strace broken in 7.0?

[Timo Schoeler]

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Thus Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des at des.no> spake on Fri, 11 Jan 2008
14:22:48 +0100:

> Timo Schoeler <timo.schoeler at riscworks.net> writes:
> > Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des at des.no> writes:
> > > Those people clearly don't understand the FreeBSD development
> > > model.
> > So, the FreeBSD development model does neither care in case the tree
> > breaks (read: is unbuildable, or in the direction of being
> > unbuildable soon, or in the direction of becoming of lesser quality
> > than it was in any time before)? I doubt this.
> 
> Plurium Interrogationum.  Your question presupposes that FreeBSD is or
> will soon be unbuildable and / or that its quality decreases over
> time.

The quality decrease could be felt, and was felt by too many people.

> That is far from the case.  In fact, we have very strong QA
> mechanisms in place to ensure that it does not happen.

Better ones than those that were there years ago are *now* in place or
being implemented.

> If you
> believe otherwise, you are misinformed, deluded or malicious.

I don't 'believe'.

> > > This "no interest" bit is completely fundamental.  Code gets
> > > written by the people who have an interest in it, either because
> > > they need it themselves, or because they find it intellectually
> > > satisfying, or because someone donated unsupported hardware, or
> > > because someone paid them to do it.
> > Setting the last two points you made aside, it's good, but not
> > perfect. Code should be written and commited if it's needed. The
> > example of the HD sound was bad, see my other mail (later).
> 
> OK, very slowly now:
> 
> That is not how collaborative open source development works.

On Linux it works like this, everyone does what (s)he wants, and a few
gurus (Torvalds etc) have hard times to concentrate on the important
things. The BSDs have/had a different approach, and this was well known
throughout the community and is still said in case somebody asks.

> How it works is, code gets written by people who have an interest in
> it.

Never said anything against this.

> If the people who have a direct interest in it are unwilling or unable
> to write it, their only recourse is to cause someone else to become
> interested.  Some people you can simply talk into it, others won't be
> interested until you offer money, because writing the code you want
> them to write will take time away from writing the code they
> themselves want to write.
> 
> If you do not understand this, you will be more comfortable using
> commercial software.

You didn't get my point.

> However, I suspect you will find that commercial software developers
> are even *less* responsive to your needs.

My main need is a stable OS; furthermore, I can choose between a
variety of OSs, starting from the BSDs to Solaris/AIX to whatever
crawls around there. No problem.

> I hate to ask this, but: have you actually written any open source
> code yourself?

I did, and I still help to work on a BSD licensed exokernel that will be
published when it's finished.

> I suspect you haven't, because if you had, you would
> already understand this.

You didn't get my point, again.

> > As long as it doesn't break things or causes regressions, I'm fine
> > with it. But: Even if it doesn't cause any harm, every snippet of
> > code should be taken care of by a person (or a group) that's liable
> > for this code. That's a crucial point, IMHO.
> 
> No.  You don't get to use the L-word.  The license says so, in capital
> letters.

You know the difference between ``I can't sue you for your dog pooing
into my yard'' and the fact that you should be ashamed of your dog
doing it and you allowing it? Convert this, take it *(-1), then you get
the picture. I write code, commit it, whatever, then I should be
'liable' for it, take care it works, whatever. It's a *moral* thing!

> If what you really meant was "responsible", see above.  People will
> only take responsibility for a piece of code if they have an interest
> in it.

Then they should join the Linux guys. Seems the BSD universe changed
very much during the years, eh?

Years ago there were mature guys coding and doing a *very* good job.
Nowadays it seems that they code to impress their girlfriends. As said,
join the Linux gang.

> > [...] I wouldn't be surprised about races on six core machines.
> 
> I would.  Very much.

Welcome to reality. Honestly.

> DES
> -- 
> Dag-Erling Smørgrav - des at des.no

Timo

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