From nick at rogness.net Wed Sep 2 21:44:04 2009 From: nick at rogness.net (Nick Rogness) Date: Wed Sep 2 21:44:13 2009 Subject: Server Uptime Message-ID: We have recently decommissioned a web server which was running FreeBSD 4.11 on a HP DL380 G3. It was hosting websites for over 20,000 subscribers and was rarely idle for any length of time. The uptime achieved when we powered it down was 1004 days, 1 hour, 34 minutes, 56 seconds. One of our tech's took a snapshot of the shutdown screen with his cellphone and is available at http://freebsd.rogness.net/uptime.jpg if interested. Yet another example of the stability and reliability of FreeBSD!! Thanks for all the great work! Nick Rogness nick@rogness.net From mailing at ekomedya.com Thu Sep 10 15:18:51 2009 From: mailing at ekomedya.com (=?utf-8?Q?Eko_Bilgisayar_ve_=C4=B0leti=C5=9Fim_Hizmetleri_Ltd=2E_=C5=9Eti?=) Date: Thu Sep 10 15:20:22 2009 Subject: Turkey Calling You To Visit - The Trade SHOW- In Las Vegas Message-ID: <2bb4939662f6d7eb454f585e014eb63b@localhost.localdomain> [http://www.turkeycalling.us] [http://www.turkeycalling.us] [http://www.turkeycalling.us] [http://www.turkeycalling.us/turkey-fam/turkeyfam.htm] Global Access Travel invites you to the Tradeshow in Las Vegas on September 13-15, 2009. Please visit us to get more information about our organization and services at our booth. If you fill the registration form or leave the business card when you visit us at our booth, you might be lucky visitor who is going to win our daily draw prize; Free inspection trip to Turkey. Yasal Uyar?; Bu e-posta, sadece adreste belirtilen kisi veya kurulusun kullanimini hedeflemekte olup,mesajda yer alan bilgiler kisiye ozel ve gizli olabilir, yasalar ya da anlasmalar geregi ?c?nc? kisiler ile paylasilmasi m?mk?n olmayabilir.Mesaji alan kisi, mesajin g?nderilmek istendigi kisi veya kurulus degilse,bu mesaji yaymak,dagitmak veya kopyalamak yasaktir Mesaj tarafiniza yanlislikla ulasmissa l?tfen mesaji geri g?nderiniz ve sisteminizden siliniz. Global Access Travel bu mesajin icerigi ile ilgili olarak hicbir hukuksal sorumlulugu kabul etmez Disclaimer This e-mail communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and that may not be made public by law or agreement. If the recipient of this message is not the intended recipient or entity, you are hereby notified that any further dissemination, distribution or copying of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete it from your system. The Global Access Traveldoes not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. Yasal Uyar?; Bu e-posta, sadece adreste belirtilen kisi veya kurulusun kullanimini hedeflemekte olup,mesajda yer alan bilgiler kisiye ozel ve gizli olabilir, yasalar ya da anlasmalar geregi ?c?nc? kisiler ile paylasilmasi m?mk?n olmayabilir.Mesaji alan kisi, mesajin g?nderilmek istendigi kisi veya kurulus degilse,bu mesaji yaymak,dagitmak veya kopyalamak yasaktir Mesaj tarafiniza yanlislikla ulasmissa l?tfen mesaji geri g?nderiniz ve sisteminizden siliniz. Global Access Travel bu mesajin icerigi ile ilgili olarak hicbir hukuksal sorumlulugu kabul etmez Disclaimer This e-mail communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and that may not be made public by law or agreement. If the recipient of this message is not the intended recipient or entity, you are hereby notified that any further dissemination, distribution or copying of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete it from your system. The Global Access Traveldoes not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. Yasal Uyar?; Bu e-posta, sadece adreste belirtilen kisi veya kurulusun kullanimini hedeflemekte olup,mesajda yer alan bilgiler kisiye ozel ve gizli olabilir, yasalar ya da anlasmalar geregi ?c?nc? kisiler ile paylasilmasi m?mk?n olmayabilir.Mesaji alan kisi, mesajin g?nderilmek istendigi kisi veya kurulus degilse,bu mesaji yaymak,dagitmak veya kopyalamak yasaktir Mesaj tarafiniza yanlislikla ulasmissa l?tfen mesaji geri g?nderiniz ve sisteminizden siliniz. Global Access Travel bu mesajin icerigi ile ilgili olarak hicbir hukuksal sorumlulugu kabul etmez Disclaimer This e-mail communication is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and that may not be made public by law or agreement. If the recipient of this message is not the intended recipient or entity, you are hereby notified that any further dissemination, distribution or copying of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete it from your system. The Global Access Traveldoes not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. This message was sent by: TURKEY CALLING YOU TO VISIT "THE TRADE SHOW" IN LAS VEGAS, N?zhetiye Cad, istanbul, Besiktas 34357, Turkey Manage your subscription: http://app.icontact.com/icp/mmail-mprofile.pl?r=47622539&l=82253&s=3KSI&m=587775&c=305227 From salvatore at oems.ch Mon Sep 14 16:28:35 2009 From: salvatore at oems.ch (Salvatore Albanese) Date: Mon Sep 14 16:28:43 2009 Subject: freebsd-advocacy Digest, Vol 291, Issue 1 References: <20090903120016.3EE0510656C3@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: <29F406CF998C46EBB77D409B1D780D46@OEMSPC01> Greetings all I just replaced a server that was in operation for 4.7 years... Yes FreeBSD is stable and reliable, Just changed it with a new box, next hardware upgrade planned in 5 years! Salvatore Albanese ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:00 PM Subject: freebsd-advocacy Digest, Vol 291, Issue 1 > Send freebsd-advocacy mailing list submissions to > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > freebsd-advocacy-request@freebsd.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > freebsd-advocacy-owner@freebsd.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of freebsd-advocacy digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Server Uptime (Nick Rogness) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 15:11:21 -0600 > From: Nick Rogness > Subject: Server Uptime > To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > We have recently decommissioned a web server which was running FreeBSD > 4.11 on a HP DL380 G3. It was hosting websites for over 20,000 > subscribers and was rarely idle for any length of time. > > The uptime achieved when we powered it down was 1004 days, 1 hour, 34 > minutes, 56 seconds. One of our tech's took a snapshot of the > shutdown screen with his cellphone and is available at > http://freebsd.rogness.net/uptime.jpg if interested. > > Yet another example of the stability and reliability of FreeBSD!! > Thanks for all the great work! > > Nick Rogness > nick@rogness.net > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > End of freebsd-advocacy Digest, Vol 291, Issue 1 > ************************************************ From info at oems.ch Mon Sep 14 16:24:11 2009 From: info at oems.ch (OEMS Sagl) Date: Mon Sep 14 16:34:47 2009 Subject: Fw: Looking for ..a help .. Message-ID: <0F9E4ED9C46A42C1B36DD00823DB8B7B@OEMSPC01> Greetings all, May someone help Fabrizio post this information in the events sections of the Related FreeBSD sites... Thanks a lot Salvatore Albanese ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fabrizio Manfredi" To: "OEMS Sagl" Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:58 AM Subject: Looking for ..a help .. > Hi Salvatore, > > I wrote to freebsd webmaster site last week (o more), for the European > conference on openAFS, I 'd like to see it in the events section, but > they never answer me .. > Probably they didn't understand my English :-) > > Do you know the maintainer of the freebsd site ? Can you help me ? > > > bye manfred > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: openafs2009.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 778172 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-advocacy/attachments/20090914/5b021490/openafs2009-0001.pdf From john_re at fastmail.us Sat Sep 19 10:26:56 2009 From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re) Date: Sat Sep 19 10:27:03 2009 Subject: Sunday 20th Global FreeBSD Mtg via VOIP - BerkeleyTIP - for forwarding Message-ID: <1253356013.28322.1335608849@webmail.messagingengine.com> Get a VOIP headset, Install VOIP client SW, & join the global FreeBSD meeting this Sunday Sept 20, 12N-3P Pacific Daylight Savings Time (UTC-8), 3P-6P Eastern, (7P-10P UTC?) http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance Lots of great, exciting new things for FreeBSD users, as we start Year 2 of the Global FSW GNU(Linux)/BSD, Free HW, Free Culture, TIP meetings: TIP = Talks, Installfest, Project/Programing Party. Educational, Productive, Social. Join with the meeting from your home via VOIP, or create a local meeting at your local college wifi cafe. ===== Quick announcement. We're starting up BTIP year 2, for the 2009-10 school year. http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/home September Videos: Puppet language, Python mystery talks, CampKDE http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos This year 2 we'll be focusing on 1) Inviting UC Berkeley students via poster/flyers 2) Getting local meetings going at California colleges 3) Getting invitations out to more American countries 4) Getting topic groups (OLPC, Python, KDE & GNOME, BSD, Ubuntu, etc) having simultaneous meetings. 5) Improving our VOIP server, perhaps upgrading to FreeSwitch. == Come join the Sept 20 Sunday meeting, get on voip, chat, discuss the videos, work on your own projects & share them with others, help educate students, & help work on the group projects. Join #berkeleytip on irc.freenode.net, & we'll help you get your VOIP HW & SW working. :) Join the mailing lists & say hi, tell us what you are interested in. http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal/?pli=1 You are invited to forward this message anywhere it would be welcomed. :) From rodrigo at bebik.net Mon Sep 21 13:26:20 2009 From: rodrigo at bebik.net (Rodrigo OSORIO (ros)) Date: Mon Sep 21 13:26:27 2009 Subject: EuroBSDCon 2009 pictures Message-ID: <20090921130811.GA5344@hodja.bebik.net> Hi all, After this fantastic week-end in Cambridge (many thanks again for everything), it's time to publish the pictures. I didn't take the time to sort them, so this is for now, the full set of pictures I took. http://www.bebik.net/cgi-bin/album.pl?album=2009EuroBSDCon - rodrigo From saifi.khan at datasynergy.org Tue Sep 22 18:53:03 2009 From: saifi.khan at datasynergy.org (Saifi Khan) Date: Tue Sep 22 18:53:10 2009 Subject: EuroBSDCon 2009 pictures In-Reply-To: <20090921130811.GA5344@hodja.bebik.net> References: <20090921130811.GA5344@hodja.bebik.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, Rodrigo OSORIO (ros) wrote: > Hi all, > > After this fantastic week-end in Cambridge (many thanks again for everything), > it's time to publish the pictures. I didn't take the time to sort them, so > this is for now, the full set of pictures I took. > > http://www.bebik.net/cgi-bin/album.pl?album=2009EuroBSDCon > > - rodrigo > Hi Rodrigo: Thanks, the pictures are awesome. Did you write any blog/tweet about your experiences ? How was the interaction and enthusiasm level at the conference ? thanks Saifi. From rwatson at FreeBSD.org Tue Sep 22 21:46:58 2009 From: rwatson at FreeBSD.org (Robert Watson) Date: Tue Sep 22 21:47:06 2009 Subject: EuroBSDCon 2009 pictures In-Reply-To: References: <20090921130811.GA5344@hodja.bebik.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Sep 2009, Saifi Khan wrote: > Thanks, the pictures are awesome. > > Did you write any blog/tweet about your experiences ? > > How was the interaction and enthusiasm level at the conference ? Probably in appropriate to generalize, but this was the largest ever FreeBSD developer summit in .EU (70 or so attendees), and EuroBSDCon came in around 180 attendees, which is up from last year (don't have precise numbers). Our conference dinner, sponsored by iXsystems, (photos of Clare college in the various collections) was sold out at 150 with a waiting list. We did have some trouble fund-raising for the conference, as a number of companies we approached reported that they currently had travel/conference freezes due to the economy. However, it being a poor economic year that didn't seem to prevent people from having a good time (although it likely did limit attendees from further way). Fairly soon, we should have slides, papers, and audio recordings of many of the sessions on the UKUUG web site, and it looks like the Karlsruhe folk are already warming up for EuroBSDCon 2010 :-). For those of us in the UK, I think this is a good moment to remind ourselves that there is a lot of BSD-related work, BSD-based companies, and BSD development in the UK (especially FreeBSD). I know I chatted with many other folk from the UK who all basically said "you know, we should do this more often", so perhaps this will trigger more regular UK-based BSD events! Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From GedankeZauberer at comcast.net Wed Sep 23 01:21:24 2009 From: GedankeZauberer at comcast.net (Allen) Date: Wed Sep 23 01:21:30 2009 Subject: FreeBSD (How vague can I get? ;) ) Message-ID: <4AB973DA.6010707@comcast.net> Hi list, First, I want to say thank you. To anyone who's ever used FreeBSD, you've either loved it outright, or been in awe. How is it possible that something so complex as an OS can be done without cash to everyone doing it? Now think about this; How can this OS be so much better than one money can buy? I thought about this for a minute before sending this message, and figured why not? Those Credit Card commercials you see on TV always say "Something something, 5 dollars, something something 50 dollars, and something something 300 dollars, getting to do this; Priceless!" Well, let's try this with FreeBSD: A PC from 10 years ago your neighbor tossed in the trash because Vista won't even install on it let alone run slower than someone on a bicycle racing someone in a McLaren F1 because they were using Windows 98 on it and XP crawls on the thing: 0 Dollars A new bottom of the line PC with non onboard video card, but only 16 MBs of Video memory, and two monitors used: 50 dollars An Internet Connection you need anyway these days, about 150 dollars a year... An Epiphany that Microsoft's newest OS is going to cost almost 500 dollars and you can't afford it or the crap you'll be getting on your machine running it and finding FreeBSD, downloading it for free and getting a couple burnable CDs from a friend... PRICELESS! After almost 10 years, from the day I walked into Best Buy here in Michigan, and saw on the shelf Mandrake Linux 7.1 and "The FreeBSD PowerPak" with FreeBSD 4.0 + 6 CD toolkit, + "The Complete FreeBSD" 3.0 book for less than a hundred dollars, I've always been a fan of FreeBSD and how much power I got for so little. Some friends of mine make fun of me for paying for free software saying it's stupid to buy something and spend money on something I can get online, and I continue to buy FreeBSD stuff to help support whenever I can. My last order was over 500 dollars getting FreeBSD on CD-ROM, and a new version of "The Complete FreeBSD" book, The FreeBSD Handbook, and then the newer ones Vol1 and Vol2, and stickers for my Laptop and Desktops, and of course a FreeBSD mouse pad and label pin, and I'm glad I did. I also bought "20 Years of Berkeley Unix" on DVD, with MKM as the speaker. I can say proudly that my Wife thinks he's amazing and wants to go see him talk one day. From saifi.khan at datasynergy.org Wed Sep 23 08:33:31 2009 From: saifi.khan at datasynergy.org (Saifi Khan) Date: Wed Sep 23 08:33:38 2009 Subject: EuroBSDCon 2009 pictures In-Reply-To: References: <20090921130811.GA5344@hodja.bebik.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Sep 2009, Robert Watson wrote: > > On Tue, 22 Sep 2009, Saifi Khan wrote: > > > Thanks, the pictures are awesome. > > > > Did you write any blog/tweet about your experiences ? > > > > How was the interaction and enthusiasm level at the conference ? > > Probably in appropriate to generalize, but this was the largest ever FreeBSD > developer summit in .EU (70 or so attendees), and EuroBSDCon came in around > 180 attendees, which is up from last year (don't have precise numbers). Our > conference dinner, sponsored by iXsystems, (photos of Clare college in the > various collections) was sold out at 150 with a waiting list. > > We did have some trouble fund-raising for the conference, as a number of > companies we approached reported that they currently had travel/conference > freezes due to the economy. However, it being a poor economic year that > didn't seem to prevent people from having a good time (although it likely did > limit attendees from further way). > > Fairly soon, we should have slides, papers, and audio recordings of many of > the sessions on the UKUUG web site, and it looks like the Karlsruhe folk are > already warming up for EuroBSDCon 2010 :-). > > For those of us in the UK, I think this is a good moment to remind ourselves > that there is a lot of BSD-related work, BSD-based companies, and BSD > development in the UK (especially FreeBSD). I know I chatted with many other > folk from the UK who all basically said "you know, we should do this more > often", so perhaps this will trigger more regular UK-based BSD events! > Thanks Robert for the informative mail. Wondering if there is any group photo of FreeBSD dev, something along the lines of http://www.postgresql.org/files/community/conference06/conference_group.jpg Would you know ? Is the BSD-related work in UK, about new product development on BSD platform or a enterprise systems maintenance stuff ? Certainly more events will help promote *BSD, which is a good thing. thanks Saifi. From saifi.khan at datasynergy.org Wed Sep 23 09:04:01 2009 From: saifi.khan at datasynergy.org (Saifi Khan) Date: Wed Sep 23 09:05:50 2009 Subject: FreeBSD positioning Message-ID: Hi: How to position FreeBSD today (2009) among the crowd of Linux distros, OpenSolaris and the rest ? Appreciate if the more experienced *BSD geeks could share their knowledge and observations. thanks Saifi. From rwatson at FreeBSD.org Wed Sep 23 15:10:53 2009 From: rwatson at FreeBSD.org (Robert Watson) Date: Wed Sep 23 15:11:00 2009 Subject: EuroBSDCon 2009 pictures In-Reply-To: <863a6dn1k6.fsf@ds4.des.no> References: <20090921130811.GA5344@hodja.bebik.net> <863a6dn1k6.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Sep 2009, Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: > Saifi Khan writes: >> Wondering if there is any group photo of FreeBSD dev [...] > > You'd have to get all 350 of us in the same place at the same time... I had planned to do a devsummit group photo, but there was so much else going that it got left out. :-) Fortunately, we have lots and lots of photos of the Devsummit in other forms. Robert From des at des.no Wed Sep 23 15:24:29 2009 From: des at des.no (=?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) Date: Wed Sep 23 15:24:36 2009 Subject: EuroBSDCon 2009 pictures In-Reply-To: (Saifi Khan's message of "Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:59:59 +0530 (IST)") References: <20090921130811.GA5344@hodja.bebik.net> Message-ID: <863a6dn1k6.fsf@ds4.des.no> Saifi Khan writes: > Wondering if there is any group photo of FreeBSD dev [...] You'd have to get all 350 of us in the same place at the same time... DES -- Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav - des@des.no From saifi.khan at datasynergy.org Wed Sep 23 16:02:14 2009 From: saifi.khan at datasynergy.org (Saifi Khan) Date: Wed Sep 23 16:02:21 2009 Subject: FreeBSD (How vague can I get? ;) ) In-Reply-To: <4AB973DA.6010707@comcast.net> References: <4AB973DA.6010707@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Sep 2009, Allen wrote: > Hi list, > > First, I want to say thank you. To anyone who's ever used FreeBSD, you've > either loved it outright, or been in awe. How is it possible that something so > complex as an OS can be done without cash to everyone doing it? Now think > about this; How can this OS be so much better than one money can buy? > FreeBSD and *BSD needs some loving and your mail is a wonderful step in that direction. With the support of the community, anything is possible. > I thought about this for a minute before sending this message, and figured why > not? Those Credit Card commercials you see on TV always say "Something > something, 5 dollars, something something 50 dollars, and something something > 300 dollars, getting to do this; Priceless!" > iirc, that sounds like the Standard chartered credit card ad, here in India. > Well, let's try this with FreeBSD: > > A PC from 10 years ago your neighbor tossed in the trash because Vista won't > even install on it let alone run slower than someone on a bicycle racing > someone in a McLaren F1 because they were using Windows 98 on it and XP > crawls on the thing: > > 0 Dollars > > A new bottom of the line PC with non onboard video card, but only 16 MBs of > Video memory, and two monitors used: > > 50 dollars > > An Internet Connection you need anyway these days, about 150 dollars a year... > > An Epiphany that Microsoft's newest OS is going to cost almost 500 dollars and > you can't afford it or the crap you'll be getting on your machine running it > and finding FreeBSD, downloading it for free and getting a couple burnable CDs > from a friend... PRICELESS! > > After almost 10 years, from the day I walked into Best Buy here in Michigan, > and saw on the shelf Mandrake Linux 7.1 and "The FreeBSD PowerPak" with > FreeBSD 4.0 + 6 CD toolkit, + "The Complete FreeBSD" 3.0 book for less than a > hundred dollars, I've always been a fan of FreeBSD and how much power I got > for so little. > > Some friends of mine make fun of me for paying for free software saying it's > stupid to buy something and spend money on something I can get online, and I > continue to buy FreeBSD stuff to help support whenever I can. My last order > was over 500 dollars getting FreeBSD on CD-ROM, and a new version of "The > Complete FreeBSD" book, The FreeBSD Handbook, and then the newer ones Vol1 and > Vol2, and stickers for my Laptop and Desktops, and of course a FreeBSD mouse > pad and label pin, and I'm glad I did. > > I also bought "20 Years of Berkeley Unix" on DVD, with MKM as the speaker. I > can say proudly that my Wife thinks he's amazing and wants to go see him talk > one day. > Wow, unbelievable ! That reads like a teenager's adoration for a rock star ;-) i'd go for Def Leppard. How do you see the *BSD community evolving today ? Is there something that can be done better that makes *BSD capture more mindshare ? i'm a newbie and thank you for your time in advance. thanks Saifi. From saifi.khan at datasynergy.org Wed Sep 23 16:14:58 2009 From: saifi.khan at datasynergy.org (Saifi Khan) Date: Wed Sep 23 16:15:03 2009 Subject: EuroBSDCon 2009 pictures In-Reply-To: <863a6dn1k6.fsf@ds4.des.no> References: <20090921130811.GA5344@hodja.bebik.net> <863a6dn1k6.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Sep 2009, Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: > Saifi Khan writes: > > Wondering if there is any group photo of FreeBSD dev [...] > > You'd have to get all 350 of us in the same place at the same time... > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav - des@des.no > In that case it may be a good idea to start with some group photo and then create a collage of photos that capture as many folks as possible. You may have see photovisi.com photomix.com i'm sure it would be fun if the *BSD community pools in and would also help folks warm up ;-) thanks Saifi. From des at des.no Wed Sep 23 17:09:19 2009 From: des at des.no (=?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) Date: Wed Sep 23 17:09:26 2009 Subject: FreeBSD (How vague can I get? ;) ) In-Reply-To: (Saifi Khan's message of "Wed, 23 Sep 2009 21:28:04 +0530 (IST)") References: <4AB973DA.6010707@comcast.net> Message-ID: <86y6o5lha9.fsf@ds4.des.no> Saifi Khan writes: > Allen writes: > > I thought about this for a minute before sending this message, and > > figured why not? Those Credit Card commercials you see on TV always > > say "Something something, 5 dollars, something something 50 dollars, > > and something something 300 dollars, getting to do this; Priceless!" > iirc, that sounds like the Standard chartered credit card ad, here in > India. It's a series of MasterCard ads. "Some things in life are free. For everything else, there's MasterCard." DES -- Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav - des@des.no From saifi.khan at datasynergy.org Thu Sep 24 15:57:31 2009 From: saifi.khan at datasynergy.org (Saifi Khan) Date: Thu Sep 24 15:57:39 2009 Subject: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? Message-ID: Hi: This is a newbie query. i noticed that there is no Oracle available for FreeBSD http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/database/index.html What could be the reason for that ? thanks Saifi. From jhs at berklix.com Thu Sep 24 17:12:11 2009 From: jhs at berklix.com (Julian H. Stacey) Date: Thu Sep 24 17:12:18 2009 Subject: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: Your message "Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:15:43 +0530." Message-ID: <200909241646.n8OGknoY098643@fire.js.berklix.net> Saifi Khan wrote: > Hi: > > This is a newbie query. > > i noticed that there is no Oracle available for FreeBSD > http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/database/index.html > > What could be the reason for that ? Best ask direct of commercial application vendor Oracle. IE wave money under Oracle's nose & ask to purchase what you want. If Oracle think there's enough profit in it, there's many BSD consultants eg http://berklix.com/consultants/ willing to work. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Mail ASCII plain text not HTML & Base64. http://asciiribbon.org Virused Microsoft PCs cause spam. http://berklix.com/free/ From saifi.khan at datasynergy.org Thu Sep 24 17:18:49 2009 From: saifi.khan at datasynergy.org (Saifi Khan) Date: Thu Sep 24 17:18:56 2009 Subject: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: <200909241646.n8OGknoY098643@fire.js.berklix.net> References: <200909241646.n8OGknoY098643@fire.js.berklix.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Sep 2009, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Saifi Khan wrote: > > Hi: > > > > This is a newbie query. > > > > i noticed that there is no Oracle available for FreeBSD > > http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/database/index.html > > > > What could be the reason for that ? > > Best ask direct of commercial application vendor Oracle. > IE wave money under Oracle's nose & ask to purchase what you want. > > If Oracle think there's enough profit in it, there's many BSD > consultants eg http://berklix.com/consultants/ willing to work. > > Cheers, > Julian > -- i was wondering if there is any technical reason behind this ? thanks Saifi. From jhs at berklix.com Thu Sep 24 17:33:55 2009 From: jhs at berklix.com (Julian H. Stacey) Date: Thu Sep 24 17:34:02 2009 Subject: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: Your message "Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:46:45 +0530." Message-ID: <200909241735.n8OHZMVM099476@fire.js.berklix.net> > > > i noticed that there is no Oracle available for FreeBSD > > > http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/database/index.html > > > > > > What could be the reason for that ? > > > > Best ask direct of commercial application vendor Oracle. > > IE wave money under Oracle's nose & ask to purchase what you want. > > > > If Oracle think there's enough profit in it, there's many BSD > > consultants eg http://berklix.com/consultants/ willing to work. > > > > Cheers, > > Julian > > -- > > i was wondering if there is any technical reason behind this ? Most unlikely. Ask Oracle & tell advocacy@ what you find out. I'd bet perceived market share & demand as ever, ie Money. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Mail ASCII plain text not HTML & Base64. http://asciiribbon.org Virused Microsoft PCs cause spam. http://berklix.com/free/ From kdk at daleco.biz Fri Sep 25 03:01:51 2009 From: kdk at daleco.biz (Kevin Kinsey) Date: Fri Sep 25 03:01:58 2009 Subject: FreeBSD (How vague can I get? ;) ) In-Reply-To: <86y6o5lha9.fsf@ds4.des.no> References: <4AB973DA.6010707@comcast.net> <86y6o5lha9.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: <4ABC2DAB.8010903@daleco.biz> Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: > Saifi Khan writes: >> Allen writes: >>> I thought about this for a minute before sending this message, and >>> figured why not? Those Credit Card commercials you see on TV always >>> say "Something something, 5 dollars, something something 50 dollars, >>> and something something 300 dollars, getting to do this; Priceless!" >> iirc, that sounds like the Standard chartered credit card ad, here in >> India. > > It's a series of MasterCard ads. > > "Some things in life are free. For everything else, there's MasterCard." > > DES Hmm, makes me wonder. Would we get sued for this? "Doing a couple things with computers requires {proprietary software}. For the rest, there's FreeBSD!!!" Kevin Kinsey P.S. "Paddle faster, honey, I'm trolling in shallower water now!" -- Real computer scientists don't comment their code. The identifiers are so long they can't afford the disk space. From GedankeZauberer at comcast.net Fri Sep 25 03:30:42 2009 From: GedankeZauberer at comcast.net (Allen) Date: Fri Sep 25 03:30:48 2009 Subject: FreeBSD (How vague can I get? ;) ) In-Reply-To: <4ABC2DAB.8010903@daleco.biz> References: <4AB973DA.6010707@comcast.net> <86y6o5lha9.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4ABC2DAB.8010903@daleco.biz> Message-ID: <4ABC3842.4010103@comcast.net> Kevin Kinsey wrote: > Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: >> Saifi Khan writes: >>> Allen writes: >>>> I thought about this for a minute before sending this message, and >>>> figured why not? Those Credit Card commercials you see on TV always >>>> say "Something something, 5 dollars, something something 50 dollars, >>>> and something something 300 dollars, getting to do this; Priceless!" >>> iirc, that sounds like the Standard chartered credit card ad, here in >>> India. >> >> It's a series of MasterCard ads. >> >> "Some things in life are free. For everything else, there's MasterCard." >> >> DES > > Hmm, makes me wonder. Would we get sued for this? > > "Doing a couple things with computers requires {proprietary software}. > For the rest, there's FreeBSD!!!" > > Kevin Kinsey > > P.S. "Paddle faster, honey, I'm trolling in shallower water now!" You can't get sued for it ;) The US has a law here that states a parody of something isn't a rip off. which I think was one of the better laws made. That's how Dennis Leary got away with the "Peanuts and Charlie Brown" thing he did without permission since it was a parody. Besides, Visa probably runs BSD on their servers anyway lol. Someone said something or other about me and FreeBSD as a rockstar and said Def Leopard. I don't agree, I think FreeBSD would be more suited with Cannibal Corpse or Slayer, it's way fast ;) From des at des.no Fri Sep 25 10:26:29 2009 From: des at des.no (=?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) Date: Fri Sep 25 10:26:34 2009 Subject: FreeBSD (How vague can I get? ;) ) In-Reply-To: <4ABC3842.4010103@comcast.net> (Allen's message of "Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:25:54 -0400") References: <4AB973DA.6010707@comcast.net> <86y6o5lha9.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4ABC2DAB.8010903@daleco.biz> <4ABC3842.4010103@comcast.net> Message-ID: <867hvnpbfw.fsf@ds4.des.no> Allen writes: > You can't get sued for it ;) The US has a law here that states a > parody of something isn't a rip off. There is no such law, only legal practice, and the US is only a small part of the world. > Besides, Visa probably runs BSD on their servers anyway lol. VISA != MasterCard DES -- Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav - des@des.no From saifi.khan at datasynergy.org Fri Sep 25 12:30:45 2009 From: saifi.khan at datasynergy.org (Saifi Khan) Date: Fri Sep 25 12:30:58 2009 Subject: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: <200909241735.n8OHZMVM099476@fire.js.berklix.net> References: <200909241735.n8OHZMVM099476@fire.js.berklix.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Sep 2009, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > > > i noticed that there is no Oracle available for FreeBSD > > > > http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/database/index.html > > > > > > > > What could be the reason for that ? > > > > > > Best ask direct of commercial application vendor Oracle. > > > IE wave money under Oracle's nose & ask to purchase what you want. > > > > > > If Oracle think there's enough profit in it, there's many BSD > > > consultants eg http://berklix.com/consultants/ willing to work. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Julian > > > -- > > > > i was wondering if there is any technical reason behind this ? > > Most unlikely. Ask Oracle & tell advocacy@ what you find out. > I'd bet perceived market share & demand as ever, ie Money. > Hi Julian: Here is the response on the Oracle forum thread to my posting, """ FreeBSD is a kernel not used in any extant operating system with the sole exception being Apple's Mac OSX so you are heading, full speed ahead, toward disappointment. FreeBSD handles many things very differently from the UNIX System 5 standard so you can not just kludge your way into this. What fascinates me about your request is why you care. FreeBSD is going nowhere at a staggeringly fast pace. And to the same place as went Oracle Database version 8.0. Obscurity. Install Oracle's Enterprise Linux and you will have a real operating system in less time than you've spent monitoring this thead. And as an additional value it will support the Oracle technology stack while you are still young enough to use it. """ and """ IF you can match up the system calls, then you can 'make it work'. """ The relevant links are 1. http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=952076&tstart=0 2. http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=952076&tstart=0 The response seems to suggest that there is some feature used by Oracle which is expected from a UNIX Sys 5 std and perhaps FreeBSD does not support/have the syscall. Given the response, What is your analysis of the situation ? thanks Saifi. From des at des.no Fri Sep 25 12:36:12 2009 From: des at des.no (=?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) Date: Fri Sep 25 12:36:19 2009 Subject: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: (Saifi Khan's message of "Fri, 25 Sep 2009 17:58:18 +0530 (IST)") References: <200909241735.n8OHZMVM099476@fire.js.berklix.net> Message-ID: <86my4jnqv9.fsf@ds4.des.no> Saifi Khan writes: > The response seems to suggest [...] ...nothing except that whoever wrote it has absolutely no idea what they're talking about. DES -- Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav - des@des.no From steve at ibctech.ca Fri Sep 25 13:02:04 2009 From: steve at ibctech.ca (Steve Bertrand) Date: Fri Sep 25 13:02:10 2009 Subject: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: References: <200909241735.n8OHZMVM099476@fire.js.berklix.net> Message-ID: <4ABCBF61.20205@ibctech.ca> Saifi Khan wrote: > On Thu, 24 Sep 2009, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > >>>>> i noticed that there is no Oracle available for FreeBSD >>>>> http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/database/index.html >>>>> >>>>> What could be the reason for that ? >>>> Best ask direct of commercial application vendor Oracle. >>>> IE wave money under Oracle's nose & ask to purchase what you want. >>>> >>>> If Oracle think there's enough profit in it, there's many BSD >>>> consultants eg http://berklix.com/consultants/ willing to work. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Julian >>>> -- >>> i was wondering if there is any technical reason behind this ? >> Most unlikely. Ask Oracle & tell advocacy@ what you find out. >> I'd bet perceived market share & demand as ever, ie Money. >> > > Hi Julian: > > Here is the response on the Oracle forum thread to my posting, > > > """ > FreeBSD is a kernel not used in any extant operating system with > the sole exception being Apple's Mac OSX so you are heading, > full speed ahead, toward disappointment. FreeBSD handles many > things very differently from the UNIX System 5 standard so you > can not just kludge your way into this. > > What fascinates me about your request is why you care. FreeBSD > is going nowhere at a staggeringly fast pace. And to the same > place as went Oracle Database version 8.0. Obscurity. > > Install Oracle's Enterprise Linux and you will have a real > operating system in less time than you've spent monitoring this > thead. And as an additional value it will support the Oracle > technology stack while you are still young enough to use it. > """ > > and > """ > IF you can match up the system calls, then you can 'make it > work'. > """ > > The relevant links are > 1. http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=952076&tstart=0 > 2. http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=952076&tstart=0 > > The response seems to suggest that there is some feature used by > Oracle which is expected from a UNIX Sys 5 std and perhaps > FreeBSD does not support/have the syscall. > > Given the response, What is your analysis of the situation ? That whoever wrote that post is very closed minded, has no problem condemning something prior to investigation, and perhaps wears a pair of glasses that only come in one shade. It makes me very proud to be a member of this great community, where the attitude is more 'get the job done with whatever tool suits the task', as opposed to 'if you don't use this, then forget it'. I completely and utterly disagree with the claims made in that post. I've been using FreeBSD for nearly 10 years, and I vouch for the fact that FreeBSD has made huge strides during that time. Not only is the OS mature, but so are the people who write it, maintain it, and advocate it. Was about to add 'defend it' to the last sentence there, but it's not even necessary. FreeBSD's track record, and the fact that it's used in the most critical of infrastructures proves that FreeBSD merrily holds it's own water, without a word ever needing to be spoken. Steve -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3233 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-advocacy/attachments/20090925/bd1fe4d1/smime.bin From kraduk at googlemail.com Fri Sep 25 13:08:02 2009 From: kraduk at googlemail.com (krad) Date: Fri Sep 25 13:08:09 2009 Subject: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: References: <200909241735.n8OHZMVM099476@fire.js.berklix.net> Message-ID: 2009/9/25 Saifi Khan > On Thu, 24 Sep 2009, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > > > > > i noticed that there is no Oracle available for FreeBSD > > > > > > http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/database/index.html > > > > > > > > > > What could be the reason for that ? > > > > > > > > Best ask direct of commercial application vendor Oracle. > > > > IE wave money under Oracle's nose & ask to purchase what you want. > > > > > > > > If Oracle think there's enough profit in it, there's many BSD > > > > consultants eg http://berklix.com/consultants/ willing to work. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Julian > > > > -- > > > > > > i was wondering if there is any technical reason behind this ? > > > > Most unlikely. Ask Oracle & tell advocacy@ what you find out. > > I'd bet perceived market share & demand as ever, ie Money. > > > > Hi Julian: > > Here is the response on the Oracle forum thread to my posting, > > > """ > FreeBSD is a kernel not used in any extant operating system with > the sole exception being Apple's Mac OSX so you are heading, > full speed ahead, toward disappointment. FreeBSD handles many > things very differently from the UNIX System 5 standard so you > can not just kludge your way into this. > > What fascinates me about your request is why you care. FreeBSD > is going nowhere at a staggeringly fast pace. And to the same > place as went Oracle Database version 8.0. Obscurity. > > Install Oracle's Enterprise Linux and you will have a real > operating system in less time than you've spent monitoring this > thead. And as an additional value it will support the Oracle > technology stack while you are still young enough to use it. > """ > > and > """ > IF you can match up the system calls, then you can 'make it > work'. > """ > > The relevant links are > 1. http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=952076&tstart=0 > 2. http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=952076&tstart=0 > > The response seems to suggest that there is some feature used by > Oracle which is expected from a UNIX Sys 5 std and perhaps > FreeBSD does not support/have the syscall. > > Given the response, What is your analysis of the situation ? > > > thanks > Saifi. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > I have seen a guide on howto get oracle to run on bsd, it did use linux compatibility though. I have to say though the reality of the situation is you are probably best running oracle on solaris with a zfs fs underneath it. Forget the wrongs and rights and what should bes, the reality is you will find everything easier from a comercial support point of view with that combination. From jhs at berklix.com Fri Sep 25 13:43:55 2009 From: jhs at berklix.com (Julian H. Stacey) Date: Fri Sep 25 13:44:02 2009 Subject: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: Your message "Fri, 25 Sep 2009 17:58:18 +0530." Message-ID: <200909251345.n8PDjSUM019919@fire.js.berklix.net> > > Most unlikely. Ask Oracle & tell advocacy@ what you find out. > > I'd bet perceived market share & demand as ever, ie Money. > > Hi Julian: > > Here is the response on the Oracle forum thread to my posting, > > """ > FreeBSD is a kernel not used in any extant operating system with > the sole exception being Apple's Mac OSX so you are heading, ... > Given the response, What is your analysis of the situation ? Hi Saifi, I wrote: > > Best ask direct of commercial application vendor Oracle. > > IE wave money under Oracle's nose & ask to purchase what you want. I meant contact Oracle Inc _Direct_ & ask to purchase licenses for BSD. Not ask a forum of users including the clueless Oracle user you quoted. If you only want to buy a few licenses. Oracle probably won't be interested (unless you convince them you'r a path finder for more purchasers to come); ... but on top of Krad's Solaris approach, if you wanted to try out Oracle, as well as native, you might perhaps try it on a linux or opensolaris within eg FreeBSD/branches/-current/ports/emulators/virtualbox/ (if you try it & get stuck there's an emulators@freebsd list). Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Mail ASCII plain text not HTML & Base64. http://asciiribbon.org Virused Microsoft PCs cause spam. http://berklix.com/free/ From telmnstr at 757.org Fri Sep 25 14:28:21 2009 From: telmnstr at 757.org (telmnstr@757.org) Date: Fri Sep 25 14:28:27 2009 Subject: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: <4ABCBF61.20205@ibctech.ca> References: <200909241735.n8OHZMVM099476@fire.js.berklix.net> <4ABCBF61.20205@ibctech.ca> Message-ID: > That whoever wrote that post is very closed minded, has no problem > condemning something prior to investigation, and perhaps wears a pair of > glasses that only come in one shade. Oracle is an expensive business application that is expected to be VERY reliable. It's expected to have a high end support infrastructure behind it. This is why they limit the number of operating systems to a very specific few, that are backed by companies with a reputation. I'm not vouching for them, but most businesses aren't looking to plunk down $50,000 or $100,000 for a database product for their mission critical application, and run it on something that lacks a commercial support infrastructure behind it. RedHat is the only reason linux has gotten as far as it has in the heavy business and gov't world. > I completely and utterly disagree with the claims made in that post. > I've been using FreeBSD for nearly 10 years, and I vouch for the fact > that FreeBSD has made huge strides during that time. Not only is the OS > mature, but so are the people who write it, maintain it, and advocate it. While it has, it's still lagging. I can't even get a decent shell from the FreeBSD install CD or boot CD. If the installer fails at getting the first package, after you re-enter the information to try again, it seems to pick up on package #2, skipping the first, which is probably the kernel. I took a hiatus(sp) from FreeBSD and when I came back after spending a bunch of time in the Linux world, I noticed some pretty sore things. I'm not hating on BSD, I'm still kind of meh about Linux, but I can see why companies do what they do. A small firm webhosting stuff with MySQL is one thing. Large corporations running mission critical databases is another. I assume Oracle goes through heavy lengths to certify their product on the few OSes they officially support. Probably Solaris, Redhat and their own Linux distro. This is a huge deal to them. Think of it as an appliance. If you hate Linux, help Solaris. Run your oracle on your Solaris system, and hit it from your FreeBSD system. I'd be willing to bet there is little to no commercial demand for Oracle on FreeBSD. Heck, look at all the SGI went through with Oracle, and the rumors were that Oracle ran faster than any other platform on IRIX for a while. Oracle wouldn't release it, maybe becuase Ellison and McNealy are BFF or something. From andrewlylegould at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 15:08:00 2009 From: andrewlylegould at gmail.com (Andrew Gould) Date: Fri Sep 25 15:08:06 2009 Subject: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: References: <200909241735.n8OHZMVM099476@fire.js.berklix.net> <4ABCBF61.20205@ibctech.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 9:28 AM, wrote: > >> That whoever wrote that post is very closed minded, has no problem >> condemning something prior to investigation, and perhaps wears a pair of >> glasses that only come in one shade. > > Oracle is an expensive business application that is expected to be VERY > reliable. It's expected to have a high end support infrastructure behind it. > > This is why they limit the number of operating systems to a very specific > few, that are backed by companies with a reputation. I'm not vouching for > them, but most businesses aren't looking to plunk down $50,000 or $100,000 > for a database product for their mission critical application, and run it on > something that lacks a commercial support infrastructure behind it. > > RedHat is the only reason linux has gotten as far as it has in the heavy > business and gov't world. > >> I completely and utterly disagree with the claims made in that post. >> I've been using FreeBSD for nearly 10 years, and I vouch for the fact >> that FreeBSD has made huge strides during that time. Not only is the OS >> mature, but so are the people who write it, maintain it, and advocate it. > > While it has, it's still lagging. I can't even get a decent shell from the > FreeBSD install CD or boot CD. If the installer fails at getting the first > package, after you re-enter the information to try again, it seems to pick > up on package #2, skipping the first, which is probably the kernel. I took a > hiatus(sp) from FreeBSD and when I came back after spending a bunch of time > in the Linux world, I noticed some pretty sore things. > > I'm not hating on BSD, I'm still kind of meh about Linux, but I can see why > companies do what they do. A small firm webhosting stuff with MySQL is one > thing. Large corporations running mission critical databases is another. > > I assume Oracle goes through heavy lengths to certify their product on the > few OSes they officially support. Probably Solaris, Redhat and their own > Linux distro. This is a huge deal to them. > > Think of it as an appliance. If you hate Linux, help Solaris. Run your > oracle on your Solaris system, and hit it from your FreeBSD system. > > I'd be willing to bet there is little to no commercial demand for Oracle on > FreeBSD. Heck, look at all the SGI went through with Oracle, and the rumors > were that Oracle ran faster than any other platform on IRIX for a while. > Oracle wouldn't release it, maybe becuase Ellison and McNealy are BFF or > something. > ...and this, of course, brings us to the purchase of Sun Microsystems by Oracle. Expect Oracle to put a lot of emphasis on Solaris in the future. From GedankeZauberer at comcast.net Fri Sep 25 15:43:15 2009 From: GedankeZauberer at comcast.net (Allen) Date: Fri Sep 25 15:43:22 2009 Subject: FreeBSD (How vague can I get? ;) ) In-Reply-To: <867hvnpbfw.fsf@ds4.des.no> References: <4AB973DA.6010707@comcast.net> <86y6o5lha9.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4ABC2DAB.8010903@daleco.biz> <4ABC3842.4010103@comcast.net> <867hvnpbfw.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: <4ABCE3F3.2010008@comcast.net> Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: > Allen writes: >> You can't get sued for it ;) The US has a law here that states a >> parody of something isn't a rip off. > > There is no such law, only legal practice, and the US is only a small > part of the world. Yes, but BSD was started in California, and making a parody shouldn't be a problem. I'm pretty sure commercials seen here show up in other parts of the world, I'm not one of those people who thinks there is only one law all over the World. I live right near another country and go there often. >> Besides, Visa probably runs BSD on their servers anyway lol. > > VISA != MasterCard Yea sorry about that it was a typo. I was kind of exhausted when I typed that as it probably shows in how I typed, I hadn't slept well. I'm pretty sure they use BSD too ;) > DES -Allen PS; Your initials are neat, DES, like the encryption, that's awesome heh :) From des at des.no Fri Sep 25 15:56:16 2009 From: des at des.no (=?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) Date: Fri Sep 25 15:56:23 2009 Subject: FreeBSD (How vague can I get? ;) ) In-Reply-To: <4ABCE3F3.2010008@comcast.net> (Allen's message of "Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:38:27 -0400") References: <4AB973DA.6010707@comcast.net> <86y6o5lha9.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4ABC2DAB.8010903@daleco.biz> <4ABC3842.4010103@comcast.net> <867hvnpbfw.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4ABCE3F3.2010008@comcast.net> Message-ID: <86y6o3m31d.fsf@ds4.des.no> Allen writes: > Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: > > Allen writes: > > > You can't get sued for it ;) The US has a law here that states a > > > parody of something isn't a rip off. > > There is no such law, only legal practice, and the US is only a > > small part of the world. > Yes, but BSD was started in California, and making a parody shouldn't > be a problem. If only life were so simple. DES -- Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav - des@des.no From perrin at apotheon.com Fri Sep 25 18:33:09 2009 From: perrin at apotheon.com (Chad Perrin) Date: Fri Sep 25 18:33:15 2009 Subject: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: <200909251345.n8PDjSUM019919@fire.js.berklix.net> References: <200909251345.n8PDjSUM019919@fire.js.berklix.net> Message-ID: <20090925181837.GF28805@guilt.Savvis> On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 03:45:28PM +0200, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > If you only want to buy a few licenses. Oracle probably won't be > interested (unless you convince them you'r a path finder for more > purchasers to come); It doesn't hurt to ask (unless you're bluffing, and they call you on it, I guess). What if you're the 101st to ask, and they finally decided to do something about it? -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 196 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-advocacy/attachments/20090925/fa8fadf2/attachment.pgp From perrin at apotheon.com Fri Sep 25 18:46:53 2009 From: perrin at apotheon.com (Chad Perrin) Date: Fri Sep 25 18:47:01 2009 Subject: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090925181257.GD28805@guilt.Savvis> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 09:15:43PM +0530, Saifi Khan wrote: > > i noticed that there is no Oracle available for FreeBSD > http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/database/index.html I unfortunately don't have anything to offer as a direct answer to that, other than perhaps "Oracle's short-sightedness". I wonder why you ask, though. Do you plan to use Oracle for some specific "real world" purpose? Are you simply trying to learn about Oracle? Are you just curious about the lack of Oracle for FreeBSD? Depending on your reasons for asking, it might be worthwhile to investigate alternatives. FTD apparently found Oracle to fall short of expectations, and EnterpriseDB's variant of PostgreSQL rose to the challenge: http://tinyurl.com/yd9lon5 (I used TinyURL to avoid running afoul of line-wrap, et cetera.) It might be worth looking into. It's easy (relative to most DMBS-to-DBMS migrations) to migrate a database from Oracle to PostgreSQL, too, thanks to substantial feature parity between the two. There's a slightly different write-up of the FTD migration on EnterpriseDB's "success stories" page: http://www.enterprisedb.com/learning/success.do -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 196 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-advocacy/attachments/20090925/fe21c477/attachment.pgp From perrin at apotheon.com Fri Sep 25 18:49:57 2009 From: perrin at apotheon.com (Chad Perrin) Date: Fri Sep 25 18:50:04 2009 Subject: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: References: <200909241735.n8OHZMVM099476@fire.js.berklix.net> <4ABCBF61.20205@ibctech.ca> Message-ID: <20090925181602.GE28805@guilt.Savvis> On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 10:28:20AM -0400, telmnstr@757.org wrote: > > I'd be willing to bet there is little to no commercial demand for Oracle > on FreeBSD. I wonder how much difference Oracle availability on FreeBSD would make, here. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 196 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-advocacy/attachments/20090925/bef8c140/attachment.pgp From GedankeZauberer at comcast.net Fri Sep 25 20:28:16 2009 From: GedankeZauberer at comcast.net (Allen) Date: Fri Sep 25 20:28:22 2009 Subject: FreeBSD gear (Clothes, machines) Message-ID: <4ABD26C0.8050804@comcast.net> I'm wondering how many people here buy FreeBSD stuff. Like for example, I have a FreeBSD teeshirt, a pair of FreeBSD boxers (very comfy by the way) and I also purchase a lot of the things I find about FreeBSD because, quite frankly, the quality of products are very high, and I think Patrick Volkerding of Slackware Linux said it best when he said "If you're trying to learn Linux / Unix, just read the BSD stuff, it doesn't have the PR crap most Linux tech stuff has and gets to the point". I think he's mostly right about that. If you've ever tried reading over some of the Linux stuff other than Slackware, Debian, and some of the SUSE stuff, you've probably noticed it's mostly PR and not very technically and leaves you wondering sometimes why there aren't as many answers. You read FreeBSD, and they have the PR stuff in the PR section, and the tech stuff in the part it should be. I think Slackware and FreeBSD must be pretty close; when I made an order of a Slackware 4 CD-ROM set and a Slackware Mouse Pad, I also the same day ordered a FreeBSD mouse pad, a FreeBSD CD-set, and a copy of EACH of the FreeBSD books you can get on the FreeBSDMall page (It was a big order, I got one of every book they sell except for the third edition of "The Complete FreeBSD because I already had it, so I bought the newer one available) and for the FreeBSD stuff I paid for overnight shipping. I hate waiting a week to get stuff and I really wanted to see what was in the books and see what the CDs were like, so I decided I'd try overnights. I was also not planning on waiting forever for my Slackware Store order either and got second day shipping. I was shocked to see that 17 hours later a huge package was on the porch with not only my FreeBSD stuff, but the Slackware stuff too, in the same box. I only paid overnight on BSD, but got Slackware too. It's like it came from the same place and they noticed I had two orders and paid more for faster shipping. I also noticed that the Slackware CDs and FreeBSD CDs look a lot alike, and that the Slackware Book is a lot like a FreeBSD book (Font and all that are very similar). Are the Slackware store and BSD Mall in the same place? Anyway, I love the books I got. I've read a lot of BSD stuff like NetBSD and OpenBSD, but I've always been very partial to FreeBSD which is in my eyes the better choice. That's why I'm on the Advocacy Mailing List, I like spreading the word. I actually got a phone call the day after my order came from a woman asking of my order arrived OK, because she said one order had come back and they were checking to see if it was mine, so I went over what I ordered with her and she was actually shocked to see how much money I spent and I almost chuckled because it's no where near the first time. I basically said "Hey, as long as some of this gets back to the people who make FreeBSD and it helps them in some way I'll keep making orders of this size. Of course you'll need new products, but I don't mind helping financially when I can". I'm sort of wondering how much of any given order gets back to the people who make FreeBSD, and spend their time doing it. I read somewhere it was a certain percent, so I'm Hoping they do get something back. I'm a persona who stands by what I like. I take crap for it sometimes, we all do or will when we believe in something. When I was in college a few years ago and my Professor was teaching Linux, I made sure my class saw how neat my SUSE, Slackware, and FreeBSD installs looked and how easy they were to make things happen. I also got my teacher to talk about BSD a little more to show everyone there were choices. I also made a card on the board that showed how to do things in BSD VS Linux since there are a few differences here and there. I tried to get a BSD class for the school, but my teacher admitted I knew more about it than he did as he learned his Unix skill on HP-UX and I have always been a more Linux / BSD guy. I wear my Slackware shirt and my FreeBSD tee, and my Slackware and BSD buttons, and I spread the word to people I think may try it out. I also help out with tech stuff in my local area, and I'm also one who offers to install FreeBSD, for free, to anyone who wants. Basically, I do actually go out and not only promote FreeBSD, I help make it happen, and I'm more or less wondering what other things people on here do to get the word out. As Marshall Kirk McKusick said "The Linux guys go out there and they do things and they have more market share, and I think it's important we do the same". I'd love to meet him, he's great. And a damn good speaker. :) -Allen PS; not to sound weird, but does anyone here have any neat hardware configurations? Like a machine running FreeBSD that has like CD/DVD/Tape /Cool hardware you're proud of? Thanks! From matt at ixsystems.com Fri Sep 25 21:05:06 2009 From: matt at ixsystems.com (Matt Olander) Date: Fri Sep 25 21:05:13 2009 Subject: FreeBSD gear (Clothes, machines) In-Reply-To: <4ABD26C0.8050804@comcast.net> References: <4ABD26C0.8050804@comcast.net> Message-ID: <9740caf0909251405oc09d55fx3a886317b1b54e38@mail.gmail.com> Sorry for the top post but I only have some quick comments ;-) Great post, Allen. I'm glad you had a good experience with the mall, Allen. In fact, you are correct, we also host the Slackware site/store for Patrick and handle all the production details and shipping logistics. It's better for everyone if Patrick can focus on what he does best, which is continuing to develop one of the few linux distros that we'll recommend and support for linux users. The mall is a division of iXsystems and we try and contribute back to FreeBSD in a variety of ways. You can see from the Foundation sponsors page that not only does the FreeBSD Mall contribute but iXsystems contributes separately as well (and some of the employees individually, too!): http://freebsdfoundation.org/donate/sponsors.shtml We also do other things like establish a FreeBSD presence at tradeshows, sponsor specific development projects, employ a few people to work on FreeBSD, etc. Keep enjoying the best operating system on the planet and spreading the word like you have been! best, -matt PS - I love my BSD boxers :-D On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Allen wrote: > I'm wondering how many people here buy FreeBSD stuff. Like for example, I > have a FreeBSD teeshirt, a pair of FreeBSD boxers (very comfy by the way) > and I also purchase a lot of the things I find about FreeBSD because, quite > frankly, the quality of products are very high, and I think Patrick > Volkerding of Slackware Linux said it best when he said "If you're trying to > learn Linux / Unix, just read the BSD stuff, it doesn't have the PR crap > most Linux tech stuff has and gets to the point". I think he's mostly right > about that. If you've ever tried reading over some of the Linux stuff other > than Slackware, Debian, and some of the SUSE stuff, you've probably noticed > it's mostly PR and not very technically and leaves you wondering sometimes > why there aren't as many answers. You read FreeBSD, and they have the PR > stuff in the PR section, and the tech stuff in the part it should be. > > I think Slackware and FreeBSD must be pretty close; when I made an order of > a Slackware 4 CD-ROM set and a Slackware Mouse Pad, I also the same day > ordered a FreeBSD mouse pad, a FreeBSD CD-set, and a copy of EACH of the > FreeBSD books you can get on the FreeBSDMall page (It was a big order, I got > one of every book they sell except for the third edition of "The Complete > FreeBSD because I already had it, so I bought the newer one available) and > for the FreeBSD stuff I paid for overnight shipping. I hate waiting a week > to get stuff and I really wanted to see what was in the books and see what > the CDs were like, so I decided I'd try overnights. > > I was also not planning on waiting forever for my Slackware Store order > either and got second day shipping. I was shocked to see that 17 hours later > a huge package was on the porch with not only my FreeBSD stuff, but the > Slackware stuff too, in the same box. I only paid overnight on BSD, but got > Slackware too. It's like it came from the same place and they noticed I had > two orders and paid more for faster shipping. > > I also noticed that the Slackware CDs and FreeBSD CDs look a lot alike, and > that the Slackware Book is a lot like a FreeBSD book (Font and all that are > very similar). Are the Slackware store and BSD Mall in the same place? > > Anyway, I love the books I got. I've read a lot of BSD stuff like NetBSD and > OpenBSD, but I've always been very partial to FreeBSD which is in my eyes > the better choice. That's why I'm on the Advocacy Mailing List, I like > spreading the word. > > I actually got a phone call the day after my order came from a woman asking > of my order arrived OK, because she said one order had come back and they > were checking to see if it was mine, so I went over what I ordered with her > and she was actually shocked to see how much money I spent and I almost > chuckled because it's no where near the first time. I basically said "Hey, > as long as some of this gets back to the people who make FreeBSD and it > helps them in some way I'll keep making orders of this size. Of course > you'll need new products, but I don't mind helping financially when I can". > > I'm sort of wondering how much of any given order gets back to the people > who make FreeBSD, and spend their time doing it. I read somewhere it was a > certain percent, so I'm Hoping they do get something back. > > I'm a persona who stands by what I like. I take crap for it sometimes, we > all do or will when we believe in something. When I was in college a few > years ago and my Professor was teaching Linux, I made sure my class saw how > neat my SUSE, Slackware, and FreeBSD installs looked and how easy they were > to make things happen. > > I also got my teacher to talk about BSD a little more to show everyone there > were choices. I also made a card on the board that showed how to do things > in BSD VS Linux since there are a few differences here and there. > > I tried to get a BSD class for the school, but my teacher admitted I knew > more about it than he did as he learned his Unix skill on HP-UX and I have > always been a more Linux / BSD guy. I wear my Slackware shirt and my FreeBSD > tee, and my Slackware and BSD buttons, and I spread the word to people I > think may try it out. > > I also help out with tech stuff in my local area, and I'm also one who > offers to install FreeBSD, for free, to anyone who wants. > > Basically, I do actually go out and not only promote FreeBSD, I help make it > happen, and I'm more or less wondering what other things people on here do > to get the word out. > > As Marshall Kirk McKusick said "The Linux guys go out there and they do > things and they have more market share, and I think it's important we do the > same". I'd love to meet him, he's great. And a damn good speaker. :) > > -Allen > > PS; not to sound weird, but does anyone here have any neat hardware > configurations? Like a machine running FreeBSD that has like CD/DVD/Tape > /Cool hardware you're proud of? Thanks! > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From GedankeZauberer at comcast.net Fri Sep 25 22:31:36 2009 From: GedankeZauberer at comcast.net (Allen) Date: Fri Sep 25 22:31:42 2009 Subject: FreeBSD gear (Clothes, machines) In-Reply-To: <9740caf0909251405oc09d55fx3a886317b1b54e38@mail.gmail.com> References: <4ABD26C0.8050804@comcast.net> <9740caf0909251405oc09d55fx3a886317b1b54e38@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ABD43A9.8030608@comcast.net> Matt Olander wrote: > Sorry for the top post but I only have some quick comments ;-) > > Great post, Allen. I'm glad you had a good experience with the mall, > Allen. In fact, you are correct, we also host the Slackware site/store > for Patrick and handle all the production details and shipping > logistics. It's better for everyone if Patrick can focus on what he > does best, which is continuing to develop one of the few linux distros > that we'll recommend and support for linux users. I was wondering about that ;) I kept noticing how the first Slackware book looked a lot like "The Complete FreeBSD" third edition, in terms of font and the overall design and thought "oh neat, well Pat seems like BSD maybe he liked that" but that's awesome you guys do that too. I'm glad I know now, it made sense to me now when I was emailing to ask a question the first time I ordered something. I had never made an order before so I was emailing someone to see how long it normally takes, and if there was anything a new customer should know, and everyone has always been very nice, very kind, and very helpful, and I liked the experience overall, so once I got my order I took a few pics and sent them to the Slackware and BSD loving friends and told them that it was not only fast on delivery but that I got everything in the same day and everything looked good and that I recommended them. The only time I ever had a problem, was when I ordered a DVD (20 Years of Berkeley Unix) and they more than went out of the way to help me out. They had a shipping error or ran out of stock, something that happens normally, it wasn't some big deal, but to make up for it I got a bunch of BSD stickers for free and thought it was a very kinf gesture since the order wasn't as big as the others and they showed me that even a small order matters to them, so I was very happy and wrote a quick review up and again recommended that everyone order something from there. I also said the stickers were very nice, and my laptop to this day is covered in them in a collage of BSD stickers and my monitors and PCs all have one too. I like them :) > The mall is a division of iXsystems and we try and contribute back to > FreeBSD in a variety of ways. You can see from the Foundation sponsors > page that not only does the FreeBSD Mall contribute but iXsystems > contributes separately as well (and some of the employees > individually, too!): > http://freebsdfoundation.org/donate/sponsors.shtml I think that was what I had read, I was happy to see something gets back to the people who put this stuff out there without asking for a dime in return, so I like making orders to show people this stuff not only works but that the people designing it have taste :) > We also do other things like establish a FreeBSD presence at > tradeshows, sponsor specific development projects, employ a few people > to work on FreeBSD, etc. I've wanted to go to a BSD booth for so long! Rarely do we see those in Michigan ;) But I'd for sure go! > Keep enjoying the best operating system on the planet and spreading > the word like you have been! > > best, > -matt > > PS - I love my BSD boxers :-D Thanks for the info! And I plan on fully continuing my help with getting people used to the idea that you don't have to run an OS where you can't customize a Kernel. Or one where you can actually get uptime when you need a server that doesn't have time to reboot heh. I go to colleges around here like I was saying and I did manage to not only get my teachers and staff of the college to look at BSD as a way of making things go, but I also pointed out the roots of BSD and how nice it would be if they started pointing out that a REAL Unix OS would probably benefit the other students, and of course there was sources for the programmers, and how it was totally free. I tried talking them into ordering a box of CDs from the site and that I'd volunteer to install, but instead they had to just download since the admin is a Windows guy lol. I did do the installs though and even put it on some personal Desktops of a few teachers who gave me extra credit for it. I do what I can t help out, I'm not a programmer, and I'm not a Millionaire, but when I do have money extras, do what I can to buy things I can get free. It's to me a lot like an MP3 or OGG file you download; You can download this music, for free, though most bands don't like that, some don't mind, but they also make their living doing this, so if you like the music you may wanna buy something or go to shows and pay for tickets, because they don't have another job normally. So I generally buy CDs, shirts, everything, and I also help write installation guides because some people think a text based installer means a hard to use one, which In don't agree with. I Love the FreeBSD installer, and the Slackware install, and I've written docs to do both, and even dual boot docs and got published for that one. Sorry about message length, I'm really talkative today it seems lol. Anyway, thanks again, and I too think those BSD boxers are amazing! Nothing says sleek geek like BSD boxer shorts lol. - Allen From saifi.khan at datasynergy.org Sat Sep 26 06:29:26 2009 From: saifi.khan at datasynergy.org (Saifi Khan) Date: Sat Sep 26 06:29:32 2009 Subject: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: <20090925181257.GD28805@guilt.Savvis> References: <20090925181257.GD28805@guilt.Savvis> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Sep 2009, Chad Perrin wrote: > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 09:15:43PM +0530, Saifi Khan wrote: > > > > i noticed that there is no Oracle available for FreeBSD > > http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/database/index.html > > I unfortunately don't have anything to offer as a direct answer to that, > other than perhaps "Oracle's short-sightedness". > > I wonder why you ask, though. Do you plan to use Oracle for some > specific "real world" purpose? Are you simply trying to learn about > Oracle? Are you just curious about the lack of Oracle for FreeBSD? > Here is some background to help you understand the requirement: i was conducting a system administration session for some IT admins and managers, here in Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh, INDIA. One of the folks has a PostgreSQL on FreeBSD setup running since last 4 yrs without any issues. They have recently received Oracle database server and need to set up on Windows 2003 server. Since the folks have prior experience with FreeBSD it seemed logical to try and setup Oracle on FreeBSD on IBM x-series server. i was particularly interested since the acquisition dataset growth rate was like 30-50 GB per week, stored on a SAN. thanks Saifi. From saifi.khan at datasynergy.org Sat Sep 26 07:00:31 2009 From: saifi.khan at datasynergy.org (Saifi Khan) Date: Sat Sep 26 07:00:37 2009 Subject: Why no SAP nor DB2 on FreeBSD ? Message-ID: Hi all: In continuation of my investigation of Oracle, i also noticed that there is: . no SAP for FreeBSD . no DB2 for FreeBSD . no Sybase ASE for FreeBSD . no Informix for FreeBSD Discouing PostgreSql installations, effectively enterprise database setups have given FreeBSD a miss. What could be reason for this ? thanks Saifi. From tonyt at logyst.com Sat Sep 26 07:26:12 2009 From: tonyt at logyst.com (Tony Theodore) Date: Sat Sep 26 07:26:20 2009 Subject: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: References: <20090925181257.GD28805@guilt.Savvis> Message-ID: <22166b750909252353uf0bfb33if51eb16a6d202e4a@mail.gmail.com> > Since the folks have prior experience with FreeBSD it seemed > logical to try and setup Oracle on FreeBSD on IBM x-series > server. > > Did you try the linux compatibility setup? It's for a much older version, but might be interesting to play with at least. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/handbook/linuxemu-oracle.html Tony From marius at nuenneri.ch Sat Sep 26 10:12:25 2009 From: marius at nuenneri.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Marius_N=FCnnerich?=) Date: Sat Sep 26 10:15:05 2009 Subject: Why no SAP nor DB2 on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 08:57, Saifi Khan wrote: > Hi all: > > In continuation of my investigation of Oracle, i also noticed > that there is: > ?. no SAP for FreeBSD > ?. no DB2 for FreeBSD > ?. no Sybase ASE for FreeBSD > ?. no Informix for FreeBSD > > Discouing PostgreSql installations, effectively enterprise > database setups have given FreeBSD a miss. > What could be reason for this ? Same answer as last time: Please ask the respective vendors and report back. From jhs at berklix.com Sat Sep 26 11:12:02 2009 From: jhs at berklix.com (Julian H. Stacey) Date: Sat Sep 26 11:12:09 2009 Subject: FreeBSD gear (Clothes, machines) In-Reply-To: Your message "Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:23:28 EDT." <4ABD26C0.8050804@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200909261101.n8QB0uG3037251@fire.js.berklix.net> Allen wrote: > PS; not to sound weird, but does anyone here have any neat hardware > configurations? Like a machine running FreeBSD that has like CD/DVD/Tape > /Cool hardware you're proud of? Thanks! http://berklix.com/scanjet/ FreeBSD inside a scanner. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Mail ASCII plain text not HTML & Base64. http://asciiribbon.org Virused Microsoft PCs cause spam. http://berklix.com/free/ From GedankeZauberer at comcast.net Sat Sep 26 18:05:50 2009 From: GedankeZauberer at comcast.net (Allen) Date: Sat Sep 26 18:05:57 2009 Subject: FreeBSD gear (Clothes, machines) In-Reply-To: <200909261101.n8QB0uG3037251@fire.js.berklix.net> References: <200909261101.n8QB0uG3037251@fire.js.berklix.net> Message-ID: <4ABE56E0.5090303@comcast.net> Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Allen wrote: >> PS; not to sound weird, but does anyone here have any neat hardware >> configurations? Like a machine running FreeBSD that has like CD/DVD/Tape >> /Cool hardware you're proud of? Thanks! > > http://berklix.com/scanjet/ FreeBSD inside a scanner. > > Cheers, > Julian OK now THAT is awesome ! Heh, it's neat to think that someone sat there one day and thought "Why the hell am I running scanner software that can't even be updated anymore? Hmm, BSD!" wow... I'm still waiting on the NetBSD Oven, but hey lol. I'd much rather have FreeBSD on my oven, at least then I'd know it works better. ;) Thank you for that, I'm reading up on it right now and showed my Wife who also thought it was cool. (She does in fact know Unix pretty well so She knows what BSD is). Now that my installation of like 200 more tools for WindowMaker and themes for it is done, I can read it without a load average getting up there (This machine is super old, like 10 years almost... Still works good as long as I don't try to push my luck). Anyway,thanks again :) -Allen From des at des.no Sat Sep 26 20:55:23 2009 From: des at des.no (=?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) Date: Sat Sep 26 20:55:29 2009 Subject: Why no SAP nor DB2 on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: ("Marius =?utf-8?Q?N=C3=BCnnerich=22's?= message of "Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:50:10 +0200") References: Message-ID: <86ljk1h1dy.fsf@ds4.des.no> Marius N?nnerich writes: > Saifi Khan writes: > > Discouing PostgreSql installations, effectively enterprise database > > setups have given FreeBSD a miss. What could be reason for this ? > Same answer as last time: Please ask the respective vendors and report back. Furthermore, if there is a Linux version, try running it on FreeBSD, and if it doesn't work, raise the issue on the mailing lists and / or submit a PR so we can improve our Linux compatibility. DES -- Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav - des@des.no From jhs at berklix.com Sat Sep 26 21:39:32 2009 From: jhs at berklix.com (Julian H. Stacey) Date: Sat Sep 26 21:39:39 2009 Subject: FreeBSD gear (Clothes, machines) In-Reply-To: Your message "Sat, 26 Sep 2009 14:01:04 EDT." <4ABE56E0.5090303@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200909262141.n8QLfYeX044527@fire.js.berklix.net> Hi, > From: Allen Allen wrote: > >> PS; not to sound weird, but does anyone here have any neat hardware > >> configurations? Like a machine running FreeBSD that has like CD/DVD/Tape > >> /Cool hardware you're proud of? Thanks! > > > > http://berklix.com/scanjet/ FreeBSD inside a scanner. > > OK now THAT is awesome ! Heh, it's neat to think that someone sat there > one day and thought "Why the hell am I running scanner software that > can't even be updated anymore? Hmm, BSD!" wow... Well, 2 chaps at a German University did Linux first, then David Malone did FreeBSD, but in essence, Yes :-) People are encouraged to click & glance at the photo, then if one turns up some time in company junk room, rescue it. Companies find the original NT software useless, but the sheet feader + scanner + BSD inside works well. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Mail ASCII plain text not HTML & Base64. http://asciiribbon.org Virused Microsoft PCs cause spam. http://berklix.com/free/ From saifi.khan at datasynergy.org Sun Sep 27 05:43:04 2009 From: saifi.khan at datasynergy.org (Saifi Khan) Date: Sun Sep 27 05:43:11 2009 Subject: Why no SAP nor DB2 on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Sep 2009, Marius N?nnerich wrote: > On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 08:57, Saifi Khan wrote: > > Hi all: > > > > In continuation of my investigation of Oracle, i also noticed > > that there is: > > . no SAP for FreeBSD > > . no DB2 for FreeBSD > > . no Sybase ASE for FreeBSD > > . no Informix for FreeBSD > > > > Discouing PostgreSql installations, effectively enterprise > > database setups have given FreeBSD a miss. > > What could be reason for this ? > > Same answer as last time: Please ask the respective vendors and report back. > This cannot be accidental. So this time, i've taken a two-pronged approach. 1. checking information on vendor sites and with contacts. 2. close analysis of discussions on freebsd-hackers during 2003-2005 time frame. thanks Saifi. From utisoft at googlemail.com Sun Sep 27 19:54:29 2009 From: utisoft at googlemail.com (Chris Rees) Date: Sun Sep 27 19:54:35 2009 Subject: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: References: <200909241735.n8OHZMVM099476@fire.js.berklix.net> Message-ID: 2009/9/25 Saifi Khan : > On Thu, 24 Sep 2009, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > >> > > > i noticed that there is no Oracle available for FreeBSD >> > > > http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/database/index.html >> > > > >> > > > What could be the reason for that ? >> > > >> > > Best ask direct of commercial application vendor Oracle. >> > > IE wave money under Oracle's nose & ask to purchase what you want. >> > > >> > > If Oracle think there's enough profit in it, there's many BSD >> > > consultants eg http://berklix.com/consultants/ willing to work. >> > > >> > > Cheers, >> > > Julian >> > > -- >> > >> > i was wondering if there is any technical reason behind this ? >> >> Most unlikely. Ask Oracle & tell advocacy@ what you find out. >> I'd bet perceived market share & demand as ever, ie Money. >> > > Hi Julian: > > Here is the response on the Oracle forum thread to my posting, > > > """ > FreeBSD is a kernel not used in any extant operating system with > the sole exception being Apple's Mac OSX so you are heading, > full speed ahead, toward disappointment. And this is where he gives away that he knows nothing about it. In the first sentence, he shows that he thinks that Mac OS X uses the FreeBSD kernel. (Which is wrong, in case you were wondering http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system) ) > FreeBSD handles many > things very differently from the UNIX System 5 standard so you > can not just kludge your way into this. What? > > What fascinates me about your request is why you care. FreeBSD > is going nowhere at a staggeringly fast pace. And to the same > place as went Oracle Database version 8.0. Obscurity. What? > > Install Oracle's Enterprise Linux and you will have a real > operating system in less time than you've spent monitoring this > thead. And as an additional value it will support the Oracle > technology stack while you are still young enough to use it. > """ > > and > """ > IF you can match up the system calls, then you can 'make it > work'. > """ > > The relevant ?links are > 1. ?http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=952076&tstart=0 > 2. ?http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=952076&tstart=0 > > The response seems to suggest that there is some feature used by > Oracle which is expected from a UNIX Sys 5 std and perhaps > FreeBSD does not support/have the syscall. > > Given the response, What is your analysis of the situation ? > > > thanks > Saifi. > This guy replying to your post was a troll, basically. Ignore him, and concentrate on real Oracle employees for sources. Of course, if this was an Oracle employee, then you really should think about using some different software.... Chris -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in a mailing list? From corky1951 at comcast.net Sun Sep 27 21:22:55 2009 From: corky1951 at comcast.net (Charlie Kester) Date: Sun Sep 27 21:23:01 2009 Subject: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: References: <200909241735.n8OHZMVM099476@fire.js.berklix.net> Message-ID: <20090927210934.GA85077@comcast.net> On Sun 27 Sep 2009 at 12:25:50 PDT Chris Rees wrote: >This guy replying to your post was a troll, basically. Ignore him, and Yep. It shows that some Linux fans are just as prone to creating FUD as their adversaries in the Windows world. I'd like to think the BSD community is better than that. From GedankeZauberer at comcast.net Sun Sep 27 22:29:10 2009 From: GedankeZauberer at comcast.net (Allen) Date: Sun Sep 27 22:29:16 2009 Subject: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: <20090927210934.GA85077@comcast.net> References: <200909241735.n8OHZMVM099476@fire.js.berklix.net> <20090927210934.GA85077@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4ABFE303.8050104@comcast.net> Charlie Kester wrote: > On Sun 27 Sep 2009 at 12:25:50 PDT Chris Rees wrote: >> This guy replying to your post was a troll, basically. Ignore him, and > > Yep. It shows that some Linux fans are just as prone to creating FUD as > their adversaries in the Windows world. > > I'd like to think the BSD community is better than that. I use Linux, I don't do this kind of thing because I use both. I have a machine with FreeBSD on it dual booting Windows 98 SE (So I can play Magic: The Gathering; Spells of the Ancients, and some other stuff) and then I have a Debian box, and another Debian machine dual booting with Windows XP, and my Laptop dual boots Slackware 13.0 and Windows XP, and then on my Wife's Laptop is Windows XP, and OpenSUSE. My FTP server PC runs Slackware 12.2. I use both Linux and BSD because I like both, and anyone who says Linux is better is sadly mistaken, they both are great :) From mv at thebeastie.org Mon Sep 28 02:55:42 2009 From: mv at thebeastie.org (Michael Vince) Date: Mon Sep 28 02:55:50 2009 Subject: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: References: <200909241735.n8OHZMVM099476@fire.js.berklix.net> Message-ID: <4AC02164.7040201@thebeastie.org> On 25/09/2009 10:28 PM, Saifi Khan wrote: > On Thu, 24 Sep 2009, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > >>>>> i noticed that there is no Oracle available for FreeBSD >>>>> http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/database/index.html >>>>> >>>>> What could be the reason for that ? >>>>> >>>> Best ask direct of commercial application vendor Oracle. >>>> IE wave money under Oracle's nose& ask to purchase what you want. >>>> >>>> If Oracle think there's enough profit in it, there's many BSD >>>> consultants eg http://berklix.com/consultants/ willing to work. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Julian >>>> -- >>>> >>> i was wondering if there is any technical reason behind this ? >>> >> Most unlikely. Ask Oracle& tell advocacy@ what you find out. >> I'd bet perceived market share& demand as ever, ie Money. >> >> > Hi Julian: > > Here is the response on the Oracle forum thread to my posting, > > > """ > FreeBSD is a kernel not used in any extant operating system with > the sole exception being Apple's Mac OSX so you are heading, > The reality is that Oracle is meant to be a very expensive solution for companies that don't know what to do. This makes Red Hat etc an ideal contender for this situation as it promises full enterprise support. Whether it is the truth or if its even a good solution is completely irreverent to these 2 tech companies because at the end of the day they are just trying to make money and please the stock holders. We have bought the occasional Dell server with Enterprise Red Hat and found all sorts of weird little problems. My preferred story was the Perl that RHE came with was bleeding edge (for the time of release) which at first looked nice. But when I discovered my FreeBSD laptop could parse a 500meg log file 4 times faster then the quad core RHE Dell server I know something was wrong. It was just the version Perl that RHE decided to package up the distribution with. I ended up having to build a later version into /usr/local and everything was fine. But is this really a good solution? Was this worthy of the word enterprise? absolutely not, I mean its not a big deal to build a second Perl into /usr/local on RHE but FreeBSD ports seems like a far cleaner and professional solution if you ask me, just because its not point and click friendly shouldn't be some kind of excuse, to me its and clean and pure as I could dream. We hired a person directly from Oracle full time to build a new database project on Oracle. After it was all built and been using it for about 2 years I just thought it was a bit of a disgrace. Oracle is brittle, unreliable and expensive. We had FreeBSD+MySQL along side it the whole time and it was just so much more reliable and faster for the same amount of hardware. Oracle by packaged design is meant to encourage a comparatively massive amount of hardware investment compared to what could be achieved with MySQL and FreeBSD. I think it is just as much about masking its crap performance then any other argument. I think Oracle is a about of system of making money out of false beliefs, it takes full advantage of corporate companies conservative beliefs and is probably only the reasonable solution for at best 5% of the companies it lives at, its all a matter of opinion which would be argued more from how much money a set of individuals are making out of it over a better technical solution. Some how Oracle want people to believe that a few 100's thousand dollars for their software is vastly superior to any other DB in the world is just nonsense. There is not any other mass scale pieces of software that most company's need where there is some how a magically vastly superior solution. There is no single/few license $100,000 operating system, no single/few license $100,000 excel, no single/few license $100,000 web server. I guess what I am saying at the end of this is that if you can avoid Oracle that is great, I fully recommend you do. Just because you can buy MySQL Enterprise Server far more cheaply and install/deploy it far more easily on more different platforms isn't something to be suspicious about, its just a better software solution and I recommend you take full advantage of it while you still can. From ivoras at freebsd.org Mon Sep 28 09:05:56 2009 From: ivoras at freebsd.org (Ivan Voras) Date: Mon Sep 28 09:06:14 2009 Subject: Why no SAP nor DB2 on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Saifi Khan wrote: > Hi all: > > In continuation of my investigation of Oracle, i also noticed > that there is: > . no SAP for FreeBSD > . no DB2 for FreeBSD > . no Sybase ASE for FreeBSD > . no Informix for FreeBSD > > Discouing PostgreSql installations, effectively enterprise > database setups have given FreeBSD a miss. > What could be reason for this ? An obvious guess would be that the userbase is too small and that makes it unprofitable to support the products on FreeBSD. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-advocacy/attachments/20090928/986fcfbf/signature.pgp From tonyt at logyst.com Mon Sep 28 10:20:26 2009 From: tonyt at logyst.com (Tony Theodore) Date: Mon Sep 28 10:20:32 2009 Subject: Why no SAP nor DB2 on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <22166b750909280320r3356c113l8d54e46279f2742f@mail.gmail.com> 2009/9/28 Ivan Voras > Saifi Khan wrote: > > Hi all: > > > > In continuation of my investigation of Oracle, i also noticed > > that there is: > > . no SAP for FreeBSD > > . no DB2 for FreeBSD > > . no Sybase ASE for FreeBSD > > . no Informix for FreeBSD > > > > Discouing PostgreSql installations, effectively enterprise > > database setups have given FreeBSD a miss. > > What could be reason for this ? > > An obvious guess would be that the userbase is too small and that makes > it unprofitable to support the products on FreeBSD. > > Which then leads the FreeBSD community to give those products a miss and use alternatives, or find ways of running them without vendor support, which further reduces demand. I guess from an advocacy perspective, it's hard to get enthused about this as the alternatives seem more attractive. It's not like hardware drivers that do constrain usage and development. Tony From saifi.khan at datasynergy.org Mon Sep 28 11:32:30 2009 From: saifi.khan at datasynergy.org (Saifi Khan) Date: Mon Sep 28 11:32:37 2009 Subject: Why no SAP nor DB2 on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Sep 2009, Ivan Voras wrote: > Saifi Khan wrote: > > Hi all: > > > > In continuation of my investigation of Oracle, i also noticed > > that there is: > > . no SAP for FreeBSD > > . no DB2 for FreeBSD > > . no Sybase ASE for FreeBSD > > . no Informix for FreeBSD > > > > Discouing PostgreSql installations, effectively enterprise > > database setups have given FreeBSD a miss. > > What could be reason for this ? > > An obvious guess would be that the userbase is too small and that makes > it unprofitable to support the products on FreeBSD. > Thanks for providing the perspective on the issue. Here is a rather straight query, "how do we grow the userbase" ? thanks Saifi. From saifi.khan at datasynergy.org Mon Sep 28 12:07:26 2009 From: saifi.khan at datasynergy.org (Saifi Khan) Date: Mon Sep 28 12:07:32 2009 Subject: 2008 EuroBSDCon PDF and Audio ? Message-ID: Hi: Every year the EuroBSDCon has a new host site and the slides and audio/video seem to go missing after a while. i'm trying to locate the stuff in 2009, about the 2008 EuroBSDCon talks page at http://2008.eurobsdcon.org/talks.html Does anybody know how the various slides and audio/video can be retrieved ? Please excuse me as i am a newbie and was wondering if there is a technical reason for not having the slides and media stuff consolidated at a single site ? Thanks in advance. thanks Saifi. From jhs at berklix.com Mon Sep 28 12:43:47 2009 From: jhs at berklix.com (Julian H. Stacey) Date: Mon Sep 28 12:43:54 2009 Subject: Why no SAP nor DB2 on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: Your message "Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:00:37 +0530." Message-ID: <200909281245.n8SCjlcj065968@fire.js.berklix.net> > Thanks for providing the perspective on the issue. > > Here is a rather straight query, "how do we grow the userbase" ? IMO enough noise. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Mail ASCII plain text not HTML & Base64. http://asciiribbon.org Virused Microsoft PCs cause spam. http://berklix.com/free/ From jhs at berklix.com Mon Sep 28 12:53:12 2009 From: jhs at berklix.com (Julian H. Stacey) Date: Mon Sep 28 12:54:16 2009 Subject: 2008 EuroBSDCon PDF and Audio ? In-Reply-To: Your message "Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:35:30 +0530." Message-ID: <200909281255.n8SCtK8V066238@fire.js.berklix.net> Hi, Reference: > From: Saifi Khan > Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:35:30 +0530 (IST) > Message-id: Saifi Khan wrote: > Hi: > > Every year the EuroBSDCon has a new host site and the slides and > audio/video seem to go missing after a while. > > i'm trying to locate the stuff in 2009, about the 2008 EuroBSDCon > talks page at http://2008.eurobsdcon.org/talks.html > > Does anybody know how the various slides and audio/video can be > retrieved ? > > Please excuse me as i am a newbie and was wondering if there is > a technical reason for not having the slides and media stuff > consolidated at a single site ? [I believe I know the answer to that, but] ... I don't see it does any good for you to ask & get answers on that question via advocay@, 'cos that's not where those responsible could best be Direct contacted to improve things. Please think where you should first direct address your many questions. Dont dump all to advocacy@freebsd.org. eg in this case use the whois command for the domain name @eurobsdcon.org, & First mail there, or to postmaster@eurobsdcon.org or webmaster@eurobsdcon.org Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Mail ASCII plain text not HTML & Base64. http://asciiribbon.org Virused Microsoft PCs cause spam. http://berklix.com/free/ From khatfield at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 13:01:46 2009 From: khatfield at gmail.com (Kevin Hatfield) Date: Mon Sep 28 13:01:54 2009 Subject: freebsd-advocacy Digest, Vol 295, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: <20090928120004.6EAF710656B7@hub.freebsd.org> References: <20090928120004.6EAF710656B7@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: <44843e1b0909280538x217be446q17115d9169c4270c@mail.gmail.com> The simplest most effective way to grow the FreeBSD userbase is indemnification. Large companies that purchase RHEL/SuSE, etc. It's not because they "don't know what they're doing" as someone mentioned above. Most of the large Enterprise RHEL/SUSE contracts come down to indemnification with support being a bonus. Bottom line is that large companies purchase commercial support for three reasons, listed higher priority to lower: 1) Indemnification 2) Support 3) Someone responsible at the end of the day which will provide some sort of SLA. Companies don't want to be sued, they want to be able to get support when needed, and they need someone for the stakeholders to blame if a critical vulnerability is rampant within the business. Open source as a whole has one big issue which is they normally do not have the funds for a legal battle. They also have no *real* responsibility to fix issues. Don't take those things to offense because I'm a huge fan of FreeBSD. Run it on all of my personal business servers. Although, my job at the Enterprise has the requirements stated above. Of course, everyone knows SUSE/RHEL neither really deserve the "status" they have achieved in the Enterprise environment. It all comes down to survival and covering your tail. Just my 2 cents... On 9/28/09, freebsd-advocacy-request@freebsd.org wrote: > Send freebsd-advocacy mailing list submissions to > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > freebsd-advocacy-request@freebsd.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > freebsd-advocacy-owner@freebsd.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of freebsd-advocacy digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? (Chris Rees) > 2. Re: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? (Charlie Kester) > 3. Re: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? (Allen) > 4. Re: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? (Michael Vince) > 5. Re: Why no SAP nor DB2 on FreeBSD ? (Ivan Voras) > 6. Re: Why no SAP nor DB2 on FreeBSD ? (Tony Theodore) > 7. Re: Why no SAP nor DB2 on FreeBSD ? (Saifi Khan) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 20:25:50 +0100 > From: Chris Rees > Subject: Re: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? > To: Saifi Khan > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, "Julian H. Stacey" > , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > 2009/9/25 Saifi Khan : >> On Thu, 24 Sep 2009, Julian H. Stacey wrote: >> >>> > > > i noticed that there is no Oracle available for FreeBSD >>> > > > http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/database/index.html >>> > > > >>> > > > What could be the reason for that ? >>> > > >>> > > Best ask direct of commercial application vendor Oracle. >>> > > IE wave money under Oracle's nose & ask to purchase what you want. >>> > > >>> > > If Oracle think there's enough profit in it, there's many BSD >>> > > consultants eg http://berklix.com/consultants/ willing to work. >>> > > >>> > > Cheers, >>> > > Julian >>> > > -- >>> > >>> > i was wondering if there is any technical reason behind this ? >>> >>> Most unlikely. Ask Oracle & tell advocacy@ what you find out. >>> I'd bet perceived market share & demand as ever, ie Money. >>> >> >> Hi Julian: >> >> Here is the response on the Oracle forum thread to my posting, >> >> >> """ >> FreeBSD is a kernel not used in any extant operating system with >> the sole exception being Apple's Mac OSX so you are heading, >> full speed ahead, toward disappointment. > > And this is where he gives away that he knows nothing about it. In the > first sentence, he shows that he thinks that Mac OS X uses the FreeBSD > kernel. (Which is wrong, in case you were wondering > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system) ) > >> FreeBSD handles many >> things very differently from the UNIX System 5 standard so you >> can not just kludge your way into this. > > What? > >> >> What fascinates me about your request is why you care. FreeBSD >> is going nowhere at a staggeringly fast pace. And to the same >> place as went Oracle Database version 8.0. Obscurity. > > What? > >> >> Install Oracle's Enterprise Linux and you will have a real >> operating system in less time than you've spent monitoring this >> thead. And as an additional value it will support the Oracle >> technology stack while you are still young enough to use it. >> """ >> >> and >> """ >> IF you can match up the system calls, then you can 'make it >> work'. >> """ >> >> The relevant ?links are >> 1. ?http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=952076&tstart=0 >> 2. ?http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=952076&tstart=0 >> >> The response seems to suggest that there is some feature used by >> Oracle which is expected from a UNIX Sys 5 std and perhaps >> FreeBSD does not support/have the syscall. >> >> Given the response, What is your analysis of the situation ? >> >> >> thanks >> Saifi. >> > > > This guy replying to your post was a troll, basically. Ignore him, and > concentrate on real Oracle employees for sources. Of course, if this > was an Oracle employee, then you really should think about using some > different software.... > > Chris > > -- > A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? > A: Top-posting. > Q: What is the most annoying thing in a mailing list? > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:09:35 -0700 > From: Charlie Kester > Subject: Re: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org > Message-ID: <20090927210934.GA85077@comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > On Sun 27 Sep 2009 at 12:25:50 PDT Chris Rees wrote: >>This guy replying to your post was a troll, basically. Ignore him, and > > Yep. It shows that some Linux fans are just as prone to creating FUD as > their adversaries in the Windows world. > > I'd like to think the BSD community is better than that. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:11:15 -0400 > From: Allen > Subject: Re: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? > To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org > Message-ID: <4ABFE303.8050104@comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Charlie Kester wrote: >> On Sun 27 Sep 2009 at 12:25:50 PDT Chris Rees wrote: >>> This guy replying to your post was a troll, basically. Ignore him, and >> >> Yep. It shows that some Linux fans are just as prone to creating FUD as >> their adversaries in the Windows world. >> >> I'd like to think the BSD community is better than that. > > I use Linux, I don't do this kind of thing because I use both. I have a > machine with FreeBSD on it dual booting Windows 98 SE (So I can play > Magic: The Gathering; Spells of the Ancients, and some other stuff) and > then I have a Debian box, and another Debian machine dual booting with > Windows XP, and my Laptop dual boots Slackware 13.0 and Windows XP, and > then on my Wife's Laptop is Windows XP, and OpenSUSE. My FTP server PC > runs Slackware 12.2. I use both Linux and BSD because I like both, and > anyone who says Linux is better is sadly mistaken, they both are great :) > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:37:24 +1000 > From: Michael Vince > Subject: Re: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? > To: Saifi Khan > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, "Julian H. Stacey" > , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Message-ID: <4AC02164.7040201@thebeastie.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 25/09/2009 10:28 PM, Saifi Khan wrote: >> On Thu, 24 Sep 2009, Julian H. Stacey wrote: >> >> >>>>>> i noticed that there is no Oracle available for FreeBSD >>>>>> http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/database/index.html >>>>>> >>>>>> What could be the reason for that ? >>>>>> >>>>> Best ask direct of commercial application vendor Oracle. >>>>> IE wave money under Oracle's nose& ask to purchase what you want. >>>>> >>>>> If Oracle think there's enough profit in it, there's many BSD >>>>> consultants eg http://berklix.com/consultants/ willing to work. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Julian >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>> i was wondering if there is any technical reason behind this ? >>>> >>> Most unlikely. Ask Oracle& tell advocacy@ what you find out. >>> I'd bet perceived market share& demand as ever, ie Money. >>> >>> >> Hi Julian: >> >> Here is the response on the Oracle forum thread to my posting, >> >> >> """ >> FreeBSD is a kernel not used in any extant operating system with >> the sole exception being Apple's Mac OSX so you are heading, >> > The reality is that Oracle is meant to be a very expensive solution for > companies that don't know what to do. This makes Red Hat etc an ideal > contender for this situation as it promises full enterprise support. > Whether it is the truth or if its even a good solution is completely > irreverent to these 2 tech companies because at the end of the day they > are just trying to make money and please the stock holders. > > We have bought the occasional Dell server with Enterprise Red Hat and > found all sorts of weird little problems. My preferred story was the > Perl that RHE came with was bleeding edge (for the time of release) > which at first looked nice. But when I discovered my FreeBSD laptop > could parse a 500meg log file 4 times faster then the quad core RHE Dell > server I know something was wrong. It was just the version Perl that RHE > decided to package up the distribution with. I ended up having to build > a later version into /usr/local and everything was fine. But is this > really a good solution? Was this worthy of the word enterprise? > absolutely not, I mean its not a big deal to build a second Perl into > /usr/local on RHE but FreeBSD ports seems like a far cleaner and > professional solution if you ask me, just because its not point and > click friendly shouldn't be some kind of excuse, to me its and clean and > pure as I could dream. > > We hired a person directly from Oracle full time to build a new database > project on Oracle. After it was all built and been using it for about 2 > years I just thought it was a bit of a disgrace. Oracle is brittle, > unreliable and expensive. We had FreeBSD+MySQL along side it the whole > time and it was just so much more reliable and faster for the same > amount of hardware. > Oracle by packaged design is meant to encourage a comparatively massive > amount of hardware investment compared to what could be achieved with > MySQL and FreeBSD. I think it is just as much about masking its crap > performance then any other argument. > > I think Oracle is a about of system of making money out of false > beliefs, it takes full advantage of corporate companies conservative > beliefs and is probably only the reasonable solution for at best 5% of > the companies it lives at, its all a matter of opinion which would be > argued more from how much money a set of individuals are making out of > it over a better technical solution. > Some how Oracle want people to believe that a few 100's thousand dollars > for their software is vastly superior to any other DB in the world is > just nonsense. > There is not any other mass scale pieces of software that most company's > need where there is some how a magically vastly superior solution. There > is no single/few license $100,000 operating system, no single/few > license $100,000 excel, no single/few license $100,000 web server. > > I guess what I am saying at the end of this is that if you can avoid > Oracle that is great, I fully recommend you do. > > Just because you can buy MySQL Enterprise Server far more cheaply and > install/deploy it far more easily on more different platforms isn't > something to be suspicious about, its just a better software solution > and I recommend you take full advantage of it while you still can. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:49:36 +0200 > From: Ivan Voras > Subject: Re: Why no SAP nor DB2 on FreeBSD ? > To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Saifi Khan wrote: >> Hi all: >> >> In continuation of my investigation of Oracle, i also noticed >> that there is: >> . no SAP for FreeBSD >> . no DB2 for FreeBSD >> . no Sybase ASE for FreeBSD >> . no Informix for FreeBSD >> >> Discouing PostgreSql installations, effectively enterprise >> database setups have given FreeBSD a miss. >> What could be reason for this ? > > An obvious guess would be that the userbase is too small and that makes > it unprofitable to support the products on FreeBSD. > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: signature.asc > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 259 bytes > Desc: OpenPGP digital signature > Url : > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-advocacy/attachments/20090928/986fcfbf/signature-0001.pgp > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:20:23 +1000 > From: Tony Theodore > Subject: Re: Why no SAP nor DB2 on FreeBSD ? > To: Ivan Voras > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org > Message-ID: > <22166b750909280320r3356c113l8d54e46279f2742f@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > 2009/9/28 Ivan Voras > >> Saifi Khan wrote: >> > Hi all: >> > >> > In continuation of my investigation of Oracle, i also noticed >> > that there is: >> > . no SAP for FreeBSD >> > . no DB2 for FreeBSD >> > . no Sybase ASE for FreeBSD >> > . no Informix for FreeBSD >> > >> > Discouing PostgreSql installations, effectively enterprise >> > database setups have given FreeBSD a miss. >> > What could be reason for this ? >> >> An obvious guess would be that the userbase is too small and that makes >> it unprofitable to support the products on FreeBSD. >> >> Which then leads the FreeBSD community to give those products a miss and > use alternatives, or find ways of running them without vendor support, which > further reduces demand. > > I guess from an advocacy perspective, it's hard to get enthused about this > as the alternatives seem more attractive. It's not like hardware drivers > that do constrain usage and development. > > Tony > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:00:37 +0530 (IST) > From: Saifi Khan > Subject: Re: Why no SAP nor DB2 on FreeBSD ? > To: Ivan Voras > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > On Mon, 28 Sep 2009, Ivan Voras wrote: > >> Saifi Khan wrote: >> > Hi all: >> > >> > In continuation of my investigation of Oracle, i also noticed >> > that there is: >> > . no SAP for FreeBSD >> > . no DB2 for FreeBSD >> > . no Sybase ASE for FreeBSD >> > . no Informix for FreeBSD >> > >> > Discouing PostgreSql installations, effectively enterprise >> > database setups have given FreeBSD a miss. >> > What could be reason for this ? >> >> An obvious guess would be that the userbase is too small and that makes >> it unprofitable to support the products on FreeBSD. >> > > Thanks for providing the perspective on the issue. > > Here is a rather straight query, "how do we grow the userbase" ? > > > thanks > Saifi. > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > End of freebsd-advocacy Digest, Vol 295, Issue 1 > ************************************************ > -- Sent from my mobile device From ivoras at freebsd.org Mon Sep 28 13:19:11 2009 From: ivoras at freebsd.org (Ivan Voras) Date: Mon Sep 28 13:19:17 2009 Subject: Why no SAP nor DB2 on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9bbcef730909280549p4ecb4c1at8dca4b31cbbeeab5@mail.gmail.com> 2009/9/28 Saifi Khan : > On Mon, 28 Sep 2009, Ivan Voras wrote: > >> Saifi Khan wrote: >> > Hi all: >> > >> > In continuation of my investigation of Oracle, i also noticed >> > that there is: >> > ?. no SAP for FreeBSD >> > ?. no DB2 for FreeBSD >> > ?. no Sybase ASE for FreeBSD >> > ?. no Informix for FreeBSD >> > >> > Discouing PostgreSql installations, effectively enterprise >> > database setups have given FreeBSD a miss. >> > What could be reason for this ? >> >> An obvious guess would be that the userbase is too small and that makes >> it unprofitable to support the products on FreeBSD. >> > > Thanks for providing the perspective on the issue. > > Here is a rather straight query, "how do we grow the userbase" ? Something like that is very tedious and hard, mostly because it's a chicken-and-the-end problem. Vendors will not develop products (and device drivers) for platforms with few users because it's unprofitable, and users will not use new platforms that have low vendor support. For a very pertinent example, see Linux - it has a vastly bigger user base and it's still largely unsupported by sw & hw vendors. There is no completely right "solution" for this - you can't even create a global survey of users that would possibly use a new platform if it were supported and submit it to vendors because the users are not well enough informed about it. One angle that would be interesting to play with vendors would be the BSD license - enabling them to create proprietary solutions - but apparently vendors are not that scared of the GPL. From andrea at brancatelli.it Mon Sep 28 14:47:04 2009 From: andrea at brancatelli.it (Andrea Brancatelli) Date: Mon Sep 28 14:47:10 2009 Subject: freebsd-advocacy Digest, Vol 295, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: <44843e1b0909280538x217be446q17115d9169c4270c@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090928120004.6EAF710656B7@hub.freebsd.org> <44843e1b0909280538x217be446q17115d9169c4270c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AC0C637.4010800@brancatelli.it> Il 28/09/2009 14.38, Kevin Hatfield ha scritto: > The simplest most effective way to grow the FreeBSD userbase is > indemnification. Large companies that purchase RHEL/SuSE, etc. It's > not because they "don't know what they're doing" as someone mentioned > above. Most of the large Enterprise RHEL/SUSE contracts come down to > indemnification with support being a bonus. > > I strongly agree and also share my personal experience in deploying a massive system (3600 distributed boxes) in which Red Hat was adopted and FreeBSD (even if the project would actually work better under FreeBSD) just becase "if we run out of ideas we can always call red hat italy". This is a huge problem..... From dwilde1 at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 16:37:28 2009 From: dwilde1 at gmail.com (Don Wilde) Date: Mon Sep 28 16:37:34 2009 Subject: leveraging FOSS, especially FreeBSD Message-ID: http://www.engineeringjobfuture.com/articles/leverage/open-source-software -- -- Don Wilde " Engineering the Future " http://www.EngineeringJobFuture.com From jan.husar at skosi.org Mon Sep 28 16:41:59 2009 From: jan.husar at skosi.org (Jan Husar) Date: Mon Sep 28 16:42:06 2009 Subject: FreeBSD 8.0 vs. Ubuntu 9.10 Benchmarks (also fbsd 7.2) Message-ID: <541b7a870909280913t40b1f545o10b051817201f14@mail.gmail.com> check it out http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=freebsd8_ubuntu910&num=1 Jan -- ----------------------------------- | Jan Husar | | doing what matters | http://www.earthcause.org | http://www.skosi.org Open Source mission to Kosovo and eastern balcans http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=125834024563 Open Source mission to save Galapagos Islands http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=43708354604 From jhs at berklix.com Mon Sep 28 17:06:42 2009 From: jhs at berklix.com (Julian H. Stacey) Date: Mon Sep 28 17:06:49 2009 Subject: leveraging FOSS, especially FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Your message "Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:08:24 CDT." Message-ID: <200909281709.n8SH8xsG070888@fire.js.berklix.net> Hi, > From: Don Wilde Don Wilde wrote: > http://www.engineeringjobfuture.com/articles/leverage/open-source-software Article contains "The lawsuit was bitterly contested, but finally resolved. Everything developed before 1970 was declared by a judge to be open forever more, and everything developed after that was AT&T's property." False. I stopped reading at that point, after all, the journalist was probably just winging it, after a few emails to people who read the activity at the time (inc many of us doubtless). The people who know Most about the UCB Lite agreement, won't speak much anyway - they signed non disclosures. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Mail ASCII plain text not HTML & Base64. http://asciiribbon.org Virused Microsoft PCs cause spam. http://berklix.com/free/ From dwilde1 at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 17:16:07 2009 From: dwilde1 at gmail.com (Don Wilde) Date: Mon Sep 28 17:16:14 2009 Subject: leveraging FOSS, especially FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <200909281709.n8SH8xsG070888@fire.js.berklix.net> References: <200909281709.n8SH8xsG070888@fire.js.berklix.net> Message-ID: What is incorrect, Julian? I interviewed both Kirk McK and Berkeley's chief legal beagle several years ago. If I'm incorrect, I'd prefer to get it right. I even bought Kirk's video after a FBSD convention a long time back. He was drinking beer by the pitcher, so I'm sure he was more forthcoming than usual. I also was the one who orchestrated the Darwin press release when working as a stringer with Bob Bruce's WC-CDROM, so I do have a little history here. On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Hi, >> From: ? ? ? ? Don Wilde > > Don Wilde wrote: >> http://www.engineeringjobfuture.com/articles/leverage/open-source-software > > Article contains > ? ? ? ?"The lawsuit was bitterly contested, but finally resolved. > ? ? ? ?Everything developed before 1970 was declared by a judge > ? ? ? ?to be open forever more, and everything developed after > ? ? ? ?that was AT&T's property." > > False. I stopped reading at that point, after all, the journalist > was probably just winging it, after a few emails to people who read > the activity at the time (inc many of us doubtless). > > The people who know Most about the UCB Lite agreement, won't speak much > anyway - they signed non disclosures. > > Cheers, > Julian > -- > Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com > ?Mail ASCII plain text not HTML & Base64. ? ? ?http://asciiribbon.org > ?Virused Microsoft PCs cause spam. ? ? ? ? ? ? http://berklix.com/free/ > -- -- Don Wilde " Engineering the Future " http://www.EngineeringJobFuture.com From jhs at berklix.com Mon Sep 28 17:49:50 2009 From: jhs at berklix.com (Julian H. Stacey) Date: Mon Sep 28 17:49:56 2009 Subject: leveraging FOSS, especially FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Your message "Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:16:05 CDT." Message-ID: <200909281752.n8SHpmdo071531@fire.js.berklix.net> Don Wilde wrote: > What is incorrect, Julian? .. etc. In 1977 I started learning Unix V6 as a Unix newbie. There were no UCB bits I heard of till csh & job control & vi floated in to my Uni. a few years on, maybe 1980 +/- a year or 2, I'd guess about 82. Can't remember when I heard of first complete BSD releases for PDP/VAX but after the individual bits. man 3 ctime "The functions ctime(), gmtime() and localtime() all take as an argument a time value representing the time in seconds since the Epoch (00:00:00 UTC, January 1, 1970; see time(3))." 1970 in context quoted below ? No. > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > >> From:         Don Wilde > > Don Wilde wrote: > >> http://www.engineeringjobfuture.com/articles/leverage/open-source-software > > Article contains > >        "The lawsuit was bitterly contested, but finally resolved. > >        Everything developed before 1970 was declared by a judge > >        to be open forever more, and everything developed after > >        that was AT&T's property." > > > > False. I stopped reading at that point, after all, the journalist > > was probably just winging it, after a few emails to people who read > > the activity at the time (inc many of us doubtless). > > > > The people who know Most about the UCB Lite agreement, won't speak much > > anyway - they signed non disclosures. > > -- > -- Don Wilde > " Engineering the Future " > http://www.EngineeringJobFuture.com Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Mail ASCII plain text not HTML & Base64. http://asciiribbon.org Virused Microsoft PCs cause spam. http://berklix.com/free/ From dwilde1 at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 18:02:04 2009 From: dwilde1 at gmail.com (Don Wilde) Date: Mon Sep 28 18:02:17 2009 Subject: leveraging FOSS, especially FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <200909281752.n8SHpmdo071531@fire.js.berklix.net> References: <200909281752.n8SHpmdo071531@fire.js.berklix.net> Message-ID: Thank you, Julian - Me bits be scrambled, methinks. Apologies all, correcting it I am now., For the record, the agreement was made in 1994. Here is the complete text. http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20041126130302760 -- :D On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Don Wilde wrote: >> What is incorrect, Julian? > .. etc. > > In 1977 I started learning Unix V6 as a Unix newbie. ?There were > no UCB bits I heard of till csh & job control & vi floated in to > my Uni. a few years on, maybe 1980 +/- a year or 2, I'd guess about > 82. ?Can't remember when I heard of first complete BSD releases for > PDP/VAX but after the individual bits. > > man 3 ctime > ? ? ? ?"The functions ctime(), gmtime() and localtime() all take > ? ? ? ?as an argument a time value representing the time in seconds > ? ? ? ?since the Epoch (00:00:00 UTC, January 1, 1970; see time(3))." > > 1970 in context quoted below ? No. > >> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Julian H. Stacey wrote: >> >> From: ? ? ? ? Don Wilde >> > Don Wilde wrote: >> >> http://www.engineeringjobfuture.com/articles/leverage/open-source-software >> > Article contains >> > ? ? ? ?"The lawsuit was bitterly contested, but finally resolved. >> > ? ? ? ?Everything developed before 1970 was declared by a judge >> > ? ? ? ?to be open forever more, and everything developed after >> > ? ? ? ?that was AT&T's property." >> > >> > False. I stopped reading at that point, after all, the journalist >> > was probably just winging it, after a few emails to people who read >> > the activity at the time (inc many of us doubtless). >> > >> > The people who know Most about the UCB Lite agreement, won't speak much >> > anyway - they signed non disclosures. >> >> -- >> -- Don Wilde >> ? ?" Engineering the Future " >> http://www.EngineeringJobFuture.com > > Cheers, > Julian > -- > Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com > ?Mail ASCII plain text not HTML & Base64. ? ? ?http://asciiribbon.org > ?Virused Microsoft PCs cause spam. ? ? ? ? ? ? http://berklix.com/free/ > -- -- Don Wilde " Engineering the Future " http://www.EngineeringJobFuture.com From des at des.no Mon Sep 28 18:11:40 2009 From: des at des.no (=?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) Date: Mon Sep 28 18:11:47 2009 Subject: leveraging FOSS, especially FreeBSD In-Reply-To: (Don Wilde's message of "Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:16:05 -0500") References: <200909281709.n8SH8xsG070888@fire.js.berklix.net> Message-ID: <861vlr3pno.fsf@ds4.des.no> Don Wilde writes: > What is incorrect, Julian? Pretty much everything about the lawsuit. http://oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/kirkmck.html http://www.groklaw.net/pdf/USLsettlement.pdf I found the phrase "everything developed before 1970" particularly amusing, as it translates to approximately zero, plus or minus zero. Oh, and pretty much everything else as well. The practice of sharing source code without compensation (and the term "copyleft") can be traced to a hobbyist magazine that later developed into Dr Dobb's, and predates 3BSD (1BSD and 2BSD were only add-ons, not OS distributions) by about five years. The first explicit discussion of free software as such was in an article published in the July 1976 issue of SIGPLAN in reaction to Bill Gate's (in)famous "open letter". The first organized F/OSS movement was, like it or not, the GNU Project started by Richard Stallman in 1983. At that time, BSD was distributed only to institutions that already held an AT&T source code license. The network stack was "open sourced" in the late eighties, the rest of the system in the early-to-mid nineties. > He was drinking beer by the pitcher, so I'm sure he was more > forthcoming than usual. I neither know nor care whether that statement is true, but it's not a particularly nice thing to say about anyone. DES -- Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav - des@des.no From dwilde1 at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 18:29:24 2009 From: dwilde1 at gmail.com (Don Wilde) Date: Mon Sep 28 18:29:31 2009 Subject: leveraging FOSS, especially FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <861vlr3pno.fsf@ds4.des.no> References: <200909281709.n8SH8xsG070888@fire.js.berklix.net> <861vlr3pno.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: Dag-Erling, I remember you quite well as a core developer, so I don't doubt that your knowledge of history is better than mine. Thank you both for the corrections. AFA pitchers of beer, it was meant as a friendly dig on an insider's list and not meant as disrespect for Kirk's achievements, which have far more to do with all of us being here today than I do. :D 2009/9/28 Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav : > Don Wilde writes: >> What is incorrect, Julian? > > Pretty much everything about the lawsuit. > > http://oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/kirkmck.html > http://www.groklaw.net/pdf/USLsettlement.pdf > > I found the phrase "everything developed before 1970" particularly > amusing, as it translates to approximately zero, plus or minus zero. > > Oh, and pretty much everything else as well. > > The practice of sharing source code without compensation (and the term > "copyleft") can be traced to a hobbyist magazine that later developed > into Dr Dobb's, and predates 3BSD (1BSD and 2BSD were only add-ons, not > OS distributions) by about five years. ?The first explicit discussion of > free software as such was in an article published in the July 1976 issue > of SIGPLAN in reaction to Bill Gate's (in)famous "open letter". ?The > first organized F/OSS movement was, like it or not, the GNU Project > started by Richard Stallman in 1983. ?At that time, BSD was distributed > only to institutions that already held an AT&T source code license. ?The > network stack was "open sourced" in the late eighties, the rest of the > system in the early-to-mid nineties. > >> He was drinking beer by the pitcher, so I'm sure he was more >> forthcoming than usual. > > I neither know nor care whether that statement is true, but it's not a > particularly nice thing to say about anyone. > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav - des@des.no > -- -- Don Wilde " Engineering the Future " http://www.EngineeringJobFuture.com From des at des.no Mon Sep 28 19:00:32 2009 From: des at des.no (=?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) Date: Mon Sep 28 19:00:39 2009 Subject: leveraging FOSS, especially FreeBSD In-Reply-To: (Don Wilde's message of "Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:29:21 -0500") References: <200909281709.n8SH8xsG070888@fire.js.berklix.net> <861vlr3pno.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: <86ske63ne8.fsf@ds4.des.no> Don Wilde writes: > Dag-Erling, I remember you quite well as a core developer, so I don't > doubt that your knowledge of history is better than mine. Never been on core. My knowledge of this matter comes from researching it (thoroughly) for the history section of a presentation on open source licensing. DES -- Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav - des@des.no From cmdlnkid at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 19:27:30 2009 From: cmdlnkid at gmail.com (CmdLnKid) Date: Mon Sep 28 19:27:37 2009 Subject: freebsd-advocacy Digest, Vol 295, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: <4AC0C637.4010800@brancatelli.it> References: <20090928120004.6EAF710656B7@hub.freebsd.org> <44843e1b0909280538x217be446q17115d9169c4270c@mail.gmail.com> <4AC0C637.4010800@brancatelli.it> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:20 -0000, andrea wrote: > Il 28/09/2009 14.38, Kevin Hatfield ha scritto: >> The simplest most effective way to grow the FreeBSD userbase is >> indemnification. Large companies that purchase RHEL/SuSE, etc. It's >> not because they "don't know what they're doing" as someone mentioned >> above. Most of the large Enterprise RHEL/SUSE contracts come down to >> indemnification with support being a bonus. >> >> > > I strongly agree and also share my personal experience in deploying a massive > system (3600 distributed boxes) in which Red Hat was adopted and FreeBSD > (even if the project would actually work better under FreeBSD) just becase > "if we run out of ideas we can always call red hat italy". > > This is a huge problem..... > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > So basically... Bottom line is we need a stronger commercial support base than what is already implemented. Building upon that maybe more attention should be posed at getting certified BSD professionals into commercial support infrastructure sites that can influence small changes that impact future growth and funding. Personally I am working on a company that is not even 1 city block away from me and at this time they support all forms of Linux and they are a remote IT support type entity that is handling database technologies and VoIP. I am looking at coming on as a BSD advocate to broaden their range of support. If there is any suggestions that I could make as a selling point for a career at a company that does not offer any type of BSD support yet, I would certainly appreciate any feedback and ideas. Best regards "Were Here...." -- - (2^(N-1)) From v.lalrindika at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 06:32:51 2009 From: v.lalrindika at gmail.com (Madika Vuite) Date: Tue Sep 29 06:32:58 2009 Subject: leveraging FOSS, especially FreeBSD In-Reply-To: References: <200909281709.n8SH8xsG070888@fire.js.berklix.net> Message-ID: <4ec07b640909282309lbc1af39m67ac8ac2268b565@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Don Wilde wrote: > What is incorrect, Julian? I interviewed both Kirk McK and Berkeley's > chief legal beagle several years ago. If I'm incorrect, I'd prefer to > get it right. > > I even bought Kirk's video after a FBSD convention a long time back. > He was drinking beer by the pitcher, so I'm sure he was more > forthcoming than usual. > > I also was the one who orchestrated the Darwin press release when > working as a stringer with Bob Bruce's WC-CDROM, so I do have a little > history here. > > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Julian H. Stacey > wrote: > > Hi, > >> From: Don Wilde > > > > Don Wilde wrote: > >> > http://www.engineeringjobfuture.com/articles/leverage/open-source-software > > > > Article contains > > "The lawsuit was bitterly contested, but finally resolved. > > Everything developed before 1970 was declared by a judge > > to be open forever more, and everything developed after > > that was AT&T's property." > > > > False. I stopped reading at that point, after all, the journalist > > was probably just winging it, after a few emails to people who read > > the activity at the time (inc many of us doubtless). > > > > The people who know Most about the UCB Lite agreement, won't speak much > > anyway - they signed non disclosures. > > > > Cheers, > > Julian > > -- > > Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich > http://berklix.com > > Mail ASCII plain text not HTML & Base64. http://asciiribbon.org > > Virused Microsoft PCs cause spam. http://berklix.com/free/ > > > > > > -- > -- Don Wilde > " Engineering the Future " > http://www.EngineeringJobFuture.com > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org > " > From lordofhyphens at gmail.com Wed Sep 30 14:50:29 2009 From: lordofhyphens at gmail.com (LoH) Date: Wed Sep 30 14:50:35 2009 Subject: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ? In-Reply-To: <4AC02164.7040201@thebeastie.org> References: <200909241735.n8OHZMVM099476@fire.js.berklix.net> <4AC02164.7040201@thebeastie.org> Message-ID: <4AC36922.6010608@gmail.com> > The reality is that Oracle is meant to be a very expensive solution > for companies that don't know what to do. This makes Red Hat etc an > ideal contender for this situation as it promises full enterprise > support. > Whether it is the truth or if its even a good solution is completely > irreverent to these 2 tech companies because at the end of the day > they are just trying to make money and please the stock holders. > > Huh? Last I remember reading, Oracle hasn't put a native version together for FreeBSD because running it through the linuxlator works well enough to justify not spending engineering resources on it. From perrin at apotheon.com Wed Sep 30 22:58:24 2009 From: perrin at apotheon.com (Chad Perrin) Date: Wed Sep 30 22:58:30 2009 Subject: leveraging FOSS, especially FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <861vlr3pno.fsf@ds4.des.no> References: <200909281709.n8SH8xsG070888@fire.js.berklix.net> <861vlr3pno.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: <20090930225111.GA6843@guilt.hydra> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 08:11:39PM +0200, Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: > > I found the phrase "everything developed before 1970" particularly > amusing, as it translates to approximately zero, plus or minus zero. Wait . . . that wasn't a typo? -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 196 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-advocacy/attachments/20090930/e796852c/attachment.pgp