on content versus presentation [ was: Re: Why the FreeBSD license will not be changing ]

[KAYVEN RIESE]

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008, Jason C. Wells wrote:
> jonathan michaels wrote:
>> On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 11:43:21PM -0700, Jason C. Wells wrote:
>>> spellberg_robert wrote:
>>> 
>>>> when your content is sound,
>>>>   the presentation will take care of itself.
>>> /me hands Rob a paragraph and some upper case letters.

BRAVO

>
>> we all use the 'lingua franca' at different levels of usability for all
>> and different levels of competance for all and various differnt levels
>> of the 'human' condition. my bodies uniqunesses help me see thes
>> 'different levels' i write the way that i write because this is how
>> best that i can see (as in visual acuity, as well as frontal cortex
>> issues both learning) and understanding.
>
> Wow! That sure sounds fancy.

INDEED!  IMHO there should be a study on WPM no caps versus the carpal
tunnel inducing "correct punctuation."

> I won't disagree that content is more important.  Presentation is about ease 
> of use.  Presentation is the ergonomics of the prose.  And since good 
> presentation is incredibly much more simple to attain than good content, one 
> ought to put forth the very slight effort needed to achieve good 
> presentation.
>
> And what's more.  If you are e.e. cummings or Pablo Picasso than feel free to 
> present as you see fit.  All others, please color between the lines.

who is to say he ISN'T.  i beg to differ with modern lovers, realistically
pablo picasso was OFTEN called an asshole.  you'd think this would be
the 21st century and ppl would realize HOW MUCH TIME WE ARE WASTING
on this "METACONTENT" the discussion of "inferior presentation" instead
of getting to the business of HELP EACH OTHER HELP THE WORLD OPEN UP
TO freeBSD!!!!!!!!!!!

>> disabled, people, with english as a sencond language and a whole lot of
>> stuff that is people in between ... sitting at our keyboards we can
>> foreget that teh stuff out there is another person, a person not a
>> machine providing content for our own consumption for our benefit.
>
> If an author writes to an audience and that author is not writing for the 
> audience's benefit, then what on Earth are they doing?  Even now, while I try 
> to persuade the FreeBSD audience, including yourself and Rob, that 
> presentation is also important, I do so because I perceive there is a benefit 
> to the audience.  I may be wrong, but that is for the audience to decide.

i'm wearing a *@&# pink suit and *@#&ed no job for me.  i REFUSE to
place undue ephamphasis on NONSENSE before SENSE. LIES LIES LIES corporate
lies PoLITICAL pressure!  the PLANET HAS CANCER the oil companies playing
the game of denial played by the cigarette companies in the 1950s

DENIAL!! NO MONEY FOR YOUR "TRUTH!!!" it offends MY GOD OF THE GREEN
TOILET PAPER WITH THE PYRAMID eye!!! all hallow the green paper! the
economy MUST GROW!!! EARTH MUST BECOME JUPITER!!!!!

http://www.kayve.net/kayve/index.html#arctic2007

>
>> if this is how we treat people then it dosen't matter how good freebsd,
>> is.
>
> The topic at hand was content versus presentation. The chief point was that 
> presentation is also important to effective communication.  My response was 
> terse, but it was not ad hominem.

the term is "you got short with him." "getting short" hurts.  it hurts
like the theist lie hurts.  it hurts like no cookies.  it hurts like
you are a luser.

http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/L/luser.html

it hurts like "you're a stupid baby."  it hurts like
"you are a nigger."  it hurts like "you did pretty good
  for a woman."

>
>> going to be .. it dosent matter if when they come here to get help
>
> Let's get the context correct here.  Rob wasn't asking for help.  He was 
> pontificating on a topic of presentation, all while using horrendous 
> presentation.  I disagreed with his premise.  I provided a case in point as 
> rebuttal.  Presentation doesn't work itself out.
>

meanwhile, wtf cares about wtf the question was?  there is still the
bug somebody was asking about, and now we spend time getting hurt
by being a "script kiddie" at age 41 and 11 months.  it should have
been "obvious" to anyone who has spent 10 years concentrating on
some arcane minuitia!

> I really think that you haven't thought this through very well. And as far as 
> your claim about the selfishness of people wanting "their content" in "their 
> way" I would advise you to consider that the audience and their 
> considerations are vastly more important than the author's. The author should 
> tune his content and his presentation to suit the needs of the audience.

it would be nice if people just treated people with a little kindness,
e.g. "I'm sorry, It is bothering me that you are not capitalizing,
would you be so kind as to humor me on this one, my good man?"

Okay.  Etiquette. That's what it is there for.  ::sigh::  Sad maturity
is creeping upon mine loins.

> I'm fairly certain that the larger share of the FreeBSD community and 
> especially those engaged in the production of content do see the value of 
> using consistent presentation, format, and tools.  Why did I choose to 
> expound to today? Now that I'm done I'm left scratching my head.

Otay.  Let me scratch it for you then. ::scritch scritch::

Feel better now? Make nice?  {:}

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*----------------------------------------------------------*
   Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics)
   (415) 902 5513 cellular
   http://kayve.net
   Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org
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