From dan at langille.org Sat May 3 19:12:26 2008 From: dan at langille.org (Dan Langille) Date: Sat May 3 19:12:31 2008 Subject: Volunteer needed to create screen saver for BSDCan Message-ID: <66E39C57-074F-43FD-B91D-A06B71037F05@langille.org> I need help. I need someone to create a screen saver to run on my Mac. This screen saver will be used during the opening session of BSDCan. In short; I have about 20 emails I wish to have displayed. I can give you the emails or a PDF of each email, whichever you want. I had tried using just the PDF and the "Pictures Folder" screen saver. This was a good start. But each PDF contains large amounts of whitespace. Each email occupies very little of one PDF page. Therefore, the screen save often shows this whitespace and nothing else. I'm not worried about how you achieve the result, but one suggestion I thought of was : convert the PDF to an image file and crop off the whitespace. Please contact me off-list and I will send you the PDFs/emails. Those with suggestions as to how to do this work are free to suggest, but I do not want to do the work as other parts of BSDCan are higher priority right now. :) Thanks. -- Dan Langille -- http://www.langille.org/ dan@langille.org From jb at caustic.org Sat May 3 20:47:56 2008 From: jb at caustic.org (Johan Beisser) Date: Sat May 3 20:47:58 2008 Subject: Volunteer needed to create screen saver for BSDCan In-Reply-To: <66E39C57-074F-43FD-B91D-A06B71037F05@langille.org> References: <66E39C57-074F-43FD-B91D-A06B71037F05@langille.org> Message-ID: <32393800805031320vae85eccp512b041a18aabca1@mail.gmail.com> Leopard or Tiger? On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Dan Langille wrote: > I need help. I need someone to create a screen saver to run on my Mac. > This screen saver will be used during the opening session of BSDCan. > > In short; I have about 20 emails I wish to have displayed. I can give you > the emails or a PDF of each email, whichever you want. > > I had tried using just the PDF and the "Pictures Folder" screen saver. This > was a good start. But each PDF contains large amounts of whitespace. > Each email occupies very little of one PDF page. Therefore, the screen > save > often shows this whitespace and nothing else. > > I'm not worried about how you achieve the result, but one suggestion I > thought > of was : convert the PDF to an image file and crop off the whitespace. > > Please contact me off-list and I will send you the PDFs/emails. Those with > suggestions as to how to do this work are free to suggest, but I do not > want > to do the work as other parts of BSDCan are higher priority right now. :) > > Thanks. > > -- > Dan Langille -- http://www.langille.org/ > dan@langille.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From dan at langille.org Sat May 3 20:56:43 2008 From: dan at langille.org (Dan Langille) Date: Sat May 3 20:56:47 2008 Subject: Volunteer needed to create screen saver for BSDCan In-Reply-To: <32393800805031320vae85eccp512b041a18aabca1@mail.gmail.com> References: <66E39C57-074F-43FD-B91D-A06B71037F05@langille.org> <32393800805031320vae85eccp512b041a18aabca1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <989FC6E6-F9B1-4777-A4FD-59E54896DB4C@langille.org> On May 3, 2008, at 4:20 PM, Johan Beisser wrote: > Leopard or Tiger? Mac OS X 10.4.11 (8S2167), which I think is Tiger. > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Dan Langille > wrote: >> I need help. I need someone to create a screen saver to run on my >> Mac. >> This screen saver will be used during the opening session of BSDCan. >> >> In short; I have about 20 emails I wish to have displayed. I can >> give you >> the emails or a PDF of each email, whichever you want. >> >> I had tried using just the PDF and the "Pictures Folder" screen >> saver. This >> was a good start. But each PDF contains large amounts of >> whitespace. >> Each email occupies very little of one PDF page. Therefore, the >> screen >> save >> often shows this whitespace and nothing else. >> >> I'm not worried about how you achieve the result, but one >> suggestion I >> thought >> of was : convert the PDF to an image file and crop off the >> whitespace. >> >> Please contact me off-list and I will send you the PDFs/emails. >> Those with >> suggestions as to how to do this work are free to suggest, but I >> do not >> want >> to do the work as other parts of BSDCan are higher priority right >> now. :) >> >> Thanks. >> >> -- >> Dan Langille -- http://www.langille.org/ >> dan@langille.org >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat- >> unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> -- Dan Langille -- http://www.langille.org/ dan@langille.org From jb at caustic.org Sat May 3 21:04:04 2008 From: jb at caustic.org (Johan Beisser) Date: Sat May 3 21:04:07 2008 Subject: Volunteer needed to create screen saver for BSDCan In-Reply-To: <989FC6E6-F9B1-4777-A4FD-59E54896DB4C@langille.org> References: <66E39C57-074F-43FD-B91D-A06B71037F05@langille.org> <32393800805031320vae85eccp512b041a18aabca1@mail.gmail.com> <989FC6E6-F9B1-4777-A4FD-59E54896DB4C@langille.org> Message-ID: <32393800805031404i125f1954kbd51b90d429b83bd@mail.gmail.com> Yeah, that's Tiger. I don't know if leopard quartz composer constructs work in Tiger. It might be worth a shot. You might also just want to play with QuartzComposer.app. On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Dan Langille wrote: > > On May 3, 2008, at 4:20 PM, Johan Beisser wrote: > > > > Leopard or Tiger? > > > > Mac OS X 10.4.11 (8S2167), which I think is Tiger. > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Dan Langille wrote: > > > > > I need help. I need someone to create a screen saver to run on my Mac. > > > This screen saver will be used during the opening session of BSDCan. > > > > > > In short; I have about 20 emails I wish to have displayed. I can give > you > > > the emails or a PDF of each email, whichever you want. > > > > > > I had tried using just the PDF and the "Pictures Folder" screen saver. > This > > > was a good start. But each PDF contains large amounts of whitespace. > > > Each email occupies very little of one PDF page. Therefore, the screen > > > save > > > often shows this whitespace and nothing else. > > > > > > I'm not worried about how you achieve the result, but one suggestion I > > > thought > > > of was : convert the PDF to an image file and crop off the whitespace. > > > > > > Please contact me off-list and I will send you the PDFs/emails. Those > with > > > suggestions as to how to do this work are free to suggest, but I do not > > > want > > > to do the work as other parts of BSDCan are higher priority right now. > :) > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > -- > > > Dan Langille -- http://www.langille.org/ > > > dan@langille.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Dan Langille -- http://www.langille.org/ > dan@langille.org > > > > > From dan at langille.org Sat May 3 21:08:31 2008 From: dan at langille.org (Dan Langille) Date: Sat May 3 21:08:35 2008 Subject: Volunteer needed to create screen saver for BSDCan In-Reply-To: <66E39C57-074F-43FD-B91D-A06B71037F05@langille.org> References: <66E39C57-074F-43FD-B91D-A06B71037F05@langille.org> Message-ID: On May 3, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Dan Langille wrote: > I need help. I need someone to create a screen saver to run on my > Mac. Or, something that will run on KDE... Either solution is fine by me. > This screen saver will be used during the opening session of BSDCan. > > In short; I have about 20 emails I wish to have displayed. I can > give you > the emails or a PDF of each email, whichever you want. > > I had tried using just the PDF and the "Pictures Folder" screen > saver. This > was a good start. But each PDF contains large amounts of whitespace. > Each email occupies very little of one PDF page. Therefore, the > screen save > often shows this whitespace and nothing else. > > I'm not worried about how you achieve the result, but one > suggestion I thought > of was : convert the PDF to an image file and crop off the whitespace. > > Please contact me off-list and I will send you the PDFs/emails. > Those with > suggestions as to how to do this work are free to suggest, but I do > not want > to do the work as other parts of BSDCan are higher priority right > now. :) > > Thanks. > > -- > Dan Langille -- http://www.langille.org/ > dan@langille.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat- > unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Dan Langille -- http://www.langille.org/ dan@langille.org From jcw at highperformance.net Sat May 3 22:01:45 2008 From: jcw at highperformance.net (Jason C. Wells) Date: Sat May 3 22:01:49 2008 Subject: Tired of Hierarchies Message-ID: <481CE0E7.7070900@highperformance.net> When will we be able to access our computerized data on the desktop with out complete dependence on the hierarchy? Has anyone in the FOSS community tackled this problem? What software is used? I am tired of hierarchies. File sytems have hierachies. My bookmarks which could conceivably be non-hierarchical have hierarchies. Mail folders enforce hierarchy where perhaps none is needed. The difficulty I have with hierarchy is that you have to remember the hierarchy. That or the names given to elements in the hierarchy have to be intuitive. The deeper and wider a hierarchy becomes, the more likely it is to be useless. I would like all of the data that I use everywhere to be one click away at all times. But placing all of that data in one central place is also unmanageable. Thus we employ search and filtering. To do that we employ proper metadata, tagging, or brute force searching. In a library I can access pretty much every volume in two steps. Search the index, then go to the location of the volume and pick it from the shelf. Their is a pattern here. The easiest systems that I use all have a "search/index" paradigm attached to them. I keep an image in my mind of where to find data that I use during the course of my employment or hobbies. My employer has incredibly good information systems. I would say that I can access many millions of documents somewhat readily. Unmanaged files in hierarchies quickly become irretrievable. Regards, Jason C. Wells From kayve at sfsu.edu Sat May 3 22:42:54 2008 From: kayve at sfsu.edu (KAYVEN RIESE) Date: Sat May 3 22:43:20 2008 Subject: Tired of Hierarchies In-Reply-To: <481CE0E7.7070900@highperformance.net> References: <481CE0E7.7070900@highperformance.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 May 2008, Jason C. Wells wrote: > > I would like all of the data that I use everywhere to be one click away at > all times. But placing all of that data in one central place is also > unmanageable. Thus we employ search and filtering. To do that we employ > proper metadata, tagging, or brute force searching. dood. binary search trees define hierarchical data and allow the optimized O(NlogN) sort and O(logN) search. > I keep an image in my mind of where to find data that I use during the course > of my employment or hobbies. My employer has incredibly good information > systems. I would say that I can access many millions of documents somewhat > readily. Unmanaged files in hierarchies quickly become irretrievable. because of O(logN) search, one million items can be searched in log(base breadth)(1 million) time instead of just 1 million time. seriously. > > Regards, > Jason C. Wells > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > *----------------------------------------------------------* Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics) (415) 902 5513 cellular http://kayve.net Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org *----------------------------------------------------------* From dan at langille.org Sat May 3 23:48:53 2008 From: dan at langille.org (Dan Langille) Date: Sat May 3 23:48:57 2008 Subject: Volunteer needed to create screen saver for BSDCan In-Reply-To: <32393800805031404i125f1954kbd51b90d429b83bd@mail.gmail.com> References: <66E39C57-074F-43FD-B91D-A06B71037F05@langille.org> <32393800805031320vae85eccp512b041a18aabca1@mail.gmail.com> <989FC6E6-F9B1-4777-A4FD-59E54896DB4C@langille.org> <32393800805031404i125f1954kbd51b90d429b83bd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6A05A2CF-AFBB-4931-9B5E-607DBCB93F1B@langille.org> On May 3, 2008, at 5:04 PM, Johan Beisser wrote: > Yeah, that's Tiger. > > I don't know if leopard quartz composer constructs work in Tiger. It > might be worth a shot. > > You might also just want to play with QuartzComposer.app. Thanks. But not me... I have other stuff to do that only I can do. :) Hence my call for a volunteer to do this. > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Dan Langille wrote: >> >> On May 3, 2008, at 4:20 PM, Johan Beisser wrote: >> >> >>> Leopard or Tiger? >>> >> >> Mac OS X 10.4.11 (8S2167), which I think is Tiger. >> >> >> >> >>> >>> On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Dan Langille >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I need help. I need someone to create a screen saver to run on >>>> my Mac. >>>> This screen saver will be used during the opening session of >>>> BSDCan. >>>> >>>> In short; I have about 20 emails I wish to have displayed. I >>>> can give >> you >>>> the emails or a PDF of each email, whichever you want. >>>> >>>> I had tried using just the PDF and the "Pictures Folder" screen >>>> saver. >> This >>>> was a good start. But each PDF contains large amounts of >>>> whitespace. >>>> Each email occupies very little of one PDF page. Therefore, >>>> the screen >>>> save >>>> often shows this whitespace and nothing else. >>>> >>>> I'm not worried about how you achieve the result, but one >>>> suggestion I >>>> thought >>>> of was : convert the PDF to an image file and crop off the >>>> whitespace. >>>> >>>> Please contact me off-list and I will send you the PDFs/ >>>> emails. Those >> with >>>> suggestions as to how to do this work are free to suggest, but >>>> I do not >>>> want >>>> to do the work as other parts of BSDCan are higher priority >>>> right now. >> :) >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dan Langille -- http://www.langille.org/ >>>> dan@langille.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list >>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat >>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat- >>>> unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> Dan Langille -- http://www.langille.org/ >> dan@langille.org >> >> >> >> >> -- Dan Langille -- http://www.langille.org/ dan@langille.org From rsidd at online.fr Sun May 4 10:51:02 2008 From: rsidd at online.fr (Rahul Siddharthan) Date: Sun May 4 10:51:31 2008 Subject: Tired of Hierarchies In-Reply-To: <481CE0E7.7070900@highperformance.net> References: <481CE0E7.7070900@highperformance.net> Message-ID: <6a506d980805040324k4b9cd9f8y2b75fd47781dbdfa@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 3:32 AM, Jason C. Wells wrote: > When will we be able to access our computerized data on the desktop with out > complete dependence on the hierarchy? Has anyone in the FOSS community > tackled this problem? What software is used? > > I am tired of hierarchies. [snip] > In a library I can access pretty much every volume in two steps. Search > the index, then go to the location of the volume and pick it from the shelf. > Their is a pattern here. The easiest systems that I use all have a > "search/index" paradigm attached to them. The indexing system (Dewey or whatever) is a hierarchy, though it may not be obvious when the books are arrayed on a library shelf. If you want to index your files (metadata, or informative filenames, or whatever) and dump them all in one directory, go ahead. Thinking about a suitable indexing system is an exercise for the reader. (A non-trivial exercise. Library indexing systems are still a topic of research; I imagine the complexity of indexing millions of items of entirely disparate kinds of data, such as a typical computer contains, would be phenomenal.) Rahul From rs at midearth.co.uk Sun May 4 12:30:43 2008 From: rs at midearth.co.uk (Roopinder Singh) Date: Sun May 4 12:30:46 2008 Subject: Tired of Hierarchies In-Reply-To: <6a506d980805040324k4b9cd9f8y2b75fd47781dbdfa@mail.gmail.com> References: <481CE0E7.7070900@highperformance.net> <6a506d980805040324k4b9cd9f8y2b75fd47781dbdfa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <54806.78.86.146.100.1209903304.squirrel@secure.duzle.com> On Sun, May 4, 2008 11:24 am, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > If you want to index your files (metadata, or informative filenames, or > whatever) and dump them all in one directory, go ahead. Thinking about > a suitable indexing system is an exercise for the reader. (A non-trivial > exercise. Library indexing systems are still a topic of research; I > imagine > the complexity of indexing millions of items of entirely disparate kinds > of > data, such as a typical computer contains, would be phenomenal.) Doesn't Beagle do this exact thing ? Or, have I got it completely wrong ? http://beagle-project.org/Main_Page Roopinder Singh rs@midearth.co.uk From infofarmer at FreeBSD.org Sun May 4 12:53:23 2008 From: infofarmer at FreeBSD.org (Andrew Pantyukhin) Date: Sun May 4 12:53:27 2008 Subject: Tired of Hierarchies In-Reply-To: <481CE0E7.7070900@highperformance.net> References: <481CE0E7.7070900@highperformance.net> Message-ID: <20080504123719.GJ92161@amilo.cenkes.org> On Sat, May 03, 2008 at 03:02:15PM -0700, Jason C. Wells wrote: > When will we be able to access our computerized data on the > desktop with out complete dependence on the hierarchy? Has > anyone in the FOSS community tackled this problem? What > software is used? You know the language is hierarchical, don't you? w->(wh->when,what),will,we;b->be;a->able,access;... I understand your feelings, but like with so many other technical problems, the roots of this one grow out of a user's head. That's where it should be fixed, IMHO. From rsidd at online.fr Sun May 4 13:49:28 2008 From: rsidd at online.fr (Rahul Siddharthan) Date: Sun May 4 13:49:31 2008 Subject: Tired of Hierarchies In-Reply-To: <54806.78.86.146.100.1209903304.squirrel@secure.duzle.com> References: <481CE0E7.7070900@highperformance.net> <6a506d980805040324k4b9cd9f8y2b75fd47781dbdfa@mail.gmail.com> <54806.78.86.146.100.1209903304.squirrel@secure.duzle.com> Message-ID: <6a506d980805040649k4d4e8174nb74256776db592c3@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 5:45 PM, Roopinder Singh wrote: > On Sun, May 4, 2008 11:24 am, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > If you want to index your files (metadata, or informative filenames, or > > whatever) and dump them all in one directory, go ahead. Thinking about > > a suitable indexing system is an exercise for the reader. (A non-trivial > > exercise. Library indexing systems are still a topic of research; I imagine > > the complexity of indexing millions of items of entirely disparate kinds of > > data, such as a typical computer contains, would be phenomenal.) > > Doesn't Beagle do this exact thing ? Or, have I got it completely wrong ? > > http://beagle-project.org/Main_Page Well, Beagle tries to spare you the trouble of doing metadata by looking inside the files... and it handles directory trees fine. If you want to do what Jason suggests -- dump everything in a single directory (like a single library room) and depend on metadata and indexing to find what you want, Beagle would be overkill... By the way, I don't think the indexed public library analogy is correct. Searching your computer would be like searching your individual home library, which, if it has thousands of books, can be a non-trivial problem unless you have been extremely systematic... Rahul From thierry at FreeBSD.org Sun May 4 14:01:37 2008 From: thierry at FreeBSD.org (Thierry Thomas) Date: Sun May 4 14:01:42 2008 Subject: Tired of Hierarchies In-Reply-To: <6a506d980805040649k4d4e8174nb74256776db592c3@mail.gmail.com> References: <481CE0E7.7070900@highperformance.net> <6a506d980805040324k4b9cd9f8y2b75fd47781dbdfa@mail.gmail.com> <54806.78.86.146.100.1209903304.squirrel@secure.duzle.com> <6a506d980805040649k4d4e8174nb74256776db592c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080504140131.GE57012@graf.pompo.net> Le Dim 4 mai 08 ? 15:49:26 +0200, Rahul Siddharthan ?crivait?: > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 5:45 PM, Roopinder Singh wrote: > > On Sun, May 4, 2008 11:24 am, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > > If you want to index your files (metadata, or informative filenames, or > > > whatever) and dump them all in one directory, go ahead. Thinking about > > > a suitable indexing system is an exercise for the reader. (A non-trivial > > > exercise. Library indexing systems are still a topic of research; I imagine > > > the complexity of indexing millions of items of entirely disparate kinds of > > > data, such as a typical computer contains, would be phenomenal.) > > > > Doesn't Beagle do this exact thing ? Or, have I got it completely wrong ? > > > > http://beagle-project.org/Main_Page > > Well, Beagle tries to spare you the trouble of doing metadata by looking inside > the files... and it handles directory trees fine. If you want to do what Jason > suggests -- dump everything in a single directory (like a single library room) > and depend on metadata and indexing to find what you want, Beagle would be > overkill... Maybe not Beagle, but Eaglemode, without B? -- Th. Thomas. From aryeh.friedman at gmail.com Mon May 5 00:42:45 2008 From: aryeh.friedman at gmail.com (Aryeh M. Friedman) Date: Mon May 5 00:43:01 2008 Subject: Tired of Hierarchies In-Reply-To: <20080504123719.GJ92161@amilo.cenkes.org> References: <481CE0E7.7070900@highperformance.net> <20080504123719.GJ92161@amilo.cenkes.org> Message-ID: <481E57FC.9030804@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Andrew Pantyukhin wrote: | On Sat, May 03, 2008 at 03:02:15PM -0700, Jason C. Wells wrote: |> When will we be able to access our computerized data on the |> desktop with out complete dependence on the hierarchy? Has |> anyone in the FOSS community tackled this problem? What |> software is used? | | You know the language is hierarchical, don't you? | | w->(wh->when,what),will,we;b->be;a->able,access;... | | I understand your feelings, but like with so many other technical | problems, the roots of this one grow out of a user's head. | That's where it should be fixed, IMHO. The last sentence is just insulting. The reason being is while yes there are somethings that a natural hieractical it does not mean that there are some other things that should not be. Yes I admit that (at least traditionally) information is naturally hieractical in that you can split it into categories, with the two most important ones in the pre-computer world being library cataloging systems and specializing knowledge by profession. That being said there is a point at which the catagories become so specialized that to even understand what they are requires you to be an expert in the field. For example the difference between algorithms and data structures is only understandable to a programmer (yes non-programmers can get a idea but not all the implications). When applied to hiearictical files systems for example unless you really understand the ins and outs of the unix philosophy it makes very little sense why /bin, /usr/bin and /usr/local/bin are separate dirs (after using unix for 20+ years I still don't understand the diff between /bin and /usr/bin). Requiring stuff be kept in some preset heirachy has among other problems the following problems that come to mind for me: ~ 1. It is hard to make connections between different pieces of knowledge because the hierarchy forces you to think in it's terms not more natural terms ~ 2. Successful use requires you to get inside the head of the person(s) who created the hierarchy and if you think differently then they do oh well ~ 3. Unless your an expert in the system it is often harder to find things then if the system was not used ~ 4. Stuff can easily get lost because it gets mis-cataloged ~ 5. If the system didn't plan for some major catagory it will be crunched into a sub catagory(s) that do not make very much sense for example under Library of Congress computer science is under math (QA76.XXXX) but electronics is under TK510[456].XXXX ~ 6. If viewing the information under a different heiarchical system makes it easier to understand for some applications then very complicated mappings need to be made for example there are whole reference books that do nothing but show side by side the Library of Congress and Duey Decimal call numbers side by side so a reference librarian can use either one when doing interlibrary loan A very good example all the items above is the current ports system. In short the more finally cut we make our categories the harder it is guess/generate the "search key" (either a real key or metaphorically a mental picture of one). For all the above reasons I would argue for flatter hieracies with metahierachies overlayed for different purposes then one typically sees today. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkgeV/sACgkQk8GFzCrQm4CA6QCgxpfNJBsM0N1FKzoJvpsccLi5 1oIAn3coeb1O+uc/0vAJO3iSxAJ0klTD =T1A9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jcw at highperformance.net Mon May 5 01:23:56 2008 From: jcw at highperformance.net (Jason C. Wells) Date: Mon May 5 01:24:00 2008 Subject: Tired of Hierarchies In-Reply-To: <481E57FC.9030804@gmail.com> References: <481CE0E7.7070900@highperformance.net> <20080504123719.GJ92161@amilo.cenkes.org> <481E57FC.9030804@gmail.com> Message-ID: <481E61CB.5060504@highperformance.net> Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > ~ 5. If the system didn't plan for some major catagory it will be > crunched into a sub catagory(s) that do not make very much sense for > example under Library of Congress computer science is under math > (QA76.XXXX) but electronics is under TK510[456].XXXX In this example the call number performs a dual function of identifier and grouping. The ability to lookup the address in a computerized card catalog database mostly negates the weakness of the poor grouping. Because a computer can manage location and grouping in some other fashion, all we really need is a unique identifier. > A very good example all the items above is the current ports system. > In short the more finally cut we make our categories the harder it is > guess/generate the "search key" (either a real key or metaphorically a > mental picture of one). For all the above reasons I would argue for > flatter hieracies with metahierachies overlayed for different purposes > then one typically sees today. The idea of an overlay I think is a very powerful one. The file system hierarchy could simply be one overlay that might be applied by a hypothetical storage manager. An author might use an author's overlay suitable to the author's task. All user's would have to be careful to divorce that idea of "what" they are looking at from "where" they found it. There would multiple disjoint locations in an overlay system that all refer to precisely the same resource. Later, Jason From aryeh.friedman at gmail.com Mon May 5 02:20:35 2008 From: aryeh.friedman at gmail.com (Aryeh M. Friedman) Date: Mon May 5 02:20:39 2008 Subject: Tired of Hierarchies In-Reply-To: <481E61CB.5060504@highperformance.net> References: <481CE0E7.7070900@highperformance.net> <20080504123719.GJ92161@amilo.cenkes.org> <481E57FC.9030804@gmail.com> <481E61CB.5060504@highperformance.net> Message-ID: <481E6EE6.4090404@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jason C. Wells wrote: | Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: | |> ~ 5. If the system didn't plan for some major catagory it will be crunched into a sub catagory(s) that do not make very much sense for example under Library of Congress computer science is under math (QA76.XXXX) but electronics is under TK510[456].XXXX | | In this example the call number performs a dual function of identifier and grouping. The ability to lookup the address in a computerized card catalog database mostly negates the weakness of the poor grouping. Because a computer can manage location and grouping in some other fashion, all we really need is a unique identifier. | |> A very good example all the items above is the current ports system. In short the more finally cut we make our categories the harder it is guess/generate the "search key" (either a real key or metaphorically a mental picture of one). For all the above reasons I would argue for flatter hieracies with metahierachies overlayed for different purposes then one typically sees today. | | The idea of an overlay I think is a very powerful one. The file system hierarchy could simply be one overlay that might be applied by a hypothetical storage manager. An author might use an author's overlay suitable to the author's task. All user's would have to be careful to divorce that idea of "what" they are looking at from "where" they found it. There would multiple disjoint locations in an overlay system that all refer to precisely the same resource. | One issue you would need to consider in such a system is how to ensure that the "address" in one hierachy doesn't interfere with the address in an other hierachyy (the two are allowed to vary independantly). Two examples pop to mind immediatly URL's and Email addresses. Specifically both refer to a resource that theortically has nothing to do with it's physical location but only on it's conceptual location. For example I should give a damn what machine someone uses to receive mail on in order to send them mail, namely how many times I switch ISP's my address would stay "aryeh.m.friedman" (for example) [notice no @dns]. Back in the late 90's I offered a service like this http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.atless.net but sadly not enough demand to keep it going. The URL issue is the same. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkgebuYACgkQk8GFzCrQm4CgFQCfUBDce8iqlJnGcRban3OIaWLW l5AAoNI9KVWNSnQ+9DJA/aKd/zPGyNar =MnXY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From carloshpf at oi.com.br Tue May 6 03:02:19 2008 From: carloshpf at oi.com.br (Carlos Porto Filho) Date: Tue May 6 03:02:23 2008 Subject: file system Message-ID: <481FC49E.2040106@oi.com.br> What file system do you use for a data partition (music, video..) to use between windows and freebsd in a dual boot system? is there something better than fat32? tia From sigma.zx at gmail.com Tue May 6 03:31:36 2008 From: sigma.zx at gmail.com (Sean G. McLaughlin) Date: Tue May 6 03:32:01 2008 Subject: file system In-Reply-To: <481FC49E.2040106@oi.com.br> References: <481FC49E.2040106@oi.com.br> Message-ID: <200805052010.04210.sigma.zx@gmail.com> On Monday 05 May 2008 07:38:22 pm Carlos Porto Filho wrote: > What file system do you use for a data partition (music, video..) to > use between windows and freebsd in a dual boot system? is there > something better than fat32? You can "roll the dice" on NTFS-3G, or try to get Windows to read FreeBSD's filesystems (there are drivers to do this, supposedly). From freebsd-chat-local at be-well.ilk.org Tue May 6 11:59:41 2008 From: freebsd-chat-local at be-well.ilk.org (Lowell Gilbert) Date: Tue May 6 11:59:44 2008 Subject: file system In-Reply-To: <481FC49E.2040106@oi.com.br> (Carlos Porto Filho's message of "Mon\, 05 May 2008 23\:38\:22 -0300") References: <481FC49E.2040106@oi.com.br> Message-ID: <44zlr38xno.fsf@Lowell-Desk.lan> Carlos Porto Filho writes: > What file system do you use for a data partition (music, video..) to > use between windows and freebsd in a dual boot system? is there > something better than fat32? To be honest, FAT isn't that bad a filesystem for relatively large files which change relatively rarely. I find that this is the case for my media files. However, I don't use FAT, because I'm not sharing with another OS. ;-) From angus at fairhaven.za.net Tue May 6 14:38:09 2008 From: angus at fairhaven.za.net (Angus Robinson) Date: Tue May 6 14:38:15 2008 Subject: file system In-Reply-To: <481FC49E.2040106@oi.com.br> References: <481FC49E.2040106@oi.com.br> Message-ID: <4820676C.4030403@fairhaven.za.net> Carlos Porto Filho wrote: > What file system do you use for a data partition (music, video..) to > use between windows and freebsd in a dual boot system? is there > something better than fat32? > tia > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" I did not have a problem with ntfs and freebsd, i was able to write and read from it. From reed at reedmedia.net Tue May 6 21:54:17 2008 From: reed at reedmedia.net (Jeremy C. Reed) Date: Tue May 6 21:54:22 2008 Subject: where is a lightweight, simple word processor? Message-ID: I have been looking for a simple word processor that supports formatted text, different fonts and maybe bullet lists. And is close to WYSIWYG. I don't care about format it can save or import as long as I can find an intermediate tool to do my conversions. I don't need tables. But if it can plug into another speller that would be nice but not required. Also images not required, but okay. Support for multiple languages would be nice but required right now. I will accept losing formatting attributes when importing. Page breaks would be nice but not required. (I often receive and send press releases and other documents that are in different formats. I don't like losing all the formatting when I send back an edited document. I don't mind losing hidden metadata.) I found gwp but old 1999 code uses old gnome-libs. I found 1998 maxwell, but haven't figured out build yet on modern system. siag's pw has crashed a few times on me. And I don't know if maintained. Ted has worked for me sometimes and failed for me sometimes. I don't know if still maintained. abiword is too big. kword is too big. oowriter is too big. LyX is too big. I don't want to require KDE libraries, libgnome, teTeX, or other big dependencies. I don't need hundreds of features just to be able to edit and provide simple document that has some formatted text. I don't want to manually type in RTF, XML, or OpenDocument formats. Maybe there is some GTK widget that provides a rich formatting editor? Maybe some rich format editor can be stripped out of some email client or HTML editor to be a standalone simple light word processor? From murray at stokely.org Tue May 6 23:37:29 2008 From: murray at stokely.org (Murray Stokely) Date: Tue May 6 23:37:32 2008 Subject: where is a lightweight, simple word processor? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2a7894eb0805061609r327a47a6p19d0797fc42dfcb0@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > I have been looking for a simple word processor that supports formatted > text, different fonts and maybe bullet lists. And is close to WYSIWYG. I > don't care about format it can save or import as long as I can find an > intermediate tool to do my conversions. I don't need tables. But if it can > plug into another speller that would be nice but not required. Also images > not required, but okay. Support for multiple languages would be nice but > required right now. I will accept losing formatting attributes when > importing. Page breaks would be nice but not required. ... > Maybe some rich format editor can be stripped out of some email client or > HTML editor to be a standalone simple light word processor? Google Docs meets the basic requirements you listed here, but I'm guessing you intentionally excluded it for other reasons? You can import HTML files and plain text, Microsoft Word (.doc), Rich Text (.rtf), OpenDocument Text (.odt), StarOffice (.sxw), Microsoft PowerPoint (.ppt, .pps), Comma Separated Value (.csv), Microsoft Excel (.xls) files, and OpenDocument Spreadsheet (.ods). Export to the above formats or PDF. Multiple people can edit the documents simultaneously and chat about the changes in built in discussion pane, etc. Include dynamic variables from the web in your documents such as stock prices and such, etc, etc.. - Murray From sequethin at gmail.com Tue May 6 23:41:45 2008 From: sequethin at gmail.com (Michael Hernandez) Date: Tue May 6 23:41:52 2008 Subject: where is a lightweight, simple word processor? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On May 6, 2008, at 5:31 PM, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > I have been looking for a simple word processor that supports > formatted > text, different fonts and maybe bullet lists. And is close to > WYSIWYG. I > don't care about format it can save or import as long as I can find an > intermediate tool to do my conversions. I don't need tables. But if > it can > plug into another speller that would be nice but not required. Also > images > not required, but okay. Support for multiple languages would be nice > but > required right now. I will accept losing formatting attributes when > importing. Page breaks would be nice but not required. > > (I often receive and send press releases and other documents that > are in > different formats. I don't like losing all the formatting when I > send back > an edited document. I don't mind losing hidden metadata.) > > I found gwp but old 1999 code uses old gnome-libs. > > I found 1998 maxwell, but haven't figured out build yet on modern > system. > > siag's pw has crashed a few times on me. And I don't know if > maintained. > > Ted has worked for me sometimes and failed for me sometimes. I don't > know > if still maintained. > > abiword is too big. kword is too big. oowriter is too big. LyX is > too big. > I don't want to require KDE libraries, libgnome, teTeX, or other big > dependencies. I don't need hundreds of features just to be able to > edit > and provide simple document that has some formatted text. I don't > want to > manually type in RTF, XML, or OpenDocument formats. > > Maybe there is some GTK widget that provides a rich formatting editor? > > Maybe some rich format editor can be stripped out of some email > client or > HTML editor to be a standalone simple light word processor? > If you were using OS X I'd suggest Bean... Not sure what to tell you! --Mike H From matt at ixsystems.com Wed May 7 00:15:22 2008 From: matt at ixsystems.com (Matt Olander) Date: Wed May 7 00:15:27 2008 Subject: where is a lightweight, simple word processor? In-Reply-To: <2a7894eb0805061609r327a47a6p19d0797fc42dfcb0@mail.gmail.com> References: <2a7894eb0805061609r327a47a6p19d0797fc42dfcb0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200805061642.38163.matt@ixsystems.com> On Tuesday 06 May 2008 4:09 pm, Murray Stokely wrote: > On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > > I have been looking for a simple word processor that supports formatted > > text, different fonts and maybe bullet lists. And is close to WYSIWYG. I > > don't care about format it can save or import as long as I can find an > > intermediate tool to do my conversions. I don't need tables. But if it > > can plug into another speller that would be nice but not required. Also > > images not required, but okay. Support for multiple languages would be > > nice but required right now. I will accept losing formatting attributes > > when importing. Page breaks would be nice but not required. > > ... > > > Maybe some rich format editor can be stripped out of some email client > > or HTML editor to be a standalone simple light word processor? > > Google Docs meets the basic requirements you listed here, but I'm > guessing you intentionally excluded it for other reasons? You can > import HTML files and plain text, Microsoft Word (.doc), Rich Text > (.rtf), OpenDocument Text (.odt), StarOffice (.sxw), Microsoft > PowerPoint (.ppt, .pps), Comma Separated Value (.csv), Microsoft Excel > (.xls) files, and OpenDocument Spreadsheet (.ods). Export to the > above formats or PDF. Multiple people can edit the documents > simultaneously and chat about the changes in built in discussion pane, > etc. Include dynamic variables from the web in your documents such as > stock prices and such, etc, etc.. We just did a collaborative project using Google Docs while I was in Europe. It worked great for our purposes. I, for one, welcome our Google overlords! :-P -matt From rsidd at online.fr Wed May 7 09:04:21 2008 From: rsidd at online.fr (Rahul Siddharthan) Date: Wed May 7 09:04:25 2008 Subject: where is a lightweight, simple word processor? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6a506d980805070136m52130546q27b396a3b83c3f37@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 3:01 AM, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > I have been looking for a simple word processor that supports formatted > text, different fonts and maybe bullet lists. And is close to WYSIWYG. I haven't used it very much but this looked promising: http://www.texmacs.org/ (Despite its name, it doesn't depend on TeX.) Rahul From carpetsmoker at rwxrwxrwx.net Wed May 7 09:36:09 2008 From: carpetsmoker at rwxrwxrwx.net (Martin Tournoij) Date: Wed May 7 09:36:12 2008 Subject: where is a lightweight, simple word processor? In-Reply-To: <6a506d980805070136m52130546q27b396a3b83c3f37@mail.gmail.com> References: <6a506d980805070136m52130546q27b396a3b83c3f37@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080507092102.GA49968@rwxrwxrwx.net> On Wed, May 07, 2008 at 02:06:33PM +0530, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 3:01 AM, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > > I have been looking for a simple word processor that supports formatted > > text, different fonts and maybe bullet lists. And is close to WYSIWYG. > > I haven't used it very much but this looked promising: > http://www.texmacs.org/ > (Despite its name, it doesn't depend on TeX.) Hm? [/ports/editors/texmacs]# grep _DEPENDS Makefile BUILD_DEPENDS= tex:${PORTSDIR}/print/teTeX-base LIB_DEPENDS= guile.18:${PORTSDIR}/lang/guile \ RUN_DEPENDS= tex:${PORTSDIR}/print/teTeX-base -- Martin Tournoij carpetsmoker@xs4all.nl http://www.daemonforums.org Forgive your enemies, but don't forget their names. -- John F. Kennedy From ravna at nerdshack.com Wed May 7 11:25:01 2008 From: ravna at nerdshack.com (Ravna) Date: Wed May 7 11:25:06 2008 Subject: file system In-Reply-To: <200805052010.04210.sigma.zx@gmail.com> References: <481FC49E.2040106@oi.com.br> <200805052010.04210.sigma.zx@gmail.com> Message-ID: <48219186.5060502@nerdshack.com> >> What file system do you use for a data partition (music, video..) to >> use between windows and freebsd in a dual boot system? is there >> something better ? I'm using a ext3 partition. It supports files over 2GB, and can be read/written from both OSes. The IFS driver for ext on windows is very stable. From olli at lurza.secnetix.de Wed May 7 13:34:29 2008 From: olli at lurza.secnetix.de (Oliver Fromme) Date: Wed May 7 13:34:32 2008 Subject: file system In-Reply-To: <481FC49E.2040106@oi.com.br> Message-ID: <200805071334.m47DYPVN058822@lurza.secnetix.de> Carlos Porto Filho wrote: > What file system do you use for a data partition (music, video..) > to use between windows and freebsd in a dual boot system? Well, I use a file server (FreeBSD) with NFS + Samba, so it can be accessed from both Windows and FreeBSD machines. Samba works surprisingly well, I even dare to say it works better than NFS. > is there something better than fat32? That question seems to imply that fat32 is not sufficient for what you need. So what exactly do you need that fat32 does not support? Usually, for multimedia files, fat32 works just fine. it doesn't support ownership, permissions and a few other things, but that doesn't matter much for multimedia files on your private home machine. If you do need to restrict access to some files, one solution is to put those on a separate fat32 FS and mount it with proper options (see mount_msdosfs(8): -u, -g, -m, -M) so only certain users or groups can access it. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch?ftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M?n- chen, HRB 125758, Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "What is this talk of 'release'? We do not make software 'releases'. Our software 'escapes', leaving a bloody trail of designers and quality assurance people in its wake." From carlsonmark at gmail.com Wed May 7 22:41:06 2008 From: carlsonmark at gmail.com (Mark Carlson) Date: Wed May 7 22:41:10 2008 Subject: file system In-Reply-To: <200805052010.04210.sigma.zx@gmail.com> References: <481FC49E.2040106@oi.com.br> <200805052010.04210.sigma.zx@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/5/08, Sean G. McLaughlin wrote: > On Monday 05 May 2008 07:38:22 pm Carlos Porto Filho wrote: > > What file system do you use for a data partition (music, video..) to > > use between windows and freebsd in a dual boot system? is there > > something better than fat32? > > > You can "roll the dice" on NTFS-3G, or try to get Windows to read > FreeBSD's filesystems (there are drivers to do this, supposedly). I've used ffsdrv on XP before with excellent results. It even worked on a half-broken drive with partitions that had corrupt or non-readable superblocks. http://ffsdrv.sourceforge.net/ -Mark C. From davids at webmaster.com Sat May 10 00:00:49 2008 From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz) Date: Sat May 10 00:00:53 2008 Subject: Building 32-bit binaries on 64-bit 6.3 Message-ID: I've been looking for a way to build 32-bit x86 binaries on an AMD64 install of FreeBSD 6.3 STABLE. It has been an exercise in frustration with every technique hitting some other obstacle. Is there some easy way to do this that I'm overlooking? It's annoying that passing the default install of GCC a '-m32' causes it to sort of work. Trying to build a cross-compiler from the ports fails too. Why doesn't '-m32' just work? The libraries must already be there since I can run 32-bit binaries. Is it just missing/broken headers? http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=115784&cat= "We do not support general i386 binary building on freebsd/amd64." Why? As a more general question, shouldn't it be easy to build binaries for any supported FreeBSD platform on any other supported platform? DS From olli at lurza.secnetix.de Sat May 10 11:50:37 2008 From: olli at lurza.secnetix.de (Oliver Fromme) Date: Sat May 10 11:50:39 2008 Subject: Building 32-bit binaries on 64-bit 6.3 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200805101150.m4ABoWtA018343@lurza.secnetix.de> David Schwartz wrote: > I've been looking for a way to build 32-bit x86 binaries on an AMD64 > install of FreeBSD 6.3 STABLE. Doing it within a 32bit chroot (or jail) is probably the easiest way. At least it was for me. I simply took a 32bit install from an FTP mirror, installed it into /usr/i386, mounted devfs inside it (and mdfs on tmp), then chrooted into it, and everything worked as expected. Of course, if you have a 32bit world on some other box, you can simply make a copy of it for your chroot. Of course, be sure that your amd64 kernel contains the line "options COMPAT_IA32" (it's in GENERIC by default), so the i386 binary compatibility is enabled. You also have to make a link inside the chroot's /libexec: # cd libexec # ln ld-elf.so.1 ld-elf32.so.1 And finally, certain Makefiles (including our buildworld target) will be confused and think that you're attempting to cross-compile. In order to trick them into assuming that you're running on a 32bit kernel, you have to set these environment variables before: # export UNAME_m=i386 # export UNAME_p=i386 If you're using csh or tcsh, use this syntax instead: % setenv UNAME_m i386 % setenv UNAME_p i386 With the above settings, I was able to perform a full buildworld + installworld within a 32bit chroot on a 64bit host. The result was still a 32bit world, of course. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch?ftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M?n- chen, HRB 125758, Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "If Java had true garbage collection, most programs would delete themselves upon execution." -- Robert Sewell From rs at midearth.co.uk Sun May 11 03:27:14 2008 From: rs at midearth.co.uk (Roopinder Singh) Date: Sun May 11 03:27:17 2008 Subject: file system In-Reply-To: <200805071334.m47DYPVN058822@lurza.secnetix.de> References: <200805071334.m47DYPVN058822@lurza.secnetix.de> Message-ID: <1284.147.114.226.182.1210170163.squirrel@secure.duzle.com> On Wed, May 7, 2008 2:34 pm, Oliver Fromme wrote: > Usually, for multimedia files, fat32 works just fine. > it doesn't support ownership, permissions and a few other > things, but that doesn't matter much for multimedia files > on your private home machine. Ahh.. yes.. but the real question is what type of (ahem..) "multimedia" (ahem..) files you have, and whether you would want other family members to know about it :) Roopinder Singh rs@midearth.co.uk From Peter.Ross at bogen.in-berlin.de Sun May 11 06:50:04 2008 From: Peter.Ross at bogen.in-berlin.de (Peter Ross) Date: Sun May 11 06:50:09 2008 Subject: file system In-Reply-To: <1284.147.114.226.182.1210170163.squirrel@secure.duzle.com> References: <200805071334.m47DYPVN058822@lurza.secnetix.de> <1284.147.114.226.182.1210170163.squirrel@secure.duzle.com> Message-ID: <20080511134245.L1352@klein.bigpond.com> On Wed, 7 May 2008, Roopinder Singh wrote: > Ahh.. yes.. but the real question is what type of (ahem..) "multimedia" > (ahem..) files you have, and whether you would want other family members > to know about it :) The only real protection for a machine that is physically accessible by people you do not trust (?) is encryption. I am not aware of a (software) encryption transparent for the OS or portable between Windows and FreeBSD. The suggested fileserver may be better then. Regards Peter From mitchell at wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk Sun May 11 13:17:39 2008 From: mitchell at wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk (Frank Mitchell) Date: Sun May 11 13:17:43 2008 Subject: Primes With Complex Factors Message-ID: <200805111353.34551.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> When Gauss discovered Complex Numbers he found he could use them to factorise Primes. For instance 2 can be factorised as (1+i)*(1-i). Only half the Primes can be factorised like this, but there are Hypercomplex Numbers, like Quaternions, which can be used to carry the process further. Recently this topic seems to have attracted further research, and it seems to me this could be connected with Cryptography and its use of enormous Primes. Apparently the People's Republic of China are getting expert at cracking apparently uncrackable ciphers. Does anybody know more about this? Faictz Ce Que Vouldras: Frank Mitchell From jhary at unsane.co.uk Sun May 11 19:46:38 2008 From: jhary at unsane.co.uk (Vince Hoffman) Date: Sun May 11 19:46:40 2008 Subject: file system In-Reply-To: <20080511134245.L1352@klein.bigpond.com> References: <200805071334.m47DYPVN058822@lurza.secnetix.de> <1284.147.114.226.182.1210170163.squirrel@secure.duzle.com> <20080511134245.L1352@klein.bigpond.com> Message-ID: <48274D1B.6060900@unsane.co.uk> Peter Ross wrote: > On Wed, 7 May 2008, Roopinder Singh wrote: > >> Ahh.. yes.. but the real question is what type of (ahem..) "multimedia" >> (ahem..) files you have, and whether you would want other family members >> to know about it :) > > The only real protection for a machine that is physically accessible by > people you do not trust (?) is encryption. > > I am not aware of a (software) encryption transparent for the OS or > portable between Windows and FreeBSD. > Truecrypt is a work in progress by the look of it. http://www.nabble.com/TrueCrypt-5.0-td15394497.html > The suggested fileserver may be better then. > > Regards > Peter > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From olli at lurza.secnetix.de Tue May 13 11:52:53 2008 From: olli at lurza.secnetix.de (Oliver Fromme) Date: Tue May 13 11:52:55 2008 Subject: file system In-Reply-To: <1284.147.114.226.182.1210170163.squirrel@secure.duzle.com> Message-ID: <200805131152.m4DBqnYh070459@lurza.secnetix.de> Roopinder Singh wrote: > On Wed, May 7, 2008 2:34 pm, Oliver Fromme wrote: > > Usually, for multimedia files, fat32 works just fine. > > it doesn't support ownership, permissions and a few other > > things, but that doesn't matter much for multimedia files > > on your private home machine. > > Ahh.. yes.. but the real question is what type of (ahem..) "multimedia" > (ahem..) files you have, and whether you would want other family members > to know about it :) I suggested a possible solution for that in the second half of the paragraph, which you chose not to quote. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch?ftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M?n- chen, HRB 125758, Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "I have stopped reading Stephen King novels. Now I just read C code instead." -- Richard A. O'Keefe From mitchell at wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk Tue May 13 21:02:36 2008 From: mitchell at wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk (Frank Mitchell) Date: Tue May 13 21:02:40 2008 Subject: Complex Factors Of Primes In-Reply-To: <200805111353.34551.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> References: <200805111353.34551.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> Message-ID: <200805132200.32035.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> I'm surprised at you fellas: The whole point is that "i" or "j" is the Square Root of Minus One. Thus minus i squared equals Plus One. So: (2+i)*(2-i) = 4+1 = 5 (3+2i)*(3-2i) = 9+4 =13 Quaternions have 3 different square roots of -1, called i, j, k, and they too have Complex Conjugates like Complex Numbers. The Imaginary Components i, j, k then gave us the idea of Vectors. Divide two Vectors and you get a Quaternion. Faictz Ce Que Vouldras: Frank Mitchell From jeff at jeff.net Tue May 13 22:23:55 2008 From: jeff at jeff.net (Jeff LaCoursiere) Date: Tue May 13 22:23:58 2008 Subject: Complex Factors Of Primes In-Reply-To: <200805132200.32035.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> References: <200805111353.34551.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> <200805132200.32035.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> Message-ID: <20080513220045.M57326@jeff.net> I ate a Quaternion once. Tastes like chicken. j On Tue, 13 May 2008 22:00:31 +0100, Frank Mitchell wrote > I'm surprised at you fellas: > > The whole point is that "i" or "j" is the Square Root of Minus One. > Thus minus i squared equals Plus One. So: > > (2+i)*(2-i) = 4+1 = 5 > > (3+2i)*(3-2i) = 9+4 =13 > > Quaternions have 3 different square roots of -1, called i, j, k, and > they too have Complex Conjugates like Complex Numbers. The Imaginary > Components i, j, k then gave us the idea of Vectors. Divide two > Vectors and you get a Quaternion. > > Faictz Ce Que Vouldras: Frank Mitchell > > ------ FreeBSD UK Users' Group - Mailing List ------ > http://listserver.uk.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-users > *** Handled by Will's new toy *** -- Jeff LaCoursiere JB Telenet, LLC 6501 Redhook Plaza, box 395 St Thomas, USVI 00802 From rcgibson at talktalk.net Wed May 14 11:28:23 2008 From: rcgibson at talktalk.net (Roger Gibson) Date: Wed May 14 11:28:27 2008 Subject: [SC.LUG] Complex Factors Of Primes In-Reply-To: <200805132200.32035.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> References: <200805111353.34551.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> <200805132200.32035.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> Message-ID: <482A0FAE.6070400@talktalk.net> I seem to remember this was an active field in the 90's, and specifically to use quaternion based algebra to weed out weak primes in encryption techniques, but I've not kept up with it. I'm sure half an hour starting with Google will get closer to where we are at now. Roger. Frank Mitchell said the following on 13/05/2008 22:00: > I'm surprised at you fellas: > > The whole point is that "i" or "j" is the Square Root of Minus One. > Thus minus i squared equals Plus One. So: > > (2+i)*(2-i) = 4+1 = 5 > > (3+2i)*(3-2i) = 9+4 =13 > > Quaternions have 3 different square roots of -1, called i, j, k, and they too > have Complex Conjugates like Complex Numbers. The Imaginary Components i, j, k > then gave us the idea of Vectors. Divide two Vectors and you get a Quaternion. > > Faictz Ce Que Vouldras: Frank Mitchell > > _______________________________________________ > SC mailing list > SC@mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/sc > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > From olli at lurza.secnetix.de Fri May 16 15:47:17 2008 From: olli at lurza.secnetix.de (Oliver Fromme) Date: Fri May 16 15:47:20 2008 Subject: Feature requests for open-source graphics (OT) In-Reply-To: <20080516170003.1734cb29@peedub.jennejohn.org> Message-ID: <200805161547.m4GFlEZr045076@lurza.secnetix.de> Gary Jennejohn wrote: > Even more OT. Maybe we should redirect this to -chat? I set Reply-To accordingly. > Sounds like the good ol' US of A is totally fubar in this regard. Here > in Germany every fly-by-night DSL provider offers a domain name and home > page hosting because _everybody else_ does too! It's hard to come by a > static IP though. It's not hard, it's just expensive, depending on your ISP. For example, M-net (Bavaria) charges EUR 14.90 (~ USD 22) per Month for a static IP. Right now they have a special 50% offer, so it's only EUR 7.45 per month if you sign up with them now. On the other hand, for most private stuff a dynamic IP with something like dyndns service should be sufficient, I think. That's what i do. I'm not running any public services on my home machine, though, but the dyndns name enables me to ssh into it from somewhere else. Personally I decided to rent a root server for EUR 50 (from Hetzner) which includes a /29 with six static IPs. It's shared with three friends, so each of us pays only EUR 12,50 which is cheaper than a static IP with M-net, and it has a lot more bandwidth than my DSL box at home. Of course I replaced the Linux installation on the root server with FreeBSD. ;-) Best regards Oliver PS: I'm not affiliated with any of the above companies, and I don't benefit from mentioning them. I'm just a satisfied customer. -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch?ftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M?n- chen, HRB 125758, Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd We're sysadmins. To us, data is a protocol-overhead. From saltmiser at gmail.com Sun May 18 21:24:59 2008 From: saltmiser at gmail.com (Jim Capozzoli) Date: Sun May 18 21:25:23 2008 Subject: slide rules Message-ID: <37f72b1f0805181418j16efd60fge243160dbfdc6789@mail.gmail.com> So, I pulled out the slide rule yesterday that's older then I am..and I figured out how to multiply/divide on it. Is there anybody out there still using slide rules for day to day math? Or does anybody have any interesting stories/reminiscences about slide rules? I was considering figuring out how to do Trig on it and then taking my Trig final with it. :) -- Jim Capozzoli D6499626857801B6065013E3645A6B75 From saltmiser at gmail.com Sun May 18 21:37:50 2008 From: saltmiser at gmail.com (Jim Capozzoli) Date: Sun May 18 21:37:54 2008 Subject: freebsdmall.com prices In-Reply-To: <46DC647F.2050109@ixsystems.com> References: <46DBF48E.7030806@gmail.com> <46DC647F.2050109@ixsystems.com> Message-ID: <37f72b1f0805181411h7bd0415eh19a16dcfad75d72@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Sep 3, 2007 at 3:46 PM, Matt Olander wrote: > deeptech71@gmail.com wrote: >> >> I've just looked at the prices at www.freebsdmall.com, and found that they >> are overwhelming. A full FreeBSD release costs like 40$. 40$?! HOLY SHIT! >> Who would buy it for that much money when you can download it for free? Now >> you might think that giving 40$ is a great way for supporting the project. >> But is freebsdmall associated with the core team in any way? OK, even if it >> is, I think there would be more income, if there were a reasonable price. Or >> does mailing a 4 CD set or a DVD really cost that much money?! Either way, I >> think it is still more financially efficient if users download a copy and >> donate like 35$ via some online method. Don't give me wrong. Of course there >> are people without online access or CD/DVD burners, but those are rare case >> exceptions. Am I wrong? Is it not how this thing works? Are lots of people >> really buying freebsdmall products keenly/willingly every time for some >> reason? > > Hi, > > In fact, one of the core team members, Murray Stokely, is on the FreeBSD > Mall payroll. Also, in the past few months alone, we've donated over $20k > USD in modern server hardware for FreeBSD development, made possible in part > due to the revenue generated by the mall. The FreeBSD Mall also provides us > with merchandise that we use to promote FreeBSD at trade shows that we > attend at a cost of several thousand dollars per show. > > I think the $40 dollars for the professionally packaged 4 CD set is not only > an inexpensive investment for a little piece of internet history for each > FreeBSD release, but it is also a tremendous help offsetting a portion of > the costs for our advocacy and hardware support efforts for the FreeBSD > Project. > > best, > -matt > > -- > Matt Olander > CTO, iXsystems - "Servers for Open Source" http://www.iXsystems.com > Public Relations, The FreeBSD Project http://www.FreeBSD.org > BSD on the Desktop! http://www.pcbsd.org > Phone: (408)943-4100 ext. 113 Fax: (408)943-4101 > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > Perhaps though, if it was say $20 more people would buy it. But the question is, would twice as many people buy it? -- Jim Capozzoli D6499626857801B6065013E3645A6B75 From ken at stox.org Sun May 18 22:14:12 2008 From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox) Date: Sun May 18 22:14:18 2008 Subject: freebsdmall.com prices In-Reply-To: <37f72b1f0805181411h7bd0415eh19a16dcfad75d72@mail.gmail.com> References: <46DBF48E.7030806@gmail.com> <46DC647F.2050109@ixsystems.com> <37f72b1f0805181411h7bd0415eh19a16dcfad75d72@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1211148160.11587.5.camel@stox.dyndns.org> On Sun, 2008-05-18 at 17:11 -0400, Jim Capozzoli wrote: > Perhaps though, if it was say $20 more people would buy it. But the > question is, would twice as many people buy it? I think that is covered by PC-BSD. I have no idea how well it sells, though. From astrodog at gmail.com Sun May 18 22:21:01 2008 From: astrodog at gmail.com (Astrodog) Date: Sun May 18 22:21:05 2008 Subject: freebsdmall.com prices In-Reply-To: <37f72b1f0805181411h7bd0415eh19a16dcfad75d72@mail.gmail.com> References: <46DBF48E.7030806@gmail.com> <46DC647F.2050109@ixsystems.com> <37f72b1f0805181411h7bd0415eh19a16dcfad75d72@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2fd864e0805181456s4c6523dbi3f8de3b5ff54d872@mail.gmail.com> > Perhaps though, if it was say $20 more people would buy it. But the > question is, would twice as many people buy it? Not to get pedantic here, but I suspect more than twice as many people would have to buy it, because of the cost to handle the orders, make the media, etc. One thing I'd like to see, is a set of distfile and package DVDs, if that's something that could be put together, Matt. --- Harrison From grog at FreeBSD.org Mon May 19 04:07:44 2008 From: grog at FreeBSD.org (Greg 'groggy' Lehey) Date: Mon May 19 04:07:48 2008 Subject: slide rules In-Reply-To: <37f72b1f0805181418j16efd60fge243160dbfdc6789@mail.gmail.com> References: <37f72b1f0805181418j16efd60fge243160dbfdc6789@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080519035209.GT46655@dereel.lemis.com> On Sunday, 18 May 2008 at 17:18:30 -0400, Jim Capozzoli wrote: > So, I pulled out the slide rule yesterday that's older then I am..and > I figured out how to multiply/divide on it. Is there anybody out > there still using slide rules for day to day math? Or does anybody > have any interesting stories/reminiscences about slide rules? I was > considering figuring out how to do Trig on it and then taking my Trig > final with it. :) Heh. I don't know where my slide rule is, but it's definitely a lot younger than I am. So the following is from memory. It applies to the conventional slide rules that I know, with C/D scales going from 1 to 10 at the bottom, and A/B scales going from 1 to 100 at the top (giving squares of the corresponding scale below). To multiply two numbers, you place the 1 on the C scale (bottom of the slide) against the first number on the D scale (directly below on the body). Move the cursor (or your eye :-) to the second number on the C scale, and read off the result on the D scale. To divide one number by another, you place the divisor the C scale above the dividend on the D scale. Read off the quotient on the D scale below the 1 on the C scale. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-chat/attachments/20080519/46c9f14f/attachment.pgp From olli at lurza.secnetix.de Mon May 19 12:38:49 2008 From: olli at lurza.secnetix.de (Oliver Fromme) Date: Mon May 19 12:38:52 2008 Subject: slide rules In-Reply-To: <37f72b1f0805181418j16efd60fge243160dbfdc6789@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200805191238.m4JCclFX099026@lurza.secnetix.de> Jim Capozzoli wrote: > So, I pulled out the slide rule yesterday that's older then I am..and > I figured out how to multiply/divide on it. Is there anybody out > there still using slide rules for day to day math? Or does anybody > have any interesting stories/reminiscences about slide rules? I was > considering figuring out how to do Trig on it and then taking my Trig > final with it. :) Well, I own a slide rule, it's in a drawer under my desk at home. But I have to confess that I almost never use it, because typing "bc -l" is much faster and delivers more accurate results. In fact I've bound "bc -l" to an inline hotkey of my shell's (zsh) command line editor, so the result is inserted at the cursor position. [*] Best regards Oliver [*] PS: For users of zsh, put this into your ~/.zshrc to bind the function to Esc M. # # Calculate an arithmetic expression using bc(1) # and insert the result at the cursor position. # user-insert-math-expression() { setopt localoptions extendedglob zle -I local X=$( stty sane <&2 read "X?Math expression: " <&2 echo -E "$X" | bc -l 2>/dev/null ) if [[ $? -ne 0 || -z "$X" ]]; then zle beep; zle -M "*** Error in math expression! ***" else if [[ "$X" == *.* ]]; then # Decimal point? X="${X%%0#}" # Remove trailing zeros. if [[ "$X" == .* ]]; then X="0$X" # Add zero before. fi fi LBUFFER="${LBUFFER}$X" fi } zle -N user-insert-math-expression bindkey '^[m' user-insert-math-expression -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch?ftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M?n- chen, HRB 125758, Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "FreeBSD is Yoda, Linux is Luke Skywalker" -- Daniel C. Sobral From jan.grant at bristol.ac.uk Mon May 19 17:45:41 2008 From: jan.grant at bristol.ac.uk (Jan Grant) Date: Mon May 19 17:45:46 2008 Subject: slide rules In-Reply-To: <20080519035209.GT46655@dereel.lemis.com> References: <37f72b1f0805181418j16efd60fge243160dbfdc6789@mail.gmail.com> <20080519035209.GT46655@dereel.lemis.com> Message-ID: <20080519182201.N68739@tribble.ilrt.bris.ac.uk> On Mon, 19 May 2008, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > On Sunday, 18 May 2008 at 17:18:30 -0400, Jim Capozzoli wrote: > > I was > > considering figuring out how to do Trig on it and then taking my Trig > > final with it. :) [snip] > To multiply two numbers, you place the 1 on the C scale (bottom of the > slide) against the first number on the D scale (directly below on the > body). Move the cursor (or your eye :-) to the second number on the C > scale, and read off the result on the D scale. This follows naturally from: ln (xy) = ln x + ln y If you're trying to do trig, presumably the same ideas apply. Since cos x = 1/2 (e^ix + e^-ix) you need to be able to move one half of the slide rule perpendicular to the plane that the other half occupies? Yours in theory, jan -- jan grant, ISYS, University of Bristol. http://www.bris.ac.uk/ Tel +44 (0)117 3317661 http://ioctl.org/jan/ They modified their trousers secretly. From solarux at hotmail.com Tue May 20 02:58:17 2008 From: solarux at hotmail.com (Rick Nekus) Date: Tue May 20 02:58:21 2008 Subject: slide rules In-Reply-To: <20080519035209.GT46655@dereel.lemis.com> References: <37f72b1f0805181418j16efd60fge243160dbfdc6789@mail.gmail.com> <20080519035209.GT46655@dereel.lemis.com> Message-ID: My Uncle , a long-retired Consttruction Engineer used a "slide-rule" to estimate the quantity/mixture/plasiciity/... of ALL the concrete needed for the building of the John Hancock building in Chicago with nothing but a "Slide-Rule". ! -NO, I kid you not. His results? -its still standing. -"NO" computers needed. Of course he had a few decades of experience with concrete prior. yup, and he still likes to remind me of that fact, and ya, I do have some links now to prove it. :) -whatever can work. > Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 13:52:09 +1000> From: grog@FreeBSD.org> To: saltmiser@gmail.com> CC: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: slide rules> > On Sunday, 18 May 2008 at 17:18:30 -0400, Jim Capozzoli wrote:> > So, I pulled out the slide rule yesterday that's older then I am..and> > I figured out how to multiply/divide on it. Is there anybody out> > there still using slide rules for day to day math? Or does anybody> > have any interesting stories/reminiscences about slide rules? I was> > considering figuring out how to do Trig on it and then taking my Trig> > final with it. :)> > Heh. I don't know where my slide rule is, but it's definitely a lot> younger than I am. So the following is from memory. It applies to> the conventional slide rules that I know, with C/D scales going from 1> to 10 at the bottom, and A/B scales going from 1 to 100 at the top> (giving squares of the corresponding scale below).> > To multiply two numbers, you place the 1 on the C scale (bottom of the> slide) against the first number on the D scale (directly below on the> body). Move the cursor (or your eye :-) to the second number on the C> scale, and read off the result on the D scale.> > To divide one number by another, you place the divisor the C scale> above the dividend on the D scale. Read off the quotient on the D> scale below the 1 on the C scale.> > Greg> --> See complete headers for address and phone numbers. _________________________________________________________________ From john at brann.org Tue May 20 14:44:15 2008 From: john at brann.org (John Brann) Date: Tue May 20 14:44:20 2008 Subject: slide rules In-Reply-To: <20080519035209.GT46655@dereel.lemis.com> References: <37f72b1f0805181418j16efd60fge243160dbfdc6789@mail.gmail.com> <20080519035209.GT46655@dereel.lemis.com> Message-ID: <20080520141423.GA33386@freebie.brann.org> On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 01:52:09PM +1000, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > On Sunday, 18 May 2008 at 17:18:30 -0400, Jim Capozzoli wrote: > > So, I pulled out the slide rule yesterday that's older then I am..and > > I figured out how to multiply/divide on it. Is there anybody out > > there still using slide rules for day to day math? Or does anybody > > have any interesting stories/reminiscences about slide rules? I was > > considering figuring out how to do Trig on it and then taking my Trig > > final with it. :) > > Heh. I don't know where my slide rule is, but it's definitely a lot > younger than I am. So the following is from memory. It applies to > the conventional slide rules that I know, with C/D scales going from 1 > to 10 at the bottom, and A/B scales going from 1 to 100 at the top > (giving squares of the corresponding scale below). > > To multiply two numbers, you place the 1 on the C scale (bottom of the > slide) against the first number on the D scale (directly below on the > body). Move the cursor (or your eye :-) to the second number on the C > scale, and read off the result on the D scale. > > To divide one number by another, you place the divisor the C scale > above the dividend on the D scale. Read off the quotient on the D > scale below the 1 on the C scale. > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address and phone numbers. I'm afraid I don;t use it much - but I still have mine to hand. It's on my desk, in New York City, with a cricket ball. Both objects are there to confuse the locals. Both succeed. John -- Unreal City, Under the brown fog of a winter dawn, -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-chat/attachments/20080520/f82296ef/attachment.pgp From cristclark at comcast.net Tue May 20 20:16:58 2008 From: cristclark at comcast.net (Crist J. Clark) Date: Tue May 20 20:17:03 2008 Subject: Quiet Firewall/Access Point Device Message-ID: <20080520200116.GA69452@goku.pumpky.net> Right now, I've got an old PC functioning as my firewall/ bastion host and as the wireless access point. It's running FreeBSD 5.5. I'd like to retire it and its noisy fan (it's in the bedroom right now). I'm wondering about fanless PCs or even a flash-based system. Something I could put FreeBSD on would be nice, but not required. I would like a "general purpose" Unix-like OS however. It needs, - Firewall - 802.11ag - WEP and WPA - IPsec - IPv6 - SSH The price? Lower the better obviously. I've Googled for stuff, but was hoping for some recommendations from people with similar working setup that they are happy with. Anyone out there? -- Crist J. Clark | cjclark@alum.mit.edu From max at love2party.net Tue May 20 20:43:48 2008 From: max at love2party.net (Max Laier) Date: Tue May 20 20:43:53 2008 Subject: Quiet Firewall/Access Point Device In-Reply-To: <20080520200116.GA69452@goku.pumpky.net> References: <20080520200116.GA69452@goku.pumpky.net> Message-ID: <200805202230.58040.max@love2party.net> On Tuesday 20 May 2008 22:01:16 Crist J. Clark wrote: > Right now, I've got an old PC functioning as my firewall/ > bastion host and as the wireless access point. It's running > FreeBSD 5.5. I'd like to retire it and its noisy fan (it's > in the bedroom right now). I'm wondering about fanless PCs > or even a flash-based system. Something I could put FreeBSD > on would be nice, but not required. I would like a "general > purpose" Unix-like OS however. It needs, > > - Firewall > - 802.11ag > - WEP and WPA > - IPsec > - IPv6 > - SSH > > The price? Lower the better obviously. I've Googled for stuff, > but was hoping for some recommendations from people with > similar working setup that they are happy with. Anyone out there? See e.g. here: http://www.pfsense.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=44&Itemid=50 Also http://www.soekris.com/products.htm And of course pfsense.org is a good one-stop solution. -- /"\ Best regards, | mlaier@freebsd.org \ / Max Laier | ICQ #67774661 X http://pf4freebsd.love2party.net/ | mlaier@EFnet / \ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Against HTML Mail and News From naddy at mips.inka.de Tue May 20 20:51:45 2008 From: naddy at mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Date: Tue May 20 20:51:48 2008 Subject: slide rules References: <37f72b1f0805181418j16efd60fge243160dbfdc6789@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Jim Capozzoli wrote: > So, I pulled out the slide rule yesterday that's older then I am..and > I figured out how to multiply/divide on it. ports/deskutils/sliderule -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From dkelly at hiwaay.net Tue May 20 21:41:20 2008 From: dkelly at hiwaay.net (David Kelly) Date: Tue May 20 21:41:26 2008 Subject: slide rules In-Reply-To: References: <37f72b1f0805181418j16efd60fge243160dbfdc6789@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080520211438.GA32447@Grumpy.DynDNS.org> On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 07:42:50PM +0000, Christian Weisgerber wrote: > Jim Capozzoli wrote: > > > So, I pulled out the slide rule yesterday that's older then I am..and > > I figured out how to multiply/divide on it. > > ports/deskutils/sliderule Finally! Have been waiting for someone to find a FreeBSD-compatible sliderule! And this one is _so_ modern in using a virtual machine! -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net ======================================================================== Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. From dkelly at hiwaay.net Tue May 20 21:51:53 2008 From: dkelly at hiwaay.net (David Kelly) Date: Tue May 20 21:51:58 2008 Subject: Quiet Firewall/Access Point Device In-Reply-To: <20080520200116.GA69452@goku.pumpky.net> References: <20080520200116.GA69452@goku.pumpky.net> Message-ID: <20080520212510.GB32447@Grumpy.DynDNS.org> On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 01:01:16PM -0700, Crist J. Clark wrote: > Right now, I've got an old PC functioning as my firewall/ > bastion host and as the wireless access point. It's running > FreeBSD 5.5. I'd like to retire it and its noisy fan (it's > in the bedroom right now). I'm wondering about fanless PCs > or even a flash-based system. Something I could put FreeBSD > on would be nice, but not required. I would like a "general > purpose" Unix-like OS however. It needs, > > - Firewall > - 802.11ag > - WEP and WPA > - IPsec > - IPv6 > - SSH > > The price? Lower the better obviously. I've Googled for stuff, > but was hoping for some recommendations from people with > similar working setup that they are happy with. Anyone out there? WRT54GL is in the $50 to $75 range. Is not the only device capable of running OpenWRT, just one of the better supported. http://openwrt.org/ I have one that I pack for travel. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net ======================================================================== Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. From db at db.net Wed May 21 01:36:31 2008 From: db at db.net (Diane Bruce) Date: Wed May 21 01:36:35 2008 Subject: slide rules In-Reply-To: <20080520211438.GA32447@Grumpy.DynDNS.org> References: <37f72b1f0805181418j16efd60fge243160dbfdc6789@mail.gmail.com> <20080520211438.GA32447@Grumpy.DynDNS.org> Message-ID: <20080521010059.GA94244@night.db.net> On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 04:14:38PM -0500, David Kelly wrote: > On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 07:42:50PM +0000, Christian Weisgerber wrote: > > Jim Capozzoli wrote: ... > Finally! > Have been waiting for someone to find a FreeBSD-compatible sliderule! > > And this one is _so_ modern in using a virtual machine! I've been meaning to reply to this thread, I have a slide rule or two, but don't use them daily. I still know how to use 'em though. ;-) > > -- > David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net Seeing your callsign reminded me of this one: At the last homebrew night at http://www.oarc.net, one of the hams brought in some homebrew sliderules made out of CD cases and blank CD covers. I regret not bringing a camera and getting some photos. - 73 Diane VA3DB (http://www.db.net/hamfreesbie) -- - db@FreeBSD.org db@db.net http://www.db.net/~db From brett at lariat.net Wed May 21 02:15:25 2008 From: brett at lariat.net (Brett Glass) Date: Wed May 21 02:15:28 2008 Subject: slide rules In-Reply-To: <20080520211438.GA32447@Grumpy.DynDNS.org> References: <37f72b1f0805181418j16efd60fge243160dbfdc6789@mail.gmail.com> <20080520211438.GA32447@Grumpy.DynDNS.org> Message-ID: <200805210139.TAA23490@lariat.net> At 03:14 PM 5/20/2008, David Kelly wrote: >Finally! >Have been waiting for someone to find a FreeBSD-compatible sliderule! Slipsticks are especially good for calculating release schedules. ;-) --Brett Glass From solskogen at carebears.mine.nu Wed May 21 07:01:39 2008 From: solskogen at carebears.mine.nu (Christer Solskogen) Date: Wed May 21 07:01:43 2008 Subject: Quiet Firewall/Access Point Device In-Reply-To: <20080520200116.GA69452@goku.pumpky.net> References: <20080520200116.GA69452@goku.pumpky.net> Message-ID: <4833C3BB.9060909@carebears.mine.nu> Crist J. Clark wrote: > The price? Lower the better obviously. I've Googled for stuff, > but was hoping for some recommendations from people with > similar working setup that they are happy with. Anyone out there? Fit-PC. Its small, it makes no sound, and have two ethernet. No wi-fi but it has USB. -- chs From chuckr at telenix.org Thu May 22 18:14:48 2008 From: chuckr at telenix.org (Chuck Robey) Date: Thu May 22 18:14:53 2008 Subject: if you don't get this Message-ID: <4835AFE5.2000000@telenix.org> Skipped content of type multipart/mixed-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 250 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-chat/attachments/20080522/0ebcb68d/signature.pgp From sequethin at gmail.com Thu May 22 18:46:58 2008 From: sequethin at gmail.com (Michael Hernandez) Date: Thu May 22 18:47:03 2008 Subject: if you don't get this In-Reply-To: <4835AFE5.2000000@telenix.org> References: <4835AFE5.2000000@telenix.org> Message-ID: your jpg was removed by the list mailer :( can you email it to me directly (assuming it's not goatse, 2girl, etc) lol --Mike H On May 22, 2008, at 1:39 PM, Chuck Robey wrote: > then you haven't got a sense of humor, this is the best I've see > lately. Do > yourself a favor, I've attached a jpg, if your mailer doesn't inline > it, go out > of your way and display it, it's worth your time! From solarux at hotmail.com Fri May 23 05:01:46 2008 From: solarux at hotmail.com (Rick Nekus) Date: Fri May 23 05:01:53 2008 Subject: freebsdmall.com prices In-Reply-To: <37f72b1f0805181411h7bd0415eh19a16dcfad75d72@mail.gmail.com> References: <46DBF48E.7030806@gmail.com> <46DC647F.2050109@ixsystems.com> <37f72b1f0805181411h7bd0415eh19a16dcfad75d72@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: "> I think the $40 dollars for the professionally packaged 4 CD set is not only> an inexpensive investment for a little piece of internet history for each> FreeBSD release, but it is also a tremendous help offsetting a portion of> the costs for our advocacy and hardware support efforts for the FreeBSD> Project.>> best,> -matt" -I totally aggree with the above and more, I have bought PCBSD , and am going to order FreeBSD7 a freind of mine spent $399.00 (CDN) last year for WinVista-OEM-64-bit. He's now back to WinXP -need I say more ? I mean for $50 ?!, even $50/year, is a good "investment" in FreeBSD/PCBSD for me anyways. and if everybody did that a lot of users', like me, wouldn't need Windows, not to mention, PC hardware architecture's could really flourish("develop"), and become a lot better... ...so there. :) Rick. > Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 17:11:37 -0400> From: saltmiser@gmail.com> To: matt@ixsystems.com> CC: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: freebsdmall.com prices> > On Mon, Sep 3, 2007 at 3:46 PM, Matt Olander wrote:> > deeptech71@gmail.com wrote:> >>> >> I've just looked at the prices at www.freebsdmall.com, and found that they> >> are overwhelming. A full FreeBSD release costs like 40$. 40$?! HOLY SHIT!> >> Who would buy it for that much money when you can download it for free? Now> >> you might think that giving 40$ is a great way for supporting the project.> >> But is freebsdmall associated with the core team in any way? OK, even if it> >> is, I think there would be more income, if there were a reasonable price. Or> >> does mailing a 4 CD set or a DVD really cost that much money?! Either way, I> >> think it is still more financially efficient if users download a copy and> >> donate like 35$ via some online method. Don't give me wrong. Of course there> >> are people without online access or CD/DVD burners, but those are rare case> >> exceptions. Am I wrong? Is it not how this thing works? Are lots of people> >> really buying freebsdmall products keenly/willingly every time for some> >> reason?> >> > Hi,> >> > In fact, one of the core team members, Murray Stokely, is on the FreeBSD> > Mall payroll. Also, in the past few months alone, we've donated over $20k> > USD in modern server hardware for FreeBSD development, made possible in part> > due to the revenue generated by the mall. The FreeBSD Mall also provides us> > with merchandise that we use to promote FreeBSD at trade shows that we> > attend at a cost of several thousand dollars per show.> >> > I think the $40 dollars for the professionally packaged 4 CD set is not only> > an inexpensive investment for a little piece of internet history for each> > FreeBSD release, but it is also a tremendous help offsetting a portion of> > the costs for our advocacy and hardware support efforts for the FreeBSD> > Project.> >> > best,> > -matt> >> > --> > Matt Olander> > CTO, iXsystems - "Servers for Open Source" http://www.iXsystems.com> > Public Relations, The FreeBSD Project http://www.FreeBSD.org> > BSD on the Desktop! http://www.pcbsd.org> > Phone: (408)943-4100 ext. 113 Fax: (408)943-4101> >> > _______________________________________________> > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list> > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat> > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"> >> Perhaps though, if it was say $20 more people would buy it. But the> question is, would twice as many people buy it?> > > -- > Jim Capozzoli> D6499626857801B6065013E3645A6B75> _______________________________________________> freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" _________________________________________________________________ From aryeh.friedman at gmail.com Sun May 25 20:10:08 2008 From: aryeh.friedman at gmail.com (Aryeh M. Friedman) Date: Sun May 25 20:10:15 2008 Subject: [OT] looking for a algorithm Message-ID: <4839C799.6020104@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Lets say I have a string of n bits that needs to be filled by repeatedly applying some function on k strings of m bits where |m|<|n|. Assuming that m(i) is a random string and n needs to also be random what is the best way to do this. Note it is possible that k*|m|>|n|. What I have been thinking so far is: ~ Let m' be the average length of m // this is pre-computable ~ Let n be all 0's ~ for i=0 --> k ~ pos=m'*i ~ xor string k[i] onto n starting at pos // wrap around if needed ~ While this is simple I wonder if it can be attacked (determine what k[i]) if k*|m|>|n| (it is trivial to attack if k*|m|<=|n|). Also is there some way to make attacking hard if k*|m|<=|n|? ~ Ideas? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg5x5gACgkQk8GFzCrQm4C47wCfVLGiXFwILBsRIoZ3Sx3fpMf7 DrsAn1Fr196aTJ3vMUFJ21+sqM0AZdB8 =UF9N -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From carpetsmoker at rwxrwxrwx.net Sun May 25 20:46:08 2008 From: carpetsmoker at rwxrwxrwx.net (Martin Tournoij) Date: Sun May 25 20:46:11 2008 Subject: [OT] looking for a algorithm In-Reply-To: <4839C799.6020104@gmail.com> References: <4839C799.6020104@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080525203052.GA6996@rwxrwxrwx.net> On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 04:10:01PM -0400, Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > Lets say I have a string of n bits that needs to be filled by repeatedly > applying some function on k strings of m bits where |m|<|n|. Assuming > that m(i) is a random string and n needs to also be random what is the best > way to do this. Note it is possible that k*|m|>|n|. What I have been > thinking so far is: > > ~ Let m' be the average length of m // this is pre-computable > ~ Let n be all 0's > > ~ for i=0 --> k > ~ pos=m'*i > > ~ xor string k[i] onto n starting at pos // wrap around if needed > > ~ While this is simple I wonder if it can be attacked (determine what > k[i]) if k*|m|>|n| (it is trivial to attack if k*|m|<=|n|). Also is there > some way to make attacking hard if k*|m|<=|n|? > > ~ Ideas? So you want us to do your homework...? -- Martin Tournoij carpetsmoker@rwxrwxrwx.net http://www.daemonforums.org Information is the inverse of entropy. From aryeh.friedman at gmail.com Sun May 25 20:50:15 2008 From: aryeh.friedman at gmail.com (Aryeh M. Friedman) Date: Sun May 25 20:50:19 2008 Subject: [OT] looking for a algorithm In-Reply-To: <20080525203052.GA6996@rwxrwxrwx.net> References: <4839C799.6020104@gmail.com> <20080525203052.GA6996@rwxrwxrwx.net> Message-ID: <4839D100.30405@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Martin Tournoij wrote: | On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 04:10:01PM -0400, Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: |> Lets say I have a string of n bits that needs to be filled by repeatedly |> applying some function on k strings of m bits where |m|<|n|. Assuming |> that m(i) is a random string and n needs to also be random what is the best |> way to do this. Note it is possible that k*|m|>|n|. What I have been |> thinking so far is: |> |> ~ Let m' be the average length of m // this is pre-computable |> ~ Let n be all 0's |> |> ~ for i=0 --> k |> ~ pos=m'*i |> |> ~ xor string k[i] onto n starting at pos // wrap around if needed |> |> ~ While this is simple I wonder if it can be attacked (determine what |> k[i]) if k*|m|>|n| (it is trivial to attack if k*|m|<=|n|). Also is there |> some way to make attacking hard if k*|m|<=|n|? |> |> ~ Ideas? | | So you want us to do your homework...? | If this was homework I would just use the above and take the b or what ever I would get on it but I need this for something else where any attack is not good. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg50QAACgkQk8GFzCrQm4BA2ACcC3s3JmVzqKwFDi+l1TtwsKXe e1QAoMTBCmZi0rQueLkrGMJrzjVggWGR =1954 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From infofarmer at FreeBSD.org Mon May 26 10:19:15 2008 From: infofarmer at FreeBSD.org (Andrew Pantyukhin) Date: Mon May 26 10:19:19 2008 Subject: [OT] looking for a algorithm In-Reply-To: <4839C799.6020104@gmail.com> References: <4839C799.6020104@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080526101906.GQ92161@amilo.cenkes.org> On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 04:10:01PM -0400, Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > While this is simple I wonder if it can be attacked ... Check out SHA-related RFC's and especially the reading referenced (both within IETF and outside) in them. From leadamc1 at gmail.com Thu May 29 01:16:09 2008 From: leadamc1 at gmail.com (Lei Chen) Date: Thu May 29 01:16:16 2008 Subject: where is a lightweight, simple word processor? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2E1DF18942294996AD68EBCD8EDD8D48@PowerWS> > On May 6, 2008, at 5:31 PM, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > >> I have been looking for a simple word processor that supports >> formatted >> text, different fonts and maybe bullet lists. And is close to >> WYSIWYG. I >> don't care about format it can save or import as long as I can find an >> intermediate tool to do my conversions. I don't need tables. But if >> it can >> plug into another speller that would be nice but not required. Also >> images >> not required, but okay. Support for multiple languages would be nice >> but >> required right now. I will accept losing formatting attributes when >> importing. Page breaks would be nice but not required. >> >> (I often receive and send press releases and other documents that >> are in >> different formats. I don't like losing all the formatting when I >> send back >> an edited document. I don't mind losing hidden metadata.) >> >> I found gwp but old 1999 code uses old gnome-libs. >> >> I found 1998 maxwell, but haven't figured out build yet on modern >> system. >> >> siag's pw has crashed a few times on me. And I don't know if >> maintained. >> >> Ted has worked for me sometimes and failed for me sometimes. I don't >> know >> if still maintained. >> >> abiword is too big. kword is too big. oowriter is too big. LyX is >> too big. >> I don't want to require KDE libraries, libgnome, teTeX, or other big >> dependencies. I don't need hundreds of features just to be able to >> edit >> and provide simple document that has some formatted text. I don't >> want to >> manually type in RTF, XML, or OpenDocument formats. >> >> Maybe there is some GTK widget that provides a rich formatting editor? >> >> Maybe some rich format editor can be stripped out of some email >> client or >> HTML editor to be a standalone simple light word processor? >> > > If you were using OS X I'd suggest Bean... Not sure what to tell you! > > --Mike H Thanks, Bean is pretty good, just tried it. From olexandr.syd at gmail.com Thu May 29 16:02:44 2008 From: olexandr.syd at gmail.com (Olexandr Sydorchuk) Date: Thu May 29 16:02:48 2008 Subject: Disk io priority Message-ID: <20080529183550.72c24fc5@osprey.skynet.if.ua> Hi all, Is it any option for kernel that change priority for disk io? I use freebsd as desktop, and under X its not comfortable when some process exec massive disk io to/from hd ( for example dd if=/dev/ad2s2 of=/dev/null vary hard for my cpu =)). -- regards, Olexandr