From hywel at hmallett.co.uk Thu Mar 5 06:39:35 2009 From: hywel at hmallett.co.uk (Hywel Mallett) Date: Thu Mar 5 06:39:41 2009 Subject: Announcing FreeBSD Bounties! Message-ID: <20090305143932.2m5hub4n4w0swk0o@www.hmallett.co.uk> A few times in the past some people (notably the guys from rsync.net) have offered bounties to encourage FreeBSD development. These have usually been announced on the mailing lists, and if others want to offer their support, then they can, but maybe it's not as easy to collate all the information as it could be. Some research reveals that there is unlikely to be any official list of bounties, due to the legal status of FreeBSD. As a result, I decided to create a site where people can offer bounties, others can lend their support, and developers can be sign up to claim the bounties. At the moment it's still in the early stages, but hopefully it'll grow and prove to be a valuable resource for the FreeBSD community. Check it out at http://www.freebsdbounties.info All feedback is appreciated. Hywel (This message was sent to freebsd-chat yesterday, but I think it may have been munched by a spam filter. Apologies if it's a dupe.) From hywel at hmallett.co.uk Thu Mar 5 09:35:19 2009 From: hywel at hmallett.co.uk (Hywel Mallett) Date: Thu Mar 5 09:35:27 2009 Subject: FreeBSD Bounties Message-ID: <2E84A46F-C21C-43F3-AF2E-2B8115A0B888@hmallett.co.uk> Over the last year or so I've seen a few references to software bounties for FreeBSD, often with people commenting that there is no way for people to pledge their support (financial or otherwise), other than mailing lists and the like. I decided I would bite the bullet, so I'm announcing http://www.freebsdbounties.info It's very early in the site's lifecycle, but hopefully it will become a valuable resource. From matt at ixsystems.com Thu Mar 5 10:24:19 2009 From: matt at ixsystems.com (Matt Olander) Date: Thu Mar 5 10:24:26 2009 Subject: Announcing FreeBSD Bounties! In-Reply-To: <20090305143932.2m5hub4n4w0swk0o@www.hmallett.co.uk> References: <20090305143932.2m5hub4n4w0swk0o@www.hmallett.co.uk> Message-ID: <6F04DAF2-203D-43AD-8AA2-7FBAA0033222@ixsystems.com> On Mar 5, 2009, at 6:39 AM, Hywel Mallett wrote: > A few times in the past some people (notably the guys from > rsync.net) have offered bounties to encourage FreeBSD development. > These have usually been announced on the mailing lists, and if > others want to offer their support, then they can, but maybe it's > not as easy to collate all the information as it could be. > > Some research reveals that there is unlikely to be any official list > of bounties, due to the legal status of FreeBSD. > > As a result, I decided to create a site where people can offer > bounties, others can lend their support, and developers can be sign > up to claim the bounties. > > At the moment it's still in the early stages, but hopefully it'll > grow and prove to be a valuable resource for the FreeBSD community. > > Check it out at http://www.freebsdbounties.info > > All feedback is appreciated. > > Hywel Hello Hywel! Awesome! The interesting thing is that I was just typing an email last night to ask for contributions and volunteers on a similar idea and site but I fell asleep! Perhaps we're destined to combine forces ;-) We've got a site in development called www.SponsorBSD.org where sponsors can post a project, and other people can contribute financially towards the bounty. Multiple developers can then sign up for that project and contribute code that is viewable by all via web cvs or that remains private in case of closed bounties. A founding sponsor, team leader, or admin can then divvy the bounty up to the contributors based on effort or selected solution. All it needs is perhaps a little design love, some minimal PHP programming, and a bit of testing. Mail isn't setup yet but it will still allow registrations. We'll get the mail setup this weekend. I've cc'd Melanie, from the PC-BSD Project, as she's volunteered to help get the word out and coordinate volunteers. If you're interested in contributing, please send Melanie an email. Hywel, I'll contact you off list about potentially teaming up! best, -matt From jamesthefishy at gmail.com Thu Mar 5 12:23:29 2009 From: jamesthefishy at gmail.com (james michael) Date: Thu Mar 5 12:23:48 2009 Subject: FreeBSD Bounties In-Reply-To: <2E84A46F-C21C-43F3-AF2E-2B8115A0B888@hmallett.co.uk> References: <2E84A46F-C21C-43F3-AF2E-2B8115A0B888@hmallett.co.uk> Message-ID: <49B02F3E.9040002@gmail.com> I find this completely useless as a site. No one is going to get "flash 9 on freebsd with opera" for 200 dollars. I know people will want to add bounties to it and it will be like 250 then like 300 and as time passes it will be a million dollars or such but I don't think the problem is that people aren't willing to do the work, its that places like adobe has closed its software so that we can't really create anything. Hywel Mallett wrote: > Over the last year or so I've seen a few references to software > bounties for FreeBSD, often with people commenting that there is no > way for people to pledge their support (financial or otherwise), other > than mailing lists and the like. > I decided I would bite the bullet, so I'm announcing > http://www.freebsdbounties.info > It's very early in the site's lifecycle, but hopefully it will become > a valuable resource. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From hywel at hmallett.co.uk Thu Mar 5 12:46:27 2009 From: hywel at hmallett.co.uk (Hywel Mallett) Date: Thu Mar 5 12:46:34 2009 Subject: FreeBSD Bounties In-Reply-To: <49B02F3E.9040002@gmail.com> References: <2E84A46F-C21C-43F3-AF2E-2B8115A0B888@hmallett.co.uk> <49B02F3E.9040002@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5 Mar 2009, at 19:59, james michael wrote: > I find this completely useless as a site. No one is going to get > "flash 9 on freebsd with opera" for 200 dollars. I know people will > want to add bounties to it and it will be like 250 then like 300 and > as time passes it will be a million dollars or such but I don't > think the problem is that people aren't willing to do the work, its > that places like adobe has closed its software so that we can't > really create anything. The scope of a bounty could be far wider than to get proprietary software to work with FreeBSD. It just happens that the two bounties so far are for compatibility with proprietary softwares. For example, UFS quotas hadn't been updated to take account of large filesystems, so a bounty was offered, the fixes were made, and the bounty was claimed. The changes have gone back into the FreeBSD source (I think - they were certainly due to), so the FreeBSD project has benefited, and the bounty offerer and bounty hunter have benefited too. Of course if there's not enough incentive for some things, or they are too hard or simply unfeasible, they won't happen. But bear in mind that bounties do get offered, and they do get fulfilled. Hywel From matt at ixsystems.com Thu Mar 5 12:51:45 2009 From: matt at ixsystems.com (Matt Olander) Date: Thu Mar 5 12:51:52 2009 Subject: Announcing FreeBSD Bounties! In-Reply-To: <30413.83143.qm@web51806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <30413.83143.qm@web51806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mar 5, 2009, at 12:19 PM, Nicole wrote: > > --- On Thu, 3/5/09, Matt Olander wrote: >> From: Matt Olander >> Subject: Re: Announcing FreeBSD Bounties! >> To: "Hywel Mallett" >> Cc: "FreeBSD Chat" , melanie@pcbsd.org >> Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 10:10 AM >> On Mar 5, 2009, at 6:39 AM, Hywel Mallett wrote: >> >>> A few times in the past some people (notably the guys >> from rsync.net) have offered bounties to encourage FreeBSD >> development. These have usually been announced on the >> mailing lists, and if others want to offer their support, >> then they can, but maybe it's not as easy to collate all >> the information as it could be. >>> >>> Some research reveals that there is unlikely to be any >> official list of bounties, due to the legal status of >> FreeBSD. >>> >>> As a result, I decided to create a site where people >> can offer bounties, others can lend their support, and >> developers can be sign up to claim the bounties. >>> >>> At the moment it's still in the early stages, but >> hopefully it'll grow and prove to be a valuable resource >> for the FreeBSD community. >>> >>> Check it out at http://www.freebsdbounties.info >>> >>> All feedback is appreciated. >>> >>> Hywel >> >> Hello Hywel! >> >> Awesome! The interesting thing is that I was just typing an >> email last night to ask for contributions and volunteers on >> a similar idea and site but I fell asleep! Perhaps we're >> destined to combine forces ;-) >> >> We've got a site in development called >> www.SponsorBSD.org where sponsors can post a project, and >> other people can contribute financially towards the bounty. >> Multiple developers can then sign up for that project and >> contribute code that is viewable by all via web cvs or that >> remains private in case of closed bounties. A founding >> sponsor, team leader, or admin can then divvy the bounty up >> to the contributors based on effort or selected solution. >> >> All it needs is perhaps a little design love, some minimal >> PHP programming, and a bit of testing. >> >> Mail isn't setup yet but it will still allow >> registrations. We'll get the mail setup this weekend. >> I've cc'd Melanie, from the PC-BSD Project, as >> she's volunteered to help get the word out and >> coordinate volunteers. If you're interested in >> contributing, please send Melanie an email. >> >> Hywel, I'll contact you off list about potentially >> teaming up! >> >> best, >> -matt >> > > Hello Matt > > A suggestion I would like to toss out to possible add to the site, > is to expand and make easier to find, the pages that lists > developers and their wish-list needs, plus allow for people to list > things other than money they may want to offer to FreeBSD > supporters. (Like a volunteer sign up page with what skills or > items they feel comfortable offering) > > Also, as has been shown throughout history, causes, projects, and > companies have greatly been able to attract more attention and money > when there is a central identifying person associated with it. > While I appreciate the need for and the work of the FreeBSD > foundation, I hope that at some time, some one can step in, step up > or frankly be drafted to be that person for FreeBSD (much as Jordon > Hubbard was some years ago) I hope that these projects can also > help with this faceless entity problem that FreeBSD has. > > For the part that it does not, I certainly nominate you, and ask > you, to perhaps help with this and through your efforts, perhaps > become more of a face of FreeBSD! I think at least some small > amount of Cult Of Personality would really help pull FreeBSD more > into the public, or at least techie, consciousness. Thanks Nicole! I've talked the iXsystems management team (of which I am a part) into acting as the escrow manager for any significant funds generated from the SponsorBSD site. I definitely agree that FreeBSD needs more marketing love and we have dedicated people on staff now to work towards that end. We are now up to over 12 large trade shows in the United States (plus BSDCan) a year with the "official" FreeBSD booth with backdrop, CDs, t- shirts, and promotional materials. The latest version of PC-BSD has over 770k downloads, many of which are brand new users to any type of BSD. We're formally launching the SpreadBSD.org site, where we'll keep the community abreast of our marketing plans and provide a repository of materials to present to new users, management, and enthusiasts. As always, volunteers welcome! Be well! -matt From matt at ixsystems.com Thu Mar 5 12:52:26 2009 From: matt at ixsystems.com (Matt Olander) Date: Thu Mar 5 12:52:33 2009 Subject: FreeBSD Bounties In-Reply-To: <49B02F3E.9040002@gmail.com> References: <2E84A46F-C21C-43F3-AF2E-2B8115A0B888@hmallett.co.uk> <49B02F3E.9040002@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mar 5, 2009, at 11:59 AM, james michael wrote: > I find this completely useless as a site. No one is going to get > "flash 9 on freebsd with opera" for 200 dollars. I know people will > want to add bounties to it and it will be like 250 then like 300 and > as time passes it will be a million dollars or such but I don't > think the problem is that people aren't willing to do the work, its > that places like adobe has closed its software so that we can't > really create anything. Actually, Flash9 on FreeBSD 7.x is working pretty good now with Linux emulation. In fact, the sound syncs up better on my default PC-BSD alpha box than on my mac! I'm watching entire episodes of Fringe on Hulu.com with no problems. Get it up to a million dollars and we'll just pay Adobe for the port ;-) I think the point for sites like this is having somewhere more formal to track projects, sponsors, and developers as it relates to monetary bounties. -matt From victorloureirolima at gmail.com Thu Mar 5 12:57:05 2009 From: victorloureirolima at gmail.com (Victor Loureiro Lima) Date: Thu Mar 5 12:57:12 2009 Subject: FreeBSD Bounties In-Reply-To: <49B02F3E.9040002@gmail.com> References: <2E84A46F-C21C-43F3-AF2E-2B8115A0B888@hmallett.co.uk> <49B02F3E.9040002@gmail.com> Message-ID: Well, for something like Adobe Flash Player maybe this could be true, but what if I want to be able to use my old and unsupported Network Card on FreeBSD, maybe there are people willing to pay something for that... I mean, just because something isnt working as expected in all directions that doesnt mean it is completelly useless. cheers, Victor Lima 2009/3/5 james michael > I find this completely useless as a site. No one is going to get "flash 9 > on freebsd with opera" for 200 dollars. I know people will want to add > bounties to it and it will be like 250 then like 300 and as time passes it > will be a million dollars or such but I don't think the problem is that > people aren't willing to do the work, its that places like adobe has closed > its software so that we can't really create anything. > > Hywel Mallett wrote: > >> Over the last year or so I've seen a few references to software bounties >> for FreeBSD, often with people commenting that there is no way for people to >> pledge their support (financial or otherwise), other than mailing lists and >> the like. >> I decided I would bite the bullet, so I'm announcing >> http://www.freebsdbounties.info >> It's very early in the site's lifecycle, but hopefully it will become a >> valuable resource. >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From jamesthefishy at gmail.com Thu Mar 5 13:05:47 2009 From: jamesthefishy at gmail.com (james michael) Date: Thu Mar 5 13:05:53 2009 Subject: FreeBSD Bounties In-Reply-To: References: <2E84A46F-C21C-43F3-AF2E-2B8115A0B888@hmallett.co.uk> <49B02F3E.9040002@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49B03EC0.6070106@gmail.com> Hmm, well I guess I might have jumped the gun a bit. I can see how it could be useful. I don't really believe that open source software should have a price when it comes to drivers and things like that. There are a lot of sites like this one in the aspect of paying programmers to write software, none of them directed at any one OS. I don't see the point in directing this site to freebsd. All the freebsd drivers should be open source and Libra. Victor Loureiro Lima wrote: > Well, for something like Adobe Flash Player maybe this could be true, > but what if I want to be able to use my old and unsupported Network > Card on FreeBSD, maybe there are people willing to pay something for > that... I mean, just because something isnt working as expected in all > directions that doesnt mean it is completelly useless. > > cheers, > Victor Lima > > 2009/3/5 james michael > > > I find this completely useless as a site. No one is going to get > "flash 9 on freebsd with opera" for 200 dollars. I know people > will want to add bounties to it and it will be like 250 then like > 300 and as time passes it will be a million dollars or such but I > don't think the problem is that people aren't willing to do the > work, its that places like adobe has closed its software so that > we can't really create anything. > > Hywel Mallett wrote: > > Over the last year or so I've seen a few references to > software bounties for FreeBSD, often with people commenting > that there is no way for people to pledge their support > (financial or otherwise), other than mailing lists and the like. > I decided I would bite the bullet, so I'm announcing > http://www.freebsdbounties.info > It's very early in the site's lifecycle, but hopefully it will > become a valuable resource. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org > " > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing > list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org > " > > From rohit.x.tripathi at jpmchase.com Thu Mar 5 13:49:45 2009 From: rohit.x.tripathi at jpmchase.com (Rohit X Tripathi) Date: Thu Mar 5 13:49:52 2009 Subject: FreeBSD Bounties In-Reply-To: <49B03EC0.6070106@gmail.com> References: <2E84A46F-C21C-43F3-AF2E-2B8115A0B888@hmallett.co.uk> <49B02F3E.9040002@gmail.com> <49B03EC0.6070106@gmail.com> Message-ID: Looks like NY State is offering a (potential) bounty: http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A06380&sh=t -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of james michael Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 4:06 PM To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Bounties Hmm, well I guess I might have jumped the gun a bit. I can see how it could be useful. I don't really believe that open source software should have a price when it comes to drivers and things like that. There are a lot of sites like this one in the aspect of paying programmers to write software, none of them directed at any one OS. I don't see the point in directing this site to freebsd. All the freebsd drivers should be open source and Libra. From dan at langille.org Thu Mar 5 13:58:22 2009 From: dan at langille.org (Dan Langille) Date: Thu Mar 5 13:58:28 2009 Subject: FreeBSD Bounties In-Reply-To: <49B03EC0.6070106@gmail.com> References: <2E84A46F-C21C-43F3-AF2E-2B8115A0B888@hmallett.co.uk> <49B02F3E.9040002@gmail.com> <49B03EC0.6070106@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49B04737.2080304@langille.org> Please, do not top post. Thank you. james michael wrote: > Hmm, well I guess I might have jumped the gun a bit. I can see how it > could be useful. I don't really believe that open source software should > have a price when it comes to drivers and things like that. The software does not have a 'price'. The work does. If someone is paid to work on the software, and it is open source, why do you care? Many people are paid to work on open source software. Perhaps more than you are aware of. > There are a > lot of sites like this one in the aspect of paying programmers to write > software, none of them directed at any one OS. I don't see the point in > directing this site to freebsd. All the freebsd drivers should be open > source and Libra. It is directed at FreeBSD because the site owners wanted it so. They saw a need and are attempting to fill it. Quite simple. -- Dan Langille BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference : http://www.bsdcan.org/ PGCon - The PostgreSQL Conference: http://www.pgcon.org/ From blabgoo at yahoo.com Thu Mar 5 12:46:36 2009 From: blabgoo at yahoo.com (Nicole) Date: Thu Mar 5 14:19:47 2009 Subject: Announcing FreeBSD Bounties! In-Reply-To: <6F04DAF2-203D-43AD-8AA2-7FBAA0033222@ixsystems.com> Message-ID: <30413.83143.qm@web51806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- On Thu, 3/5/09, Matt Olander wrote: > From: Matt Olander > Subject: Re: Announcing FreeBSD Bounties! > To: "Hywel Mallett" > Cc: "FreeBSD Chat" , melanie@pcbsd.org > Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 10:10 AM > On Mar 5, 2009, at 6:39 AM, Hywel Mallett wrote: > > > A few times in the past some people (notably the guys > from rsync.net) have offered bounties to encourage FreeBSD > development. These have usually been announced on the > mailing lists, and if others want to offer their support, > then they can, but maybe it's not as easy to collate all > the information as it could be. > > > > Some research reveals that there is unlikely to be any > official list of bounties, due to the legal status of > FreeBSD. > > > > As a result, I decided to create a site where people > can offer bounties, others can lend their support, and > developers can be sign up to claim the bounties. > > > > At the moment it's still in the early stages, but > hopefully it'll grow and prove to be a valuable resource > for the FreeBSD community. > > > > Check it out at http://www.freebsdbounties.info > > > > All feedback is appreciated. > > > > Hywel > > Hello Hywel! > > Awesome! The interesting thing is that I was just typing an > email last night to ask for contributions and volunteers on > a similar idea and site but I fell asleep! Perhaps we're > destined to combine forces ;-) > > We've got a site in development called > www.SponsorBSD.org where sponsors can post a project, and > other people can contribute financially towards the bounty. > Multiple developers can then sign up for that project and > contribute code that is viewable by all via web cvs or that > remains private in case of closed bounties. A founding > sponsor, team leader, or admin can then divvy the bounty up > to the contributors based on effort or selected solution. > > All it needs is perhaps a little design love, some minimal > PHP programming, and a bit of testing. > > Mail isn't setup yet but it will still allow > registrations. We'll get the mail setup this weekend. > I've cc'd Melanie, from the PC-BSD Project, as > she's volunteered to help get the word out and > coordinate volunteers. If you're interested in > contributing, please send Melanie an email. > > Hywel, I'll contact you off list about potentially > teaming up! > > best, > -matt > Hello Matt A suggestion I would like to toss out to possible add to the site, is to expand and make easier to find, the pages that lists developers and their wish-list needs, plus allow for people to list things other than money they may want to offer to FreeBSD supporters. (Like a volunteer sign up page with what skills or items they feel comfortable offering) Also, as has been shown throughout history, causes, projects, and companies have greatly been able to attract more attention and money when there is a central identifying person associated with it. While I appreciate the need for and the work of the FreeBSD foundation, I hope that at some time, some one can step in, step up or frankly be drafted to be that person for FreeBSD (much as Jordon Hubbard was some years ago) I hope that these projects can also help with this faceless entity problem that FreeBSD has. For the part that it does not, I certainly nominate you, and ask you, to perhaps help with this and through your efforts, perhaps become more of a face of FreeBSD! I think at least some small amount of Cult Of Personality would really help pull FreeBSD more into the public, or at least techie, consciousness. Be well. Nicole From olli at lurza.secnetix.de Fri Mar 6 05:46:15 2009 From: olli at lurza.secnetix.de (Oliver Fromme) Date: Fri Mar 6 05:46:23 2009 Subject: FreeBSD Bounties In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200903061346.n26Dk9K5057916@lurza.secnetix.de> Matt Olander wrote: > james michael wrote: > > I find this completely useless as a site. No one is going to get > > "flash 9 on freebsd with opera" for 200 dollars. I know people will > > want to add bounties to it and it will be like 250 then like 300 and > > as time passes it will be a million dollars or such but I don't > > think the problem is that people aren't willing to do the work, its > > that places like adobe has closed its software so that we can't > > really create anything. > > Actually, Flash9 on FreeBSD 7.x is working pretty good now with Linux > emulation. Unfortunately only with Firefox, and it's far from perfect. I tried to get Flash9 working the past few days with the latest RELENG_7 and the latest ports. This is on a UP i386 machine, so nothing special. - Native Opera: No go. It segfaults. - Linux Opera: Works somewhat, but hangs often, leaves lots of dead processes behind. Generally unusable. - Native Firefox3: Works most of the time. Problems with youtube (hangs quite often). Most other sites seem to work better. - Linux Firefox: Didn't try because the port is marked "forbidden" due to security issues. I definitely prefer Opera for normal browsing because it's faster and has more useful features, so I use it most of the time. I only start up Firefox when I need to visit a site that requires Flash, which doesn't happen too often, fortunately. Certainly, I wouldn't mind if someone improved the existing nspluginwrapper to work better with native Opera, or write a new software from scratch that enables using Flash with native Opera. I might even add to the Bounty, although I can't really afford more than a two-digit figure. But then again, if a sufficiently large number of people added a small amount to the bounty, it might become attractive enough for a developer to look at it. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch?ftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M?n- chen, HRB 125758, Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd Perl is worse than Python because people wanted it worse. -- Larry Wall From kdk at daleco.biz Fri Mar 6 07:43:33 2009 From: kdk at daleco.biz (Kevin Kinsey) Date: Fri Mar 6 07:43:40 2009 Subject: FreeBSD Bounties In-Reply-To: <200903061346.n26Dk9K5057916@lurza.secnetix.de> References: <200903061346.n26Dk9K5057916@lurza.secnetix.de> Message-ID: <49B14148.40408@daleco.biz> Oliver Fromme wrote: > But then > again, if a sufficiently large number of people added a > small amount to the bounty, it might become attractive > enough for a developer to look at it. > > Best regards > Oliver And there's the winning point; since OS SW is community-based, it'd be *uber* nice to have the ability to "Add to this bounty" with a few clicks on this site. This would allow the community to "vote", as 'twere, with cash. Before you knew it, you might indeed have enough to make it worth someone's time to code $some_chore. My $5.00, Kevin Kinsey -- It is much harder to find a job than to keep one. From emailrob at emailrob.com Fri Mar 6 16:44:46 2009 From: emailrob at emailrob.com (spellberg_robert) Date: Fri Mar 6 16:44:53 2009 Subject: FreeBSD Bounties References: <200903061346.n26Dk9K5057916@lurza.secnetix.de> Message-ID: <49B1B9C9.5050501@emailrob.com> mr. fromme almost gets to the point that i am about to make. every so often, some one posts a complaint about another entity's browser. it can't do this, it can't do that, "blah, blah, woof, woof" [ the quote is from jimi hendrix; monterey, 1967, iirc ]. question: if the "browser_products" of other entities are --so-- problematic, just --how-- difficult would it be to "roll our own" ? note that this question is --not-- the same as asking how long it would take to code all of the whiz_bangs that the marketing_department_dweebs want to advertise. it doesn't have to do everything, but, what it does do must be done well; reliably, predictably. i would want it to do things "the bsd way", e. g., search by reg_ex. it would be totally divorced from anything "gnu". i don't care about animation [ images hog bandwidth, big_time ]. here is a concept about which i have fantasized for quite some time. i have been writing a book_keeping app that is designed to do certain things that i have not found to exist in any of the pre_fab, out_of_the_box, point_and_click thingies, which are available for purchase [ "ask about our multi_user_license program" ] at the big_box store. for quite some time, off_and_on, admittedly, i have been researching how to write a "browser". it is my understanding that, once i can recursively render tables, the rest is comparitively easy. i have not, just yet, figured_out how to do the secure_http thing [ this is where i am stalled ]. i want a program that, either, is or, to the outside_world, appears to be a "browser"_like thingy and which is --programmable--, so that it may, in co_ordination with my book_keeping app, log in to any account, >----> to which i am already authorized access, <----< such as my bank or my electric_utility, in the middle_of_the_night, while i am asleep, to down_load transaction_events or other postings, to up_load bill_payment schedulings or other instructions, so that i don't have to use my waking moments to do these routine, but, necessary, time_consuming chores. this is an example of the bsd approach, "routine tasks should be scripted". further, i want this "browser" to be a "logging" "browser", making a disk_copy of --every-- page that comes in, text, image, --everything--, so that i do not have to remember to "save" a copy of the page, even from so_called "secure" sites [ i have confidence in my ability to secure sensitive information and to manage log_files ]. to get to the topic of "bounties", it is with deep regret that i inform all readers that, "for the duration" of the global_economic_depression, presently being engineered by the american donkey political_party, with the able assistance of their front_man, the "magic_messiah" [ for whose failure, i pray several times per day ], i will be unable to supply any funds to the "bounty" program [ surely, there is a better word, isn't there ? ]. however, especially after the book_keeping app is working, i anticipate having more time available. as my bsd skills continually improve, my confidence in, one day, being able to make a credible contribution to the freebsd project improves commensurately. [ an aside to mr. stokely. regarding a dialogue in which you took part about a month ago, i am pleased to learn that your need is for author people, not mark_up people. i frequently find myself making copies of files, e. g., "man" pages or "info" docs, then, amending them to add examples or explanations, fix spelling, grammar and punctuation [ the comma is great for setting_off subordinate clauses ] errors, rewrite tortured phrasing and, sometimes, correct content errors. "fixing things" may be where i may be of initial service. as an example [ this one is current ], have any of you ever tried to teach yourself m4(1), with only the "man" page available ? i wanted a general_purpose macro_instruction processor. on faith, i assumed that "m4" wouldn't be included, if it wasn't useful. further, i assumed that it was a "current" tool, because, if "m4" was a "legacy" tool, another tool, "for new designs", would exist. i had never before been able to make "m4" work "right", but, this time, considering the above reasoning, i decided to stick with it for more than a few hours [ now, i know why: i am line_oriented ]. having some initial success, i kept at it, grumbling frequently [ if it hadn't been for the "-dV" option, i would, probably, have given_up --very-- early on; the quoting approach is --not-- intuitively obvious ]. i went three full weeks before i discovered that the "info" doc is in "/usr/local", not "/usr/share", where i had found the "cc" and "as" "info" docs. "make" was with it [ surprise ! ]. shouldn't those all be in one place ? to make things worse, the "man" page and the "info" doc assume --opposite-- defaults. further, the "info" doc describes feat^H^H^H^Hcharacteristics which, in fact, do not exist [ perhaps, stallman recruited that author from a redmond marketing firm ]. after several more weeks of hacking, i have, for the most part, figured_out what does work and what does not work. i have even developed techniques to insert nearly arbitrary white_space into my macroes, rendering them amazingly readable. this past monday, i installed sendmail [ the latest one; 8_14_3, i think ], so that i can see examples of actual use. i haven't needed to translate between looping and tail_recursion since my fortran days. i realize that this is a "gnu" product, so, i put the blame there. however, it illustrates my point. but, i digress. ] sorry to go on at such length. perhaps, if i were to post more frequently, my posts would be shorter. when i started this, i thought i would type only about one paragraph, asking the "roll our own" question. for ready reference, i enclose the relevant portions of mr. fromme's post. rob spellberg Oliver Fromme wrote: > Matt Olander wrote: > > james michael wrote: [ snip ] > > > ... but I don't > > > think the problem is that people aren't willing to do the work, its > > > that places like adobe has closed its software so that we can't > > > really create anything. > > > > Actually, Flash9 on FreeBSD 7.x is working pretty good now with Linux > > emulation. > > Unfortunately only with Firefox, and it's far from perfect. > > I tried to get Flash9 working the past few days with the > latest RELENG_7 and the latest ports. This is on a UP > i386 machine, so nothing special. > > - Native Opera: No go. It segfaults. > > - Linux Opera: Works somewhat, but hangs often, leaves > lots of dead processes behind. Generally unusable. > > - Native Firefox3: Works most of the time. Problems > with youtube (hangs quite often). Most other sites > seem to work better. > > - Linux Firefox: Didn't try because the port is marked > "forbidden" due to security issues. > > I definitely prefer Opera for normal browsing because it's > faster and has more useful features, so I use it most of > the time. I only start up Firefox when I need to visit > a site that requires Flash, which doesn't happen too > often, fortunately. > > Certainly, I wouldn't mind if someone improved the existing > nspluginwrapper to work better with native Opera, or write > a new software from scratch that enables using Flash with > native Opera. [ snip ] > Best regards > Oliver From dan at langille.org Fri Mar 6 16:57:15 2009 From: dan at langille.org (Dan Langille) Date: Fri Mar 6 16:57:21 2009 Subject: FreeBSD Bounties In-Reply-To: <200903061346.n26Dk9K5057916@lurza.secnetix.de> References: <200903061346.n26Dk9K5057916@lurza.secnetix.de> Message-ID: <49B1C65A.5030705@langille.org> Oliver Fromme wrote: > > I definitely prefer Opera for normal browsing because it's > faster and has more useful features, so I use it most of > the time. I only start up Firefox when I need to visit > a site that requires Flash, which doesn't happen too > often, fortunately. I also use Opera. It is my browser of choice on more than one platform. I'd like Flash to just work. -- Dan Langille BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference : http://www.bsdcan.org/ PGCon - The PostgreSQL Conference: http://www.pgcon.org/ From matt at ixsystems.com Fri Mar 6 18:20:19 2009 From: matt at ixsystems.com (Matt Olander) Date: Fri Mar 6 18:20:25 2009 Subject: Flash on FreeBSD (was Re: FreeBSD Bounties) In-Reply-To: <49B1C65A.5030705@langille.org> References: <200903061346.n26Dk9K5057916@lurza.secnetix.de> <49B1C65A.5030705@langille.org> Message-ID: <7465E81B-D963-4EDB-B112-BBB2C889DF72@ixsystems.com> On Mar 6, 2009, at 4:56 PM, Dan Langille wrote: > Oliver Fromme wrote: >> I definitely prefer Opera for normal browsing because it's >> faster and has more useful features, so I use it most of >> the time. I only start up Firefox when I need to visit >> a site that requires Flash, which doesn't happen too >> often, fortunately. > > I also use Opera. It is my browser of choice on more than one > platform. > > I'd like Flash to just work. I've cc'd Kris from the PC-BSD project as I'm not sure he's subscribed to the list. I'm also a big fan of Opera and it's working well with Flash on the last PC-BSD alpha with no work on my part. Kris, did you have to add any secret sauce to get Flash working so well with Firefox, Konqueror, and Opera in the last alpha? FYI, we're working closely with Adobe to get native Flash on FreeBSD. I expect we'll have a solution at some point this year. -matt From randi at freebsd.org Fri Mar 6 20:33:24 2009 From: randi at freebsd.org (Randi Harper) Date: Fri Mar 6 20:33:30 2009 Subject: FreeBSD Bounties In-Reply-To: <49B03EC0.6070106@gmail.com> References: <2E84A46F-C21C-43F3-AF2E-2B8115A0B888@hmallett.co.uk> <49B02F3E.9040002@gmail.com> <49B03EC0.6070106@gmail.com> Message-ID: > Hmm, well I guess I might have jumped the gun a bit. I can see how it could > be useful. I don't really believe that open source software should have a > price when it comes to drivers and things like that. > It's not like anyone is asking you for money, so I don't see why you are complaining. Bounties are a solution that will benefit everyone involved. In a perfect world, we could all live off of sunshine and rainbows. Since this is hardly the case and developers do have to eat, providing users with a way to subsidize the specific improvements they care about is a Good Thing. Do you have a better idea? (This isn't really all that relevant to the current conversation, but I'd just like to point out the inaccuracy of your assumption that open source software is synonymous with free (as in free beer) software. It's not. Open source means that anyone is free to study/change the software - it does not necessarily mean that the software comes without a price. As much as I dislike referencing rms, you might benefit from reading http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html) -- randi From randi at freebsd.org Fri Mar 6 20:35:10 2009 From: randi at freebsd.org (Randi Harper) Date: Fri Mar 6 20:35:17 2009 Subject: Flash on FreeBSD (was Re: FreeBSD Bounties) In-Reply-To: <7465E81B-D963-4EDB-B112-BBB2C889DF72@ixsystems.com> References: <200903061346.n26Dk9K5057916@lurza.secnetix.de> <49B1C65A.5030705@langille.org> <7465E81B-D963-4EDB-B112-BBB2C889DF72@ixsystems.com> Message-ID: > FYI, we're working closely with Adobe to get native Flash on FreeBSD. I > expect we'll have a solution at some point this year. Y'know, when you're talking to them, could you mention Adobe AIR would be lovely to have working in FreeBSD, too? ;) -- randi From bettina at apoteelia.net Sat Mar 7 10:37:48 2009 From: bettina at apoteelia.net (Bettina Schmidtberger) Date: Sat Mar 7 10:38:05 2009 Subject: Der versprochene Geheimtipp Message-ID: Hi Du! Wie ich es Dir versprochen habe, wollte ich Dir ja noch die Adresse sagen wo wir die Dinger bestellt haben. Gibt ja viele Seiten wo man echt nur ?bers Ohr gehauen wird. Aber bei der Adresse bekommen wir immer nur Originalware und das innheralb k?rzester Zeit zugeschickt. Mit dem Zoll hatten wir da auch nie Probleme, da der Versand direkt aus Europa erfolgt. Klasse oder? Also hier nun die Adresse: http://www.apoteelia.net Viel Spass w?nsch ich Dir und das es gut funktioniert! Gru?, Deine Bettina . . - . . . . . . . . . . : . Gib Acht! Man hatte dir eingeredet, du h?ttest es schwer, dein Leben sei verpfuscht, das Leben sei eine Schuld, sei schlecht, ohne Sinn, ohne Wert; man wollte dich ducken, dich in die gro?e Armee der Leidenden schmuggeln, du solltest bemitleidenswert werden und bemitleiden: und du glaubtest ihnen ? wie ungern! ? und wieder nicht ? wie gern! Denn du bist stark, aber warst krank ? wo? wie? was wei? ich. Und deine Sehnsucht war, herauszukommen aus allen diesen m?den Verneinungen, diesen t?richten Formeln, die im Nein ihr Ja haben, diesen t?nenden Wissenschaften, diesen Worten ?. Deswegen sprangst du von Buch zu Buch, spieltest mit ihren Formeln und lie?est sie wieder fallen, die Neins und Wenns, um selber eine zu finden, aber ein Ja! sollte sie klingen ? denn du wolltest leben! Aber nicht wie der P?bel lebt ? einen Grund, ein Ziel, eine Lebensformel suchtest du. Nun, hier ist sie: Wei?t du: das Himmelsweinglas, das du ausschl?rfen wolltest ? ? nun niete dir die Formel: Die Welt schaffst du. Du vergeistigst das Chaos zur Welt; das Andere, das Noch-nicht-Du, das alte Ding an sich, ist nur das, was von dir noch nicht geschaffen, vermenschlicht, noch nicht dein Eigentum geworden ist. ? Du schaffst die Welt: nun lebe, lebe! ? Die kleine blaue Blume l?utete so froh und stark ? warum soll ich ihr nicht glauben? Und dann bin ich baden gegangen ? ? ? und habe stundenlang im Grase gelegen; und w?hrend die wei?en Wolken durch den Himmel segelten und der Flu? geruhig durch Schilfduft und Ried und schwatzendes Vogelvolk hinstr?mte, habe ich das Ding an sich, den Intellekt und den Willen verlacht und mir ein Ich-wei?-nicht-was? gew?nscht. Gegen Abend entstiegen Schw?rme von Eintagsfliegen dem Flu?, an den Gr?sern, Halmen und Pfosten kletterten sie hoch und warfen aus der H?lle sich in die Luft zum kurzen Hochzeitsleben. Die Luft war wei? ?ber den Wassern von den auf und nieder tanzenden Massen ? und die sinkende Sonne in dem H?henrauch, den der Nordwind gebracht hatte, rot wie ein Rubin: das h?tte mich fast bezwungen, da? ich schon begann, die stundenkurze Existenz der Imago zu beklagen und daran sentimentale Folgerungen zu kn?pfen ? aber da h?rte ich den Enzian l?uten und ich lachte: Das Tier freut sich jahrelang seines R?uberlebens, und dieser Liebesflug ist sein taumelnder H?hepunkt. Es lebe das Leben und seine ewige Br?cke: Venus genetrix! Vor acht Tagen h?tte ich ihr geflucht und geklagt: Was ist das Leben? So ist das Leben: es flie?t dahin wie Wellenschaum, kommt u From olli at lurza.secnetix.de Sun Mar 8 06:30:48 2009 From: olli at lurza.secnetix.de (Oliver Fromme) Date: Sun Mar 8 06:30:55 2009 Subject: Flash on FreeBSD (was Re: FreeBSD Bounties) In-Reply-To: <7465E81B-D963-4EDB-B112-BBB2C889DF72@ixsystems.com> Message-ID: <200903081330.n28DUYtr064489@lurza.secnetix.de> Matt Olander wrote: > Dan Langille wrote: > > Oliver Fromme wrote: > > > I definitely prefer Opera for normal browsing because it's > > > faster and has more useful features, so I use it most of > > > the time. I only start up Firefox when I need to visit > > > a site that requires Flash, which doesn't happen too > > > often, fortunately. > > > > I also use Opera. It is my browser of choice on more than one > > platform. > > > > I'd like Flash to just work. > > I've cc'd Kris from the PC-BSD project as I'm not sure he's subscribed > to the list. I'm also a big fan of Opera and it's working well with > Flash on the last PC-BSD alpha with no work on my part. Are you sure? When I first started testing it, it _seemed_ to work well, too, but after some time it started hanging and accumulating dead "operapliginwrapper" processes. In particular, I'm using the sites http://www.youtupe.de and http://www.spiegel.de/video/ (sorry, mostly German). The first video on both of those sites usually plays fine, but when you continue browsing videos, it'll start hanging on the third or forth video, and then it gets unusable. > Kris, did you > have to add any secret sauce to get Flash working so well with > Firefox, Konqueror, and Opera in the last alpha? I'd be very much interested in the answer to that question, too. > FYI, we're working closely with Adobe to get native Flash on FreeBSD. > I expect we'll have a solution at some point this year. That's very good news! However, I think the problems I'm seeing are not caused by the Flash plugin itself, but by the glue code that Opera is using. After all, the plugin works much better with Firefox (even native Firefox, using nspluginwrapper). It seems that Opera's "operapluginwrapper" has some bugs, or it tries to use things that FreeBSD's Linux emulation isn't providing correctly. (I guess it's the latter, because it works better under Linux.) By the way, I'm using RELENG_7 (just a few days old) and linux_base-f8 with compat.linux.osrelease=2.6.16, linprocfs and even linsysfs (even though I believe that Opera and Flash don't really need linsysfs). Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch?ftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M?n- chen, HRB 125758, Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "... there are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are _obviously_ no deficiencies and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no _obvious_ deficiencies." -- C.A.R. Hoare, ACM Turing Award Lecture, 1980 From kris at pcbsd.com Mon Mar 9 06:55:00 2009 From: kris at pcbsd.com (Kris Moore) Date: Mon Mar 9 06:55:07 2009 Subject: Flash on FreeBSD (was Re: FreeBSD Bounties) In-Reply-To: <200903081330.n28DUYtr064489@lurza.secnetix.de> References: <200903081330.n28DUYtr064489@lurza.secnetix.de> Message-ID: <49B51D4C.7060708@pcbsd.com> Oliver Fromme wrote: > Matt Olander wrote: > > Dan Langille wrote: > > > Oliver Fromme wrote: > > > > I definitely prefer Opera for normal browsing because it's > > > > faster and has more useful features, so I use it most of > > > > the time. I only start up Firefox when I need to visit > > > > a site that requires Flash, which doesn't happen too > > > > often, fortunately. > > > > > > I also use Opera. It is my browser of choice on more than one > > > platform. > > > > > > I'd like Flash to just work. > > > > I've cc'd Kris from the PC-BSD project as I'm not sure he's subscribed > > to the list. I'm also a big fan of Opera and it's working well with > > Flash on the last PC-BSD alpha with no work on my part. > > Are you sure? When I first started testing it, it _seemed_ > to work well, too, but after some time it started hanging > and accumulating dead "operapliginwrapper" processes. > > In particular, I'm using the sites http://www.youtupe.de > and http://www.spiegel.de/video/ (sorry, mostly German). > The first video on both of those sites usually plays fine, > but when you continue browsing videos, it'll start hanging > on the third or forth video, and then it gets unusable. > > > Kris, did you > > have to add any secret sauce to get Flash working so well with > > Firefox, Konqueror, and Opera in the last alpha? > > I'd be very much interested in the answer to that question, > too. > > > FYI, we're working closely with Adobe to get native Flash on FreeBSD. > > I expect we'll have a solution at some point this year. > > That's very good news! > > However, I think the problems I'm seeing are not caused by > the Flash plugin itself, but by the glue code that Opera > is using. After all, the plugin works much better with > Firefox (even native Firefox, using nspluginwrapper). > > It seems that Opera's "operapluginwrapper" has some bugs, > or it tries to use things that FreeBSD's Linux emulation > isn't providing correctly. (I guess it's the latter, > because it works better under Linux.) > > By the way, I'm using RELENG_7 (just a few days old) and > linux_base-f8 with compat.linux.osrelease=2.6.16, linprocfs > and even linsysfs (even though I believe that Opera and > Flash don't really need linsysfs). > > Best regards > Oliver > I think we're all in the same boat here. Opera hasn't been working properly with the Flash 9 plugin here either. I can get it to "see" the wrapper plugin, but whenever it tries to utilize it, it just throws "startPlugin failed" on stderr, with no other information. The same plugin works great on FF and Konqueror though, so I think its an opera problem. -- Kris Moore From olli at lurza.secnetix.de Mon Mar 9 08:41:52 2009 From: olli at lurza.secnetix.de (Oliver Fromme) Date: Mon Mar 9 08:41:59 2009 Subject: Flash on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <200903081330.n28DUYtr064489@lurza.secnetix.de> Message-ID: <200903091541.n29FfhZh028424@lurza.secnetix.de> Oliver Fromme wrote: > [...] > In particular, I'm using the sites http://www.youtupe.de > and http://www.spiegel.de/video/ (sorry, mostly German). I'm sorry for the stupid typo, that should be http://www.youtube.com of course. I just noticed that the bogus domain "youtupe.de" does indeed exist ... Of course I didn't meant that one. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch?ftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M?n- chen, HRB 125758, Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "When your hammer is C++, everything begins to look like a thumb." -- Steve Haflich, in comp.lang.c++ From freebsdhandbook at 163.com Tue Mar 10 13:52:32 2009 From: freebsdhandbook at 163.com (=?UTF-8?B?ZCAg6ZmI?=) Date: Tue Mar 10 13:52:41 2009 Subject: =?utf-8?b?MeKYhSAg55m8JiM5Mjvnpag=?= Message-ID: <200903101848.n2AImf3m040460@w2.mtf.tpc.yahoo.com> d é å¯äºä¸åæç« çµ¦ä½ å!! ------------------------------------------------------------ 給æ¨ççè¨ï¼ ï¼è¯·ä¸è¦åå¤å件人ï¼è°¢è°¢ï¼ â å¬å¸è² è²¬äººï¼ æ¨å¥½ï¼ â æå¬å¸é¿ææç¼\票代é,åæ¬ï¼ååã建ç¯ã åé貨éã廣åãéåºä½å®¿ã諮詢ãé輸çã â é³ãçï¼13928451175 â æ¥åQQï¼970378804 â é® ç®±ï¼yhsy111168@163.com 注æï¼è¯·ä¸è¦åå¤å件人ï¼è°¢è°¢ï¼ http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/jw!iV9BKgmcREN60IDib4WZboFctsvn6aw-/guestbo ok 1â ç¼\票 [1]http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/jw!iV9BKgmcREN60IDib4WZboFctsvn6aw-/gues tbook Yahoo!å¥æ©æå° ä½ çæå°.åå³.çæ´»æ°é«é©ã [2]http://tw.fashion.yahoo.com/ çæ¬ææ Yahoo!å¥æ© References 1. http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/jw!iV9BKgmcREN60IDib4WZboFctsvn6aw-/guestbook 2. http://tw.fashion.yahoo.com/ From jamesthefishy at gmail.com Thu Mar 12 02:43:17 2009 From: jamesthefishy at gmail.com (james michael) Date: Thu Mar 12 02:43:23 2009 Subject: Idea. Message-ID: <49B8D940.70606@gmail.com> I noticed a lot of the "free media" programs actually failed but I thought I might run idea through some people, a free media program directed not at any distro/flavor but just directed to help people learn. Just an idea from your kind friends at the PLC (pulpie learning community) pulpie.ath.cx From soralx at cydem.org Fri Mar 13 21:23:46 2009 From: soralx at cydem.org (soralx@cydem.org) Date: Fri Mar 13 21:23:52 2009 Subject: FreeBSD Bounties In-Reply-To: <49B1B9C9.5050501@emailrob.com> References: <200903061346.n26Dk9K5057916@lurza.secnetix.de> <49B1B9C9.5050501@emailrob.com> Message-ID: <20090313205532.03a75c04@soralx> [snip] > question: if the "browser_products" of other entities are --so-- > problematic, just --how-- difficult would it be to "roll our own" ? > > note that this question is --not-- the same as asking > how long it would take to code all of the whiz_bangs > that the marketing_department_dweebs want to advertise. > > it doesn't have to do everything, > but, what it does do must be done well; reliably, predictably. > > i would want it to do things "the bsd way", e. g., search by reg_ex. > it would be totally divorced from anything "gnu". > i don't care about animation [ images hog bandwidth, big_time ]. [snip] > i have been researching how to write a "browser". > it is my understanding that, > once i can recursively render tables, the rest is comparitively easy. > i have not, just yet, figured_out how to do the secure_http thing > [ this is where i am stalled ]. > i want a program > that, either, is or, to the outside_world, appears to be a > "browser"_like thingy and which is --programmable--, > so that it may, in co_ordination with my book_keeping app, > log in to any account, > >----> to which i am already authorized access, <----< > such as my bank or my electric_utility, > in the middle_of_the_night, while i am asleep, > to down_load transaction_events or other postings, > to up_load bill_payment schedulings or other instructions, > so that i don't have to use my waking moments to > do these routine, but, necessary, time_consuming chores. isn't "links" or "lynx", with some modifications, exactly what you want? or are they too complex to modify? [snip] > rob spellberg [SorAlx] ridin' VN2000 Classic LT From chuckr at telenix.org Sat Mar 14 14:06:19 2009 From: chuckr at telenix.org (Chuck Robey) Date: Sat Mar 14 14:06:25 2009 Subject: FreeBSD Bounties In-Reply-To: <20090313205532.03a75c04@soralx> References: <200903061346.n26Dk9K5057916@lurza.secnetix.de> <49B1B9C9.5050501@emailrob.com> <20090313205532.03a75c04@soralx> Message-ID: <49BC1410.6030004@telenix.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 soralx@cydem.org wrote: > [snip] >> question: if the "browser_products" of other entities are --so-- >> problematic, just --how-- difficult would it be to "roll our own" ? >> >> note that this question is --not-- the same as asking >> how long it would take to code all of the whiz_bangs >> that the marketing_department_dweebs want to advertise. >> >> it doesn't have to do everything, >> but, what it does do must be done well; reliably, predictably. >> >> i would want it to do things "the bsd way", e. g., search by reg_ex. >> it would be totally divorced from anything "gnu". >> i don't care about animation [ images hog bandwidth, big_time ]. > [snip] >> i have been researching how to write a "browser". >> it is my understanding that, >> once i can recursively render tables, the rest is comparitively easy. >> i have not, just yet, figured_out how to do the secure_http thing >> [ this is where i am stalled ]. >> i want a program >> that, either, is or, to the outside_world, appears to be a >> "browser"_like thingy and which is --programmable--, >> so that it may, in co_ordination with my book_keeping app, >> log in to any account, >> >----> to which i am already authorized access, <----< >> such as my bank or my electric_utility, >> in the middle_of_the_night, while i am asleep, >> to down_load transaction_events or other postings, >> to up_load bill_payment schedulings or other instructions, >> so that i don't have to use my waking moments to >> do these routine, but, necessary, time_consuming chores. I might be misreading you, but you're talking about doing what is basically a way to do your bookkeeping app remotely, and make it adaptable to your targets (which I'm thinking you're not talking about supplying yourself). It seems to me that making your interface, and making it adaptable to your app's targets, is the main thing, and NOT the browser. A browser needs to be capable of hitting a wide array of standards, but far, far more general in scope than what's required by your app. So, it seems to me that what you really want is a program that interfaces your targets to an html protocol, and really, then make use of any of the existing browsers, the better ones. You *could* then at a later date (if you still find it interesting) write a browser, but concentrate on getting your app to play nice with html, and leverage all of the existing high quality work presently existing (stuff like firefox). Trying to do a general purpose browser now would require you to do tons of software that would be far afield of your actual main goal. I'm not saying that doing a thing like a browser isn't a worthy goal, merely that it seems to be a very separate target than a browser, so I'd consider each item as a separate goal, making use of existing standards to link the two. If you start writing a browser now, you're going to find yourself either doing a very limited browser, or doing a ton of software that's only slightly connected to your bookkeeping goal. > isn't "links" or "lynx", with some modifications, exactly what you > want? or are they too complex to modify? > > [snip] > >> rob spellberg > > [SorAlx] ridin' VN2000 Classic LT > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkm8FBAACgkQz62J6PPcoOkIYgCeNAaLiHTxOlCrynObKsSWPc0J u20AoKVTvUT4Y+/yucAHScApdVj5jfRv =zw6G -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From lists at stringsutils.com Tue Mar 17 12:54:24 2009 From: lists at stringsutils.com (Francisco Reyes) Date: Tue Mar 17 12:54:37 2009 Subject: Announcing FreeBSD Bounties! References: <20090305143932.2m5hub4n4w0swk0o@www.hmallett.co.uk> Message-ID: Hywel Mallett writes: > Check it out at http://www.freebsdbounties.info How about a way to discuss the bounties? Could be as simple as a forum where people can just discuss the merit of a bounty. > All feedback is appreciated. Wouldn't hurt to have a Contact link and a Feedback link right in the site. From fbsd32 at freeode.co.uk Thu Mar 19 07:48:19 2009 From: fbsd32 at freeode.co.uk (John Murphy) Date: Thu Mar 19 07:48:31 2009 Subject: Talking of FreeBSD bounties, VMWare 6.x? Message-ID: <20090319142509.35e85d80@asus> Good afternoon, I'm not at all up to date with FreeBSD, but I remember being quite excited by the possibility of 'Vmware 6.x on FreeBSD', A $3,500 rsync.net bounty claimed by Orlando Bassotto in 2007. http://www.rsync.net/resources/notices/2007cb.html I checked Mr Bassotto's web site shortly after reading the news and at increasing intervals over the months thereafter, but "a few weeks" is turning into a few years: http://www.break.net/orlando/ I wonder if anyone here knows of any progress? FreeBSD seems sadly lacking in the Virtualizer host department, while, IMHO it would make the perfect host: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/virtualization-host.html -- Thanks, John. From solarux at hotmail.com Thu Mar 19 08:14:23 2009 From: solarux at hotmail.com (Rick N) Date: Thu Mar 19 08:14:29 2009 Subject: Talking of FreeBSD bounties, VMWare 6.x? In-Reply-To: <20090319142509.35e85d80@asus> References: <20090319142509.35e85d80@asus> Message-ID: Hi John, I understand Vmware is commercial, but what about Sun's/OpenSolaris's xVM, (VirtualBox) its free. I haven't played with it in awhile but FreeBSD could be run as a Guest OS. Maybe the newer version can support FreeBSD hosting. Needless, its popular within alot of linux users, ... http://www.sun.com/software/products/virtualbox/index.jsp cheers, Rick. > Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:25:09 +0000 > From: fbsd32@freeode.co.uk > To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > Subject: Talking of FreeBSD bounties, VMWare 6.x? > > Good afternoon, > > I'm not at all up to date with FreeBSD, but I remember being quite > excited by the possibility of 'Vmware 6.x on FreeBSD', A $3,500 > rsync.net bounty claimed by Orlando Bassotto in 2007. > > http://www.rsync.net/resources/notices/2007cb.html > > I checked Mr Bassotto's web site shortly after reading the news > and at increasing intervals over the months thereafter, but "a few > weeks" is turning into a few years: > > http://www.break.net/orlando/ > > I wonder if anyone here knows of any progress? FreeBSD seems > sadly lacking in the Virtualizer host department, while, IMHO > it would make the perfect host: > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/virtualization-host.html > > -- > Thanks, John. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" _________________________________________________________________ Reunite with the people closest to you, chat face to face with Messenger. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9650736 From fbsd32 at freeode.co.uk Thu Mar 19 09:02:20 2009 From: fbsd32 at freeode.co.uk (John Murphy) Date: Thu Mar 19 09:02:26 2009 Subject: Talking of FreeBSD bounties, VMWare 6.x? In-Reply-To: References: <20090319142509.35e85d80@asus> Message-ID: <20090319160219.249fff07@asus> On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:01:20 +0000 Rick N wrote: > I understand Vmware is commercial, but what about Sun's/OpenSolaris's xVM, (VirtualBox) its free. I haven't played with it in awhile but FreeBSD could be run as a Guest OS. Maybe the newer version can support FreeBSD hosting. Needless, its popular within alot of linux users, ... Hi Rick, Yes, I use VirtualBox regularly on my Linux-Mint desktop. It works extremely well, apart from its fledgling OpenGL support. It's great for those, thankfully rare, occasions when I need to run the Redmond software. -- Thanks, John. From jamesthefishy at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 14:15:07 2009 From: jamesthefishy at gmail.com (james michael) Date: Thu Mar 19 14:15:14 2009 Subject: Talking of FreeBSD bounties, VMWare 6.x? In-Reply-To: <20090319160219.249fff07@asus> References: <20090319142509.35e85d80@asus> <20090319160219.249fff07@asus> Message-ID: <49C2B5D7.9050605@gmail.com> John Murphy wrote: > On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:01:20 +0000 Rick N wrote: > > >> I understand Vmware is commercial, but what about Sun's/OpenSolaris's xVM, (VirtualBox) its free. I haven't played with it in awhile but FreeBSD could be run as a Guest OS. Maybe the newer version can support FreeBSD hosting. Needless, its popular within alot of linux users, ... >> > > Hi Rick, > > Yes, I use VirtualBox regularly on my Linux-Mint desktop. > It works extremely well, apart from its fledgling OpenGL support. > It's great for those, thankfully rare, occasions when I need to > run the Redmond software. > > I do like vb and I ran it on vista, xp and Linux before I finally got enough computers + ssh and vnc. In my opinion in all honesty no one needs a virtual software as well as the freebsd kernel still had problems on VB last time i checked about 3 months ago or less. I also don't know what you mean by "supporting freebsd hosting" but if you mean to use a VB session as a serious freebsd server, I would think again. I wouldn't even do this with Linux although vb supports it enough. Anyways I hope it does work not or eventually if it solves other peoples problems. I guess with the ways I have things setup I just don't need virtualization. Best of Luck. From josh at tcbug.org Fri Mar 20 07:26:04 2009 From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel) Date: Fri Mar 20 07:26:10 2009 Subject: Fun to amaze linux users Message-ID: <49533DD0-5F2B-4EC6-86B8-EFA0ABB185AA@tcbug.org> (08:40) last pid: 61373; load averages: 376.25, 362.00, 330.0 up 111+20:25:56 09:49:06 (08:40) 424 processes: 389 running, 35 sleeping (08:40) Sometimes you just wish things would reboot (08:41) no doubt (08:41) how can you even retreive a load average on a machine with 376? (08:42) it's slow, but did let me log in. (08:42) I thought it was network issues at first. (09:06) I suppose the answer to your question really is "by not running linux" Thanks, Josh Paetzel From matt at ixsystems.com Fri Mar 20 10:05:32 2009 From: matt at ixsystems.com (Matt Olander) Date: Fri Mar 20 10:05:38 2009 Subject: Fun to amaze linux users In-Reply-To: <49533DD0-5F2B-4EC6-86B8-EFA0ABB185AA@tcbug.org> References: <49533DD0-5F2B-4EC6-86B8-EFA0ABB185AA@tcbug.org> Message-ID: <9740caf0903200943l458b30d8ned19d9edd22cb469@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 7:10 AM, Josh Paetzel wrote: > (08:40) last pid: 61373; load averages: 376.25, 362.00, 330.0 up > 111+20:25:56 09:49:06 > (08:40) 424 processes: 389 running, 35 sleeping > (08:40) Sometimes you just wish things would reboot > (08:41) no doubt > (08:41) how can you even retreive a load average on a machine > with > 376? > (08:42) it's slow, but did let me log in. > (08:42) I thought it was network issues at first. > (09:06) I suppose the answer to your question really is "by not > running linux" Hahaha! I just spit coffee all over my FreeBSD workstation ;-) That was funny. Wait...that's not one of the PC-BSD project release servers is it? *stops laughing* -matt From kdk at daleco.biz Fri Mar 20 12:37:10 2009 From: kdk at daleco.biz (Kevin Kinsey) Date: Fri Mar 20 12:37:17 2009 Subject: spamassassin helps lots, but I'm tired of sorting the backscatter ;-) Message-ID: <49C3F051.9010501@daleco.biz> Hello! Anybody got a good way to send an automagic Ping'o'death to a spammer's computer? Maybe there's a "kick butt" plugin for AmavisD? If I were Captain Kirk, surely I'd be able to have Spock program the ship to beam a photon bomb directly to their location; I suppose, however, being only the 21st century, such technology isn't available yet. :-D Kevin Kinsey -- Bolub's Fourth Law of Computerdom: Project teams detest weekly progress reporting because it so vividly manifests their lack of progress. From personrp at UPMC.EDU Fri Mar 20 13:07:47 2009 From: personrp at UPMC.EDU (Person, Roderick) Date: Fri Mar 20 13:07:54 2009 Subject: spamassassin helps lots, but I'm tired of sorting the backscatter ;-) In-Reply-To: <49C3F051.9010501@daleco.biz> References: <49C3F051.9010501@daleco.biz> Message-ID: <1AE59099C6D80E41BEB64A1768AFB4EA0A690427@msxmbxnsprd18.acct.upmchs.net> -----Original Message----- >Hello! > > Anybody got a good way to send an automagic Ping'o'death to a spammer's computer? Maybe there's a "kick butt" > plugin for AmavisD? > > If I were Captain Kirk, surely I'd be able to have Spock program the ship to beam a photon bomb directly to their location; > I suppose, however, being only the 21st century, such technology isn't available yet. > > If you find one let me know. I recall years ago into looking into this and was told it was illegal to do such a thing in response to a spammer, but it was ok for them to spam me. That never made sense to me, but I stop trying to figure it out. Rod Person Sr. Programmer (412)454-2616 http://www.ccbh.com "And of all the passions the most mischievous is pleasure. Why so? Because all things are the slave of pleasure; and because the life of the wicked is governed by pleasure as by a master." - Philo The Second Book of the Treatise on The Allegories of the Sacred Laws, after the Work of the Six Days of Creation. From des at des.no Fri Mar 20 14:40:41 2009 From: des at des.no (=?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) Date: Fri Mar 20 14:40:47 2009 Subject: spamassassin helps lots, but I'm tired of sorting the backscatter ; -) In-Reply-To: <1AE59099C6D80E41BEB64A1768AFB4EA0A690427@msxmbxnsprd18.acct.upmchs.net> (Roderick Person's message of "Fri, 20 Mar 2009 15:56:51 -0400") References: <49C3F051.9010501@daleco.biz> <1AE59099C6D80E41BEB64A1768AFB4EA0A690427@msxmbxnsprd18.acct.upmchs.net> Message-ID: <86y6uzj396.fsf@ds4.des.no> "Person, Roderick" writes: > Kevin Kinsey writes: > > Anybody got a good way to send an automagic Ping'o'death to a > > spammer's computer? > I recall years ago into looking into this and was told it was illegal > to do such a thing in response to a spammer, but it was ok for them to > spam me. That never made sense to me, but I stop trying to figure it > out. It *is* illegal, and for good cause. It's called vigilantism. As for the legality of spam - almost all spam these days is either fraud, advertising for illegal and / or fake medication, or both, and almost all of it is sent from hijacked computers. That makes spam doubly illegal: 1) illegal intrusion into a computer system for the purpose of committing 2) wire fraud and / or trading in illegal substances. IANAL, though, and I don't even play one on TV. DES -- Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav - des@des.no From olli at lurza.secnetix.de Fri Mar 20 15:40:35 2009 From: olli at lurza.secnetix.de (Oliver Fromme) Date: Fri Mar 20 15:40:56 2009 Subject: spamassassin helps lots, but I'm tired of sorting the backscatter ; -) In-Reply-To: <49C3F051.9010501@daleco.biz> Message-ID: <200903202240.n2KMe1Re007705@lurza.secnetix.de> Kevin Kinsey wrote: > Anybody got a good way to send an automagic Ping'o'death > to a spammer's computer? Maybe there's a "kick butt" > plugin for AmavisD? Note that, in most cases, it is very difficult to identify the real source of the spammer. The "From" header line and the envelope sender address usually do not point to the spammer. Trying to shoot back to those is a very bad idea. The only reasonable thing you can do with spam is drop it to /dev/null. If it makes you feel better, you can create a symlink /dev/painful_death -> /dev/null and instruct your mail filter to drop spam there instead. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch?ftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M?n- chen, HRB 125758, Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd In my experience the term "transparent proxy" is an oxymoron (like jumbo shrimp). "Transparent" proxies seem to vary from the distortions of a funhouse mirror to barely translucent. I really, really dislike them when trying to figure out the corrective lenses needed with each of them. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer From david at catwhisker.org Fri Mar 20 16:20:46 2009 From: david at catwhisker.org (David Wolfskill) Date: Fri Mar 20 16:20:52 2009 Subject: spamassassin helps lots, but I'm tired of sorting the backscatter ; -) In-Reply-To: <200903202240.n2KMe1Re007705@lurza.secnetix.de> References: <49C3F051.9010501@daleco.biz> <200903202240.n2KMe1Re007705@lurza.secnetix.de> Message-ID: <20090320230534.GC77783@albert.catwhisker.org> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 11:40:01PM +0100, Oliver Fromme wrote: > ... > The only reasonable thing you can do with spam is drop it > to /dev/null. If it makes you feel better, you can create > a symlink /dev/painful_death -> /dev/null and instruct > your mail filter to drop spam there instead. With respect, my preferred approach differs slightly. I instruct my MTA to reject (or, in certain special cases, silently discard) the spam during the SMTP conversation. Granted, there are several reasons that approach isn't for everyone -- or even very many folks; because of that, it may fail your "reasonable thing" criterion. :-} But I find it useful despite that. Peace, david -- David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org Depriving a girl or boy of an opportunity for education is evil. See http://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-chat/attachments/20090320/d00b0b94/attachment.pgp From m.seaman at infracaninophile.co.uk Sat Mar 21 01:32:53 2009 From: m.seaman at infracaninophile.co.uk (Matthew Seaman) Date: Sat Mar 21 01:33:02 2009 Subject: spamassassin helps lots, but I'm tired of sorting the backscatter ; -) In-Reply-To: <200903202240.n2KMe1Re007705@lurza.secnetix.de> References: <200903202240.n2KMe1Re007705@lurza.secnetix.de> Message-ID: <49C4A61D.1050102@infracaninophile.co.uk> Oliver Fromme wrote: > Kevin Kinsey wrote: > > Anybody got a good way to send an automagic Ping'o'death > > to a spammer's computer? Maybe there's a "kick butt" > > plugin for AmavisD? > > Note that, in most cases, it is very difficult to identify > the real source of the spammer. The "From" header line > and the envelope sender address usually do not point to > the spammer. Trying to shoot back to those is a very bad > idea. > > The only reasonable thing you can do with spam is drop it > to /dev/null. If it makes you feel better, you can create > a symlink /dev/painful_death -> /dev/null and instruct > your mail filter to drop spam there instead. Not so. The best thing you can do about spam is refuse to accept it during the SMTP dialogue stage. This has two beneficial effects. * It allows you to visibly reject the spam without causing backscatter * It may well result in bounce-o-grammes being sent to the admins of compromised systems. (Not always -- but I've seen a trend for some botnet zombies to send outgoing spam via their usual mail relays rather than directly) The second best thing you can do is take your own sweet time over processing incoming spam messages. Contrary to all appearances, there are still more people targeted by spam than there are spam sources. Spammers get paid for pumping out millions of messages. Any simple way there is of slowing down that traffic will lower their income or raise their marginal costs and it won't take too much to put at least a few of them out of business. Tarpitting or teergrube does that and can tie up a dozen or more spam senders at a time without killing the performance of your own mail systems. For the latter task, I can most heartily recommend obspamd (net/spamd spamd(8) -- not to be confused with the spamd(1) program which is part of spamassassin. My only complaint is that it does not understand IPv6) Cheers Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate Kent, CT11 9PW -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-chat/attachments/20090321/23c96215/signature.pgp From olli at lurza.secnetix.de Tue Mar 24 04:02:11 2009 From: olli at lurza.secnetix.de (Oliver Fromme) Date: Tue Mar 24 04:02:18 2009 Subject: spamassassin helps lots, but I'm tired of sorting the ?backscatter ; -) In-Reply-To: <20090320230534.GC77783@albert.catwhisker.org> Message-ID: <200903241101.n2OB1kAa035969@lurza.secnetix.de> David Wolfskill wrote: > Oliver Fromme wrote: > > ... > > The only reasonable thing you can do with spam is drop it > > to /dev/null. If it makes you feel better, you can create > > a symlink /dev/painful_death -> /dev/null and instruct > > your mail filter to drop spam there instead. > > With respect, my preferred approach differs slightly. > > I instruct my MTA to reject (or, in certain special cases, silently > discard) the spam during the SMTP conversation. Of course. That goes without saying. My wording should have been clearer: The only reasonable thing you can do with spam that your MTA had to accept during the SMTP protocol (for whatever reason). Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch?ftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M?n- chen, HRB 125758, Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "A misleading benchmark test can accomplish in minutes what years of good engineering can never do." -- Dilbert (2009-03-02) From matt at ixsystems.com Tue Mar 24 11:22:53 2009 From: matt at ixsystems.com (Matt Olander) Date: Tue Mar 24 11:22:59 2009 Subject: FreeBSD and Astronomy Message-ID: <8B3758D3-C067-43B1-A62F-DD7B7537793D@ixsystems.com> Hi! Is anybody into astronomy on FreeBSD? I'd love to hook up a telescope to my FreeBSD laptop and use some software to control it while we look at stars on the monitor, zoom in, and the scope moves. This would be fun taking to local astronomy groups as well as conferences :-) Any advice welcome! If anybody has a working setup, I'd love to hear details such as the brand/model of scope and the software that you're using on FreeBSD. Thanks! -matt From doconnor at gsoft.com.au Tue Mar 24 15:57:08 2009 From: doconnor at gsoft.com.au (Daniel O'Connor) Date: Tue Mar 24 15:57:14 2009 Subject: FreeBSD and Astronomy In-Reply-To: <8B3758D3-C067-43B1-A62F-DD7B7537793D@ixsystems.com> References: <8B3758D3-C067-43B1-A62F-DD7B7537793D@ixsystems.com> Message-ID: <200903250859.17013.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> On Wednesday 25 March 2009 04:52:50 Matt Olander wrote: > Hi! > > Is anybody into astronomy on FreeBSD? I'd love to hook up a telescope > to my FreeBSD laptop and use some software to control it while we look > at stars on the monitor, zoom in, and the scope moves. This would be > fun taking to local astronomy groups as well as conferences :-) > > Any advice welcome! If anybody has a working setup, I'd love to hear > details such as the brand/model of scope and the software that you're > using on FreeBSD. I don't have such a beastie but I believe there are a number of ports which can talk to telescopes via the serial port (eg xephem) -- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 5596 B766 97C0 0E94 4347 295E E593 DC20 7B3F CE8C -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-chat/attachments/20090324/971dc13f/attachment.pgp From jamesthefishy at gmail.com Tue Mar 24 16:44:28 2009 From: jamesthefishy at gmail.com (james michael) Date: Tue Mar 24 16:44:35 2009 Subject: FreeBSD and Astronomy In-Reply-To: <8B3758D3-C067-43B1-A62F-DD7B7537793D@ixsystems.com> References: <8B3758D3-C067-43B1-A62F-DD7B7537793D@ixsystems.com> Message-ID: <49C97059.6010805@gmail.com> I've always wanted to get more into astronomy but never had the time or the equipment. If anyone knows of more ways to get into the subject I would appreciate it. Matt Olander wrote: > Hi! > > Is anybody into astronomy on FreeBSD? I'd love to hook up a telescope > to my FreeBSD laptop and use some software to control it while we look > at stars on the monitor, zoom in, and the scope moves. This would be > fun taking to local astronomy groups as well as conferences :-) > > Any advice welcome! If anybody has a working setup, I'd love to hear > details such as the brand/model of scope and the software that you're > using on FreeBSD. > > Thanks! > -matt > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From ken at stox.org Tue Mar 24 17:51:35 2009 From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox) Date: Tue Mar 24 17:51:41 2009 Subject: FreeBSD and Astronomy In-Reply-To: <49C97059.6010805@gmail.com> References: <8B3758D3-C067-43B1-A62F-DD7B7537793D@ixsystems.com> <49C97059.6010805@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1237940692.27702.9.camel@stox.dyndns.org> On Tue, 2009-03-24 at 16:44 -0700, james michael wrote: > I've always wanted to get more into astronomy but never had the time or > the equipment. If anyone knows of more ways to get into the subject I > would appreciate it. 1) Install astro/xephem. 2) Buy a telescope. 3) ???? 4) Profit! From jamesthefishy at gmail.com Tue Mar 24 18:06:50 2009 From: jamesthefishy at gmail.com (james michael) Date: Tue Mar 24 18:06:56 2009 Subject: FreeBSD and Astronomy In-Reply-To: <1237940692.27702.9.camel@stox.dyndns.org> References: <8B3758D3-C067-43B1-A62F-DD7B7537793D@ixsystems.com> <49C97059.6010805@gmail.com> <1237940692.27702.9.camel@stox.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <49C983A7.7050900@gmail.com> Are there any public use astronomy servers? you know sign up and use a telescope via the server? Kenneth P. Stox wrote: > On Tue, 2009-03-24 at 16:44 -0700, james michael wrote: > >> I've always wanted to get more into astronomy but never had the time or >> the equipment. If anyone knows of more ways to get into the subject I >> would appreciate it. >> > > 1) Install astro/xephem. > 2) Buy a telescope. > 3) ???? > 4) Profit! > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From ken at stox.org Tue Mar 24 19:28:11 2009 From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox) Date: Tue Mar 24 19:28:18 2009 Subject: FreeBSD and Astronomy In-Reply-To: <49C983A7.7050900@gmail.com> References: <8B3758D3-C067-43B1-A62F-DD7B7537793D@ixsystems.com> <49C97059.6010805@gmail.com> <1237940692.27702.9.camel@stox.dyndns.org> <49C983A7.7050900@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1237948089.7906.6.camel@stox.dyndns.org> On Tue, 2009-03-24 at 18:06 -0700, james michael wrote: > Are there any public use astronomy servers? you know sign up and use a > telescope via the server? Some astronomical societies have setups for members that I have heard of. Try contacting one in your area. I am not aware of any open to the public servers. There are also some companies that sell access to their telescopes. Of course, you can always write a proposal to the Space Telescope Institute and see if you can get some Hubble time. From melanie at pcbsd.org Tue Mar 24 20:04:40 2009 From: melanie at pcbsd.org (Melanie Vonfange) Date: Tue Mar 24 20:04:46 2009 Subject: FreeBSD and Astronomy In-Reply-To: <8B3758D3-C067-43B1-A62F-DD7B7537793D@ixsystems.com> References: <8B3758D3-C067-43B1-A62F-DD7B7537793D@ixsystems.com> Message-ID: <9df43a1e0903241936n2a7176e5l554dad88ab7dc37a@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Matt Olander wrote: > Hi! > > Is anybody into astronomy on FreeBSD? I'd love to hook up a telescope to my > FreeBSD laptop and use some software to control it while we look at stars on > the monitor, zoom in, and the scope moves. This would be fun taking to local > astronomy groups as well as conferences :-) > > Any advice welcome! If anybody has a working setup, I'd love to hear details > such as the brand/model of scope and the software that you're using on > FreeBSD. > > Thanks! > Hey Matt! :) Our Preschooler is getting into astronomy and so we have been using Celestia. It's an Open Source 3D deep space simulator. It doesn't have a FreeBSD version yet, but the source code is available on the site http://www.shatters.net/celestia/download.html I know it isn't exactly what you are looking for, but it might be a nice thing to look into while you search! - Melanie From alexsm at gmail.com Tue Mar 24 21:02:07 2009 From: alexsm at gmail.com (Alex Moura) Date: Tue Mar 24 21:02:14 2009 Subject: FreeBSD and Astronomy In-Reply-To: <9df43a1e0903241936n2a7176e5l554dad88ab7dc37a@mail.gmail.com> References: <8B3758D3-C067-43B1-A62F-DD7B7537793D@ixsystems.com> <9df43a1e0903241936n2a7176e5l554dad88ab7dc37a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Melanie Vonfange wrote: > On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Matt Olander wrote: > > Hi! > > > > Is anybody into astronomy on FreeBSD? I'd love to hook up a telescope to > my > > FreeBSD laptop and use some software to control it while we look at stars > on > > the monitor, zoom in, and the scope moves. This would be fun taking to > local > > astronomy groups as well as conferences :-) > > > > Any advice welcome! If anybody has a working setup, I'd love to hear > details > > such as the brand/model of scope and the software that you're using on > > FreeBSD. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Hey Matt! :) Our Preschooler is getting into astronomy and so we have > been using Celestia. It's an Open Source 3D deep space simulator. > It doesn't have a FreeBSD version yet, but the source code is > available on the site http://www.shatters.net/celestia/download.html > > I know it isn't exactly what you are looking for, but it might be a > nice thing to look into while you search! > > - Melanie > Hi, There's also Stellarium - already in ports - wich happens to have some telescope integration: http://stellarium.sf.net http://www.stellarium.org/wiki/index.php/Telescope_Control http://www.stellarium.org/wiki/index.php/Telescope_Compatibility http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Board/nexstargps/Number/2023993/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/o/fpart/all Maybe this will work. - Alex From negrea_stefan at yahoo.com Tue Mar 24 19:29:21 2009 From: negrea_stefan at yahoo.com (Stefan Negrea) Date: Tue Mar 24 22:14:47 2009 Subject: Software Development Process Help Message-ID: <474191.72749.qm@web30808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Everybody, Over the past couple of months I documented a new software development process for open source projects and communities. The new process attempts to address shortcomings of existing major software development processes and build upon existing attempts of open source communities. A document with a detailed description of the process along with a short presentation of the process can be found in the survey described below. This work will be my thesis for a Master?s degree in Software Engineering. I would need help from open source contributors to validate my work. I created a simple survey with seven basic questions that would help understand if the process is applicable and viable in the open source space. The survey can be found here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?hl=en&formkey=cFg5UUVKakwyOTJ2eDhNWDM5WUlfVlE6MA . The survey is completely anonymous. I apologize in advance for any grammatical errors or mistakes; the document is a rough draft (I am editing the document everyday). Any help would be greatly appreciated and acknowledged! Please feel free to contact me for any additional details or questions. Thank you, Stefan From ken at stox.org Tue Mar 24 23:06:31 2009 From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox) Date: Tue Mar 24 23:06:38 2009 Subject: FreeBSD and Astronomy In-Reply-To: <9df43a1e0903241936n2a7176e5l554dad88ab7dc37a@mail.gmail.com> References: <8B3758D3-C067-43B1-A62F-DD7B7537793D@ixsystems.com> <9df43a1e0903241936n2a7176e5l554dad88ab7dc37a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1237959587.14236.2.camel@stox.dyndns.org> On Tue, 2009-03-24 at 21:36 -0500, Melanie Vonfange wrote: > On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Matt Olander wrote: > > Hi! > > > > Is anybody into astronomy on FreeBSD? I'd love to hook up a telescope to my > > FreeBSD laptop and use some software to control it while we look at stars on > > the monitor, zoom in, and the scope moves. This would be fun taking to local > > astronomy groups as well as conferences :-) > > > > Any advice welcome! If anybody has a working setup, I'd love to hear details > > such as the brand/model of scope and the software that you're using on > > FreeBSD. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Hey Matt! :) Our Preschooler is getting into astronomy and so we have > been using Celestia. It's an Open Source 3D deep space simulator. > It doesn't have a FreeBSD version yet, but the source code is > available on the site http://www.shatters.net/celestia/download.html > > I know it isn't exactly what you are looking for, but it might be a > nice thing to look into while you search! Celestia is in ports/astro/celestia, celestia-gnome, celestia-gtk. From josh at tcbug.org Tue Mar 24 23:10:04 2009 From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel) Date: Tue Mar 24 23:10:11 2009 Subject: FreeBSD and Astronomy In-Reply-To: <8B3758D3-C067-43B1-A62F-DD7B7537793D@ixsystems.com> References: <8B3758D3-C067-43B1-A62F-DD7B7537793D@ixsystems.com> Message-ID: On Mar 24, 2009, at 1:22 PM, Matt Olander wrote: > Hi! > > Is anybody into astronomy on FreeBSD? I'd love to hook up a > telescope to my FreeBSD laptop and use some software to control it > while we look at stars on the monitor, zoom in, and the scope moves. > This would be fun taking to local astronomy groups as well as > conferences :-) > > Any advice welcome! If anybody has a working setup, I'd love to hear > details such as the brand/model of scope and the software that > you're using on FreeBSD. > > Thanks! > -matt > cd /usr/ports/astro/xephem && make maintainer *cough* The makers of xephem also created a protocol called INDI that allows xephem to control hardware. They have drivers for Meade, Celestron, and Takahasi telescopes. Thanks, Josh Paetzel From olli at lurza.secnetix.de Wed Mar 25 01:54:47 2009 From: olli at lurza.secnetix.de (Oliver Fromme) Date: Wed Mar 25 01:54:53 2009 Subject: FreeBSD and Astronomy In-Reply-To: <8B3758D3-C067-43B1-A62F-DD7B7537793D@ixsystems.com> Message-ID: <200903250854.n2P8sLnX014097@lurza.secnetix.de> Hi Since nobody has mentioned "nova" so far ... http://www.secnetix.de/tools/porgle/?w=d&q=telescope+control astro/nova An Integrated Observational Environment for amateur astronomers The Nova project is a free Integrated Observational Environment for amateur astronomers. It combines Ephemeris, Sky view, Observatory control and basic Image manipulation functionality into a single application. Features * Virtual view of night sky * Ephemeris calculation and plotting. * Telescope control * CCD control * Image manipulation * Supports most ASCII astronomical object catalogs * Automatic scheduling of observational activity. WWW: http://nova.sourceforge.net/ Note that I haven't used this port myswlf, so I can't tell for sure how good it is. But according to the description it might be useful for you. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch?ftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M?n- chen, HRB 125758, Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "Clear perl code is better than unclear awk code; but NOTHING comes close to unclear perl code" (taken from comp.lang.awk FAQ) From lists at stringsutils.com Wed Mar 25 10:12:57 2009 From: lists at stringsutils.com (Francisco Reyes) Date: Wed Mar 25 10:13:03 2009 Subject: Talking of FreeBSD bounties, VMWare 6.x? References: <20090319142509.35e85d80@asus> Message-ID: Rick N writes: > I understand Vmware is commercial, but what about Sun's/OpenSolaris's > xVM, (VirtualBox) its free. If I recall correctly... At one point someone from Sun/Virtualbox was looking for someone to do PAID work to get FreeBSD to work with Virtualbox. They could not find a single person to take on the task. The way I see it, if they can not get someone to do paid work, then there is little hope to see virtualization in the short term. From chuckr at telenix.org Thu Mar 26 13:07:20 2009 From: chuckr at telenix.org (Chuck Robey) Date: Thu Mar 26 13:07:27 2009 Subject: Telnet root login In-Reply-To: References: <995845.90009.qm@web63905.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <49CA6754.4030302@elischer.org> <49CAC20E.3020602@telenix.org> <49CAC8FE.5050708@elischer.org> <790a9fff0903251858w713adf32n85761295e42524d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49CBDA3A.5010704@telenix.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 This subject hasn't for anything at all to do with current, fellas, let's move it to chat, ok? it's going to get you into public trouble. Randy Bush wrote: >>> tar cjf - . | ssh user@hostb "(cd /desired/path; tar xjf -)" >> But I can't get full wire speed with ssh; with rsh I can. > > you want security? then it costs a bit. the times i want full wire > speed are rare. the times i want security are not. A common misconception among folks is that the full 1024 (or even bigger) key is only used for figuring out who you are (called authentication), and after you've got yourself authenticated, a fast algorithm (like IDEA, but it's configureable) is what's used, for speed. You need to be doing a lot of downloading of big files in order to feel the slowdown. Yeah, you do lose a very small amount, but not too much, IDEA's pretty efficient. And that complaint about rsh, ssh is usable to pass along shell commands, just the same way. I sometimes use a command like: ssh targetmachine lpr < filetoprint when I want to put some file on my local machine into the print queue of a foreign machine. It' executes lpr on the foreign machine, and transfers the file for you. Is that the kind of stuff you want in rsh, doable in ssh? If you've ever used rcp, you have (for ssh) scp, and I've always found the command syntax pretty simple. I just don't see where the ssh tools are inferior, in actual operation. The only thing zI really need to admit is that it seems like all the man pages ever written for any security stuff, their always written in a very hard to understand way, so it's hard to get started in ssh, harder than it has to be, but it's a fantastic tool. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAknL2joACgkQz62J6PPcoOmOwQCdHfQYlCSpqUAB0HCr268T38Ut C/oAn2ckv3Ik2o7fTlq9XHEUW7NTJO9p =u4g/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From hg at queue.to Thu Mar 26 18:27:17 2009 From: hg at queue.to (Howard Goldstein) Date: Thu Mar 26 18:27:24 2009 Subject: Need DNS secondarying Message-ID: <49CC2533.9070001@queue.to> Help, my DNS secondary has gone dark and I don't think he's coming back. I really need a secondarying of my three domains (one a local law office and the other two my vanity domains). These are low volume, we're talking about 1000 additional DNS queries/day and the zone records change maybe three or four times a year. The primary is on fiber at ns0.queue.to/71.180.69.18 running tinydns. Not spam. Unfortunately not pr0n either. In exchange I can secondary your stuff. Thanks, Howard, Sarasota Florida US From steinex at nognu.de Mon Mar 30 08:15:45 2009 From: steinex at nognu.de (Frank Steinborn) Date: Mon Mar 30 08:15:52 2009 Subject: Need DNS secondarying In-Reply-To: <49CC2533.9070001@queue.to> References: <49CC2533.9070001@queue.to> Message-ID: <20090330145140.GA45140@haydn.nognu.de> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 09:00:35PM -0400, Howard Goldstein wrote: > Help, my DNS secondary has gone dark and I don't think he's coming back. > I really need a secondarying of my three domains (one a local law > office and the other two my vanity domains). These are low volume, > we're talking about 1000 additional DNS queries/day and the zone records > change maybe three or four times a year. The primary is on fiber at > ns0.queue.to/71.180.69.18 running tinydns. Not spam. Unfortunately not > pr0n either. In exchange I can secondary your stuff. Thanks, Howard, > Sarasota Florida US I can do this. Please contact me off-list and we can arrange it. Frank From chuckr at telenix.org Tue Mar 31 13:30:47 2009 From: chuckr at telenix.org (Chuck Robey) Date: Tue Mar 31 13:31:05 2009 Subject: Why?? (prog question) In-Reply-To: <49D24EC8.7030507@gmail.com> References: <20090331025726.GA10888@thought.org> <20090331112122.ae329221.freebsd@edvax.de> <49D202F0.9010104@utoronto.ca> <20090331140845.a1ece3c0.freebsd@edvax.de> <49D24EC8.7030507@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49D27D8B.2070607@telenix.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 michael wrote: Moved to FreeBSD-chat, all opinions really belong there. > > > Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>>> Tabbing is the worst form of indentation. It is *much* better to use >>>> spaces consistently. The only real sin is not sticking to one style per project. All else is just folks being stubborn, and there is too much of that already in software, that "my opinion is the only acceptable one" snobbery. Watch now while 10 different folks jump up to start pounding their personal drums ... >>> >> >> stupid discussion and off topic. everybody write code as he/she like, >> or as a team decided if it's not single person work. >> >> only end result matters. > you know real programmers code everything on one line. > sub > f{@s[$x,$y]=@s[($y+=$s[$x])%=@s,$x];$s[$x++]+$s[$y]-@s}@k=pop=~/../g;f$y+=hex$k[$x%@k]for@s=0..255;$x=1;$y=0;$/=\1;print$_^chr$s[f$x%=@s]for<> Now that one, I like! Reminds me of that hoary old "Obfuscated C" competition. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAknSfYsACgkQz62J6PPcoOmhyACfYMAzxOZcmDnfCGr8Xs5QJGYW 85QAoKAz0hH/cPVaqNVNjX75sSfFaPk4 =pdMX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From wojtek at wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl Tue Mar 31 13:35:41 2009 From: wojtek at wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (Wojciech Puchar) Date: Tue Mar 31 13:35:48 2009 Subject: Why?? (prog question) In-Reply-To: <49D27D8B.2070607@telenix.org> References: <20090331025726.GA10888@thought.org> <20090331112122.ae329221.freebsd@edvax.de> <49D202F0.9010104@utoronto.ca> <20090331140845.a1ece3c0.freebsd@edvax.de> <49D24EC8.7030507@gmail.com> <49D27D8B.2070607@telenix.org> Message-ID: >>>>> Tabbing is the worst form of indentation. It is *much* better to use >>>>> spaces consistently. > > The only real sin is not sticking to one style per project. All else is just EXACTLY. but when i write my own program i do it to make it the way best for me. anyway - doing ANYHOW but including proper comments are always best. proper comments are like this: /* this procedure calculates ...blah blah... from data included in tables pointed by X and Y, and stores results into table pointed by argument Z */ someprocedure(const int *X,const int *Y, const int *Z,int length) { someworkhere(); coded_in_any_style_may_be_mess } example of BAD comments: a=b+3; //adds 3 to b and stores result to a From wojtek at wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl Tue Mar 31 13:36:00 2009 From: wojtek at wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (Wojciech Puchar) Date: Tue Mar 31 13:36:07 2009 Subject: Why?? (prog question) In-Reply-To: References: <20090331025726.GA10888@thought.org> <20090331112122.ae329221.freebsd@edvax.de> <49D202F0.9010104@utoronto.ca> <20090331140845.a1ece3c0.freebsd@edvax.de> <49D24EC8.7030507@gmail.com> <49D27D8B.2070607@telenix.org> Message-ID: > > someprocedure(const int *X,const int *Y, const int *Z,int length) { sorry no const near Z ;) > someworkhere(); coded_in_any_style_may_be_mess > } > > > example of BAD comments: > > > a=b+3; //adds 3 to b and stores result to a > > >