Newbie Question About System Update
Karl Denninger
karl at denninger.net
Fri Apr 22 07:22:23 PDT 2005
On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 10:09:09AM -0400, Bill Moran wrote:
> Matthias Buelow <mkb at incubus.de> wrote:
>
> > Bill Moran <wmoran at potentialtech.com> writes:
> >
> > >Fact is, trying to update a running system could result in silent failures.
> > >The system can not replace programs that are in use, so there's always the
> > >chance that something or other won't get updated (cron would be an excellent
> > >example ... do you always shut cron off when you update? How about syslogd?)
> >
> > This is complete nonsense.
>
> Yes, and no.
>
> As was pointed out, the install process does not "cp", so it doesn't have
> to deal with this problem. I was wrong. However, it's still true that
> you can't copy over an executable in use, it's just easy to work around
> it.
>
> > >On a production system, you should have a serial terminal connected so you
> > >can go to single-user mode remotely to do updates. There are fairly
> > >inexpensive serial terminal boxes available from a number of vendors, and
> > >if you have a spare machine available, you can always hook it up as a
> > >serial terminal.
> >
> > I was talking about a colocation situation, where you most likely will
> > never see the machine. Networked console boards are usually available
> > but may not always be cost effective. I would agree that such a board
> > may be a necessity in a high profile production server but if you are a
> > small company, or use a machine privately, the extra cost often
> > outweighs the gain. And a good colo hoster usually also has qualified
> > staff.
>
> Who are you using for colo? I'd like to contact them.
>
> Unless your server is utterly unimportant, the last thing you want to
> have happen is an upgrade where the kernel doesn't boot and you have a
> dead system until someone can hook a console to it.
>
> Most colos I've seen charge you a premium to have someone hook a console
> up for you. I asked one how much it would cost to hook up a serial console
> and give it an IP for one month, and their response was "we don't do that,
> you have to pay our tech $160/hour to sit on the phone with you and enter
> what you want." While this seems to be a worst case scenerio, it doesn't
> seem to be an uncommon attitude.
>
> A lesson to all of you, when you choose a colo, don't just look at the
> cost of having your box sit there - estimate the cost of doing maintenance
> and handling problems, those are hidden costs where many colos will rape
> you.
Colocation that does not include serial console access is IMHO worthless.
The costs associated with having one of their people do anything other than
maintain/replace failed hardware (which is part of their job if you are
renting the hardware from them) is astronomical - both in terms of money and
time wasted.
Neither should be considered accepted - to anyone.
Most colo providers are worthless in this regard. They just "don't get it".
--
--
Karl Denninger (karl at denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do!
http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING!
http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME!
http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind
More information about the freebsd-stable
mailing list