who wrote this

jonathan michaels jlm at caamora.com.au
Mon Nov 26 19:04:12 PST 2007


On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 10:05:05AM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 08:12:36PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote:

removed for brevity
 
> > And you haven't got the right to excise Hitler's name from FreeBSD
> > material. Don't you see the irony in that? When he banned certain
> > artists on the grounds of "decency" just like you're proposing to do.

> Two points
 
> 1) first of all, i don't think that freebsd operating system is an 
> appropriate forum to express political views.  so whether we are for or 
> against censorship or democracy or fascism or communism, it really does not 
> matter.  what matters is how good our coding is, and how appropriate the 
> wording on our website.  because like it or not, we have to present a decent 
> website that does not offend our users and does not make us look bad in 
> front of non-users.

so just using a name is a political statement ?? a political comment ??
explain to me please when this happened, i'm not truely current as
regards my political education.
 
> 2) That's the thing, banning hitlers name is not at all what i'm trying to 
> do.  I think we should keep his quotes in the database of quotes, if that's 
> what the community thinks is appropriate.  What I'm suggesting is that we 
> remove his name from the website: 
> (http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html) because it seems to 
> innapropriately focus the attention away from the program (Fortune) and 
> unecessarily makes the FreeBSD community seem like a bunch of insensitive 
> jerks because we seemingly condone hitlers sayings.   People who come 
> accross this wording will not stop to think about all the deep philosophical 
> reasons why the text needs to be there to protect freedoms.  All they will 
> see is that we seemingly support Hitler.  Why don't we have other names 
> controversial during our times like Mussolini, Stalin, or even Gorge Bush?

ummmm i would like to add a third point .. question, view.

you seem to talk like a person who hasn't a clue .. like teh majority
off the politically correct opinion 'pushers' in this world. most of
my family didn;t make it out of europe during wwII but my grandmother
did and her daughter my mother did did as well. they didn't talk much
about what really happened but i remember teh scream nightmares like
they are happening right now.

note, i am not advocating any political position. maybe i didn't need
to say this .. but just in case..

one thing that my grandmother taught me was that the day we start to
sucomb tot eh opinions of those that would hide the not so nice things
in this world that is teh day we start the clock to teh next episode.

you want to take out those things because tehy are truely ofensive or because
you personally find them offensive for what ever justification you care
to choose ? if they are truely offensive then sure BUT if it is a case
of personal offence because of what others might think of you and
you are frightened of what they might say about you ?? this is what it
sounds like to my simple mind.

we as a group wil eventually need to make our minds up as regards to
how far we go to appease the nefarious 'others' that rule us all be
fear, fear of being left out, fear of being cast as teh outsider.

my grandmother asked me to remember what happened because she was
frightened that me and people like me (i am intellectuall and
physically disabled) will, at best be discriminated against or at worst
be 'scrubed out' because we are a burden, don;t fit.

the only way we can remember is to have those items before our eyes,
yes they might be hard to swallow they might even be politically
incorrect at this point in time but we as a society need to remember
what teh real costs of appeasment really is .. it has already started
with freebsd change from teh logo come mascot beastie being change to a
LESS offensive image were is it going to stop ??  

> 
> > Just because he was "evil" doesn't mean he and the rest of his
> > henchmen didn't have something interesting to say about the human
> > condition. If you don't believe me, read "Brave New World: Revisited"
> > by A.Huxley.
> 
> This has nothing to do with anything that I'm saying.  Listen, my 
> grandmother also has some interesting things to say but you don't put her 
> name on the front page of the Fortune program because it's not appropriate. 
> Same thing here.  Just not an appropriate forum.

then where are the apprepriate fora ?

in conclusion, i hope your grandmother didn't have to see and do teh
things that my grandmother needed to too survive wwII.

please excuse my writing style, its teh best that i can do and i am not
pointing fingures, i hope i am saying what i think that i am saying.

we as a group as a society need to remember so that we won;t repeat our
past mistakes, current wisdom comes to us from/by learning the lessons
that our history/events have teh capacity to teach, us, .. at least those
that (are willing to) learn. 

most kind regards

jonathan

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