date: Fri Oct 16 20:29:45 2009 Subject: The Interrupted FAQ In-Reply-To: <4AD8D004.30901@gmail.com> References: <4AD84631.3090603@gmail.com> <20091016110814.GA26204@rwxrwxrwx.net> <4AD8D004.30901@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AD8D7B0.3040803@unsane.co.uk> Q. what colour should we paint.. A. Green A. Purple A. Orange A. Pink A. White etc etc ;) james michael wrote: > top posting is fine... > > Q. Who sets the standard for email lists? > A. NO ONE > > Martin Tournoij wrote: >> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 03:08:49AM -0700, james michael wrote: >> >>> Q. Whereis doesn't... >>> A. portsnap fetch extract >>> >>> Q. Flash doesn't... >>> A. exactly, it doesn't and it won't. >>> >>> >>> Warren Block wrote: >>> >>>> Interrupted Unix FAQ 1.0, 2009-01-31 >>>> Warren Block >>>> >>>> Q. Sendmail doesn't... >>>> A. Fix DNS. >>>> >>>> Q. Why don't my cron jobs... >>>> A. Use full paths. >>>> >>>> Q. tcsh doesn't... >>>> A. rehash >>>> >>>> Q. glxgears... >>>> A. Is not a benchmark. >>>> >>>> -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA >>>> >> >> A: Top-posting. >> Q: What is more annoying than ... >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From jgrosch at es.net Fri Oct 16 20:38:28 2009 From: jgrosch at es.net (Josef Grosch) Date: Fri Oct 16 20:38:34 2009 Subject: The Interrupted FAQ In-Reply-To: <4AD8D7B0.3040803@unsane.co.uk> References: <4AD84631.3090603@gmail.com> <20091016110814.GA26204@rwxrwxrwx.net> <4AD8D004.30901@gmail.com> <4AD8D7B0.3040803@unsane.co.uk> Message-ID: <4AD8D9C2.4040700@es.net> How do you build a bike shed ? Vincent Hoffman wrote: > Q. what colour should we paint.. > A. Green > A. Purple > A. Orange > A. Pink > A. White > etc etc > > ;) > > james michael wrote: >> top posting is fine... >> >> Q. Who sets the standard for email lists? >> A. NO ONE >> >> Martin Tournoij wrote: >>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 03:08:49AM -0700, james michael wrote: >>> >>>> Q. Whereis doesn't... >>>> A. portsnap fetch extract >>>> >>>> Q. Flash doesn't... >>>> A. exactly, it doesn't and it won't. >>>> >>>> >>>> Warren Block wrote: >>>> >>>>> Interrupted Unix FAQ 1.0, 2009-01-31 >>>>> Warren Block >>>>> >>>>> Q. Sendmail doesn't... >>>>> A. Fix DNS. >>>>> >>>>> Q. Why don't my cron jobs... >>>>> A. Use full paths. >>>>> >>>>> Q. tcsh doesn't... >>>>> A. rehash >>>>> >>>>> Q. glxgears... >>>>> A. Is not a benchmark. >>>>> >>>>> -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA >>>>> >>> A: Top-posting. >>> Q: What is more annoying than ... >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Josef Grosch Email : jgrosch@es.net Computer Systems Engineer Office : 510-486-6597 Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory Cell : 510-207-9976 From vince at unsane.co.uk Fri Oct 16 20:44:02 2009 From: vince at unsane.co.uk (Vincent Hoffman) Date: Fri Oct 16 20:44:09 2009 Subject: The Interrupted FAQ In-Reply-To: <4AD8D9C2.4040700@es.net> References: <4AD84631.3090603@gmail.com> <20091016110814.GA26204@rwxrwxrwx.net> <4AD8D004.30901@gmail.com> <4AD8D7B0.3040803@unsane.co.uk> <4AD8D9C2.4040700@es.net> Message-ID: <4AD8DB0C.2000906@unsane.co.uk> Josef Grosch wrote: > How do you build a bike shed ? > > Or what colour do you paint one :) (build was original but colour more freebsd related) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson's_Law_of_Triviality > > Vincent Hoffman wrote: >> Q. what colour should we paint.. >> A. Green >> A. Purple >> A. Orange >> A. Pink >> A. White >> etc etc >> >> ;) >> >> james michael wrote: >>> top posting is fine... >>> >>> Q. Who sets the standard for email lists? >>> A. NO ONE >>> >>> Martin Tournoij wrote: >>>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 03:08:49AM -0700, james michael wrote: >>>> >>>>> Q. Whereis doesn't... >>>>> A. portsnap fetch extract >>>>> >>>>> Q. Flash doesn't... >>>>> A. exactly, it doesn't and it won't. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Warren Block wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Interrupted Unix FAQ 1.0, 2009-01-31 >>>>>> Warren Block >>>>>> >>>>>> Q. Sendmail doesn't... >>>>>> A. Fix DNS. >>>>>> >>>>>> Q. Why don't my cron jobs... >>>>>> A. Use full paths. >>>>>> >>>>>> Q. tcsh doesn't... >>>>>> A. rehash >>>>>> >>>>>> Q. glxgears... >>>>>> A. Is not a benchmark. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA >>>>>> >>>> A: Top-posting. >>>> Q: What is more annoying than ... >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list >>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From GedankeZauberer at comcast.net Sat Oct 17 04:55:01 2009 From: GedankeZauberer at comcast.net (Allen) Date: Sat Oct 17 04:55:08 2009 Subject: Quickie question Message-ID: <200910170053.52329.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> Hey all, I know this SHOULD go to FreeBSD-Questions, but I'm trying to fix up a machine right now, so I don't have normal access to my mail account, and this is the only one I can send to without spending a half hour redoing something, so please allow this once to ask here: On my test machine, I noticed the usual mail to root letting me know that there were some security problems in a few things I have installed, like Opera and Thunderbird, and so I first did a freebsd-update to get the base system updated to make sure that was done, and I also did portupdate on those packages like this: portupdate -v opera I did it on pidgin and realized it couldn't sign in anymore and thought "Oh man, one of those I'm tired errors" I forgot to update the other parts, so rather than make a huge list of stuff to update, I did this: portupdate or portupgrade -a to get them all. After I did this, I noticed that pkg_add -r no longer lets me add things. It says that it has no access or can't be found. Just to be sure I did pkg_add -r kde and got the same message (I already have KDE, I did it to see if it was just me spelling it wrong) I know I missed something... I just can't for the life of me find out what... I know I'm doing something wrong though. So anyway, after running it with -a, what should I have done? Why would a few things stop working ? Did I do something terribly stupid? The network connection is fine, I checked that, it's just that I can't use pkg_add -r anymore. From tonyt at logyst.com Sat Oct 17 05:39:30 2009 From: tonyt at logyst.com (Tony Theodore) Date: Sat Oct 17 05:39:36 2009 Subject: Quickie question In-Reply-To: <200910170053.52329.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> References: <200910170053.52329.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <22166b750910162217m17b423aam135d4e3abc755236@mail.gmail.com> > > So anyway, after running it with -a, what should I have done? Why would a few > things stop working ? Did I do something terribly stupid? The network > connection is fine, I checked that, it's just that I can't use pkg_add -r > anymore. I think portupgrade -a will have updated all packages to the latest versions, and pkg_add -r won't be able to find a newer one to install. Try adding a package that you don't already have installed and see what happens. Tony From alexsm at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 05:57:27 2009 From: alexsm at gmail.com (Alex Moura) Date: Sat Oct 17 05:57:34 2009 Subject: Quickie question In-Reply-To: <22166b750910162217m17b423aam135d4e3abc755236@mail.gmail.com> References: <200910170053.52329.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> <22166b750910162217m17b423aam135d4e3abc755236@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: What does portversion -l \< or pkg_version -l \< says? Alex On 17/10/2009, at 02:17, Tony Theodore wrote: >> >> So anyway, after running it with -a, what should I have done? Why >> would a few >> things stop working ? Did I do something terribly stupid? The network >> connection is fine, I checked that, it's just that I can't use >> pkg_add -r >> anymore. > > I think portupgrade -a will have updated all packages to the latest > versions, and pkg_add -r won't be able to find a newer one to install. > Try adding a package that you don't already have installed and see > what happens. > > Tony > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat- > unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From GedankeZauberer at comcast.net Sat Oct 17 06:09:55 2009 From: GedankeZauberer at comcast.net (Allen) Date: Sat Oct 17 06:10:02 2009 Subject: Quickie question In-Reply-To: <22166b750910162217m17b423aam135d4e3abc755236@mail.gmail.com> References: <200910170053.52329.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> <22166b750910162217m17b423aam135d4e3abc755236@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200910170208.46267.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> On Saturday 17 October 2009 01:17:21 am Tony Theodore wrote: > I think portupgrade -a will have updated all packages to the latest > versions, and pkg_add -r won't be able to find a newer one to install. > Try adding a package that you don't already have installed and see > what happens. Hey, thanks for answering ! OK, here is what happens if I try something like asclock which wasn't installed: pkg_add -r asclock Error: FTP Unable to get ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/freebsd/ports/i386/packages-7.1-release/Latest/asclock.tbz File unavailable (e.g., File not found, no access) pkg_add: unable to fetch 'ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/freebsd/ports/i386/packages-7.1-release/Latest/asclock.tbz' by URL So basically, if I try to use pkg_add -r now, it won't work. It didn't happen until I did the upgrading or updating, so I'm thinking I made a screw up. Thansk again for the quick response :) > Tony -Allen From GedankeZauberer at comcast.net Sat Oct 17 06:23:48 2009 From: GedankeZauberer at comcast.net (Allen) Date: Sat Oct 17 06:23:54 2009 Subject: Quickie Question Message-ID: <200910170222.38966.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> >It seems your ports tree can be broken somehow. Maybe after a >portsnap fetch extract update >you can try again and see what happens? Actually that was my first thought so I'm glad I seem to be starting in the right spot. When I realized it wasn't working, I did this: portsnap fetch extract update And it ran for me, and still does this. I'm going to try this next: pkgdb -F Just to see if anything happened, and because it's probably a good idea heh ;) Thanks much for letting me ask this here while my other mail is still waiting on fixes! -Allen From tonyt at logyst.com Sat Oct 17 06:52:59 2009 From: tonyt at logyst.com (Tony Theodore) Date: Sat Oct 17 06:53:05 2009 Subject: Quickie question In-Reply-To: <200910170208.46267.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> References: <200910170053.52329.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> <22166b750910162217m17b423aam135d4e3abc755236@mail.gmail.com> <200910170208.46267.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <22166b750910162352r58d0eeb3t7916dc2064fb493c@mail.gmail.com> 2009/10/17 Allen : > On Saturday 17 October 2009 01:17:21 am Tony Theodore wrote: > >> I think portupgrade -a will have updated all packages to the latest >> versions, and pkg_add -r won't be able to find a newer one to install. >> Try adding a package that you don't already have installed and see >> what happens. > > Hey, thanks for answering ! > > OK, here is what happens if I try something like asclock which wasn't > installed: > > pkg_add -r asclock > Error: FTP Unable to get > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/freebsd/ports/i386/packages-7.1-release/Latest/asclock.tbz > File unavailable (e.g., File not found, no access) > pkg_add: unable to > fetch 'ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/freebsd/ports/i386/packages-7.1-release/Latest/asclock.tbz' > by URL > > So basically, if I try to use pkg_add -r now, it won't work. It didn't happen > until I did the upgrading or updating, so I'm thinking I made a screw up. OK, so if you have a look at the contents of ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/, it seems 7.1 packages are no longer being built. Not sure there's much you can do apart from using ports or upgrading. From GedankeZauberer at comcast.net Sat Oct 17 07:58:45 2009 From: GedankeZauberer at comcast.net (Allen) Date: Sat Oct 17 07:58:52 2009 Subject: Quickie question In-Reply-To: <22166b750910162352r58d0eeb3t7916dc2064fb493c@mail.gmail.com> References: <200910170053.52329.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> <200910170208.46267.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> <22166b750910162352r58d0eeb3t7916dc2064fb493c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200910170357.35767.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> On Saturday 17 October 2009 02:52:56 am Tony Theodore wrote: *Snipped for politeness* > OK, so if you have a look at the contents of > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/, it seems 7.1 packages > are no longer being built. Not sure there's much you can do apart from > using ports or upgrading. Hey, Thanks for letting me know about that. I didn't know. I heard the other day on here that 7.1 had a longer life cycle than 7.2 so I hadn't upgraded as I planned on waiting for 8.0, but I guess it's time to just go ahead and upgrade. I'm still getting used to FreeBSD's update VS upgrade style, because even though I've had FreeBSD since 4.0, I would usually set up a machine running it and then use it for fun projects to toy with, but didn't ever set up servers on it because I was confused for a long time on how you did security patching. This was mostly because I came from a very Linux oriented background in computing (I've only had a computer for... Well since 1999, so I'm by no means a guru at anything) but on Linux and Windows, you just install patches and that's it, and on Linux for example; You just download a patch as a security fix, install or update the thing, and you're done. Slackware is what I run on my main FTP server, and there, I use Swaret now, but before I'd just use wget to grab a new tgz package, and use upgradepkg to get the machine patched, so when I got to FreeBSD patches, I was very confused because I couldn't figure out why freebsd-update didn't patch opera lol. Yea I know, stupidity lol. Then I realized that freebsd-update did EXACTLY what it was supposed to do, updating the base system, and that all those things were ports, and I needed to update THOSE to fix those security holes. So now I was like OK, I'll update the base with freebsd-update, and then when I go and get new ports, I can use portsnap and portupdate / upgrade... And I was like wow, I can just cd into the ports directory and build them, neat! So it's been a learning experience, but at the same time, I took so much longer than I should have, I felt pretty stupid when I realized what I was doing wrong. Is there a configuration file somewhere that pkg_add checks? I mean I know there has to be one somewhere... Couldn't I change the server listed to use one on freebsd.org/ports ? That way I could still install packages with it? Anyway, thanks very much for all the help everyone! I'm going to probably upgrade, just got a lot of back ups to get done because I was using it as a secondary FTP server too heh. -Allen From solarux at hotmail.com Sat Oct 17 15:23:28 2009 From: solarux at hotmail.com (Rick N) Date: Sat Oct 17 15:23:35 2009 Subject: The Interrupted FAQ In-Reply-To: <4AD8DB0C.2000906@unsane.co.uk> References: <4AD84631.3090603@gmail.com> <20091016110814.GA26204@rwxrwxrwx.net> <4AD8D004.30901@gmail.com> <4AD8D7B0.3040803@unsane.co.uk> <4AD8D9C2.4040700@es.net> <4AD8DB0C.2000906@unsane.co.uk> Message-ID: Q. Regular Expressions ... ? A. :) :( ;) ... > Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:43:56 +0100 > From: vince@unsane.co.uk > To: jgrosch@es.net > CC: chat@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: The Interrupted FAQ > > Josef Grosch wrote: > > How do you build a bike shed ? > > > > > Or what colour do you paint one :) (build was original but colour more > freebsd related) > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson's_Law_of_Triviality > > > > > Vincent Hoffman wrote: > >> Q. what colour should we paint.. > >> A. Green > >> A. Purple > >> A. Orange > >> A. Pink > >> A. White > >> etc etc > >> > >> ;) > >> > >> james michael wrote: > >>> top posting is fine... > >>> > >>> Q. Who sets the standard for email lists? > >>> A. NO ONE > >>> > >>> Martin Tournoij wrote: > >>>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 03:08:49AM -0700, james michael wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Q. Whereis doesn't... > >>>>> A. portsnap fetch extract > >>>>> > >>>>> Q. Flash doesn't... > >>>>> A. exactly, it doesn't and it won't. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Warren Block wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Interrupted Unix FAQ 1.0, 2009-01-31 > >>>>>> Warren Block > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Q. Sendmail doesn't... > >>>>>> A. Fix DNS. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Q. Why don't my cron jobs... > >>>>>> A. Use full paths. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Q. tcsh doesn't... > >>>>>> A. rehash > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Q. glxgears... > >>>>>> A. Is not a benchmark. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA > >>>>>> > >>>> A: Top-posting. > >>>> Q: What is more annoying than ... > >>>> > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > >>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" _________________________________________________________________ New: Messenger sign-in on the MSN homepage http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677403 From des at des.no Sat Oct 17 15:33:53 2009 From: des at des.no (=?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) Date: Sat Oct 17 15:34:00 2009 Subject: Quickie question In-Reply-To: <200910170357.35767.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> (Allen's message of "Sat, 17 Oct 2009 03:57:35 -0400") References: <200910170053.52329.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> <200910170208.46267.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> <22166b750910162352r58d0eeb3t7916dc2064fb493c@mail.gmail.com> <200910170357.35767.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <86tyxy3uhs.fsf@ds4.des.no> Allen writes: > Thanks for letting me know about that. I didn't know. I heard the other day on > here that 7.1 had a longer life cycle than 7.2 so I hadn't upgraded as I > planned on waiting for 8.0, but I guess it's time to just go ahead and > upgrade. # frebesd-update -r 7.2-RELEASE upgrade After upgrading, download the ports tree: # portsnap fetch install # portupgrade -a In a month or so, do it again with 8.0-RELEASE, and run # portsnap fetch update # portupgrade -af This will rebuild *all* your ports, not just those that are out-of-date. Strongly recommended when upgrading to a new major release. BTW, this belongs on -questions, not on -chat. DES -- Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav - des@des.no From des at des.no Sat Oct 17 15:34:49 2009 From: des at des.no (=?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) Date: Sat Oct 17 15:34:55 2009 Subject: Quickie question In-Reply-To: <86tyxy3uhs.fsf@ds4.des.no> ("Dag-Erling =?utf-8?Q?Sm=C3=B8rg?= =?utf-8?Q?rav=22's?= message of "Sat, 17 Oct 2009 17:33:51 +0200") References: <200910170053.52329.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> <200910170208.46267.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> <22166b750910162352r58d0eeb3t7916dc2064fb493c@mail.gmail.com> <200910170357.35767.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> <86tyxy3uhs.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: <86pr8m3ug8.fsf@ds4.des.no> Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav writes: > After upgrading, download the ports tree: > > # portsnap fetch install sorry, that should be "fetch extract". DES -- Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav - des@des.no From GedankeZauberer at comcast.net Sat Oct 17 20:32:17 2009 From: GedankeZauberer at comcast.net (Allen) Date: Sat Oct 17 20:34:28 2009 Subject: Quickie question In-Reply-To: <86tyxy3uhs.fsf@ds4.des.no> References: <200910170053.52329.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> <200910170357.35767.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> <86tyxy3uhs.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: <200910171631.05802.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> On Saturday 17 October 2009 11:33:51 am Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: > Allen writes: > > Thanks for letting me know about that. I didn't know. I heard the other > > day on here that 7.1 had a longer life cycle than 7.2 so I hadn't > > upgraded as I planned on waiting for 8.0, but I guess it's time to just > > go ahead and upgrade. > > # frebesd-update -r 7.2-RELEASE upgrade > > After upgrading, download the ports tree: > > # portsnap fetch install > # portupgrade -a > > In a month or so, do it again with 8.0-RELEASE, and run > > # portsnap fetch update > # portupgrade -af > > This will rebuild *all* your ports, not just those that are out-of-date. > Strongly recommended when upgrading to a new major release. Ahh thankls, I knew there was a way to upgrade everything without actually grabbing the CDs. I grabbed the ISO images for 7.2 just in case a few weeks ago, but I kinda like the upgrading over the net thing, and I haven't ever done that before, I think I'll try that. > BTW, this belongs on -questions, not on -chat. I know, that's why I was saying thank you for allowing me to ask this here since at the moment, and still, my normal email account, and all the lists, are not usable yet (The machine is building itself from sources, can't get to the mail) did a quickie kmail configure on another machine, but I don't have all my lists and filters and anything else, and only this list is actually coming in. FreeBSD-Questions isn't showing up right now, not sure why but I'll check that later on, got a busy day today. Thanks again! > DES -Allen From olli at lurza.secnetix.de Mon Oct 19 13:45:21 2009 From: olli at lurza.secnetix.de (Oliver Fromme) Date: Mon Oct 19 13:45:28 2009 Subject: Quickie question In-Reply-To: <200910170357.35767.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200910191344.n9JDimaX048824@lurza.secnetix.de> Allen wrote: > On Saturday 17 October 2009 02:52:56 am Tony Theodore wrote: > > OK, so if you have a look at the contents of > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/, it seems 7.1 packages > > are no longer being built. Not sure there's much you can do apart from > > using ports or upgrading. > > Thanks for letting me know about that. I didn't know. I heard the other day on > here that 7.1 had a longer life cycle than 7.2 so I hadn't upgraded as I > planned on waiting for 8.0, but I guess it's time to just go ahead and > upgrade. AFAIK this has nothing to do with the life cycle of 7.1. The older packages (and 7.1 is regarded as older) have been moved from the main FTP site to ftp-archive.freebsd.org. You can still use the pkg_add tool with 7.1, you just have to set the PACKAGESITE environment variable to the place where the packages are located. This has to be the full URL including the path where the files are to be found. See the pkg_add(1) manual page for detals, or ask Google. However, note that the releaase packages are never updated. If you want to update packages beyond the versions as of the release, you need to follow the 7-stable packages. (Or use the ports collection via portsnap, csup or similar, but it seems you don't want to do that.) Of course, updating to a newer version of FreeBSD is not an entirely bad idea either. ;-) Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch?ftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M?n- chen, HRB 125758, Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "Perl will consistently give you what you want, unless what you want is consistency." -- Larry Wall From GedankeZauberer at comcast.net Mon Oct 19 21:18:13 2009 From: GedankeZauberer at comcast.net (Allen) Date: Mon Oct 19 21:18:32 2009 Subject: Quickie question In-Reply-To: <200910191344.n9JDimaX048824@lurza.secnetix.de> References: <200910191344.n9JDimaX048824@lurza.secnetix.de> Message-ID: <200910191716.43652.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> On Monday 19 October 2009 09:44:48 am Oliver Fromme wrote: > Allen wrote: > > On Saturday 17 October 2009 02:52:56 am Tony Theodore wrote: > > > OK, so if you have a look at the contents of > > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/, it seems 7.1 packages > > > are no longer being built. Not sure there's much you can do apart from > > > using ports or upgrading. > > > > Thanks for letting me know about that. I didn't know. I heard the other > > day on here that 7.1 had a longer life cycle than 7.2 so I hadn't > > upgraded as I planned on waiting for 8.0, but I guess it's time to just > > go ahead and upgrade. > > AFAIK this has nothing to do with the life cycle of 7.1. > The older packages (and 7.1 is regarded as older) have been > moved from the main FTP site to ftp-archive.freebsd.org. > > You can still use the pkg_add tool with 7.1, you just have > to set the PACKAGESITE environment variable to the place > where the packages are located. This has to be the full > URL including the path where the files are to be found. > See the pkg_add(1) manual page for detals, or ask Google. I've been doing some reading on this lately because I wanted to know what the best option would be, and since I do have a test machine set up almost the same as the one in question, I think my best bet is just to upgrade to a new version. I have... mm basically every book you can buy from FreeBSDMall, but I've noticed the upgrade process is different in some of them, so I think I'm going to just read the online one in the FreeBSD Docs as it should be the more updated version, and just try out a new one. > However, note that the releaase packages are never updated. > If you want to update packages beyond the versions as of > the release, you need to follow the 7-stable packages. > (Or use the ports collection via portsnap, csup or similar, > but it seems you don't want to do that.) > > Of course, updating to a newer version of FreeBSD is not > an entirely bad idea either. ;-) Yea, I think this is my best bet since from what I've been reading so far, they're talking about the 6.x branch AND 7.x branch being outdated soon, and 8.0 is going to be the only one that's... I can't recall the exact wording, but being a guy I just took a mental note saying "OK, when 8.0 comes out, upgrade, or do a fresh install, because the others aren't going to be worked on as much". I've been reading up on this a lot because, coming from a mostly Linux background, the way STABLE and RELEASE are used is a little bit different. I don't use RedHat or anything like that because I just don't like it, but Slackware, SUSE, and Debian I do use, (SUSE has been a favorite OS of mine for a long time. And having a friendship with their head security guy is nice too) so I was like hmm, STABLE seems like the one I should use for my test server, but BSD in general is stable as any OS you find anyway, so I usually used RELEASE not realizing that it was not the best idea because it would save me a lot of time if I was to just use Stable. > Best regards > Oliver Sehr danke ! -Allen -- http://www.myspace.com/farmacyofhorror Digital Horror Punk - Music I make! All done with LMMS All done with Linux and FreeBSD From enpershyaam at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 05:58:03 2009 From: enpershyaam at gmail.com (Team Ads) Date: Tue Oct 20 05:58:10 2009 Subject: Web Site Designing & SEO (internet marketing) for low cost - Coim batore, INDIA Message-ID: DOES you company need any of Team Ad's. Coimba Web Mob: +91 99422 20302, 92624 01244 mail us - admi ______________________________________ Our Best Services: ([1]htt - Web Desig - Domain name Registration / Hosting - - Web - SEO (Internet marketing)   < - E-Brochures - Brochures - Business Cards - Letter Heads - and many more. Offer: 1. Static website designing+Domain (5 Navigati Sheet etc,) - 3,500* Rs (80$) ([2]http://ww 2. SEO (Internet Marketing) see our key results in our site . 20 Keywords - 2000 Rs (45$) per . 20 Keywords - 10,000 Rs (225$) for 6 Months. ([3]http://www.teamads.com) 3. Dynamic Website . Starts (Admin control, Add/Edit/Update/Delete Lists, N etc,) ([4]http://www.te For more information logon Online Yahoo ( enpershyaam ) Skype ( enpersh G-talk  ( enpershyaam ) < Office Timings: 10.00 AM - 08 Working Day Monday - Saturday Thank you, Shyaam (Prop.) < References 1. 3D"http://www.teamads.com"/ 2. 3D"http://www.teamads.com"/ 3. 3D"http://www=/ 4. 3D"http://www.teamads.com"/ 5. 3D"http://ww=/ From sgeorge.ml at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 04:43:46 2009 From: sgeorge.ml at gmail.com (Siju George) Date: Tue Oct 27 04:43:53 2009 Subject: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Message-ID: <70692839.3662827.1256616974349.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn12.prod> LinkedIn ------------ I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Siju Accept Siju George's invite: https://www.linkedin.com/e/isd/822150554/z6daB0B6/ ------ (c) 2009, LinkedIn Corporation From freebsd-questions-local at be-well.ilk.org Tue Oct 27 19:22:47 2009 From: freebsd-questions-local at be-well.ilk.org (Lowell Gilbert) Date: Tue Oct 27 19:22:53 2009 Subject: Why is sendmail is part of the system and not a package? In-Reply-To: <200910271647.12382.gnemmi@gmail.com> (Gonzalo Nemmi's message of "Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:47:12 -0200") References: <200910271543.39876.gnemmi@gmail.com> <87skd47m54.fsf@kobe.laptop> <200910271647.12382.gnemmi@gmail.com> Message-ID: <44k4ygzmyz.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Green! No, no, Blue! AAaaaagggghhhh -- Lowell Gilbert, embedded/networking software engineer, Boston area http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/ From traveling08 at cox.net Tue Oct 27 22:07:46 2009 From: traveling08 at cox.net (Robert) Date: Tue Oct 27 22:07:53 2009 Subject: Why is sendmail is part of the system and not a package? In-Reply-To: <44k4ygzmyz.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> References: <200910271543.39876.gnemmi@gmail.com> <87skd47m54.fsf@kobe.laptop> <200910271647.12382.gnemmi@gmail.com> <44k4ygzmyz.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Message-ID: <20091027145321.16ea4c99@asus64> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:54:44 -0400 Lowell Gilbert wrote: > Green! No, no, Blue! AAaaaagggghhhh > I think it should be disque shaped. From kdk at daleco.biz Tue Oct 27 23:02:20 2009 From: kdk at daleco.biz (Kevin Kinsey) Date: Tue Oct 27 23:02:42 2009 Subject: Why is sendmail is part of the system and not a package? In-Reply-To: <200910271956.56741.gnemmi@gmail.com> References: <200910271844.18697.gnemmi@gmail.com> <44fx94zg4x.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <200910271956.56741.gnemmi@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AE77B0C.1020605@daleco.biz> Gonzalo Nemmi wrote: > On Tuesday 27 October 2009 7:22:22 pm Lowell Gilbert wrote: >> I probably should move this bikeshed to freebsd-chat... I'd like the bikeshed blue, please. Also, since Sendmail has reached maturity, let's baptize it now instead of during infancy, and add a knob FEATURE(require_calvinism). Also, I'm attending the annual meeting of my Sendmail Users Anonymous Group (SMAUG) tomorrow (it's annual because there are SO FEW of us we had to scour the world to find a quorum and it makes economic sense to to meet just once a year), where I'll ask Pope Eric to call up troops to end this holy war on this list once and for all. I'm sharpening blades in the shop even as I write this! DEUS VULT!!!! 'Nuff ... please? Kevin Kinsey From freebsd-questions-local at be-well.ilk.org Tue Oct 27 23:50:39 2009 From: freebsd-questions-local at be-well.ilk.org (Lowell Gilbert) Date: Tue Oct 27 23:50:46 2009 Subject: Why is sendmail is part of the system and not a package? In-Reply-To: <200910271956.56741.gnemmi@gmail.com> (Gonzalo Nemmi's message of "Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:56:56 -0200") References: <200910271844.18697.gnemmi@gmail.com> <44fx94zg4x.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <200910271956.56741.gnemmi@gmail.com> Message-ID: <44aazc8khl.fsf@lowell-desk.lan> Gonzalo Nemmi writes: > On Tuesday 27 October 2009 7:22:22 pm Lowell Gilbert wrote: >> I probably should move this bikeshed to freebsd-chat... And now I actually am... >> Gonzalo Nemmi writes: >> > On Tuesday 27 October 2009 6:20:35 pm Frank Shute wrote: >> >> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 09:24:58PM +0200, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: >> >> I can imagine that a lot of people do use sendmail - it's >> >> documented in the handbook for starters. If it was taken out and >> >> replaced with another MTA then there would be complaints that >> >> sendmail has been taken out or "replacement MTA" is the "wrong >> >> one". >> > >> > Well .. someday UFS will be replaced by ZFS .. >> >> Maybe. That's still quite a way out, and who knows what else will >> come along in the meantime? > > HammerFS? > A heavily armed Oracle lawyers squad team with 9mm. and willing to use > them without a second thught?? > Just a joke =P Seriously, though, something new could come up. Probably with Apple or Google support. >> > .. and one day Perl >> > just dissapeard from base .. yet the worl kept turning, and even >> > better .. no one got hurt ;) >> >> I remember quite a bit of pain. It was worth it, because maintaining >> perl in the base was causing pain on an ongoing basis, but it was a >> problem for users in a number of different ways. > > See what I mean? > It actually paid off for most people .. but do you remember all the > complaining that went on back then? > What makes it any different now? > > And what would you say ... removing perl was more daunting that > replacing Senmail? Honest question. Perl was harder. No question. But it also had clear benefits, and people willing to put in the work to make it happen. I would be just fine with replacing sendmail in the base system with postfix, but there's nobody lining up to do the work the way there was five years ago for removing perl. I would actually be just as happy to see *no* MTA in the base system, but the installer work to keep that from violating the Principle Of Least Astonishment is even more tricky than replacing sendmail with something else. >> > in the other hand, those not complaining, will probably be really >> > happy .. so ... >> >> So you keep saying, but I don't think there's any solid evidence. >> Your experience is one thing, but although I consider myself a >> postfix user, I have machines that run sendmail because it just >> worked for their purpose with no configuration at all. > > Didn't the same thing happen when perl was removed? > Some complaining, some cheering ... Everyone knew why it was necessary. Well, probably not "everyone," but those of us who'd been upgrading machines through several FreeBSD versions knew that perl was breaking regularly. That simply isn't the case with sendmail. For a server, it's a lot harder to configure than (anything else), but that's *completely* different from the active breakage that perl went through with every minor release of perl. >> > Doesn't ZFS mean that you have to reconfigure (or even reinstall) >> > your system? >> >> No. Your old configuration works just fine if you still want to keep >> using it. You won't get the advantages of ZFS, but having it in >> FreeBSD didn't bre > > Oh, sorry Lowell, I mean you had to reconfigure (or even reinstall) if > you want to make use of it :) > Sorry, I should've been more clear about that. Sure. But this isn't the case. You're talking about removing something that people are already using, not adding something that people will have to make major changes to start using in the future. So it does not in any way help your argument. -- Lowell Gilbert, embedded/networking software engineer, Boston area http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/ From olli at lurza.secnetix.de Wed Oct 28 15:27:05 2009 From: olli at lurza.secnetix.de (Oliver Fromme) Date: Wed Oct 28 15:27:12 2009 Subject: Why is sendmail is part of the system and not a package? In-Reply-To: <44aazc8khl.fsf@lowell-desk.lan> Message-ID: <200910281526.n9SFQlK0038627@lurza.secnetix.de> Lowell Gilbert wrote: > Gonzalo Nemmi writes: > > On Tuesday 27 October 2009 7:22:22 pm Lowell Gilbert wrote: > > > Gonzalo Nemmi writes: > > > > Well .. someday UFS will be replaced by ZFS .. I don't see a reason why UFS should be removed anytime soon. If that happens, then that would be in a very distant future when nobody is using UFS anymore (and I'm not talking about FreeBSD only). > > And what would you say ... removing perl was more daunting that > > replacing Senmail? Honest question. > > Perl was harder. No question. *Replacing* sendmail is completely different from *removing* perl, both technically and historically. > I would actually be just as happy to see *no* MTA in the base system, > but the installer work to keep that from violating the Principle Of > Least Astonishment is even more tricky than replacing sendmail with > something else. There needs to be at least an LDA in the base system, unless you don't care about cron jobs and other things working correctly. I think many users *do* care. It doesn't have to be a fully-featured MTA, though, but at least it should be capable of queueing, remote delivery, support for aliases, forwarding and a few other things. Sendmail currently does all of that on FreeBSD out of the box with zero configuration efforts, just one line in rc.conf (sendmail_enable="NO") which will start up the queue daemon, listen for local mails and deliver them. If someone wants to replace sendmail with postfix (or any other MTA; there are quite a few to chose from), it must be made sure that there is no change from a users point of view, i.e. the above rc.conf line should continue to work just the same way. But then again, if there is no user- visible change, then why bother to change anything at all? Those who need to run a "real" mail server that accepts remote mail (probably a small minority) can install their favourite-MTA-of-the-day from the ports collection. Oh, by the way, I would like the bike shed painted orange. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch?ftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M?n- chen, HRB 125758, Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "[...] one observation we can make here is that Python makes an excellent pseudocoding language, with the wonderful attribute that it can actually be executed." -- Bruce Eckel From stb at lassitu.de Thu Oct 29 19:42:37 2009 From: stb at lassitu.de (Stefan Bethke) Date: Thu Oct 29 19:42:45 2009 Subject: Fwd: BSD meeting - Wed Nov 4 evening Cambridge, MA References: <20091028230859.GA43772@cons.org> Message-ID: <862FA087-DBC3-4074-A340-8ECB82494E6C@lassitu.de> Three RSVPs so far. Anfang der weitergeleiteten E-Mail: > Von: Martin Cracauer > Datum: 28. Oktober 2009 19:08:59 GMT-04:00 > Betreff: BSD meeting - Wed Nov 4 evening > > Well, this is the list of interested parties. There were more for a > dinner meeting. > > So I'll say: > - Wed, Nov 4, 2009. > - 7 p.m. > - Koreana, 154 Prospect St, Cambridge, MA > > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=koreana+cambridge&ie=UTF8&om=1&hq=koreana&hnear=Cambridge,+MA&t=h&z=16&iwloc=A > > I would have preferred that Indian place where we met a couple years > back but alas you can rent the space now :-/ > > If Korean or Koreana doesn't work for anybody let us know, I think we > are a small enough group to be adjust. > > You can park on the other side of Prospect Street on the large parking > lot belonging to Whole Foods between Koreana and Central Square, it is > free parking in the evening. (this is not the couple spots right in > front of the whole foods door, use the one adjacent to Bishop Allen > Drive). > > Public transportation: > - Red Line Central Square (note that what the train announcer says is > "Cambridge Center" is not Central Square, that is Kendall) > - walk north-north-east to the third street (Broadway) > > Hope that works for you. > > Martin > -- > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer/ > FreeBSD - where you want to go, today. http://www.freebsd.org/ -- Stefan Bethke Fon +49 151 14070811 From randi at freebsd.org Fri Oct 30 08:50:42 2009 From: randi at freebsd.org (Randi Harper) Date: Fri Oct 30 08:50:53 2009 Subject: Why is sendmail is part of the system and not a package? In-Reply-To: <200910301018.25483.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> References: <4AE5F897.3000103@rawbw.com> <20091029182739.GA22923@ei.bzerk.org> <20091029145843.Q98757@qroenaqrq.6qbyyneqvnyhc.pbz> <200910301018.25483.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> Message-ID: MAKE THE PAIN STOP. Seriously, read back in the friggin' mailing list archives. None of y'all are going to say anything that hasn't been said before. Or don't, and just prove how valuable your time isn't by wasting it arguing about something that everyone else is just rolling their eyes at and ignoring, as they've seen it all before. This bikeshed is old and tired. I don't want to paint it. I want to drown it in lighter fluid and set it on fire. -- randi From lists at loveturtle.net Fri Oct 30 13:56:54 2009 From: lists at loveturtle.net (Dillon Kass) Date: Fri Oct 30 13:57:00 2009 Subject: Why is sendmail is part of the system and not a package? In-Reply-To: References: <4AE5F897.3000103@rawbw.com> <20091029182739.GA22923@ei.bzerk.org> <20091029145843.Q98757@qroenaqrq.6qbyyneqvnyhc.pbz> <200910301018.25483.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> Message-ID: <4AEAECE0.1040704@loveturtle.net> QMAIL SHOULD BE IN THE BASE SYSTEM INSTEAD!!!!!! lololololololololol From astrodog at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 21:13:13 2009 From: astrodog at gmail.com (Astrodog) Date: Fri Oct 30 21:13:19 2009 Subject: Why is sendmail is part of the system and not a package? In-Reply-To: <4AEAECE0.1040704@loveturtle.net> References: <4AE5F897.3000103@rawbw.com> <20091029182739.GA22923@ei.bzerk.org> <20091029145843.Q98757@qroenaqrq.6qbyyneqvnyhc.pbz> <200910301018.25483.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <4AEAECE0.1040704@loveturtle.net> Message-ID: <2fd864e0910301349x3a17326r264b7e4e423f99db@mail.gmail.com> I would just like to point out that no one has considered the possibility of, perhaps, painting the bikeshed with a pattern using multiple colors, or perhaps even varying grades of reflective paint. This would make it significantly more pleasing to the eye... and with shiny paint, we can also attract significantly more users. --- Harrison From cracauer at cons.org Fri Oct 30 21:44:15 2009 From: cracauer at cons.org (Martin Cracauer) Date: Fri Oct 30 21:44:22 2009 Subject: BSD meeting in Cambridge, MA, Wednesday Nov 4, 2009 Message-ID: <20091030211436.GA52767@cons.org> We have a couple of BSD people getting together for some birds of a feather type chitchat. It's a restaurant near Central, Square, Cambridge, MA, Wednesday Nov 4, 7:00 p.m. Please email for the particular place, I need to keep track so that we get a big enough table. Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer/ FreeBSD - where you want to go, today. http://www.freebsd.org/ From brett at lariat.net Fri Oct 30 22:05:33 2009 From: brett at lariat.net (Brett Glass) Date: Fri Oct 30 22:05:40 2009 Subject: Why is sendmail is part of the system and not a package? In-Reply-To: References: <4AE5F897.3000103@rawbw.com> <20091029182739.GA22923@ei.bzerk.org> <20091029145843.Q98757@qroenaqrq.6qbyyneqvnyhc.pbz> <200910301018.25483.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> Message-ID: <200910302205.QAA11432@lariat.net> At 02:50 AM 10/30/2009, Randi Harper wrote: >This bikeshed is old and tired. I don't want to paint it. I want to drown it >in lighter fluid and set it on fire. I've never seen a bike shed. Unless perhaps it had a furry seat cover. --Brett Glass From root.vagner at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 06:44:32 2009 From: root.vagner at gmail.com (Vagner) Date: Sat Oct 31 06:44:39 2009 Subject: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws Message-ID: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> Good day! I wanted to share with you the situation in Russia and hear advice. In Russia introduced a law "On personal data" and the corresponding standarts. In accordance with these standarts process personal data (ie 80% of all data in the enterprise) can only by certified operating systems and software. Certified happening in the Federal Security Service in Russia (FSB in USA). But FreeBSD doesn't certify anyone. That is, in Russia are trying to ban the use os Freebsd and similar. For the use of face criminal liability. What do i do not kwow, but refuse to use FreeBSD, i don't intend to. How do you fight against corruption & bureaucraty in the government itself? Thks -- Respectfully, Stanislav Putrya System administrator "RMK Kovsh" Ltd. IM: 328585847 mob. phone: +79525600664 email: root.vagner@gmail.com email: vagner_rider@bk.ru ---------------------------------------- ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign X - against HTML, vCards and / \ - proprietary attachments in e-mail From igor at hybrid-lab.co.uk Sat Oct 31 10:12:16 2009 From: igor at hybrid-lab.co.uk (Igor Mozolevsky) Date: Sat Oct 31 10:12:23 2009 Subject: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws In-Reply-To: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> References: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> Message-ID: 2009/10/31 Vagner : > In Russia introduced a law "On personal data" and the > corresponding standarts. In accordance with these standarts process > personal data (ie 80% of all data in the enterprise) can only by > certified operating systems and software. > Certified happening in the Federal Security Service in Russia (FSB in USA). > But FreeBSD doesn't certify anyone. Huh? Do you mean Zakon 152-FZ [1]? I could not find anything in that statute that mentions certified operating system (ok, I did just do "search" and not a detailed read), what section/paragraph are you referring to? 1. http://www.rg.ru/printable/2006/07/29/personaljnye-dannye-dok.html Cheers, -- Igor :-) From solarux at hotmail.com Sat Oct 31 13:33:35 2009 From: solarux at hotmail.com (Rick N) Date: Sat Oct 31 13:33:41 2009 Subject: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws In-Reply-To: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> References: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> Message-ID: We're all certifiable with the *BSD's, no pun intended. :) I'm not sure if this helps but there is accepted "certs" for the BSD's. http://www.bsdcertification.org/ -and it's fairly cheap. as far as your "...How do you fight against corruption & bureaucraty in the government itself?..." well, UNFORTUNATELY, every country in the world HAS THAT problem. GL Rick. -------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:19:56 +0300 > From: root.vagner@gmail.com > To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > Subject: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws > > Good day! I wanted to share with you the situation in Russia and hear > advice. In Russia introduced a law "On personal data" and the > corresponding standarts. In accordance with these standarts process > personal data (ie 80% of all data in the enterprise) can only by > certified operating systems and software. > Certified happening in the Federal Security Service in Russia (FSB in USA). But FreeBSD doesn't certify anyone. > That is, in Russia are trying to ban the use os Freebsd and similar. > For the use of face criminal liability. What do i do not kwow, but > refuse to use FreeBSD, i don't intend to. Thks > > -- > Respectfully, > Stanislav Putrya > System administrator > "RMK Kovsh" Ltd. > IM: 328585847 > mob. phone: +79525600664 > email: root.vagner@gmail.com > email: vagner_rider@bk.ru > > ---------------------------------------- > ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign > X - against HTML, vCards and > / \ - proprietary attachments in e-mail > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" _________________________________________________________________ CDN College or University student? Get Windows 7 for only $39.99 before Jan 3! Buy it now! http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691636 From root.vagner at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 14:17:18 2009 From: root.vagner at gmail.com (Vagner) Date: Sat Oct 31 14:17:25 2009 Subject: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws In-Reply-To: References: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> Message-ID: <20091031141651.GA7175@vagner.bsd.loc> On 09:44 Sat 31 Oct , Igor Mozolevsky wrote: > 2009/10/31 Vagner : > > > In Russia introduced a law "On personal data" and the > > corresponding standarts. In accordance with these standarts process > > personal data (ie 80% of all data in the enterprise) can only by > > certified operating systems and software. > > Certified happening in the Federal Security Service in Russia (FSB in USA). > > But FreeBSD doesn't certify anyone. > > Huh? Do you mean Zakon 152-FZ [1]? I could not find anything in that > statute that mentions certified operating system (ok, I did just do > "search" and not a detailed read), what section/paragraph are you > referring to? > > 1. http://www.rg.ru/printable/2006/07/29/personaljnye-dannye-dok.html > > Cheers, > > -- > Igor :-) Yes, i mean this is the law... In addition to the Federal Security Service checks and will deal with the Federal Service for Technical and Export Control (FSTEC). According to the normative legal documents No. ROSS RU.0001.01BI00 (http://www.fstec.ru/_srt/_prbser.htm) and the state registry of certified funds (http://www.fstec.ru/_doc/_reestr_sszi.xls) all used for processing and storage facilities should be certified. The site www.fstec.ru given a full list of legal documents on the subject. It is not sad it sounds - but it turns freebsd in russia will simply be banned:( -- Respectfully, Stanislav Putrya System administrator "RMK Kovsh" Ltd. IM: 328585847 mob. phone: +79525600664 email: root.vagner@gmail.com email: vagner_rider@bk.ru ---------------------------------------- ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign X - against HTML, vCards and / \ - proprietary attachments in e-mail From root.vagner at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 14:32:34 2009 From: root.vagner at gmail.com (Vagner) Date: Sat Oct 31 14:32:40 2009 Subject: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws In-Reply-To: References: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> Message-ID: <20091031143008.GA7267@vagner.bsd.loc> On 09:33 Sat 31 Oct , Rick N wrote: > > We're all certifiable with the *BSD's, no pun intended. :) > I'm not sure if this helps but there is accepted "certs" for the BSD's. > > http://www.bsdcertification.org/ -and it's fairly cheap. > > as far as your "...How do you fight against corruption & bureaucraty in the government itself?..." > > well, UNFORTUNATELY, every country in the world HAS THAT problem. > > > > GL > > > > Rick. > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:19:56 +0300 > > From: root.vagner@gmail.com > > To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > > Subject: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws > > > > Good day! I wanted to share with you the situation in Russia and hear > > advice. In Russia introduced a law "On personal data" and the > > corresponding standarts. In accordance with these standarts process > > personal data (ie 80% of all data in the enterprise) can only by > > certified operating systems and software. > > Certified happening in the Federal Security Service in Russia (FSB in USA). But FreeBSD doesn't certify anyone. > > That is, in Russia are trying to ban the use os Freebsd and similar. > > For the use of face criminal liability. What do i do not kwow, but > > refuse to use FreeBSD, i don't intend to. Thks > > > > -- > > Respectfully, > > Stanislav Putrya > > System administrator > > "RMK Kovsh" Ltd. > > IM: 328585847 > > mob. phone: +79525600664 > > email: root.vagner@gmail.com > > email: vagner_rider@bk.ru > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign > > X - against HTML, vCards and > > / \ - proprietary attachments in e-mail > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > _________________________________________________________________ > CDN College or University student? Get Windows 7 for only $39.99 before Jan 3! Buy it now! > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691636_______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Rick, the main problem lies in the fact that Russia's goverment exactly as the laws are not oriented in this matter on the international certification. It seems that in Russia trying to break as minnimum citizens feedom of choise and competition policy:( -- Respectfully, Stanislav Putrya System administrator "RMK Kovsh" Ltd. IM: 328585847 mob. phone: +79525600664 email: root.vagner@gmail.com email: vagner_rider@bk.ru ---------------------------------------- ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign X - against HTML, vCards and / \ - proprietary attachments in e-mail From solarux at hotmail.com Sat Oct 31 15:17:57 2009 From: solarux at hotmail.com (Rick N) Date: Sat Oct 31 15:18:03 2009 Subject: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws In-Reply-To: <20091031143008.GA7267@vagner.bsd.loc> References: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> Message-ID: > Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:32:25 +0300 > From: root.vagner@gmail.com > To: solarux@hotmail.com > CC: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws > > On 09:33 Sat 31 Oct , Rick N wrote: > > > > We're all certifiable with the *BSD's, no pun intended. :) > > I'm not sure if this helps but there is accepted "certs" for the BSD's. > > > > http://www.bsdcertification.org/ -and it's fairly cheap. > > > > as far as your "...How do you fight against corruption & bureaucraty in the government itself?..." > > > > well, UNFORTUNATELY, every country in the world HAS THAT problem. > > > > > > > > GL > > > > > > > > Rick. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > > Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:19:56 +0300 > > > From: root.vagner@gmail.com > > > To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > > > Subject: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws > > > > > > Good day! I wanted to share with you the situation in Russia and hear > > > advice. In Russia introduced a law "On personal data" and the > > > corresponding standarts. In accordance with these standarts process > > > personal data (ie 80% of all data in the enterprise) can only by > > > certified operating systems and software. > > > Certified happening in the Federal Security Service in Russia (FSB in USA). But FreeBSD doesn't certify anyone. > > > That is, in Russia are trying to ban the use os Freebsd and similar. > > > For the use of face criminal liability. What do i do not kwow, but > > > refuse to use FreeBSD, i don't intend to. Thks > > > > > > -- > > > Respectfully, > > > Stanislav Putrya > > > System administrator > > > "RMK Kovsh" Ltd. > > > IM: 328585847 > > > mob. phone: +79525600664 > > > email: root.vagner@gmail.com > > > email: vagner_rider@bk.ru > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > > ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign > > > X - against HTML, vCards and > > > / \ - proprietary attachments in e-mail > > > _______________________________________________ > > > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > CDN College or University student? Get Windows 7 for only $39.99 before Jan 3! Buy it now! > > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691636_______________________________________________ > > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > Rick, the main problem lies in the fact that Russia's goverment exactly > as the laws are not oriented in this matter on the international > certification. It seems that in Russia trying to break as minnimum > citizens feedom of choise and competition policy:( > > -- > Respectfully, > Stanislav Putrya > System administrator > "RMK Kovsh" Ltd. > IM: 328585847 > mob. phone: +79525600664 > email: root.vagner@gmail.com > email: vagner_rider@bk.ru > > ---------------------------------------- > ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign > X - against HTML, vCards and > / \ - proprietary attachments in e-mail > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Stanislav, Thats not good news for you guys indeed. Correct if I'm wrong, but I guess its sounds like the one most certifiable (aka pay$ the most corrupt money -gets to be the certified-OS of choice in Russia. ? lets me guess - Bill Gates wins right? I hope not. GL Rick. _________________________________________________________________ Ready for a deal-of-a-lifetime? See fantastic offers on Windows 7, in one convenient place. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691634 From root.vagner at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 15:44:45 2009 From: root.vagner at gmail.com (Vagner) Date: Sat Oct 31 15:44:51 2009 Subject: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws In-Reply-To: References: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> Message-ID: <20091031154436.GA8058@vagner.bsd.loc> > Thats not good news for you guys indeed. > Correct if I'm wrong, but I guess its sounds like the one most certifiable (aka pay$ the most corrupt money -gets to be the certified-OS of choice in Russia. ? > lets me guess - Bill Gates wins right? > I hope not. > GL > Rick. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Ready for a deal-of-a-lifetime? See fantastic offers on Windows 7, in one convenient place. > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691634_______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Yes, you understood everything correctly. In Russia it's introduced as another of many ways to take money from organizations. But this is not correct:(( In Russia there are organizations representing the interests of the community - they sell to support itself freebsd. Why they do not work towards the legalization freebsd - don't understand. I want to find a way to freely choose FreeBSD as the primary server for organizations, but if things go further it will be impossible. Time to bring the systems in accordance with the laws - 1.01.2010 -- Respectfully, Stanislav Putrya System administrator "RMK Kovsh" Ltd. IM: 328585847 mob. phone: +79525600664 email: root.vagner@gmail.com email: vagner_rider@bk.ru ---------------------------------------- ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign X - against HTML, vCards and / \ - proprietary attachments in e-mail From igor at hybrid-lab.co.uk Sat Oct 31 16:39:31 2009 From: igor at hybrid-lab.co.uk (Igor Mozolevsky) Date: Sat Oct 31 16:39:37 2009 Subject: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws In-Reply-To: <20091031141651.GA7175@vagner.bsd.loc> References: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> <20091031141651.GA7175@vagner.bsd.loc> Message-ID: 2009/10/31 Vagner : > Yes, i mean this is the law... In addition to the Federal Security Service > checks and will deal with > the Federal Service for Technical and Export Control (FSTEC). According > to the normative legal documents No. ROSS RU.0001.01BI00 > (http://www.fstec.ru/_srt/_prbser.htm) and the state registry of > certified funds (http://www.fstec.ru/_doc/_reestr_sszi.xls) all used for > processing and storage facilities should be certified. The site > www.fstec.ru given a full list of legal documents on the subject. It is > not sad it sounds - but it turns freebsd in russia will simply be > banned:( Let me ask you again - *where specifically* does it actually say that all systems that process data must be certified or compliant with a specific standard? The Zakon is very vague on the exact criteria and that is for a reason... The closest thing I could find to what you are describing was on the FSTEC site in relation to *State* Secrets... Besides, if *all* systems that process personal data had to be certified, you do realise that includes telephones, PBXes, PDAs and so on?.. I think you're over-reacting... Cheers, -- Igor From root.vagner at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 17:56:10 2009 From: root.vagner at gmail.com (Vagner) Date: Sat Oct 31 17:56:17 2009 Subject: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws In-Reply-To: References: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> <20091031141651.GA7175@vagner.bsd.loc> Message-ID: <20091031175557.GA8527@vagner.bsd.loc> On 16:39 Sat 31 Oct , Igor Mozolevsky wrote: > 2009/10/31 Vagner : > > > Yes, i mean this is the law... In addition to the Federal Security Service > > checks and will deal with > > the Federal Service for Technical and Export Control (FSTEC). According > > to the normative legal documents No. ROSS RU.0001.01BI00 > > (http://www.fstec.ru/_srt/_prbser.htm) and the state registry of > > certified funds (http://www.fstec.ru/_doc/_reestr_sszi.xls) all used for > > processing and storage facilities should be certified. The site > > www.fstec.ru given a full list of legal documents on the subject. It is > > not sad it sounds - but it turns freebsd in russia will simply be > > banned:( > > Let me ask you again - *where specifically* does it actually say that > all systems that process data must be certified or compliant with a > specific standard? The Zakon is very vague on the exact criteria and > that is for a reason... The closest thing I could find to what you are > describing was on the FSTEC site in relation to *State* Secrets... > > Besides, if *all* systems that process personal data had to be > certified, you do realise that includes telephones, PBXes, PDAs and so > on?.. I think you're over-reacting... > > > Cheers, > > -- > Igor I'm afraid that is not the exact wording in the law would allow the inspectors to establish their own rules:( Also - if you look at paragraph 1.5 Regulation on certification of information sequrity requirements for information sequrity: "subject to mandatory certification means, including foreing-made, designed to protect information constituting state secrets, and *other information restricted*, as well as tools used in the management of environmentally hazardous facilities." In accordance with advice received from FSTEC - freebsd used for operations with the data containing the name and etc. is forbidden:( I'll be only too glad if my analisis of the situation is not true, but if it's still true, then from january 1, many disputes will be resolved criminal cases( -- Respectfully, Stanislav Putrya System administrator "RMK Kovsh" Ltd. IM: 328585847 mob. phone: +79525600664 email: root.vagner@gmail.com email: vagner_rider@bk.ru ---------------------------------------- ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign X - against HTML, vCards and / \ - proprietary attachments in e-mail